View Full Version : WTF is going on with gas?
December 31, 2012 crude was trading just shy of $92/barrel. Today it is at $98. We are in the midst of winter. Demand is low and no major disasters have befallen refineries, so what's with a 35c hike in less than a week?
Hang on, they are expecting to hit $150....
Hang on, they are expecting to hit $150....
source?
StreetDoctor
02-01-2013, 15:12
Went from $2.49 at Walmart to 3.03 as of today! It's because I just bought a V8 truck lol
Rucker61
02-01-2013, 15:15
Supply, demand, etc.
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/gasoline-highest-price-ever-time-year-1B8210243
source?
One of many sources....:(
BadNews (http://www.foxbusiness.com/news/2013/01/17/goldman-sachs-strategist-oil-price-could-reach-150bbl-in-summer)
Went from $2.49 at Walmart to 3.03 as of today! It's because I just bought a V8 truck lol
Dammit, it's all your fault! You buy that sweet new Ram and it just all goes down hill... thanks, jerk. [ROFL1]
U.S. oil prices could sink to $50
By Steve Hargreaves (steve.hargreaves@turner.com) @CNNMoney (https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=cnnmoney) December 11, 2012: 9:57 PM ET
20 (http://www.linkedin.com/shareArticle?mini=true&source=CNNMoney&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmoney.cnn.com%2F2012%2F12%2F11%2F news%2Feconomy%2Foil-prices%2Findex.html%3Fsource%3Dlinkedin&title=U.S.%20oil%20prices%20could%20sink%20to%20%2 450)
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http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/dam/assets/121211104034-oil-prices-monster.jpg
NEW YORK (CNNMoney)
U.S. oil prices could sink to $50 a barrel at some point over the next two years, according to analysts at Bank of America Merrill Lynch.
But don't expect a corresponding drop in gas prices (http://money.cnn.com/data/commodities/?iid=C_MT_Commodities).
http://money.cnn.com/2012/12/11/news/economy/oil-prices/index.html
Oil producer Hess announced earlier this week that it is shutting its refinery in Port Reading, N.J., by the end of February. That refinery accounts for about 7.5 percent of oil production on the East Coast at about 70,000 barrels per day. Philadelphia Energy Solutions is also set to begin planned maintenance at its 335,000 barrel per day Philadelphia refinery.
Add in political instability (see Ankara and Syria) and you have the recipe for higher prices.
Add in political instability (see Ankara and Syria) and you have the recipe for higher prices.
so if 70,000 bpd = 7.5%, then 405,000 bpd = ~35% (of east coast production).... Depending on how long the Philly refinery is offline for their planned maintenance, it is really going to suck in that part of the country, and necessarily increase prices here too (although, hopefully not nearly as much). Sorry StreetDoctor.
Market fluctuations. In a commodities market the actual consumer demand matters less than investor demand. When the price of crude drops people hedge back into it, the demand for oil futures drives up the market value. Then when prices start hitting high enough people sell off and the price drops as investor demand wanes. There will still be seasonal cycles like summer and winter for demand, like a harsh winter in the northeast drives up demand for heating oil which can affect oil prices, but these days the demand at the investor level impacts consumer prices more.
Kraven251
02-01-2013, 16:34
so if 70,000 bpd = 7.5%, then 405,000 bpd = ~35% (of east coast production).... Depending on how long the Philly refinery is offline for their planned maintenance, it is really going to suck in that part of the country, and necessarily increase prices here too (although, hopefully not nearly as much). Sorry StreetDoctor.
It's Philly, it always sucks in that part of the country.
Great-Kazoo
02-01-2013, 16:43
You're right & wrong. The election is over so Up go the prices. Plus we're coming in to spring pricing earlier than last year. Between CA not submitting their 3rd qtr unemployment rates (over 8.5%) with High prices at the pump would have put O behind the 8 ball with soccer moms and "undecided"[ROFL3] voters. Imaging $3+ per gallon leading up to nov with almost 9% CA unemployed He may have had a tougher fight in some states.
TIN FOIL TIME:
Anything to cover the emperor's ass the media, and other groups are doing as much as they can. We ain't seen nothing yet. Chicago will be ground Zero for Gun Control. Us using chi-town to show it doesn't work. Them saying OUTSIDE areas are the problem, Not gun control. IF, IF, IF everyone else didn't have guns Chicago would be safer and murder free, Ok what ever.
Richard K
02-01-2013, 17:06
I can almost undertstand fluctuating gas prices but, what I don't understand is the pricing of diesel. When I bought my diesel PU it was 50 or so cents below regular. Now it's 30 to 35 cents more than regular. Talk about an increase, what's up with that?
iquack08
02-01-2013, 17:36
I don't know why people are complaining about gas prices. It only costs me $10 to fill up my tank. Oh wait - I ride a motorcycle [ROFL2]
I remember the time I filled up my Jeep all the way :( - now I only fill it up half-way b/c I only drive it if there's snow.
