Going through the steps of my first NFA item!

[ipleadda2nd]

After wanting a suppressor (aka silencer) for many years I finally took the plunge. I researched extensively on the process a few years back. I got refreshed and started the process.

This is my first Title II NFA firearm. I chose the individual route. My plan is to take you step-by-step. This thread will probably be 6 months in the making since the ATF is pretty busy.

Product: Silencerco Osprey .45 Suppressor
Purchased From: www.silencershop.com (http://www.silencershop.com)
Local SOT: www.denverbullets.com (http://www.denverbullets.com)

Here is the timeline. I will update it as events happen. The date format is YYYY-MM-DD.

2013-01-03: Purchased suppressor from out-of-state SOT.
2013-01-03: Contacted local SOT to provide their info to seller for transfer.
2013-01-05: Seller received local SOT info and submitted a form 3 to the ATF for transfer.
2013-01-21: Seller received transfer approval from ATF and mailed item to local SOT.
2013-01-24: Item arrived at local SOT.
2013-01-29: Received phone call from local SOT instructing me to go there and get paperwork.
2013-01-29: Got passport style photos taken at Walgreens.
2013-01-30: Went to local SOT and got paperwork.
2013-01-30: Went to Arvada Police Station and got fingerprints taken.
2013-01-31: Hand delivered paperwork to Jefferson County Sheriff for approval.
2013-02-13: Received call from Sheriff saying paperwork is approved. Picked up paperwork, but there's a problem (see below post).
2013-02-20: Mailed paperwork via USPS Priority Mail.
2013-02-24: Delivered per USPS's web site. But, on a Sunday?
2013-02-27: ATF check was cashed.
2013-04-11: Went pending.
2013-12-06: Approved! Hell ya!!!
2013-12-16: SOT called and I picked it up! All done!

[ipleadda2nd]

It only took 16 days for the approval of the form 3! Off to a good start. It took 3 business days for the local SOT to contact me. I knew when it arrived, I just wanted to give them some space. It's a real busy time for everyone. Now I will see how long the Sheriff takes.

[ipleadda2nd]

I purchased out-of-state because that's the only place I could find what I wanted in stock. I had it transferred on a Form 3 into CO and used Denver Bullets as my local SOT. I found them on Google and didn't know anything about them.

Greg and Mike are outstanding guys! Greg walked me through the paperwork. Since I over-analyze everything, I've called about 6 times asking questions. I felt horrible taking their time, during times like this, but they have been real understanding.

[ipleadda2nd]

The first gun I purchased was about 5 years ago. I got a HK USP40 full size. I didn't get the tactical version that included a threaded barrel and raised sights. I should have. At the time I was so nieve I asked myself "Would I ever need a threaded barrel?". I had no idea I could own a suppressor.

(I'm not sure yet why the images don't display full size. If you click on them they will display full size.)

Here she is:

20533

I purchased a HK factory threaded barrel from hkparts.com. It was advertised as a direct dropin. They weren't kidding! I dropped it in and 150 rounds later, no malfunctions. You don't see the o-ring on the new barrel, but I did install it. Here it is:

20535

20531

Here is a pic of someone else's Osprey attached to a HK USP. It's uncanny how the style lines match up.

20537

I chose the Osprey because:

- I found one in stock at a killer price.
- Multi caliber and thread patterns (by interchangeable pistons).
- Manufacture still supports it and makes pistons. I found some companies have abandoned support for their previous models.
- Has a booster for proper cycling of firearm.
- Has a lot of volume (by building downward) without interfering more with the sights or adding length.
- Reduces noise to a safe level without hearing protection.
- Can be disassembled for cleaning. Some cannot be.
- Serial number is on back piece. If there's a baffle strike it can be repaired, not requiring replacement, another $200 tax stamp and a wait.

So I have a .40 handgun and a .45 suppressor. The cost is 2dB of noise. The external dimensions are identical to the .40 model. The plus is a suppressor that can be used for a variety of calibers (.45 ACP, 10mm, .40 S&W, 9mm, etc).

[Cthulhu]

NICE! I've got the same suppressor awaiting ATF approval. If you're thinking of buying more class 3 items, you might think about setting up a trust. You'd avoid having to burn the 14 days to get approval from the local constabulary. The other advantage is that you can pass the items on to the anyone you put on the trust without them having to buy a new stamp. Just a thought.

