How we lose our places to shoot (pics)

[Coloradokevin]

The other discussion about our loss of shooting areas really got me thinking...


In Colorado we have lost many places to shoot in the past few years.

Dangerous behaviors and trash have shut down an estimated 40+ public ranges/locations in this state in the past 15 years alone. I have personally frequented no less than three places that are now closed to shooting, and know of at least a half-dozen more.

I visited a spot near Denver today that is starting to become more known. Not unlike the other places that have preceeded it, the growing popularity of this place will probably shut it down in the next couple of years (by my guess).



A photo documentary of today follows:


There is a reason we are all there in the first place... Range time:


The range:
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p85/coloradocop/Pikeshoot.jpg


Our setup:
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p85/coloradocop/Pikeshoot1.jpg


My wife shooting:
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p85/coloradocop/Pikeshoot2.jpg


http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p85/coloradocop/Pikeshoot3.jpg




But, the problems are quite evident to anyone who looks. Irresponsible shooters are destroying our National Forest lands:



Here is one of the many piles of trash at this small (and still relatively unknown) location:
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p85/coloradocop/Pikeshoot4.jpg


Another look at the trash:
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p85/coloradocop/Pikeshoot5.jpg


A toilet someone decided to "discard" on our public lands:
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p85/coloradocop/Pikeshoot6.jpg


These are fun to shoot, but take it with you when you are done!:
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p85/coloradocop/Pikeshoot7.jpg


More leftovers from previous forest users:
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p85/coloradocop/Pikeshoot8.jpg



These types of actions are, among other things, a large part of the reason that we have lost so many places to shoot in Colorado (and other parts of the country).



But, there is a solution:


Find trash:
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p85/coloradocop/Pikeshoot9.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p85/coloradocop/Pikeshoot10.jpg


Pick up trash:
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p85/coloradocop/Pikeshoot11.jpg


And, properly dispose of trash:
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p85/coloradocop/Pikeshoot12.jpg




It seems brainlessly obvious, yet some folks in our state apparently just don't get it.

For example, there is a pile of shotgun shells visible in the center of the first photo. These were left by a group who was leaving when we showed up today. They also left their boxes, their brass, their targets, and probably some other stuff that I couldn't directly link to them. On the other hand, another group shot next to us for a while, and properly cleaned up their mess (and targets) before leaving.

We can clearly see that the problem exists, but as a community we have obviously done a poor job of policing ourselves. While the majority of us are responsible folks who clean up our trash, there remains an active element in the shooting "community" who choose to ruin things for all of us. Like a plague of locusts, these losers move from one area to the next (as ranges are closed by the Forest Service, or other managing entities), and the cycle continues.

All in all, my wife and I walked out with approximately 20lbs of trash (in addition to our own). Still, it seems like we barely even made a dent, even at this very small range.


So, my self proclaimed solution from this point forward, to anyone who asks:
1) Please pick up after yourself! (this goes without saying, or should)
2) Please pick up after at least one other person! (someone has to do it, and the FS shuts ranges when they get asked to handle this task).


Together we can make a difference, and hopefully save some of the dwindling number of public shooting venues that are available today!

Thanks for reading, and many thanks to my wife, Julie, for being an unwilling participant in my photo documentary :D

[Sixgun]

[Beer] I do the same every time I'm there. Last friday I cleaned, that toliet was not there and the pile was larger. (filled my truck.)
[Luck][Welcom]

[Driftwood]

Good job guys and great post/mini documentary! Even for those of us who do clean up after ourselves (and others) this is always an important reminder. Yeah, one would think that cleaning up is a no brainer but that just goes to show the general attitude of so many anymore. Slovenly, disrespectful, etc, etc... [Bang]

[Sucka]

Nice post.

Great reminder for everyone.

[VA_GUNZ]

Where is this range?

[Brandon]

Did you make your wife clean up while you snap pictures of her cleaning up? Nicely done! [Beer]


In all seriousness, I try to get anyone i go shooting with to pick up, at minimum, the stuff we brought.

[ssf467]

Stop taking stupid crap to shot also it might be fun but no one ever picks it all up

[Coloradokevin]

Did you make your wife clean up while you snap pictures of her cleaning up? Nicely done! [Beer]

I wish! She certainly wouldn't let me get away with that... But it doesn't stop me from trying :)

[DaveGoBang!]