I don't know why people are complaining about gas prices. It only costs me $10 to fill up my tank. Oh wait - I ride a motorcycle
My bike has a 9 gallon tank.... GS1200A
Rucker61
02-01-2013, 17:59
Doesn't matter how much oil we get if the refining process is still constrained. It also doesn't help that the US is a net exporter of gasoline.
The value of the bitcoins I bought about six months ago have nearly doubled in maybe the past three months. Perhaps the value of the dollar is slipping.
sabot_round
02-01-2013, 19:10
I can almost undertstand fluctuating gas prices but, what I don't understand is the pricing of diesel. When I bought my diesel PU it was 50 or so cents below regular. Now it's 30 to 35 cents more than regular. Talk about an increase, what's up with that?
Our illustrious government saw that more people were buying diesels to save some money and they decided to raise the taxes on diesel fuel. As usual, they did not think about the "unintended consequences" and failed to realize that the country is moved by truckers, hence the price increase on commodities too.
Circuits
02-01-2013, 19:57
It's actually the tightening sulfur requirements driving diesel prices up. Ultra-low sulfur diesel takes even more time and money to refine from crude than does gasoline.
As long as the Feds continue to monetize the U.S. debt with the printing machines which decreases the value of the dollar relative to other currencies, expect the price of oil to climb.
Citizen_Soldier
02-01-2013, 21:16
I don't know why people are complaining about gas prices. It only costs me $10 to fill up my tank. Oh wait - I ride a motorcycle
Ok so that just means you have a small tank. Fuel capacity has nothing to do with gas prices or fuel economy of a vehicle. I struggle to understand why people brag about having a cheap car to fill up. If I had a car with a 5 gallon gas tank it would be cheap to fill too, but I wouldn't be able to go far on that tank, and who's to say the car doesn't get 15mpg?
theGinsue
02-01-2013, 22:06
Wanna see our imported petroleum prices drop? Start charging OPEC the same price for a bushel of wheat/produce that they charge us for a barrel of petroleum. We can pull petroleum from our soil, can they grow wheat in theirs? I think not. If they won't buy it, let them eat their oil.
iquack08
02-01-2013, 22:06
Ok so that just means you have a small tank. Fuel capacity has nothing to do with gas prices or fuel economy of a vehicle. I struggle to understand why people brag about having a cheap car to fill up. If I had a car with a 5 gallon gas tank it would be cheap to fill too, but I wouldn't be able to go far on that tank, and who's to say the car doesn't get 15mpg?
With a motorcycle, the fuel economy is usually great to excellent too depending on what kind of motorcycle. True, I can't go very far, but I also don't have to leave my seat to fill up. :)
I don't know much on what the prices on oil barrels are right now other than what was previously stated but the Old Lady works for Diamond Shamrock and she told me Valero owns their own refineries and that when their gas was $2.75 a gallon they were paying $2.95 and not making any profit so when other stations went up to $2.99 they stayed at $2.75 because they got a $0.25 discount from their refinery. Idk I give her a lot of shit for working for those Gas Holes but that's all the info I get here and there. She also told me that Valero sells their gas to 7 eleven first and all the Mom & Pop Stations and then they take the left over which makes sense why 7 Eleven is usually a few cents higher than other places. Not much relevence there I guess but I just wanted to share a little. [Bang]
This much I can say. I work in the oil and gas industry...and holy shit. we're so slammin busy we dont even have time to dry out our socks before we're on another well fracin. ND is BOOMING right now with crude, they're sucking it out with in a week of us leaving the pad. the permian basin is doing quite well as well. all I can really say is that we're pullin it out of the ground as fast as we can, so the hike is not on our end, the hike is somewhere between the refineries and the customer.
UncleDave
02-02-2013, 07:49
I am in the oil business too, so is my wife. The problem is refining capacity. The US has not built a refinery in over 30 years die to EPA restrictions. That means that most refineries run at around 75% capacity most of the time.That is what kills the price of gasoline and other refined petroleum products. Couple that with the staggering taxes on feel an voila, high pump prices. BTW our fearless leader has said he want fuel prices like Europe to get people out of their cars, so expect more increases.
Great-Kazoo
02-02-2013, 08:49
I am in the oil business too, so is my wife. The problem is refining capacity. The US has not built a refinery in over 30 years die to EPA restrictions. That means that most refineries run at around 75% capacity most of the time.That is what kills the price of gasoline and other refined petroleum products. Couple that with the staggering taxes on feel an voila, high pump prices. BTW our fearless leader has said he want fuel prices like Europe to get people out of their cars, so expect more increases.