[ipleadda2nd]

It's a great thought and I'll explain why I chose not to go the trust route, for now. I had a gun trust lawyer all setup. I already agreed to it, then I saw this: http://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eAgendaViewRule?pubId=201210&RIN=1140-AA43

I was worried my paperwork would be kicked back due to the proposed changes. After that is all worked out, I will look at getting some more title 2 items and doing so with a trust.

[Great-Kazoo]

NICE! I've got the same suppressor awaiting ATF approval. If you're thinking of buying more class 3 items, you might think about setting up a trust. You'd avoid having to burn the 14 days to get approval from the local constabulary. The other advantage is that you can pass the items on to the anyone you put on the trust without them having to buy a new stamp. Just a thought.

14 DAYS??? Weld cty is like a drive through. Order at window A drive and pick up at B. Usually same day IF you drop off by 8:30 next business day if later than 9am.

[Cthulhu]

14 DAYS??? Weld cty is like a drive through. Order at window A drive and pick up at B. Usually same day IF you drop off by 8:30 next business day if later than 9am.

DOH! Looks like I read the OPs post wrong (16 days for SOT not Jefferson Co. Sheriff. I need to drink more coffee in the AM...or less beer maybe.

[ipleadda2nd]

I picked up my approved form 4s from Sheriff's Office. He didn't fill in the "Name of Transferee" or "County" in his section on the back side. I pointed it out to the guy at the counter. He compared it to some other approved form 4s and they were filled out the same way. I asked if I could fill in those fields, he said yes. I called my local SOT and he said no! What should I do?

[Great-Kazoo]

That's because [#15] name of transfee is Your name. My FFL's type it in for me or i fill it out. Call the So back and have him write in your cty or try and match the sig;)

[ipleadda2nd]

The transferee and county in #17 was left blank.

[Great-Kazoo]

The transferee and county in #17 was left blank.

That's your name > TRANSFEREE > IPLEADDA2ND Write it in, same as in 15

[ipleadda2nd]

OK, I was thinking the same thing, just fill in the transferee and county. Thanks for the input!

[Great-Kazoo]

OK, I was thinking the same thing, just fill in the transferee and county. Thanks for the input!

before you mail out to ATF make copies of fingerprint card and Form !. This way you have reference once the wait goes past 6-7 months. They ask for serial number of item on form. Plus when you do your next stamp the copies are great cheat sheets. I use my stamps on hand as a double check prior to mailing off.

[islandermyk]

before you mail out to ATF make copies of fingerprint card and Form !. This way you have reference once the wait goes past 6-7 months. They ask for serial number of item on form. Plus when you do your next stamp the copies are great cheat sheets. I use my stamps on hand as a double check prior to mailing off.

All I can say.. I wish there was a "Like" button here, but this would have to do [not-worthy]

[Great-Kazoo]

All I can say.. I wish there was a "Like" button here, but this would have to do [not-worthy]

Click here [Love2]

[O2HeN2]

Make sure your dealer circles "I do" on line 9 on the Form 4 (http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-4.pdf), too.

This allows you to call and get information about your transfer. Otherwise the ATF will only give the dealer information.

Me, I always fill out the forms myself, have the dealer sign them, then I mail them. That way if there's a mistake, I'm the only one to blame.

O2

Ps. Only the government could come up with a form that's all text and check-boxes except for ONE field that needs to be circled.

[ipleadda2nd]

I sent the paperwork on Wednesday. What a fiasco!

I sent it via USPS Priority flat rate envelope. Thinking it was a good idea, I got signature confirmation. As I was driving back to work, I realized it's addressed to a PO box! Is someone going to be present to sign for it? If so, will it get separated from the other transfer requests? Maybe delayed or never to be found again? Instant stress.

I called USPS and happened to get them to hold it. I came back down and they refunded my money and started over again. This time with just normal priority mail (tracking number is now included).

This has been the most stressful thing I have ever done. It's a mix of all the variables and uncertainty along with my personality type (anal retentive). You read to do one thing, then read to do another somewhere else. Over and over. If a screw up didn't cost up to half a years wait, it wouldn't be such a bid deal. I can't believe the ATF doesn't provide detailed (I mean real detailed) instructions on the form 4, 922g, and fingerprint cards. Tell us exactly what you want and no more speculation or contradicting info. This is my first experience with government red tape. It sucks! They suck!

Newbies, don't get discouraged from my rant. It doesn't have to be this stressful. My recommendation is to buy in-state if possible. Get a good local class 3 dealer. Go the trust route! Screw CLEO signatures, fingerprints and photos. I will provide details later about where the uncertainty lies on the form 4's CLEO section and fingerprint cards.