Bravo on the post and message. Just this weekend I was saddened to see some fools roll up, shoot to their hearts content, and leave all their shotgun casings and boxes behind :( I don't get it.

[abert]

I was wondering if you could tell us where the range is?

[gnihcraes]

Depending on where it is, I can go do some shooting and help with cleanup. Few trips up from everyone and we might get it clean. Depending on distance, I might even bring the truck and trailer to take larger amounts of trash...

Kc.

[m4bangr]

I was wondering if you could tell us where the range is?

+1
I realize most people don't want to give up their special place. But, if it gets a little more traffic and people start picking up more than what they brought in, it will eventually start looking cleaner.
Some people are F'n pigs!

[Asha'man]

I had heard that KC was now closed, but apparently this is not the case (yet, anyway). Planning on going up with my gf and my family - are we gonna be good to go?

[Asha'man]

We were in fact good to go. I think someone has been in and spent a lot of time recently cleaning up the site, as it was much cleaner than the pictures from last month show. There was a group of guys conducting a tactical pistol class, and they had their firing line set up very close to the backstop. They were kinda interfering with our shooting and that of the group who showed up after us (church youth group, nice folks), but we worked out a good compromise and everyone got to shoot. I had trash bags and a shovel and we filled up a trash bag with bits of broken glass, a shot-up textbook from down the gulch, empty ammo boxes (ours and others), etc. As we were leaving, the old fellow from the church group thanked me for cleaning up after ourselves and being a good liaison between all the different groups. It's not that hard to be a responsible shooter; dunno why some folks find it so difficult. :(

[abert]

I guess this is your private range - thanks for sharing.

[unrthdxdream]

Kelsey Creek is the name of the area.. here is a good link that has maps to a couple places.

http://www.mines.edu/Stu_life/organ/shoot/maps.html

[jason303]

I could reply to this thread every time I come back from shooting. This morning I carted out about 20 or so laptop computer hard drives from the North site. I would like to slap the person that started the whole "let's shoot up electronics/computers" thing.

[mahabali]

Nice post.

I always leave with a trash bag full more than I brought.

[jackmode9316]

Its pretty depressing to know that people are such slobs like this. Seriously WTF?

[jason303]

It's the same mindset as some POS pulling up to a stop sign,
opening their car door, dumping out the McDonalds bag full of trash
onto the street, and just pulling away. Probably mommy always
cleaned up after me or I just don't care.

[DOC]

I know where it is and I always leave with more than I came with.

[DOC]

I could reply to this thread every time I come back from shooting. This morning I carted out about 20 or so laptop computer hard drives from the North site. I would like to slap the person that started the whole "let's shoot up electronics/computers" thing.

Bill Gates with windows 9x. I can get an address if you want.[Tooth]

[rabbitstew]

Bill Gates with windows 9x. I can get an address if you want.[Tooth][ROFL3]

[Red_Chili]

We run into the same sort of issues in the 4x4 world. Morons are equal opportunity it seems.

Thanks for picking it up and posting this thread!

Glad I found this forum, BTW.

[gnihcraes]

Just came back from my first trip to the north shooting site above Lyons. Nice place, still needs some cleaning though. picked up a few small trash bags of hulls and other misc. trash people left behind, obviously packed out everything we brought and then some.

I'll return to shoot and clean some more again. Hopefully during one of the saturday gatherings. Kc.

[LeJerk]

It's only 1pm. Why are you back so soon? ;)

[gnihcraes]

went early, checked out the place, shot a few rounds, picked up some trash, returned home. Didn't want to burn up too much ammo, and the wind had picked up, making it a little cooler than I wanted it to be. It was very nice and warm when we got there... but it changed soon after. More of a "check the place out" trip than anything.

I'm am mad though, I forgot my magnet on a stick - was going to clean up some steel casings laying around to make things better, not worse.... next time I guess, I'll take the truck possibly too, can haul more garbage out with it.

Kc.

