View Full Version : It has begun . . .
Virtual news blackout on this, aside from a brief blurb on their local news that gives no details at all. The following quote was taken from an alternative news source:
On Sunday January 6th Staff Sgt. Nathan Haddad, a decorated combat veteran, was driving through Jefferson County New York when he was randomly pulled over for a vehicle check. Haddad, who had five 30 round empty magazines in his possession, was arrested by the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Department and charged with five felony counts.
It looks like he was subject to one of the random "stop and search" things the NYSP is infamous for, where they pull over random motorists and subject them to a full vehicle search including the contents of the trunk and luggage.
Official local media release:
http://www.wwnytv.com/news/local/LeRay-Man-Faces-Weapons-Possessions-Charges-185853881.html
Other, unapproved, coverage:
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/01/injured-special-forces-soldier-arrested-in-upstate-ny-for-possession-of-high-capacity-ammunition-magazines/
http://beforeitsnews.com/survival/2013/01/decorated-combat-veteran-arrested-in-new-york-charged-with-5-felonies-for-possession-of-ar-magazines-2458572.html
http://offgridsurvival.com/decoratedcombatveteran-arrested-newyorkfelonies-armagazines/
(http://offgridsurvival.com/decoratedcombatveteran-arrested-newyorkfelonies-armagazines/)
Sharpienads
02-01-2013, 14:29
But if he claims he had them to support his first amendment rights than he should be let off. Right? Or does that only work in DC?
ChunkyMonkey
02-01-2013, 14:33
PLEASE hit this link!
http://www.gofundme.com/1tkukc#description
Kraven251
02-01-2013, 14:33
it saddens me deeply that possession of an empty 30 round magazine is a felony in NY, while possession of crystal meth is a misdemeanor
lowbeyond
02-01-2013, 14:34
seems reasonable. law is the law. cops just doing their job. that is what i am told. what is the the issue ?
HBARleatherneck
02-01-2013, 14:36
seems reasonable. law is the law. cops just doing their job. that is what i am told. what is the the issue ?
that is exactly it, thats why we are doomed.
"it doesnt matter if any law goes against the constitution. we were told to enforce it and we will."
This whole damn issue is going to get Fugly!.............[facepalm]
buffalobo
02-01-2013, 14:45
Another step on the path...
Why are they allowed to search your car without probable cause?
The NY state troopers and JeffCo sheriffs pull people over all the time there for the most minor of stuff. It's where Ft Drum is and they view soldiers as a revenue source. In NY your car is not an extension of your home like in CO, there is no warrant needed to search a car.
it saddens me deeply that possession of an empty 30 round magazine is a felony in NY, while possession of crystal meth is a misdemeanor
Cuomo/Bloomberg/NYC LOGIC at it's finest! It's fucking sickening to me, but makes me appreciate Colorado more. Making MJ legal shows that we actually believe in "let the punishment fit the crime", for now anyway.
seems reasonable. law is the law. cops just doing their job. that is what i am told. what is the the issue ?
I HOPE you're kidding?
tmjohnson
02-01-2013, 14:59
I ask the same questio as Fmedges
How can they search without probably cause?
It is my understanding that if you don't give permission, you can tell the cops to go pound sand
Why are they allowed to search your car without probable cause?
Because they banned 16oz + soft drinks too?
Is it like the DUI checkpoints here which are borderline (or completely) unconstitutional when you aren't doing anything wrong? I didn't know they could do that in NY, even outside a DUI checkpoint, wow! Fuck that state, will never live there.
Funny, I was stationed up there- Jefferson County is the county where most of Ft. Drum is located. To answer your question Fmedges- NY is a police state, they don't care about your 4th Amendment Rights- hell they really don't care about any of your rights, the legal system there is so screwed up that it's trickled down to the LEOs... It's really sad.
Is it like the DUI checkpoints here which are borderline (or completely) unconstitutional when you aren't doing anything wrong? I didn't know they could do that in NY, even outside a DUI checkpoint, wow! Fuck that state, will never live there.
Even so if you pull up to a DUI checkpoint and you haven't been drinking and the cops cannot prove probable cause, then they have no right to search your vehicle unless you let them do so. At school the cops cannot search my backpack just because they want to and my backpack is not an extension of my home. I would say that this is just as worry some as 30 round magazines being a felony.
http://voices.yahoo.com/know-police-search-vehicle-when-68760.html
kidicarus13
02-01-2013, 15:10
I ask the same questio as Fmedges
How can they search without probably cause?