My budy learned from my choices. He just got an AAC Ti-Rant locally and went the trust route. All he needs to do is get his trust notarized and off goes his paperwork! Son of a bitch.

[Great-Kazoo]

The paperwork goes to a clearing house (for lack of a better word) to make sure there is no anthrax, etc inside the envelope (seriously) then off to it's final destination. So sending it over night, pony express, carrier pigeon, makes no difference. it's a hurry up and wait deal.

You did make a copy for you to reference, i hope?

[ipleadda2nd]

Yep. Thanks for the advice.

[SAnd]

You might download the "National Firearms Act Handbook" if you don't already have it. It is a official BATFE publication about just about everything concerning NFA stuff. It has plain language information that refers to the laws and regulations in that are included in the back. Even the plain language needs clarifying at times though.

Link to the Handbook-
http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/nfa-handbook/

Hang in there.

[ipleadda2nd]

You might download the "National Firearms Act Handbook" if you don't already have it. It is a official BATFE publication about just about everything concerning NFA stuff. It has plain language information that refers to the laws and regulations in that are included in the back. Even the plain language needs clarifying at times though.

Link to the Handbook-
http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/nfa-handbook/

Hang in there.

Didn't hear of this before. I'll read it. Thanks!

[ipleadda2nd]

The paperwork goes to a clearing house (for lack of a better word) to make sure there is no anthrax, etc inside the envelope (seriously) then off to it's final destination. So sending it over night, pony express, carrier pigeon, makes no difference. it's a hurry up and wait deal.

You did make a copy for you to reference, i hope?


Interesting. I think I can see that happeing at USPS's web site. Why else would it arrive at their post office, leave, then come back.

Delivered
February 24, 2013, 4:17 pm
ATLANTA, GA 30353

Arrival at Post Office
February 24, 2013, 4:17 pm
ATLANTA, GA 30304

Processed through USPS Sort Facility
February 24, 2013, 11:02 am
ATLANTA, GA 30304

Depart USPS Sort Facility
February 24, 2013
ATLANTA, GA 30304

Processed at USPS Origin Sort Facility
February 23, 2013, 10:18 pm
ATLANTA, GA 30304

Dispatched to Sort Facility
February 20, 2013, 5:11 pm
BROOMFIELD, CO 80020

Acceptance
February 20, 2013, 2:41 pm
BROOMFIELD, CO 80020

[Great-Kazoo]

Interesting. I think I can see that happeing at USPS's web site. Why else would it arrive at their post office, leave, then come back.

Delivered
February 24, 2013, 4:17 pm
ATLANTA, GA 30353

Arrival at Post Office
February 24, 2013, 4:17 pm
ATLANTA, GA 30304

Processed through USPS Sort Facility
February 24, 2013, 11:02 am
ATLANTA, GA 30304

Depart USPS Sort Facility
February 24, 2013
ATLANTA, GA 30304

Processed at USPS Origin Sort Facility
February 23, 2013, 10:18 pm
ATLANTA, GA 30304

Dispatched to Sort Facility
February 20, 2013, 5:11 pm
BROOMFIELD, CO 80020

Acceptance
February 20, 2013, 2:41 pm
BROOMFIELD, CO 80020


Between U & islandermyk it's looking like we need to hold an intervention.
STOP tracking, stop pacing, stop. The more you pace and track, the longer it takes. Allow 6 months 5-7 being the norm. With pending state and federal gun legislation who knows how long it might take future applications approval.

[ipleadda2nd]

Yes, I'm one of those guys that watches water to boil. I have yet to be successful. I always walk away before.

A piece of advice. When you send your paperwork in, make sure you have the funds available for your check. It only took 3 days for them to cash it. I was under the impression it would be weeks or months.

[Great-Kazoo]

Yes, I'm one of those guys that watches water to boil. I have yet to be successful. I always walk away before.

A piece of advice. When you send your paperwork in, make sure you have the funds available for your check. It only took 3 days for them to cash it. I was under the impression it would be weeks or months.


Let's get ya going. Talked with a NFA guy friday and he said turn around time in CO is running .................................................. ......6 months, down a whopping 30 days. However once approval is given they still have 30 days discretion before sending paperwork out.

[ipleadda2nd]

Thanks Jim! I accept the wait. This Title 2 stuff is addicting. My buddy just purchased a suppressor after I got it all figured out. He was talking to his cousin in ND and he will be getting one. Another buddy I was talking to is now looking into getting one. Now my buddy (that purchased the suppressor) and I are in talks about each building an SBR. We're looking into 9mm carbines, still haven't decided the best approach. Once I got a better idea I'll throw it by you. Wow!

