View Full Version : LAPD manhunt for one of their own - Christopher Dorner
On today's episode of when good cops go bad... No cop bashing! Former LAPD officer suspected in triple homicide being being sought by LAPD:
A manhunt involving multiple law enforcement agencies was underway early Thursday after three police officers were shot -- one fatally -- in Riverside County. Authorities believe that the suspect is a former Los Angeles police officer already wanted in connection with two Orange County slayings.
Riverside police investigate the scene where two fellow officers were shot, one fatally, early Thursday. Police suspect Christopher Jordan Dorner, a former LAPD officer, in the shootings and those of another police officer in Corona and a couple in Irvine earlier this week.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/la-me-manhunt-ex-lapd-officer-pictures,0,268116.photogallery
Sad when the PD has to go after one of their own...
Zundfolge
02-07-2013, 12:29
But but but only the Police should have guns?!
What's interesting is how much of a leftard anti-gun activist (http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/Politics/20130207T173200/Concerned-Law-Enforcement-Veteran-Speaks-His-Mind) this POS is. Sure, he wants the proles disarmed because he cares about "public safety".
More evidence that liberalism is a mental disorder.
In before this is labeled anti cop and gets the lock.
Kinda sounds like they created a monster and now they are having problems hunting him down. Depending on what he did in the military this could turn out pretty bad. In before close.
No cop bashing!
Hey Ashton... reading not your thing huh?
UPDATE: Early reports state a man matching the suspect's description is holed up in a hotel... hope this ends well.
This is heartbreaking. :(
BushMasterBoy
02-07-2013, 12:53
Sounds like a blue Nissan is a NO NO in LA right right now....
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/ex-cop-manhunt-newspaper-delivery-women-shot.html
Sounds like a blue Nissan is a NO NO in LA right right now....
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/ex-cop-manhunt-newspaper-delivery-women-shot.html
driving while blue? (that is messed up. hell the whole thing is messed up)
blacklabel
02-07-2013, 13:08
Dude is pissed. This is quite the read.
http://www.wcvarones.com/2013/02/psycho-cop-christopher-jordan-dorners.html?m=1
Dude is pissed. This is quite the read.
http://www.wcvarones.com/2013/02/psycho-cop-christopher-jordan-dorners.html?m=1
Holy crap.
encorehunter
02-07-2013, 13:23
Sounds like a blue Nissan is a NO NO in LA right right now....
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/ex-cop-manhunt-newspaper-delivery-women-shot.html
The bad part is that is a Blue Toyota Tacoma. They don't even have the right vehicle type.
hollohas
02-07-2013, 13:26
This guy is psychotic. I suspect we'll be seeing something similar to the North Hollywood Shootout on the news sometime today. Hope no more good guys get killed while hunting this guy down.
hollohas
02-07-2013, 13:29
The bad part is that is a Blue Toyota Tacoma. They don't even have the right vehicle type.
The police were on the radio during a press conference earlier talking about an accidental shooting that a couple innocents were shot as a result of the mistaken identity of the vehicle. I am trying to find a news report of that online...
(deleted)
Has anyone read the whole manifesto?
"
It also left officers extremely jittery. According to a senior law enforcement source, two people were wounded when officers in Torrance, California, opened fire on a blue pickup truck after it pulled up in front of a house where they were guarding a fellow officer Dorner had allegedly named as a target.
The truck -- which turned out to be a newspaper delivery vehicle --"
Opps, wrong truck, sorry....
blacklabel
02-07-2013, 13:48
(deleted)
Has anyone read the whole manifesto?
I've read a majority of it.
Kraven251
02-07-2013, 14:04
hopefully the threat he represents will be reduced by 10rnd magazines [fail]
hopefully the threat he represents will be reduced by 10rnd magazines [fail]
but high cap mags should only be for cops [Flower]
DavieD55
02-07-2013, 14:22
WOW! Now they're indiscriminately shooting at blue tacos. That place is past the point of no return.
DavieD55
02-07-2013, 14:24
hopefully the threat he represents will be reduced by 10rnd magazines [fail]
7 rounds would have prevented this whole thing. [Bang]
WOW! Now they're indiscriminately shooting at blue tacos. That place is past the point of no return.
I'm usually not a fan of litigation but in this instance I hope the victims (or their surviving families) of these "hey, there's a Tacoma, shoot it!" incidents take the municipalities these shootings occurred in to the cleaners.
10mm-man
02-07-2013, 14:33
But but but only the Police should have guns?!
What's interesting is how much of a leftard anti-gun activist (http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/Politics/20130207T173200/Concerned-Law-Enforcement-Veteran-Speaks-His-Mind) this POS is. Sure, he wants the proles disarmed because he cares about "public safety".
More evidence that liberalism is a mental disorder.
F'n hypocrite! Unfortunately a good majority see it that way....
liberty19
02-07-2013, 14:49
I read the whole manifesto. Sounds like this guy is on a witch-hunt. I hope no other innocents are hurt by or because of this guy. He doesn't sound like he will surrender.
brokenscout
02-07-2013, 14:50
I'm curious to see where this goes, I wonder if they really did screw him over? If they did people have a breaking point.. At least the was a Cop instead of a Tea PArty supporter[Coffee].. Glad gun controls working for Kali
Citizen_Soldier
02-07-2013, 14:51
This site has the full, uncensored manifesto:
http://hiphopandpolitics.wordpress.com/2013/02/07/uncensored-manifesto-from-retired-lapd-officer-christopher-dorner/
So . . . he is assassinating LAPD officers in order to "clear his name" and his manifesto claims that if helicopter gunships come after him he will shoot them down with his surface to air missiles? No wonder they fired his crazy ass. Guy makes the unibomber look almost sane in comparison. They'll find this nut fairly quickly.