Transportation less and gun free. BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA BAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
I'm going out for a graze see ya later.
missionxo
02-02-2013, 08:56
I am in the oil business too, so is my wife. The problem is refining capacity. The US has not built a refinery in over 30 years die to EPA restrictions. That means that most refineries run at around 75% capacity most of the time.That is what kills the price of gasoline and other refined petroleum products. Couple that with the staggering taxes on feel an voila, high pump prices. BTW our fearless leader has said he want fuel prices like Europe to get people out of their cars, so expect more increases.
I guess when all the rules don't apply to you it is easy to "know" whats best for the rest of us.
StreetDoctor
02-02-2013, 09:27
With a motorcycle, the fuel economy is usually great to excellent too depending on what kind of motorcycle. True, I can't go very far, but I also don't have to leave my seat to fill up. :)
Horrible argument bro (I ride an FJR1300 too). You also have to deal with cold, asshole drivers, wear a bunch of extra gear, no radio, etc. LOL. I'm starting a new job about 35 miles away at the end of the month, and I'll also be riding as much as I can.
Rucker61
02-02-2013, 09:29
I am in the oil business too, so is my wife. The problem is refining capacity. The US has not built a refinery in over 30 years die to EPA restrictions. That means that most refineries run at around 75% capacity most of the time.That is what kills the price of gasoline and other refined petroleum products. Couple that with the staggering taxes on feel an voila, high pump prices. BTW our fearless leader has said he want fuel prices like Europe to get people out of their cars, so expect more increases.
To be accurate, Obama didn't say that, Steven Chu did, before he was selected for head of DOE. It's been widely reported that he's recanted from that position last March. In any case, domestic oil and natural gas production are at their highest levels in almost two decades.
KestrelBike
02-02-2013, 09:38
I am in the oil business too, so is my wife. The problem is refining capacity. The US has not built a refinery in over 30 years die to EPA restrictions. That means that most refineries run at around 75% capacity most of the time.That is what kills the price of gasoline and other refined petroleum products. Couple that with the staggering taxes on feel an voila, high pump prices. BTW our fearless leader has said he want fuel prices like Europe to get people out of their cars, so expect more increases.
Maybe if his beloved auto industry didn't do their best to undermine public transportation development at every turn, There would be worthy public trans. to take.
BushMasterBoy
02-02-2013, 09:49
Congress let the ethanol tax credit for manufacturers expire last year. Maybe they are expecting us to make our own moonshine from now on...
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/02/business/energy-environment/after-three-decades-federal-tax-credit-for-ethanol-expires.html?_r=0
Bailey Guns
02-02-2013, 09:58
To be accurate, Obama didn't say that, Steven Chu did, before he was selected for head of DOE. It's been widely reported that he's recanted from that position last March. In any case, domestic oil and natural gas production are at their highest levels in almost two decades.
To be accurate, if Obama appointed the man who said that, Obama said it by default. Oh...Chu recanted. That's nice. I believe him.
Rucker61
02-02-2013, 10:09
To be accurate, if Obama appointed the man who said that, Obama said it by default.
So a president owns every statement or action by an appointee, forever, ad infinitum? Ridiculous position to hold.
Oh...Chu recanted. That's nice. I believe him.
Look around. Oil production is at a 20 year high and the administration has taken action to reduce speculation, which accounted for about 80% of the trading activity when oil was near $150 a barrel. But hey, Obama could personally cure cancer and you'd criticize him for increasing unemployment amount oncologists.
Bailey Guns
02-02-2013, 10:35
So a president owns every statement or action by an appointee, forever, ad infinitum? Ridiculous position to hold.
No, it's not. The buck should stop with the administration. Obama has said as much. Obama has appointed numerous czars and cabinet members with extreme positions. Like Van Jones. He knew he stepped over the line with that guy and, to his credit, he removed him (maybe not directly, but certainly "influenced" his resignation). A cabinet member is a reflection of the attitudes and beliefs of the president.
Look around. Oil production is at a 20 year high and the administration has taken action to reduce speculation, which accounted for about 80% of the trading activity when oil was near $150 a barrel. But hey, Obama could personally cure cancer and you'd criticize him for increasing unemployment amount oncologists.
Oil production is up DESPITE what the administration has done...not because of anything the administration has done.
You are correct in that I don't care for Obama's policies and the direction in which he wants to take this country. No doubt. You, apparently, are happy with it. We have a philosophical difference in opinions. You are apparently happy with Obama taking us quickly towards the road to European-style socialism where the state is responsible for the individual. I prefer limited government and, no matter how small it is, I still want minimal intrusion into my life by that government.