[LeJerk]

I was there this afternoon. They have the main area (after the left hand turn onto the uphill 4x4 road) closed off to trucks. Then they have the 4x4 trail after that closed to any motor vehicle (think dirt bikes). There wasn't any large trash there, but there was a LOT of shotgun shells all over the place. I don't get it. Shells are the easiest thing to see and clean up. I can see not being able to find all your 9mm or .22 casings, but bright red shells? Come on people!

[Marlin]

Few years back,, I went up and "helped" clean up left hand canyon..

100 yrds long about 4 yrds wide and up past my ankles of nothing but shotgun shells..

We (Me and two others) got them all cleaned up before We left though..

Haven't been back there since....

[gnihcraes]

Yep, I brought back a trashbag full of those hulls, couldn't pick them all up at the time, was getting really cold and I didn't have a "truck" with me. Momma's suv, needed to keep it somewhat clean. We did scrape up the hulls into a pile, for easier pickup... next time I'll be more prepared to pickup more junk.

kc.

[jackmode9316]

I can see not being able to find all your 9mm or .22 casings, but bright red shells? Come on people!
Agreed. Thats why I bring a tarp, so I don't have to worry about where my casings are flying.

[DOC]

If anyone finds .223, 7.62x39 or .308 in brass form those were mine I lost them. Could you kindly return them. Seriously I lost a buck mark magazine there too a while back.

[gnihcraes]

another reason I ment to bring the magnet on a stick and pickup as much steel casings as possible at the main line - makes it easier to find the stuff that has value or is lost.

kc.

[refryguy]

This is the range I go to most of the time, its been cleaned up since those pics were taken, except for shells, plus we picked up a 40 gal trash bag before we left. Its a good range so if you go there please take your trash with you so the forest service doesn't shut it down.

Just down the road from that range was a great spot to camp, great place to hike but it has since been destroyed by careless heartless people. Trashed like you couldn't believe. It would take a crew of 50 and a week just to get it cleaned up. Broke my heart last time I was up there.

[LeJerk]

Just down the road from that range was a great spot to camp, great place to hike but it has since been destroyed by careless heartless people. Trashed like you couldn't believe. It would take a crew of 50 and a week just to get it cleaned up. Broke my heart last time I was up there.

Can we blame this on hippies?

[Marlin]

College students,, Same thing..

[cowboykjohnson]

Only way to encourage safe and responsible firearm ownership is to beat the crap out of the people that abuse it.
I agree completely, went to lefthand this sunday... due to lack of time... it looks worse than ever, and all the morons there were shooting computer stuff and garbage.. and left it, i wanted to beat them all but there were way more of them than there were us.

[RRD3]

I was wondering if you could tell us where the range is?


I don't think you will get that answer on an open forum. The reason a lot of these small, remote shooting lots get closed is due to the number of people and traffic. On top of that add the fact that 95% of them are complete idiots and never pick up after themselves.

[theGinsue]

Another issue I see a lot (particularly before and after Rampart Range) is folks who refuse to obey the "No Shooting" signs. These things are blown to shit.

What a lot of folks don't know is that there are trails throughout that are that hikers and mountain bikers use extensively. I have a co-worker who was using one of these trails and had to grab the ground when he heard the shots of someone disregarding the signs followed by hearing the bullets whizzing around him. The sad thing is that the shooters were less than 1/2 mile from the range.

THIS is how we lose places to shoot and turn so many people against gun owners.

[gravedigger]

I thought left hand canyon had got shut down. Are you still allowed to shoot there? I remember reading an article about how littered with trash and shot up t.v.'s and refrigerators and the sort, thought i remember it saying it had been shut down. Also does anyone have any info on the range from the original post in this thread? Thanks.

[Walker2970]

Ok I know I am new here but this one chaps my hyde in the worst way.
I soot out a Pawnee (and not the range) I allways Police my brass, Targets,
and anything else I can find. Maby as Shooters on Public land we can take some advice from the 4X4 guys. I belong to Rocky Mountain Ford Truck Club, Who has adopted Saxon Mountain. We do Clean up on the Trail and repairs at least twice a year. but more to the point we should take a program that should apply to every one and its free.. http://www.treadlightly.org/page.php/home/Home.html and show we care about the land. But the idea is only good if we as a group Educate and pass on the values to our freinds and family.I have reported people i have seen drinking and shooting out at pawnee After i have talked with them about it. just some food for thought though.