It is my understanding that if you don't give permission, you can tell the cops to go pound sand
If permission to search was not given the mags could have been in plain sight, another exception to a search warrant.
Funny, I was stationed up there- Jefferson County is the county where most of Ft. Drum is located. To answer your question Fmedges- NY is a police state, they don't care about your 4th Amendment Rights- hell they really don't care about any of your rights, the legal system there is so screwed up that it's trickled down to the LEOs... It's really sad.
Check and balances mean shit if the people responsible for the checking let bullshit like this happen.
HBARleatherneck
02-01-2013, 15:13
i dont know why everyone is making such a big deal. Our government, politicians and law enforcement officers only have our best interests in mind. they would never do anything that was inappropriate.
what is the attraction to some 200 something year old piece of paper anyway? it should be a living breathing document that fits the times?
If permission to search was not given the mags could have been in plain sight, another exception to a search warrant.
True, but the fact that these random searches are allowed to go on in the first place is cause for concern.
Check and balances mean shit if the people responsible for the checking let bullshit like this happen.
Well I think folks like Bloomberg and Cuomo prove that the sickness in NY goes all the way to the top... We're edging towards the same fate here- thanks to Hick. [Mad]
Well I think folks like Bloomberg and Cuomo prove that the sickness in NY goes all the way to the top... We're edging towards the same fate here- thanks to Hick. [Mad]
The 4th amendment goes higher than the state level. It's those dickheads in Washington that are dropping the ball.
HBARleatherneck
02-01-2013, 15:25
if you have nothing to hide and are not doing anything wrong, you shouldnt care
if you have nothing to hide and are not doing anything wrong, you shouldnt care
It's for the collective good
The NY state troopers and JeffCo sheriffs pull people over all the time there for the most minor of stuff. It's where Ft Drum is and they view soldiers as a revenue source. In NY your car is not an extension of your home like in CO, there is no warrant needed to search a car.
What's keeping our completely left-leaning CO administration from attacking that here too.... could Dickinpooper issue an order changing that ruling locally, so a "vehicle is not an extension of your home" anymore?
i dont know why everyone is making such a big deal. Our government, politicians and law enforcement officers only have our best interests in mind. they would never do anything that was inappropriate.
what is the attraction to some 200 something year old piece of paper anyway? it should be a living breathing document that fits the times?
I know you're being sarcastic, but what's that saying I'm looking for? "F you and the horse you rode in on!" ;)
What's keeping our completely left-leaning CO administration from attacking that here too.... could Dickinpooper issue an order changing that ruling locally, so a "vehicle is not an extension of your home" anymore?
It wouldn't matter, your car is still your property. Like I said, my school backpack can't be searched for no reason and that has nothing to do with homes.
SuperiorDG
02-01-2013, 16:04
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/guns/2013/feb/1/miller-ny-vet-arrested-30-round-magazines-part-1/
According to Jefferson County Sheriff’s office sources, Mr. Haddad was in the parking lot of a closed business at 7:30 p.m. when an officer asked him what he was doing. The police allege that the Fort Drum civilian employee said that he was meeting someone to sell the AR-15 style rifle magazines. A police source also said that the magazines were stamped with the words “Restricted. For military use only.”
For the possession of the magazines, Mr. Haddad was arrested, booked in county jail and charged with five counts of criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree, according to the arrest report. Mr. Haddad did not have his AR-15 rifle in the car, but it is unclear whether he had another firearm. Police say that he was in possession of a New York State carry permit. He was not charged with any other offenses.
These charges are considered “violent class D violent felony offenses” under New York state law and carry a punishment that ranges widely from conditional discharge to seven years in state prison. (The five charges would be served concurrently.)
Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/guns/2013/feb/1/miller-ny-vet-arrested-30-round-magazines-part-1/#ixzz2Jgh88mGB
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter (http://ec.tynt.com/b/rw?id=ctd-fI3Dar4z1uacwqm_6r&u=washtimes)
lowbeyond
02-01-2013, 16:12
I HOPE you're kidding?
well you see i am told to never blame the cops , blame the politicians or the cops' boss.
and really, dont want to go to jail ? then don't break the law. and the law is just a reflection of the will of society uh-huh.
so what is the issue again ? these cops were just doing their jobs by enforcing the LAW !