[Great-Kazoo]

Thanks Jim! I accept the wait. This Title 2 stuff is addicting. My buddy just purchased a suppressor after I got it all figured out. He was talking to his cousin in ND and he will be getting one. Another buddy I was talking to is now looking into getting one. Now my buddy (that purchased the suppressor) and I are in talks about each building an SBR. We're looking into 9mm carbines, still haven't decided the best approach. Once I got a better idea I'll throw it by you. Wow!

SBR an AR lower then do multi caliber uppers for it vs a dedicated caliber lower.

[O2HeN2]

SBR an AR lower then do multi caliber uppers for it vs a dedicated caliber lower.
By "dedicated caliber lower" I assume you mean one whose mag well is made specifically for a 9mm magazine instead of the normal .223 mag opening?

If so, yes I agree. Get a standard lower.

O2

[Great-Kazoo]

By "dedicated caliber lower" I assume you mean one whose mag well is made specifically for a 9mm magazine instead of the normal .223 mag opening?

If so, yes I agree. Get a standard lower.

O2


Correct standard AR lower. In all seriousness I'd be buying 9mm and 22 lr mags then worry about "different" calibers, later. I just paid out the ass for some 32 rd sten mags. $90 del for 4 NIW, OUTRAGEOUS!

[ipleadda2nd]

I just called the ATF and asked the status of my form 4. She said it went pending on April 11th. Not bad. However, I swear she said it will be about 9 months from the pending date before approval.

That puts me in next January (2014). If that's the case, this will be 11 months in the works! Wow!

If someone sent their paperwork in February or later, when you call, can you ask what the estimated date is? I would like confirmation on this. Thanks.

[coop68]

I sent my forms in on the feb 1 I called last week guy told me my forms went pending march 22 told me expect it dec. this could be a generic time frame they are telling everyone due to the amount of paperwork and lack of examiners to process the stacks of F4's and dealer to dealer F3. All I would say is try and forget about it! Lol

[Jeff350]

...However, I swear she said it will be about 9 months from the pending date before approval.

Wow that is crazy. I think it is taking 4-6 weeks for checks to clear, maybe another month or two before pending, and 9 months after that?! Looking at probably a full year now.

Guess I should get a few more stamps in the pipeline!

[O2HeN2]

Y'all realize that this process is to discourage ownership, don't you?

Seriously.

O2

[ipleadda2nd]

Y'all realize that this process is to discourage ownership, don't you?

Seriously.

O2

I believe this is very likely. I was taught in grade school that my government works for us. What a load of BS. I wonder if those old liberal bags actually believed that crap.

[O2HeN2]

I believe this is very likely.
I think you misunderstood me. I'm telling you -- it was to discourage ownership. Back in the 30s they still realized that it would be unconstitutional to outlaw firearms, so they taxed them. It's wasn't a ban, you could still buy them, there was just a small tax.

About $3,500 in today's dollars per item. In a day and age where a firearm cost about $35, a $200 tax was a small fortune.

The fact that they failed to put an adjustment for inflation was just a sign of the times, and worked out in our favor, luckily.

It was to discourage ownership, period. Since they're unable to raise the price (so far) they have resorted to dragging their feet.

O2

[ipleadda2nd]

I just called the BATFE and they said my form 4 was approved Dec 6th. I called my local SOT and they had not received the paperwork in the mail yet. I'm hoping this week I can pick it up.

After all the uncertainty, stress and 11 total months it's finally paying off. I'll hold off the partying until it's in my hands, but I am as happy as possible right now!

So it took a little under 10 months for the ATF to approve it (Feb 20th to Dec 11th).

[kwando]

Thats great news!! Merry Christmas to you...

I have one that i mailed in May, so i'm hoping for 12 months just in time for summer shooting. My cans on the other had were just mailed in, so that will be 2015.

[O2HeN2]

I just called the BATFE and they said my form 4 was approved Dec 6th. I called my local SOT and they had not received the paperwork in the mail yet. I'm hoping this week I can pick it up.

It can take up to a month after approval for the stamp to arrive. Not often, but it can be.

O2

[ipleadda2nd]

It can take up to a month after approval for the stamp to arrive. Not often, but it can be.

O2

Good to know.

[ipleadda2nd]

I picked it up on Monday. Here it is!

38291

Thanks everyone for your advise. It's a tricky procedure and information from others, who have gone before me, was instrumental to my success.

Next up are raised sights and shooting it!