Jake

[7idl]

we encourage keeping the ranges we use clean of stuff, and many people here do it regardless.

we typically leave a place cleaner than we found it.

there are range clean up days that many here participate in.

unfortunately, there are losers in every aspect of what we all do

I hope that those "people" are not members here.

[LariatBob]

Maybe as Shooters on Public land we can take some advice from the 4X4 guys. I belong to Rocky Mountain Ford Truck Club, Who has adopted Saxon Mountain. We do Clean up on the Trail and repairs at least twice a year. but more to the point we should take a program that should apply to every one and its free.. Jake

I think the adoption thing is a great Idea. I will adopt the north area myself. We could post a sign at the entrance- " This shooting range adopted by and cared for by Colorado AR Shooters Club"
[Cheer]
Seriously, with so many of us packing up alot more than we take, think how many pigs are ruining these (becoming) rare areas for us to shoot. I don't want to have my guns strictly for decorations.

[palepainter]

I shot out at Pawnee this weekend. It was a trek. Nice range and friendly staff. But there has to be somewhere closer. I would be willing to help clean up some weekend at a closer place if there is any group effort. Hell, I do not even know where to go. Is the place up above Lyons on the 7 still open for shooting?

[sbgixxer]

Why not have a meet day (preferably not the weekend when it's packed) when a group of us go up and clean the hell outta the place...or places? If someone had a big truck or trailer, I'm sure we could fill the thing full...and then some. I'm off all week and would be happy to meet a few people and do some cleaning and shooting. Any takers?

Shawn

[gnihcraes]

depends on which weekend? 27/28 of this month is out for me... the next is the 4th/5... but could be possible... the 11/12 is gunshow that I probably want to attend early saturday... but could do sunday 12th probably. I'm willing to bring truck and trailer, just pretty busy for a while... too many projects !

kc.

[totallyunimodular]

I was just thinking of trying to get something organized for the North Range site below Allenspark. After some long conversations with the Boulder Ranger District folks (http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/arnf/about/organization/brd/index.shtml) it looks like there is some pretty intense pressure from local land owners to shut that site down, and the extent to which things are open is because the NFS wants to keep it open. So, while its great to get some guys together to clean up trash, I think we can make a much bigger impact by

1) Working with the local NFS rangers to organize a clean up
2) Trying to talk to local landowners before the clean up

I don't think either point would need to be too involved,and basically comes down to making our efforts visible to the people that matter (besides other shooters I mean) and letting people vent, hearing what their concerns are. I have been faced with land use issues before (mountain bikers vs horseback riders, dirt bikes vs everybody) and its amazing what simple face to face conversation does. If angry landowners can associate some friendly faces with the booms and know that a sizeable portion of use are really trying to self-police (in terms of actual trash and the figurative trash that shoots at trash), they'll put a lot less pressure on the NFS I think. Anyway, let's keep this thread going and try and get some critical mass this summer to clean up some sites!

[sbgixxer]

I'm willing to help with whatever I can. I'm willing to do the manual labor of clean-up or the P.R. stuff or being involved in talking with the forest service. I agree that being an organization that people see as helpful (ie, keeping the site clean, being respectful and kind to people in the area and more than anything, being safe and "treading lightly") rather than what is seen all too often (trash, drinking/shooting, unsafe practices) is the most important. I would like to be a part of anything that can make this sport better for us and those around us.

Shawn

[Ranger]

I could reply to this thread every time I come back from shooting. This morning I carted out about 20 or so laptop computer hard drives from the North site. I would like to slap the person that started the whole "let's shoot up electronics/computers" thing.

Probably from the movie "Office Space".

[One Shot]

Yes I agree there is alot of trash there and people should pick up more after they shoot.
Its better to have one spot trashed than having multiple spots all over the forrest like people pulling off the side of a dirt road and dumping a toilet.. its a good thing its all in one spot for the trash to be picked up.

I always bring 2 or 3 of those large yard leaf garbage bags when i go.

