View Full Version : Question: Someone else paying for a firearm purchase
jackthewall81
02-06-2013, 21:42
I pretty sure this wont work, but just want to make sure. Say a buddy wants to buy a gun for his friend. Say the buddy pays for a gun online, and has all of the shipping and transfer information under his friends name. So everything is under the friends name, except the credit card information. Could the friend pick up the gun, or does it have to be picked up by the person who's name is on the credit card?
I am pretty the answer is no, but just want some facts. And say the buddy who is buying is out of town indefinitely.
rockhound
02-06-2013, 21:46
translation: so I found this credit card and want to buy a gun
Whoever picks up the gun (transferee) fills out the 4473. It doesn't matter who pays for it. The FFL holder who performs the transfer could care less who pays for the gun. He cares a lot who fills out the 4473 and is the actual owner of the weapon. The actual owner is the one who fills out the 4473, regardless of who paid for it. Someone else paying for your weapon isn't a straw purchase. We had a lot of people come in to Sportsman's Warehouse who paid for a weapon that wasn't going to belong to them. The owner always filled out the 4473.
Uberjager
02-06-2013, 21:56
If the guy who's paying for it, will be receiving it, then it would be a straw purchase. However, if he's paying for the gun for someone else, then it's not an issue.
I'm 90% sure it would be a straw purchase.
How is that? The straw purchase comes about if the background check is done under someone else's name. If I bought a gun with the purpose of giving it to you and then filled out the 4473 for myself and then gave the gun to you that would be a straw purchase. Anyone can pay for the gun as long as the guy that is getting the rifle has the 4473 filled out in his name.
Uberjager
02-06-2013, 22:07
How is that? The straw purchase comes about if the background check is done under someone else's name. If I bought a gun with the purpose of giving it to you and then filled out the 4473 for myself and then gave the gun to you that would be a straw purchase. Anyone can pay for the gun as long as the guy that is getting the rifle has the 4473 filled out in his name.
I must have phrased my post wrong.
jackthewall81
02-06-2013, 22:12
translation: so I found this credit card and want to buy a gun
Why are we so pessimistic!
10mm-man
02-06-2013, 22:23
Whoever picks up the gun (transferee) fills out the 4473. It doesn't matter who pays for it. The FFL holder who performs the transfer could care less who pays for the gun. He cares a lot who fills out the 4473 and is the actual owner of the weapon. The actual owner is the one who fills out the 4473, regardless of who paid for it. Someone else paying for your weapon isn't a straw purchase. We had a lot of people come in to Sportsman's Warehouse who paid for a weapon that wasn't going to belong to them. The owner always filled out the 4473.
I had someone say; Hey I bought this gun can you do a transfer? Sure! Ok, so when it comes in, it is in someone else's name because someone else paid for it. But the guy paying for it buddy wants to pick it up and do the paperwork-BGC. Well guess what, I do care and decline to do it. It is up to the FFL, but in this case I declined to do it. Why? Because IMO, the person who pays for it, owns it. And there is no reason the person paying for it can't do the background check.
EDIT: Just read above about people going in to a shop to buy a gun. Say; MOM want's to pay for son to have a gun. Mom pays and son fills out BGC. That would be ok IMO. Another thing is bonifide gifts; no reason Mom, Dad, bro, Sis, etc. can't buy that gun and give it as a gift. (with in the law)
Remember; an FFL does not have to do the transfer and can decline for "WHATEVER REASON HE CHOOSES"........
Teufelhund
02-06-2013, 22:34
How is that? The straw purchase comes about if the background check is done under someone else's name. If I bought a gun with the purpose of giving it to you and then filled out the 4473 for myself and then gave the gun to you that would be a straw purchase. Anyone can pay for the gun as long as the guy that is getting the rifle has the 4473 filled out in his name.
I'm curious how this is different from you buying a gun and then giving it to someone as a gift.
Remember; an FFL does not have to do the transfer and can decline for "WHATEVER REASON HE CHOOSES"........
I agree with this but I'm curious what happens then? Can the FFL that declined send it to another local FFL willing to do the transfer or does it have to go back to the shipper?
10mm-man
02-06-2013, 22:42
I agree with this but I'm curious what happens then? Can the FFL that declined send it to another local FFL willing to do the transfer or does it have to go back to the shipper?
FFL's can send amongst FFL's with no problems. If I thought it was a straw purchase and you asked me to transfer it; I would, but prob would tell the other FFL the reason I wouldn't do it and let him decide. It is really a judgement call of the FFL. Also the FFL could report it as a straw purchase (to the ATF) if he thinks it is. Why not just pay for it and do the BGC? Why get a buddy involved anyway?
I'm curious how this is different from you buying a gun and then giving it to someone as a gift.
A straw purchase really only applies in the end when the "straw" purchaser is buying it for someone that is not legally allowed to have the firearm.. otherwise that person would just buy the firearm on their own.
another question
could you run the BG check on both parties if they were present and explained the deal? Thinking if so that would satisfy that both are not prohibited.