What happens to training - The "Blue Truck" is peppered http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/02/07/massive-manhunt-underway-for-ex-cop-after-riverside-police-officer-fatally-shot/ but mistaken identity.
So . . . he is assassinating LAPD officers in order to "clear his name" and his manifesto claims that if helicopter gunships come after him he will shoot them down with his surface to air missiles? No wonder they fired his crazy ass. Guy makes the unibomber look almost sane in comparison. They'll find this nut fairly quickly.
Clearly this guy is cookoo! I really do hope no officers are harmed while trying to nab this loony toon... And I couldn't finish his manifesto, I'll try to later just to see how far down the rabbit hole this nut goes.
PugnacAutMortem
02-07-2013, 15:20
I'm usually not a fan of litigation but in this instance I hope the victims (or their surviving families) of these "hey, there's a Tacoma, shoot it!" incidents take the municipalities these shootings occurred in to the cleaners.
Amen! This isn't meant to be cop bashing, but you can't have the LAPD open firing on a truck that kinda looks like the one you are looking for...let alone open fire on a truck that looks exactly like what you are looking for until you have identified the occupants. Unacceptable, and I hope the families get as much money as legally possible.
lowbeyond
02-07-2013, 15:39
Holy crap. How is a blue pick up anything like a charcoal Nissan titan ? How is two women anything like a black guy?
Randomly shooting stuff becasue they are jittery? WTF. That is attempted murder in my book.
I am curious what others who make it all the way through his 'manifesto' think about the numerous allegations he's made. Since he is acting on his plan to kill people, the natural reaction is to brand him a "nut" and ignore anything else. I confess to having that reaction like others in the thread. Still, in reading that 'manifesto' to try to gain a sense of what pushed him 'over-the-edge,' if some (much?) of what he alleges is true, there are some deep-rooted and serious issues within the LAPD to be addressed.
Note that I am NOT defending his actions in any way.
Read the entire unabridged 'manifesto' and draw your own conclusions.
If you read the whole manifesto he claims to have a 50cal so the LAPD armor will be no good either. haha I thought those were illegal in Cali too.
Aloha_Shooter
02-07-2013, 15:47
For some reason, I keep thinking of all those movies where the good guy is framed for his partner's or some other innocent's murder and then has to flee from a nationwide manhunt.
PugnacAutMortem
02-07-2013, 15:50
I am curious what others who make it all the way through his 'manifesto' think about the numerous allegations he's made. Since he is acting on his plan to kill people, the natural reaction is to brand him a "nut" and ignore anything else. I confess to having that reaction like others in the thread. Still, in reading that 'manifesto' to try to gain a sense of what pushed him 'over-the-edge,' if some (much?) of what he alleges is true, there are some deep-rooted and serious issues within the LAPD to be addressed.
Note that I am NOT defending his actions in any way.
Read the entire unabridged 'manifesto' and draw your own conclusions.
I think you are onto something. I've got a marine buddy living out in LA, and he's seen LAPD officers refuse to help a bleeding car wreck victim because "he didn't want to get blood on him" or the paramedics who didn't save a drowning man because they weren't "swim certified".
Agreed. But it won't happen.
I am curious what others who make it all the way through his 'manifesto' think about the numerous allegations he's made. Since he is acting on his plan to kill people, the natural reaction is to brand him a "nut" and ignore anything else. I confess to having that reaction like others in the thread. Still, in reading that 'manifesto' to try to gain a sense of what pushed him 'over-the-edge,' if some (much?) of what he alleges is true, there are some deep-rooted and serious issues within the LAPD to be addressed.
Note that I am NOT defending his actions in any way.
Read the entire unabridged 'manifesto' and draw your own conclusions.
If you read the whole manifesto he claims to have a 50cal so the LAPD armor will be no good either. haha I thought those were illegal in Cali too.
Yeah, he makes a number of claims that sound like mere bluster. Other claims and allegations, however, have the 'ring' of truth - at least, as I read it.
Like I wrote earlier, I am curious about the impressions of others who read the entire document closely. Is it the work of a 1st-rate nutbag? A guy leading a decent life by all accounts and then something snapped and he just dropped off the deep end? My sense is the guy was mildly to moderately imbalanced for quite some time but managed to hold it together to keep out of trouble for his military and early police career. He began to witness some things that, for some reason, touched a nerve in him deep inside. Were those real or imagined? Did he exaggerate them or act out-of-proportion to the norm? Again, my sense is it was a combination of real and exaggerated. In any case, his current actions are going to shine a spotlight on the LAPD - which seemed his primary objective. His secondary objective, though necessary to achieve the primary, is targeting and killing those whom he feels wronged him.
Just my take. FWIW
dwalker460
02-07-2013, 16:07
I read the whole manifesto. Definitely think he is pissed, definitely think Im glad I am not LAPD.
I am curious what others who make it all the way through his 'manifesto' think about the numerous allegations he's made. Since he is acting on his plan to kill people, the natural reaction is to brand him a "nut" and ignore anything else. I confess to having that reaction like others in the thread. Still, in reading that 'manifesto' to try to gain a sense of what pushed him 'over-the-edge,' if some (much?) of what he alleges is true, there are some deep-rooted and serious issues within the LAPD to be addressed.
Note that I am NOT defending his actions in any way.
Read the entire unabridged 'manifesto' and draw your own conclusions.
Even if it is true- clearly the guy is unfit to be a LEO- c'mon, choking out another officer for ethnic slurs? I don't think he can control his rage and flies off the handle at the slightest provocation. I also can believe that LAPD might have some internal issues, but not as deep seeded and wide-spread as this guy claims... that level of blatant dishonesty and lack of integrity is a little too far fetched.