Right ?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/guns/2013/feb/1/miller-ny-vet-arrested-30-round-magazines-part-1/
According to Jefferson County Sheriff’s office sources, Mr. Haddad was in the parking lot of a closed business at 7:30 p.m. when an officer asked him what he was doing. The police allege that the Fort Drum civilian employee said that he was meeting someone to sell the AR-15 style rifle magazines. A police source also said that the magazines were stamped with the words “Restricted. For military use only.”
For the possession of the magazines, Mr. Haddad was arrested, booked in county jail and charged with five counts of criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree, according to the arrest report. Mr. Haddad did not have his AR-15 rifle in the car, but it is unclear whether he had another firearm. Police say that he was in possession of a New York State carry permit. He was not charged with any other offenses.
These charges are considered “violent class D violent felony offenses” under New York state law and carry a punishment that ranges widely from conditional discharge to seven years in state prison. (The five charges would be served concurrently.)
Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/guns/2013/feb/1/miller-ny-vet-arrested-30-round-magazines-part-1/#ixzz2Jgh88mGB
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter (http://ec.tynt.com/b/rw?id=ctd-fI3Dar4z1uacwqm_6r&u=washtimes)
Wow..I just dont know what to say. Guess well just have to see how far we can be pushed before it gets violent..
well you see i am told to never blame the cops , blame the politicians or the cops' boss.
and really, dont want to go to jail ? then don't break the law. and the law is just a reflection of the will of society uh-huh.
so what is the issue again ? these cops were just doing their jobs by enforcing the LAW !
Right ?
So if they made it illegal to own 30-round magazines in CO (no grandfather clause) you'd just throw yours away? What if they made "assault weapons" illegal- you'd turn yours in? I mean, if it was the law... [facepalm]
It wouldn't matter, your car is still your property. Like I said, my school backpack can't be searched for no reason and that has nothing to do with homes.
You should learn the definition of Exigent Circumstances...
The police can, and will, search your shit anytime they want for whatever reason they want.. SCOTUS has fucked over the 4th.. it is utterly meaningless, in the legal sense, now.
Don't blame the cops for enforcing unconstitoutional laws either I mean that oath they took to defend such document is just for show right? Maybe you can blame me for it? I mean they are just doing their job right? Gas the Jews? Sure no problem I mean they were just doing their job right?
You should learn the definition of Exigent Circumstances...
The police can, and will, search your shit anytime they want for whatever reason they want.. SCOTUS has fucked over the 4th.. it is utterly meaningless, in the legal sense, now.
Explain
Jesus-With-A-.45
02-01-2013, 16:32
Don't blame the cops for enforcing unconstitoutional laws either I mean that oath they took to defend such document is just for show right? Maybe you can blame me for it? I mean they are just doing their job right? Gas the Jews? Sure no problem I mean they were just doing their job right?
I'm sorry to say this, but I haven't trusted the police nor assumed they had any interest in protecting my individual rights in a long long time.
So if they made it illegal to own 30-round magazines in CO (no grandfather clause) you'd just throw yours away? What if they made "assault weapons" illegal- you'd turn yours in? I mean, if it was the law... [facepalm]
That's I'm going to say I did if that scenario ever happens.
You know this same argument keeps coming up, "cops are just enforcing the law". What a bunch of shit, what makes them any different than any of us when it comes to how we feel about company policy. If I hate my Job, don't agree with what’s going on, and can't help change it, I'm gone. If you’re going to stay in any organization that you don't agree with, then you deserve what you get. If we all continue to be sheep and do the status quo, where all fucked, and unfortunately for police in this political environment it could be deadly. Agree or disagree, it is what it is.
Don't blame the cops for enforcing unconstitoutional laws either I mean that oath they took to defend such document is just for show right? Maybe you can blame me for it? I mean they are just doing their job right? Gas the Jews? Sure no problem I mean they were just doing their job right?
Yep! I believe at Nuremberg they decided that the "I was just following orders" excuse for doing something wrong/illegal doesn't work... Lotta Nazis got some pretty hefty sentences (including death) just because they were "doing their job..." Just saying... You're either doing the right thing, or you're not.
lowbeyond
02-01-2013, 16:40
Don't blame the cops for enforcing unconstitoutional laws either I mean that oath they took to defend such document is just for show right? Maybe you can blame me for it? I mean they are just doing their job right? Gas the Jews? Sure no problem I mean they were just doing their job right?
yea well they were just following the LAW right ? so what's the biggie ? don't be a hater, they gotta feed their family too ya know
lowbeyond
02-01-2013, 16:42
So if they made it illegal to own 30-round magazines in CO (no grandfather clause) you'd just throw yours away? What if they made "assault weapons" illegal- you'd turn yours in? I mean, if it was the law... [facepalm]
well if you wish to be/remain a Law Abiding Citizen, then you would have to, right ? I mean it's the law. And the is sacrosanct, right ? You cant just pick and choose which ones you will obey, right ?
well if you wish to be/remain a Law Abiding Citizen, then you would have to, right ? I mean it's the law. And the is sacrosanct, right ? You cant just pick and choose which ones you will obey, right ?