[DOC]

I filled up my truck bed with trash when I left. It helped that I had a whole bunch of helpers shooting all my ammo that needed to give some back.
It kinda sucked that it got dark and we were one hand down using flashlights. (not the daytime flashlights)

[jackthewall81]

Where is this range? Cant wait to try out my new DD m4. I will bring trash bags to clean up as well.

[brutal]

While it's nowhere near the problem, sadly even the private ranges have issues with the slovenly. The last few times I was at BLGC, I pulled out several target frames that were all shot to h*ll and just left laying in the lanes. Some seem to also like to shoot armor piercing or steel penetrator rounds at the metal target stands. Even the concrete stands that were placed in some lanes to prevent them from moving to other lanes got shot up. Idiots.

Evidently, there's just too many of these sorts of folks that were never a boy/girl scout, military, or had any sort responsible parental coaching whatsoever because we were taught, and taught our kids, to always haul out more than what you haul in.

[alan0269]

So the family and I decided that today would be a good day to DVR the Broncos game and go shooting, since most people in the state would be watching the game. We went up to the Squaw Pass site, and what we found was pretty disgusting! We had just started cleaning up and picking up some brass that was left by others when Byte Stryke showed up as well. Needless to say he wasn't very happy with the conditions there either. Our families teamed up to clean up a multitude of broken glass bottles, a couple fire extinguishers, a file cabinet, the remnants of a television, along with a lot of other crap that people left behind. We put the file cabinet on top of his Blazer, and filled the back end of it and my Bronco with some of the trash, and we easily could have filled them both up at least two more times.

All of this just confirms that the reason we are losing our public areas to shoot is not necessarily due to the liberals and their anti-gun agenda, but rather by the swine that dwell within our own ranks that can't pull their heads out of their a**es and pick up after themselves!!! Why is it that people clearly have enough room in their vehicle(s) to get this junk up there, but when they are ready to leave they suddenly have no room for it?!?!?

I know this has been said many times before, but unless we decide to police ourselves and clean these areas up every time we use them, we are going to lose them all. While the VOLUNTEER efforts of alxone, Byte, and a few others to try to clean these areas up makes a dent, it is not going to be enough to keep the areas open in the long run.

[alxone]

i have cleaned up a few ranges even down to the last 22 casing (no sh*t) and the very next its trashed again . i was kinda thinking about camping out at squaw for a week or 10 days and being a rang pest about trash . it really burns my butt when i fill up the truck 3-4 days a week and nothing seems to get done . its sad that there are far more litter bugs than responsible shooters

[Danimal]

I have been keeping my eyes open at the ranges that I frequent and about 90% of the crap is coming from young kids and the thug looking types. When I go shooting and I am working up reloads, I am up there all day and I have been keeping track of these idiots.

The mentality is not completly what you would expect. Most of them treat it like a dump because it looks like a dump, and that is all they have ever known. They have no other standard, and being the product of lazy generation X parents the thought does not occur to them. Just telling them that shooting trash and trees is illegal and that there are people watching is often enough to get them to pick their crap up from that day. I have never had any one refuse, and I tell 2 or 3 people every time I am out. If we all confront everyone everytime it will have a much greater effect than just picking up after them. I take as much as I can out with me every time I go, but that will never be enough. We all need to hold people accountable EVERY chance that we get.

[dtbighit]

Well I am as you call a "a lazy gen x parent"which is stupid that even came out of your keyboard,anyway I have children whom are very responsible,and have learned about preservation,they all love the shooting sports and do very well at it,yes its easy to point fingers but if we knew who was trashing our shooting spots I'm sure we would not be discussing it anymore,problem would be solved,so all gen x kids watch out your being watched

[Chaffee2]

We have some of the same problems at the Chaffee County Range also. One of the locals ran into the Sheriff and asked him about the range and some of the destruction happening out here. Our Sheriff said give the office a call and let them know what is going on and he will send out a deputy to hook the slob up.

We can never seem to catch these idiots on our range but if you see them at your ranges try giving the local Sheriff a call. At the very minimum they can give them a ticket for littering maybe even destruction of public property, trespassing and who knows what else.

Until these slimeballs are held accountable nothing is going to change.

[jhl247]

Great Post, it's a shame people don't respect our ranges and national forests