ETA: For a guy who claims to have impeccable report writing skills, and was "the best ever" at report writing, he sure has a lot of grammar and spelling errors (#1 I noticed was not proper pluralization).
dwalker460
02-07-2013, 16:15
Yeah, he makes a number of claims that sound like mere bluster. Other claims and allegations, however, have the 'ring' of truth - at least, as I read it.
Like I wrote earlier, I am curious about the impressions of others who read the entire document closely. Is it the work of a 1st-rate nutbag? A guy leading a decent life by all accounts and then something snapped and he just dropped off the deep end? My sense is the guy was mildly to moderately imbalanced for quite some time but managed to hold it together to keep out of trouble for his military and early police career. He began to witness some things that, for some reason, touched a nerve in him deep inside. Were those real or imagined? Did he exaggerate them or act out-of-proportion to the norm? Again, my sense is it was a combination of real and exaggerated. In any case, his current actions are going to shine a spotlight on the LAPD - which seemed his primary objective. His secondary objective, though necessary to achieve the primary, is targeting and killing those whom he feels wronged him.
Just my take. FWIW
Problem is nutcases dont generally manage to get a bunch of security clearances and lead security forces in the Navy if you are barely holding it together. I think he is a trained individual dealing with his issues the best way he can make sense of it. Real or not, he feels betrayed and lied to, by people he was supposed to be able to trust with his life, and he has decided to fix the situation. He obviously knows he will be killed, so its equally obvious he wants to call attention to a specific set of circumstances. Sometimes, right or wrong, someone chooses to fight rather than be a victim. In his mind, he is a victim and he is fighting back. You dont have to agree with him ( I dont) , and it is not worse because he is targeting cops. Easy answer is dont be a crooked cop, dont get shot, since he seems to be going out of his way to only shoot people he feels (or has knowledge of) being dirty.
n8tive97
02-07-2013, 16:15
I read it, he's pissed!
I read most of the manifesto, albeit the XXXX'd out version. I'd be very interested in hearing what his family and close friends have to say about this...
I read the whole thing and am curious if the NFA part is factual: if you buy an NFA item with a trust, can you do it in a state other than where you live? -and isn't there still a background check involved for the person who owns the trust? My reason for asking is there seems to be an outsized amount of space in this manifesto devoted to gun control, which seems quite aside from his issues with LAPD.
I read most of the manifesto, albeit the XXXX'd out version. I'd be very interested in hearing what his family and close friends have to say about this...
Unedited version here --> http://content.clearchannel.com/cc-common/mlib/616/02/616_1360213161.pdf
Wow- sounds like a leftist terrorist... no, I didn't stutter. He hates the NRA, he thinks an AWB is a great idea, he idolizes Obama, Biden, and Feinstein, he loves Piers Morgan, he agrees with everything that is wrong, vile, and deplorable in the gun control debate in this nation, and clearly has no respect for the Constitution that he swore an oath to. I hope they get him and I hope he resists but fails to harm anyone else. He doesn't deserve to be put in prison, he deserves to be buried UNDER it.
flan7211
02-07-2013, 16:32
He wants a race war.
Problem is nutcases dont generally manage to get a bunch of security clearances and lead security forces in the Navy if you are barely holding it together. I think he is a trained individual dealing with his issues the best way he can make sense of it. Real or not, he feels betrayed and lied to, by people he was supposed to be able to trust with his life, and he has decided to fix the situation. He obviously knows he will be killed, so its equally obvious he wants to call attention to a specific set of circumstances. Sometimes, right or wrong, someone chooses to fight rather than be a victim. In his mind, he is a victim and he is fighting back. You dont have to agree with him ( I dont) , and it is not worse because he is targeting cops. Easy answer is dont be a crooked cop, dont get shot, since he seems to be going out of his way to only shoot people he feels (or has knowledge of) being dirty.
Agreed on some points. It is not at all trivial to acquire TS/SCI. If I recall correctly, that involved a full lifestyle background investigation and comprehensive polygraph.
As for his targets, some of his warnings led me to believe he would not restrict himself to only those specifically targeted and there may be collateral damage of innocents. It made me think he intended to be indiscriminate once underway. Not sure of his current victims support that or not.
The manifesto on fox and mainstream sites is hevily edited.
Here is an article about the things taken out: http://www.soopermexican.com/2013/02/07/news-media-scrub-cop-murderers-manifesto-of-pro-obama-pro-hillary-loved-msnbc-pro-gay-and-anti-gun-comments/
He is a statist nut
Full version based on link: http://www.crimefilenews.com/2013/02/fired-lapd-officer-obama-lover-and.html, scroll down.
some of the "unabridged" ones linked here ie clear channel are abridged. Search for say Wayne LaPierre to determine if you are reading the full version.
Wow- sounds like a leftist terrorist... no, I didn't stutter. He hates the NRA, he thinks an AWB is a great idea, he idolizes Obama, Biden, and Feinstein, he loves Piers Morgan, he agrees with everything that is wrong, vile, and deplorable in the gun control debate in this nation, and clearly has no respect for the Constitution that he swore an oath to. I hope they get him and I hope he resists but fails to harm anyone else. He doesn't deserve to be put in prison, he deserves to be buried UNDER it.
Huh? I didn't find that in his 'manifesto.' Where did you read this?
ETA: Hmmmm . . . looks like the "unabridged" version I read was not so unabridged after all. The 2nd link by CO Hugh has additional text beyond the one in the link I supplied upthread.
kidicarus13
02-07-2013, 16:45
Huh? I didn't find that in his 'manifesto.' Where did you read this?
ETA: Hmmmm . . . looks like the "unabridged" version I read was not so unabridged after all. The 2nd link by CO Hugh has additional text beyond the one in the link I supplied upthread.