....and adjust it for inflation.....
https://www.nationalreview.com/sites/default/files/nfs/uploaded/u814/2012/03/Post%20Graphic.jpg
http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/293313/adjusted-inflation-gas-prices-look-even-worse
http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/images/charts/Oil/Gasoline_inflation_chart.htm
Rucker61
02-02-2013, 11:03
....and adjust it for inflation.....
https://www.nationalreview.com/sites/default/files/nfs/uploaded/u814/2012/03/Post%20Graphic.jpg
http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/293313/adjusted-inflation-gas-prices-look-even-worse
http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/images/charts/Oil/Gasoline_inflation_chart.htm
China's oil consumption has doubled since 2000, which has had a signficant effect on world-wide demand, and pricing.
To be accurate, Obama didn't say that, Steven Chu did, before he was selected for head of DOE. It's been widely reported that he's recanted from that position last March. In any case, domestic oil and natural gas production are at their highest levels in almost two decades.
That is correct But obama did say about $4 gas, " I think that I would have preferred a gradual adjustment. The fact that this is such a shock to American pocketbooks is not a good thing."
So his only concern was timing not the amount.
Rucker61
02-02-2013, 12:15
That is correct But obama did say about $4 gas, " I think that I would have preferred a gradual adjustment. The fact that this is such a shock to American pocketbooks is not a good thing."
So his only concern was timing not the amount.
In context, that was in reference to exisitng higher gas prices, which a president has no real influence over. I, too, would prefer a gradual hike to a higher price rather than an instantaneous one, as it would cost me less over time. Obama also said:
“Here’s the bottom line with respect to gas prices, I want to get gas prices lower because they hurt families, because I meet folks everyday who have to drive a long way to get to work and them filling up this gas tank gets more and more painful and is a tax out of their pocketbooks out of their paychecks,” the president said.
Also an oil rig exploded the other day in the Gulf of Mexico
NightCat
02-02-2013, 19:45
I paid $3.09 for 91 a week ago exactly.....Yesterday I paid $3.55
WTF!
My wife and I just talked about this last night. seems like a week or two ago I filled up for $2.49 a gallon for 85. now it is up to $2.96 tonight.
centrarchidae
02-03-2013, 03:12
Maybe if his beloved auto industry didn't do their best to undermine public transportation development at every turn, There would be worthy public trans. to take.
Maybe, but that's not just the auto industry. Public buses aren't so much buses as they are mental-health clinics/urinals/detox centers on wheels. I spend more time on RTD than I like to think about, and the auto industry didn't make the Route 15 or 16 a war zone.
Besides, there's only one passenger rail line in the entire US that pays for itself from passenger fares. It damn sure isn't RTD. And considering that it's an Amtrak line, it probably doesn't even break even but there's government-quality accounting at work.
Byte Stryke
02-03-2013, 04:55
Someone call Barry and tell him he left the printer running...
rsraider113
02-03-2013, 08:25
Filled up on last week in Colorado Springs at 2.79 before driving to Denver for a trip to Houston, prices in Houston were all ready 3.19 the day we arrived, by the time we left yesterday (Feb 2), paid 3.49.
Rucker61
02-03-2013, 10:07
Maybe, but that's not just the auto industry. Public buses aren't so much buses as they are mental-health clinics/urinals/detox centers on wheels.
I used to ride the 43 line in Seattle that passed through the hospital area (Pill Hill). You've quite succintly described my experience.
USAFGopherMike
02-03-2013, 11:03
Speculators, refinery limitations, Middle East instability (see speculators), but above all else, taxes. For that I blame Washington. If you think the administration and its anti-fossil fuels policies have nothing to do with the price of gas, you're ignorant. Over-regulation by the EPA is part of the problem but supply/demand definitely play a part and more consumption definitely drives the price up. Look at the production/supply of lowers/mags/ammunition flying off the shelves faster than manufacturers/importers can keep up as we as shooters are worried about future availability (speculation, demand, regulation). It's not one thing but the combination of many factors influencing the price vendors are demanding.
BushMasterBoy
02-03-2013, 14:23
Secretary Chu is resigning...
http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/01/politics/obama-chu-cabinet
Up $0.40 since last week.
funkymonkey1111
02-16-2013, 09:21
in december i paid $2.60 for 85octane at costco. last night it was $3.36. that's a huge swing in less than three months. while it's apples to oranges station-wise, some conocos close the interstate at charging $3.69 for 85.
Obama wants you to be a good citizen and turn in your truck/SUV with your pmags and consider it patriotic.
speedysst
02-16-2013, 10:26
Im in Meeker and two days ago it went up .20 overnight. One gas station owner said gas here will be $4.00/gal within the next month or so.
Kraven251
02-16-2013, 12:03
The economy was getting better don't you know, so it is time to tank it. Diesel is already $4.00 a gallon, can't wait to see how high it goes come summer. Think milk and a loaf of bread is expensive now, just wait.
We'll see $4.50 gas like we did in 2008 before everything went to shit. Just know it's coming, and probably won't get any better.
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