So you support following laws, even if they infringe upon the Constitution? You have no obligation to follow any law that clearly violates the constitution. Now I'm not saying you start fighting cops- but fight it in court.
I need to go watch Law Abiding Citizen...
I'm sorry to say this, but I haven't trusted the police nor assumed they had any interest in protecting my individual rights in a long long time.
Why would someone believe that the police DO have any interest in protecting an individuals rights? Their entire purpose is to capture those who break the law, and strip their rights away, not protect those who don't break the law.
Why would someone believe that the police DO have any interest in protecting an individuals rights? Their entire purpose is to capture those who break the law, and strip their rights away, not protect those who don't break the law.
Well, and call me naive or what have you- but when I get on JCSO I plan on respecting the rights of individuals within the confines of the law, and I don't see LE's purpose (theoretically) as being "capture those who break the law", what, ideally, LE should be doing is protect and serve their respective community, help prevent crime, and solve the problems they exist to solve- which does include arrests and what not. That's just the way I see it... doesn't mean it happens, but that's how things should be.
Explain
I'll leave it to you to do some research.. But start with United States v. Rengifo where the courts said that “[e]xigent circumstances occur when a reasonable officer could believe that to delay acting to obtain a warrant would, in all likelihood, permanently frustrate an important police objective, such as to prevent the destruction of evidence relating to criminal activity or to secure an arrest before a suspect can commit further serious harm"
More fun: Kentucky v. King, SCOTUS has said that police are allowed to create exigent circumstances with impunity and that the results of such searches are admissible. Thats right - the police themselves can cause the problem that needs to be resolved immediately to preserve evidence or secure an arrest...
Here is an over the top example (that comes straight out of the real world):
If the cops want to see whats in your backpack, they could for example, light it on fire. They would have just created an exigent circumstance in which they can search your backpack 'to preserve evidence'. Its totally legal.
SuperiorDG
02-01-2013, 17:06
I'll leave it to you to do some research.. But start with United States v. Rengifo where the courts said that “[e]xigent circumstances occur when a reasonable officer could believe that to delay acting to obtain a warrant would, in all likelihood, permanently frustrate an important police objective, such as to prevent the destruction of evidence relating to criminal activity or to secure an arrest before a suspect can commit further serious harm"
More fun: Kentucky v. King, SCOTUS has said that police are allowed to create exigent circumstances with impunity and that the results of such searches are admissible. Thats right - the police themselves can cause the problem that needs to be resolved immediately to preserve evidence or secure an arrest...
Here is an over the top example (that comes straight out of the real world):
If the cops want to see whats in your backpack, they could for example, light it on fire. They would have just created an exigent circumstance in which they can search your backpack 'to preserve evidence'. Its totally legal.
Is lighting someone's backpack on fire arson?
Is lighting someone's backpack on fire arson?
Heheh.. I see where your going with this. ;)
But no.. Its not an occupied building or structure.
Is lighting someone's backpack on fire arson?
Yeah- or assault. I don't think any cop would do that- unless they really wanted to see what life was like on the other side of the bars.
lowbeyond
02-01-2013, 17:10
So you support following laws, even if they infringe upon the Constitution? You have no obligation to follow any law that clearly violates the constitution. Now I'm not saying you start fighting cops- but fight it in court.
It can take years and years for cases to wind through the courts, let alone reach the SCOTUS. In the mean time you just gotta comply - or face the penalties -right? So even if a case is currently winding its way through the court, well you comply or face fines jail time whatever, all according to the LAW, a law written by the "legitimate" government elected by the people through our system and enforced by the cops.
And of course there is zero blame on the cops for enforcing a law, zero blame by the clerk who processes you, zero blame for the prosecutor and the judges and everyone associated with a law that clearly violates the constitution. I mean they were just doing their job, just following orders. They had no choice. Right ?
Just remember at this point you no longer are a law abiding person, nope you are a criminal under the Law.
And of course this assumes that you have the $ to fight it in court. If you don't? Well i guess you are shit out of luck, as in that case the courts are effectively closed to you in our system of Justice
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.