If you had a well regulated AWB, this would not happen. The time is now to reinstitute a ban that will save lives. Why does any sportsman need a 30 round magazine for hunting? Why does anyone need a suppressor? Why does anyone need a AR15 rifle? This is the same small arms weapons system utilized in eradicating Al Qaeda, Taliban, and every enemy combatant since the Vietnam war. Don’t give me that crap that its not a select fire or full auto rifle like the DoD uses. That’s bullshit because troops who carry the M-4/M-16 weapon system for combat ops outside the wire rarely utilize the select fire function when in contact with enemy combatants. The use of select fire probably isn’t even 1% in combat. So in essence, the AR-15 semiautomatic rifle is the same as the M-4/M-16. These do not need to be purchased as easily as walking to your local Walmart (http://rd.bizrate.com/rd?t=http%3A%2F%2Fwalmart.rdr.channelintelligence. com%2Fgo.asp%3FfVhzOC8fBggESSNgXltYRxhqEj92Z1EABEw Ab2RYURdDXSJXNzAjFx0fR0AofBgCBx5ALEsKXEsuazpdHWBcW SYBGwIfGk4wCXBpYRgCd3IUEzsbFwcWDBxWJGkDQVNeVERyGQ4 RHxpPORJpUFImaQRMXh19VC0mQiYTEE0rVyoyNgBwRV5SMzdAU VpLEmoGd3JsXkBTU1g7N1IAAhp*bw8UCxd3cmsLUUBeWzA2Cl5 XEE03RygtNwIMFlFdNjZSUl5DEW4Pc3RjHQIAAQBsZFxQXEQUb hlSWkx*JyBI%26nAID%3D10043468%26szredirectid%3DSZ_ REDIRECT_ID&mid=401&cat_id=15010400&atom=10633&prod_id=&oid=4705638678&pos=1&b_id=18&bid_type=2&bamt=490c73f10dc1f407&cobrand=1&rf=af1&af_assettype_id=10&af_creative_id=6&af_id=6784) or striking the enter key on your keyboard to “add to cart”. All the firearms utilized in my activities are registered to me and were legally purchased at gun stores and private party transfers. All concealable weapons (pistols) were also legally register in my name at police stations or FFL’s. Unfortunately, are you aware that I obtained class III weapons (suppressors) without a background check thru NICS or DROS completely LEGALLY several times? I was able to use a trust account that I created on quicken will maker and a $10 notary charge at a mailbox etc. to obtain them legally. Granted, I am not a felon, nor have a DV misdemeanor conviction or active TRO against me on a NCIC file. I can buy any firearm I want, but should I be able to purchase these class III weapons (SBR’s, and suppressors) without a background check and just a $10 notary signature on a quicken will maker program? The answer is NO. I’m not even a resident of the state i purchased them in. Lock n Load just wanted money so they allow you to purchase class III weapons with just a notarized trust, military ID. Shame on you, Lock n Load. NFA and ATF need new laws and policies that do not allow loopholes such as this. In the end, I hope that you will realize that the small arms I utilize should not be accessed with the ease that I obtained them. Who in there right mind needs a fucking silencer!!! who needs a freaking SBR AR15? No one. No more Virginia Tech, Columbine HS, Wisconsin temple, Aurora theatre, Portland malls, Tucson rally, Newtown Sandy Hook. Whether by executive order or thru a bi-partisan congress an assault weapons ban needs to be re-instituted. Period!!!
AND
Wayne LaPierre, President of the NRA, you’re a vile and inhumane piece of shit. You never even showed 30 seconds of empathy for the children, teachers, and families of Sandy Hook. You deflected any type of blame/responsibility and directed it toward the influence of movies and the media. You are a failure of a human being. May all of your immediate and distant family die horrific deaths in front of you
jhood001
02-07-2013, 16:48
There is something really stinky going on here.
There is something really stinky going on here.
Yep. I have no clue.
Strike everything I wrote earlier.
Weird.
brianakell
02-07-2013, 16:52
Nut case loves prez, feinstein, and wants AWB enough to rant extensively in what amounts to a suicide note in my eyes. Hows the media going to spin this one? What a train wreck.
On another note, mentions severe depression since 08. Wonder how many antidepressant, psychotropic drugs he's on? Look at all the mass shootings/attackers, and then look at the number on psychotropic drugs. Bit interesting. Check side effects on those same drugs too.