I had someone say; Hey I bought this gun can you do a transfer? Sure! Ok, so when it comes in, it is in someone else's name because someone else paid for it. But the guy paying for it buddy wants to pick it up and do the paperwork-BGC. .
There are plenty of ways to purchase a firearm with one persons card and name and have it delivered to someone else's name and address. Most purchases you make online will have the option to have a separate "Bill To" and "Ship To" address both of which can be completely different people.
10mm-man
02-06-2013, 22:48
another question
could you run the BG check on both parties if they were present and explained the deal? Thinking if so that would satisfy that both are not prohibited.
You could , but why? If the buddy want to buy a gun for buddy just because buddy is a great guy, birthday or whatever. Do it as a gift..... Or if buddy is worried about buddy then yes, they can both be ran to make the FFL and buddy feel better it is not a "straw purchase"...
10mm-man
02-06-2013, 22:51
There are plenty of ways to purchase a firearm with one persons card and name and have it delivered to someone else's name and address. Most purchases you make online will have the option to have a separate "Bill To" and "Ship To" address both of which can be completely different people.
Ship to is always to the FFL, no other option... Sorry! I get a reciept always saying who paid for it as it comes in that persons name. If the dealer sending it sends reciept saying "joe shmuck" paid , then "joe Shmuck" is who fills out BGC..... Other FFL's might not care. This is how i do it.......
Ship to is always to the FFL, no other option... Sorry! I get a reciept always saying who paid for it as it comes in that persons name. If the dealer sending it sends reciept saying "joe shmuck" paid , then "joe Shmuck" is who fills out BGC..... Other FFL's might not care. This is how i do it.......
Yes of course the ship to is the FFL but any time you buy something you can use completely different billing and shipping info.. The person that is supposed to receive the firearm would be listed on the ship to. Try it some time.
10mm-man
02-06-2013, 22:56
Yes of course the ship to is the FFL but any time you buy something you can use completely different billing and shipping info.. The person that is supposed to receive the firearm would be listed on the ship to. Try it some time.
Try what? I don't ship fire arms..... SA
Anything else you wish to make up?
Try what? I don't ship fire arms..... SA
Now you are just trying to be dumb..
Go to the AimSurplus website.. put a rifle into your shopping cart, go to the checkout, under "ship to" put in your name and the FFL shipping info, go to the "billing" line, put in someone else's name and address and credit card info.. Not hard to figure out.
rockhound
02-06-2013, 23:01
Why are we so pessimistic!
Just yankin yer chain
10mm-man
02-06-2013, 23:01
Now you are just trying to be dumb..
I have no clue what your even talking about or what you want me to try. Since your a man of experience and an FFL please do explain your way. maybe it is better and we can all learn from it. If not, move along, I am not trying to argue with you, just trying to answer the Op question the best I can....
FFL's can send amongst FFL's with no problems. If I thought it was a straw purchase and you asked me to transfer it; I would, but prob would tell the other FFL the reason I wouldn't do it and let him decide. It is really a judgement call of the FFL. Also the FFL could report it as a straw purchase (to the ATF) if he thinks it is. Why not just pay for it and do the BGC? Why get a buddy involved anyway?
I was just wondering what protocol is, not necessarily in this situation. Seems like the same doubts could come up if someone buying a firearm said "my friend sent me the money to buy this as my birthday present". They may just be happy and making conversation but who knows. Like you said it's up to the FFL.
Just to clarify, for both of these situations I'm picturing someone (friend, family member, etc) wanting to pay for a gun for someone in another state as a gift.
10mm-man
02-06-2013, 23:46
I was just wondering what protocol is, not necessarily in this situation. Seems like the same doubts could come up if someone buying a firearm said "my friend sent me the money to buy this as my birthday present". They may just be happy and making conversation but who knows. Like you said it's up to the FFL.
Just to clarify, for both of these situations I'm picturing someone (friend, family member, etc) wanting to pay for a gun for someone in another state as a gift.
As long as it comes in the name of the person taking possession it shouldn't be an issue. Friend, Mom, whoever is in NY and pays for it online and ships it to FFL (in another state) in the name of person taking possession- no issue.
As stated by others, some FFL's might not care who pays for it or who's name it comes in. I however want the person who's name it is shipped to doing the BGC. Hope I helped to answer the question.
As long as it comes in the name of the person taking possession it shouldn't be an issue. Friend, Mom, whoever is in NY and pays for it online and ships it to FFL (in another state) in the name of person taking possession- no issue.
As stated by others, some FFL's might not care who pays for it or who's name it comes in. I however want the person who's name it is shipped to doing the BGC. Hope I helped to answer the question.
Makes sense, thanks!
jackthewall81
02-07-2013, 00:12
Ok so... It's up to the dealer I guess...
10mm-man
02-07-2013, 00:29
Ok so... It's up to the dealer I guess...
Pretty much; I am not aware of any regulation that covers that. When i went through the face to face meeting with the ATF, I had tons of questions like this. They told me if in doubt, I never had to do the transfer. I just try to avoid any situation that could be construed as a straw purchase. I just try to follow the KISS principle and as straight forward as possible.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.