If you had a well regulated AWB, this would not happen. The time is now to reinstitute a ban that will save lives. Why does any sportsman need a 30 round magazine for hunting? Why does anyone need a suppressor? Why does anyone need a AR15 rifle? This is the same small arms weapons system utilized in eradicating Al Qaeda, Taliban, and every enemy combatant since the Vietnam war. Don’t give me that crap that its not a select fire or full auto rifle like the DoD uses. That’s bullshit because troops who carry the M-4/M-16 weapon system for combat ops outside the wire rarely utilize the select fire function when in contact with enemy combatants. The use of select fire probably isn’t even 1% in combat. So in essence, the AR-15 semiautomatic rifle is the same as the M-4/M-16. These do not need to be purchased as easily as walking to your local Walmart (http://rd.bizrate.com/rd?t=http%3A%2F%2Fwalmart.rdr.channelintelligence. com%2Fgo.asp%3FfVhzOC8fBggESSNgXltYRxhqEj92Z1EABEw Ab2RYURdDXSJXNzAjFx0fR0AofBgCBx5ALEsKXEsuazpdHWBcW SYBGwIfGk4wCXBpYRgCd3IUEzsbFwcWDBxWJGkDQVNeVERyGQ4 RHxpPORJpUFImaQRMXh19VC0mQiYTEE0rVyoyNgBwRV5SMzdAU VpLEmoGd3JsXkBTU1g7N1IAAhp*bw8UCxd3cmsLUUBeWzA2Cl5 XEE03RygtNwIMFlFdNjZSUl5DEW4Pc3RjHQIAAQBsZFxQXEQUb hlSWkx*JyBI%26nAID%3D10043468%26szredirectid%3DSZ_ REDIRECT_ID&mid=401&cat_id=15010400&atom=10633&prod_id=&oid=4705638678&pos=1&b_id=18&bid_type=2&bamt=490c73f10dc1f407&cobrand=1&rf=af1&af_assettype_id=10&af_creative_id=6&af_id=6784) or striking the enter key on your keyboard to “add to cart”. All the firearms utilized in my activities are registered to me and were legally purchased at gun stores and private party transfers. All concealable weapons (pistols) were also legally register in my name at police stations or FFL’s. Unfortunately, are you aware that I obtained class III weapons (suppressors) without a background check thru NICS or DROS completely LEGALLY several times? I was able to use a trust account that I created on quicken will maker and a $10 notary charge at a mailbox etc. to obtain them legally. Granted, I am not a felon, nor have a DV misdemeanor conviction or active TRO against me on a NCIC file. I can buy any firearm I want, but should I be able to purchase these class III weapons (SBR’s, and suppressors) without a background check and just a $10 notary signature on a quicken will maker program? The answer is NO. I’m not even a resident of the state i purchased them in. Lock n Load just wanted money so they allow you to purchase class III weapons with just a notarized trust, military ID. Shame on you, Lock n Load. NFA and ATF need new laws and policies that do not allow loopholes such as this. In the end, I hope that you will realize that the small arms I utilize should not be accessed with the ease that I obtained them. Who in there right mind needs a fucking silencer!!! who needs a freaking SBR AR15? No one. No more Virginia Tech, Columbine HS, Wisconsin temple, Aurora theatre, Portland malls, Tucson rally, Newtown Sandy Hook. Whether by executive order or thru a bi-partisan congress an assault weapons ban needs to be re-instituted. Period!!!
dwalker460
02-07-2013, 16:57
Now ya see Timmy, the thing about that AWB/Gun Control rant is as a POLICE OFFICER and ACTIVE MILITARY security force leader, he can buy whatever he wishes, in whatever quantity he wished. The fact he calls attention to how an AWB would have prevented his BS is in a single word, laughable.
<MADDOG>
02-07-2013, 17:10
I find it interesting the police actions on the two vehicles do coincide with some of the points in the manifesto (original release); and why is there not more media attention on these shootings? Does the LAPD get a free pass to open fire on anyone because it is being "targeted"? Secondly, why was his original rant "edited"? If it is indeed the true document, does it show left wing nuts in a bad light?
Passing thought, I will also not be surprised if some unsavory citizens use this as a cover to start taking shots at the LAPD themselves.
josh7328
02-07-2013, 17:23
Wow. A crazed mass murderer goes on an anti-gun rant (Irony?) and threatens innocent families? Hope this douche gets shot in the dick. This proves it: Criminals love gun control.
Here is a pic of the Tacoma...
http://i.imgur.com/dHkZjQx.jpg?1
kidicarus13
02-07-2013, 17:45
Here is a pic of the Tacoma...
http://i.imgur.com/dHkZjQx.jpg?1
9 tailgate shots?! Oops, some officers may need more range time than others. Remember, there was no one shooting back at them.
9 tailgate shots?! Oops, some officers may need more range time than others. Remember, there was one shooting back at them.
Uh you mean 18 right?
21003
blacklabel
02-07-2013, 17:57
Uh you mean 18 right?
21003
And no one shooting back at them.
Anybody see updates as to the condition of the occupants of the Tacoma the LAPD did target practice on? The passenger side doesn't look like it'd have been a good spot to be sitting as a newspaper delivery person.
josh7328
02-07-2013, 18:09
As if the gun control debate wasn't bad enough already. Here we go.
TWO separate shootings today with the police mowing down civilians... The women delivering newspapers are in stable condition apparently. I'm just going to say it. We need to take the guns away from cops until they can learn how to properly use them.
josh7328
02-07-2013, 18:14
Absolutely. This is completely outrageous. Crazy killers on the loose is no excuse to start shooting people who present no threat. Even if they do find this guy, they can't just execute him on the spot. We are supposed to have due process here for American citizens, no matter how fucked up they may be. This is like a movie.
TWO separate shootings today with the police mowing down civilians... The women delivering newspapers are in stable condition apparently. I'm just going to say it. We need to take the guns away from cops until they can learn how to properly use them.
LAPD keeps up with the motto: "When in doubt, take'em out"...They aren't going to have enough money to settle with all the families/victims they negligently shoot. It will end up in another LAPD strike and lay-offs.
Rucker61
02-07-2013, 18:25
Holy crap. How is a blue pick up anything like a charcoal Nissan titan ? How is two women anything like a black guy?
Not defending the cops, but from what I've read, the women were delivering papers in the dark with their lights off. Which is understandable, if you don't want to shine your headlights into your customers' bedrooms at zero dark thirty.
Not defending the cops, but from what I've read, the women were delivering papers in the dark with their lights off. Which is understandable, if you don't want to shine your headlights into your customers' bedrooms at zero dark thirty.
So...If you drive with your headlights off, expect to get your car shot up?
hollohas
02-07-2013, 18:28
I found it very odd that I couldn't find a story on any of the major news sites regarding the innocents being shot up when I posted about hearing it on the radio earlier in this thread. The news still isn't saying much about it. But if those folks didn't produce a weapon or threaten the police in any way then the LAPD has a serious problem on their hands. If it is true that the folks in the blue Taco were innocent those officers need to be terminated and charged. If they aren't...well...LA civilians have a history of reacting badly to that type of thing. And there are a bunch of good officers there that could be hurt if the populous turns on them.
Also, as someone mentioned earlier, I hope other bad guys don't use this rouge bad guy as inspiration to start taking shots at the police. Not a good time to be an officer in LA. I hope they all stay safe and are able to hunt down this rouge psychotic killer quickly.
hollohas
02-07-2013, 18:32
Here is a pic of the Tacoma...
http://i.imgur.com/dHkZjQx.jpg?1
How many officers and what guns were they using...I count at least 35 holes and I'm sure I missed some behind the police car door frame and a few over or above the truck...it is amazing they survived.
Not defending the cops, but from what I've read, the women were delivering papers in the dark with their lights off. Which is understandable, if you don't want to shine your headlights into your customers' bedrooms at zero dark thirty.
It was like 5am but isn't that why police cruisers have those things called headlights? You know that are pointing towards the blue truck? or perhaps they could have used their SPOTLIGHTS to determine it wasn't the same truck before mowing down two women (not even the same sex as the person they're looking for)
Some of the stuff being posted as removed portions of the original manifesto are nothing more than some ass sitting at a keyboard making up shit and putting it out there as the real thing. I have no doubt that LAPD or who ever got their hands on the manifesto first have redacted any info that could be chased down and verified by one of those dying breed, an investigative reporter. Now there is a fully fledged campaign to paint this guy as a kook. But hey it is for the consumption of the low information hoopleheads.
Anyone who thinks the PDs of NY, Chicago, New Orleans have a lock on the corruption gig better wake up. That lot could probably learn a few pointers on the art of coverup from LAPD.
Can y'all imagine how the champagne corks are popping in DC tonight as this absorbs every broadcast second of every tabloid news source from ABC all the way to faux news and takes the spotlight off their thieving and deceiving.
hollohas
02-07-2013, 18:58
Erin Burnett is covering this now. The NCIS has given information that this guy qualified as a marksman with the rifle and expert with the 9mm.
In other words he's not as good as he thinks he is, at least with the rifle. Sounds like he's in the mountains now so they will find him soon. He's no sniper based on his qualification so the mountains will by no means allow him to go on offense as effectively as when he shot-up those officers this morning.
I'm sure they have FLIR up, the dogs out and from the recent pictures of him he's not in great shape so I bet he can't get too far. My guess. Is they find him with a gun in his mouth...
Erin Burnett is covering this now. The NCIS has given information that this guy qualified as a marksman with the rifle and expert with the 9mm.
In other words he's not as good as he thinks he is, at least with the rifle. Sounds like he's in the mountains now so they will find him soon. He's no sniper based on his classification so the mountains will by no means allow him to go on offense as effectively as when he shot-up those officers this morning.
I'm sure they have FLIR up, the dogs out and from the recent pictures of him he's not in great shape so I bet he can't get too far. My guess. Is they find him with a gun in his mouth...
I'm calling it here. They never catch him.
Rucker61
02-07-2013, 19:05
So...If you drive with your headlights off, expect to get your car shot up?
No, but a dark truck in the dark is harder to identify than one in daylight or with the lights on. There is no excuse for the cops' behaviour, but I can see how they would claim that the truck looked similar to the one they were looking for, and it happened to stop in the wrong spot for the occupants.
hollohas
02-07-2013, 19:07
I saw arial footage of the blue taco...looks like the bed was full of newspapers. I suspect that's why those women survived.
No, but a dark truck in the dark is harder to identify than one in daylight or with the lights on. There is no excuse for the cops' behaviour, but I can see how they would claim that the truck looked similar to the one they were looking for, and it happened to stop in the wrong spot for the occupants.
It's about time cops were held to the same standards that are imposed on our fighting men in war zones. Imagine if this happened in Iraq? I can hear the accusations from pussy congressmen now.
hollohas
02-07-2013, 19:11
This dude's super nuts. He sent a package to Anderson Cooper with a DVD of his testimony and a shot-up police coin with a note that said "1MOA". CNN got the package on the 1st of the month and didn't bother to alert anyone...
BTW, CNN and Anderson thought "1 MOA" meant "imagine a more open america". Dumb asses.
You couldn't make this stuff up.
CNN got the package on the 1st of the month and didn't bother to alert anyone...
It might take a week or more, minimum, just to have an unsolicited package opened by a media outlet due to backlog. They receive a ton of stuff from budding wannabe 'journalists' hoping to be noticed.
hollohas
02-07-2013, 19:22
It might take a week or more, minimum, just to have an unsolicited package opened by a media outlet due to backlog. They receive a ton of stuff from budding wannabe 'journalists' hoping to be noticed.
Yes, that could be the case.
There is a winter storm warning for the area where they found his burnt out truck. might be a cold night.
BTW, CNN and Anderson thought "1 MOA" meant "imagine a more open america". Dumb asses.
You couldn't make this stuff up.
No Way. Can't even google it? [fail]
Nice to take responsibility, ie saving lives. [shithitsfan]
hollohas
02-07-2013, 19:33
No Way. Can't even google it? [fail]
http://www.cnn.com/video/standard.html?hpt=hp_t1#/video/us/2013/02/07/tsr-ex-cop-alleged-cop-killer-reached-out-to-cnn.cnn
this video doesn't mention they didn't know what 1 MOA meant but Cooper only said that minutes ago on his show. Normally I steer clear of Anderson Cooper but nobody else is talking about this right now.
Some of the stuff being posted as removed portions of the original manifesto are nothing more than some ass sitting at a keyboard making up shit and putting it out there as the real thing.
go to the Sooper Mexican http://www.soopermexican.com/2013/02/07/news-media-scrub-cop-murderers-manifesto-of-pro-obama-pro-hillary-loved-msnbc-pro-gay-and-anti-gun-comments/
"UPDATE:
News regurgitator Bill Handel is reporting on the KFI radio show that news outlets have been specifically told to post a “redacted” version of the manifesto, in order to protect the names of the police men and women targeted by the murderer – I will replace that portion with police names with the redacted version to protect them. However, it must be noted that the redacted version ALSO doesn’t have the Obama and liberal references."
go to the Sooper Mexican http://www.soopermexican.com/2013/02/07/news-media-scrub-cop-murderers-manifesto-of-pro-obama-pro-hillary-loved-msnbc-pro-gay-and-anti-gun-comments/
"UPDATE:
News regurgitator Bill Handel is reporting on the KFI radio show that news outlets have been specifically told to post a “redacted” version of the manifesto, in order to protect the names of the police men and women targeted by the murderer – I will replace that portion with police names with the redacted version to protect them. However, it must be noted that the redacted version ALSO doesn’t have the Obama and liberal references."
Of course not, that would RUIN the plan.
OneGuy67
02-07-2013, 20:21
There was an officer I worked with once years ago who was going through a very tough time; divorcing, losing his house, losing his access to his child, trouble at work, etc. and he also just lost it. He wrote something similar in nature (not to the extent of the violence or the political garbage), rambling in nature, "everyone's out to get him", type stuff. It was pretty bizarre to read, similar to this guy's rantings. He holed up in a hotel and was calling reporters to 'get his story out'. He was eventually fired and went through a medical eval and there was evidence of a mental lapse that required him to go on some pretty heavy anti-psychotics and anti-depressants. I've come across him recently and he seems to have rebounded well enough since leaving the LE field. It was bizarre at the time though.
KestrelBike
02-07-2013, 20:56
Sounds like a blue Nissan is a NO NO in LA right right now....
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/ex-cop-manhunt-newspaper-delivery-women-shot.html
I'm going to sound like an a-hole, but those two women basically hit the lawsuit jackpot (assuming the one shot in the back isn't paralyzed)
KestrelBike
02-07-2013, 20:58
go to the Sooper Mexican http://www.soopermexican.com/2013/02/07/news-media-scrub-cop-murderers-manifesto-of-pro-obama-pro-hillary-loved-msnbc-pro-gay-and-anti-gun-comments/
"UPDATE:
News regurgitator Bill Handel is reporting on the KFI radio show that news outlets have been specifically told to post a “redacted” version of the manifesto, in order to protect the names of the police men and women targeted by the murderer – I will replace that portion with police names with the redacted version to protect them. However, it must be noted that the redacted version ALSO doesn’t have the Obama and liberal references."
Of course not, that would RUIN the plan.
mother F****** MEDIA!!!!!!
I'm going to sound like an a-hole, but those two women basically hit the lawsuit jackpot (assuming the one shot in the back isn't paralyzed)
Yup... OH LAWDY WE GONNA BE RICH!
BushMasterBoy
02-07-2013, 21:03
Latest news is he burned the truck and headed into the snowy mountains near Big Bear...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/07/christopher-dorner-big-bear_n_2641807.html
dwalker460
02-07-2013, 21:08
If he is half as smart as he seems, he is not in the mountians but back in the city where it is easier to hide.
<MADDOG>
02-07-2013, 21:29
If he is half as smart as he seems, he is not in the mountians but back in the city where it is easier to hide.
I agree, I don't think he is in those woods either. The "new breed" of nuts today have been watching too many movies. We'll see what happens tonight or tomorrow morning...
hollohas
02-07-2013, 22:07
If he is half as smart as he seems, he is not in the mountians but back in the city where it is easier to hide.
Which is exactly why the police are doing door-to-door searches in the area. Although he could have easily stashed a 2nd vehicle near the burned out one and be in Mexico by now.
But this armchair quarterback doesn't think he's headed to Mexico. This bad guy was hunting his victims. It's not like he shot up those cops because they found him while he was trying to get away. He found them. He has a crazy ass bone to pick and I don't think he's going to stop until he's dead.
dwalker460
02-07-2013, 22:35
Exactly, which is why he is likely back in the city closing in on his next objective.
KestrelBike
02-08-2013, 00:22
Exactly, which is why he is likely back in the city closing in on his next objective.
Maybe he's got a place to lay real low for a month. Then strike again after everyone's guard has let up a little bit.
More than likely, FBI's going to track his ass down pronto-style. I give him 2 days.
KevDen2005
02-08-2013, 02:19
Too bad he went crazy...he appears to be a tactical master in his manifesto. Sounds like an attempt to start a race war. Ridiculous. I hope he's stopped soon.
missionxo
02-08-2013, 07:51
Scroll down to middle of page (read full Manifesto long but worth the read)
http://boywithgrenade.org/tag/lapd-sgt-teresa-evans/
OPINIONS?
Sorry all info was in this Thread ....my bad!!
LAPD manhunt for one of their own (https://www.ar-15.co/threads/87267-LAPD-manhunt-for-one-of-their-own)
liberty19
02-08-2013, 08:02
And they wonder why I need an AR-15 with a 30 round magazine???
hghclsswhitetrsh
02-08-2013, 08:02
. If you had a well regulated AWB, this would not happen. The time is now to reinstitute a ban that will save lives. Why does any sportsman need a 30 round magazine for hunting? Why does anyone need a suppressor? Why does anyone need a AR15 rifle? This is the same small arms weapons system utilized in eradicating Al Qaeda, Taliban, and every enemy combatant since the Vietnam war. Don’t give me that crap that its not a select fire or full auto rifle like the DoD uses. That’s bullshit because troops who carry the M-4/M-16 weapon system for combat ops outside the wire rarely utilize the select fire function when in contact with enemy combatants. The use of select fire probably isn’t even 1% in combat. So in essence, the AR-15 semiautomatic rifle is the same as the M-4/M-16. These do not need to be purchased as easily as walking to your local Walmart or striking the enter key on your keyboard to “add to cart”. All the firearms utilized in my activities are registered to me and were legally purchased at gun stores and private party transfers. All concealable weapons (pistols) were also legally register in my name at police stations or FFL’s. Unfortunately, are you aware that I obtained class III weapons (suppressors) without a background check thru NICS or DROS completely LEGALLY several times? I was able to use a trust account that I created on quicken will maker and a $10 notary charge at a mailbox etc. to obtain them legally. Granted, I am not a felon, nor have a DV misdemeanor conviction or active TRO against me on a NCIC file. I can buy any firearm I want, but should I be able to purchase these class III weapons (SBR’s, and suppressors) without a background check and just a $10 notary signature on a quicken will maker program? The answer is NO. I’m not even a resident of the state i purchased them in. Lock n Load just wanted money so they allow you to purchase class III weapons with just a notarized trust, military ID. Shame on you, Lock n Load. NFA and ATF need new laws and policies that do not allow loopholes such as this. In the end, I hope that you will realize that the small arms I utilize should not be accessed with the ease that I obtained them. Who in there right mind needs a fucking silencer!!! who needs a freaking SBR AR15? No one. No more Virginia Tech, Columbine HS, Wisconsin temple, Aurora theatre, Portland malls, Tucson rally, Newtown Sandy Hook. Whether by executive order or thru a bi-partisan congress an assault weapons ban needs to be re-instituted. Period!!!
hghclsswhitetrsh
02-08-2013, 08:07
Jesus this dude is long winded and bat shit crazy.
Great-Kazoo
02-08-2013, 08:11
Jesus this dude is long winded and bat shit crazy.
AND BLACK Not one mention of his "Color" at all. IF it was a White Hispanic we would be inundated with their "militaristic / racist potential domestic terrorist" leanings. That's a fact.
missionxo
02-08-2013, 08:21
While no person in their right mind can condone any of his actions, at one point in his life he sounded like a very honorable man.
Great-Kazoo
02-08-2013, 08:23
While no person in their right mind can condone any of his actions, at one point in his life he sounded like a very honorable man.
Jeffery Dahmer was the perfect neighbor, same for every other serial killer.
just got to the awb stuff......this dude sucks nothing worse then a libral with a gun
and i thought that even with a trust you still get a backround check for class 3 stuff
missionxo
02-08-2013, 08:28
Jeffery Dahmer was the perfect neighbor, same for every other serial killer.
Very true
airborneranger
02-08-2013, 10:49
The burly man with tattoos on his biceps repeatedly asked why he was not sent to reintegration training after his return from war and on one occasion, began weeping in the patrol car and demanded to be taken back to the police academy to be retrained, court documents show.
I just pulled this from one of the articles about him. The dude was deployed to Bahrain which is hardly a "war zone". Hell, you can take your families there and you can drink beer every night. He is hardly the victim of PTSD.
For some reason, I keep thinking of all those movies where the good guy is framed for his partner's or some other innocent's murder and then has to flee from a nationwide manhunt.
Watched The Running Man last weekend. It has taken a more serious tone because of the way our country has changed since the '80s. It wasn't as 'campy' as I had recalled it.
Very sad about the wrong vehicle being shot up- I guess the LAPD doesn't stress PID before discharging your firearm? Help me out here OneGuy and Kev: your departments stress to the max that you must be sure of your target before you pull the trigger, correct? I don't know any LAPD cops, but it would seem to me that I'd be more afraid of them than the crooks of LA. Like was said before- big time lawsuit coming for the Department and City of LA. They need to beat into the head of every cop in that city that you better be damn sure you are 100% justified before you pull the trigger (of course we don't want them to hesitate too much).
hollohas
02-08-2013, 11:07
This dude was a Riverine with a Marksman qualifcation on the rifle. He is by no means a sniper like the media keeps saying and he isn't special ops. He's thinks his shit don't stink but there are no doubt men much more experienced than him hunting him right now.
This thread has been great for exposing the hypocrisy of a lot of people around here. Especially the ones who would have you believe from their signatures etc that they all have the "Don't tread on me" philosophy to life. Yet when another person reaches the point of pushing back they are the first to jump on the bandwagon to decry and lampoon him with nothing more that hearsay from the state run media. I hope you get the opportunity to walk a mile in shoes of the oppressed one day so that the world might get a chance to see how a hypocrite deals with being stood on.
This thread has been great for exposing the hypocrisy of a lot of people around here. Especially the ones who would have you believe from their signatures etc that they all have the "Don't tread on me" philosophy to life. Yet when another person reaches the point of pushing back they are the first to jump on the bandwagon to decry and lampoon him with nothing more that hearsay from the state run media. I hope you get the opportunity to walk a mile in shoes of the oppressed one day so that the world might get a chance to see how a hypocrite deals with being stood on.
Hypocrisy? Wow... in the words of Ronald Reagan- "There you go again." It's not pushing back when you threaten to murder people's families. It's not being oppressed when you choke out someone for calling you an ethnic slur. It's not being stood on when you make threats against an entire department just because YOU believe they're in on some big conspiracy.
Melvin, nothing that happened to him justified killing two civilians and a cop.
Melvin, nothing that happened to him justified killing two civilians and a cop.
And that's exactly what people will say if they come for your guns and someone gets shot. The cops were just enforcing the law...
I'm not siding one way or the other but people have their limits. The general mentality on here is molon labe but to a lot of civilians, that's crazy talk. Whatever it was that caused this guy to go off the cliff was obviously enough to warrant killing, in his mind. Right or wrong isn't always determined by the law in people's minds. If that was the case, we all better start gift wrapping our "assault" weapons and hand them over because the law could say so pretty soon.
Hypocrisy? Wow... in the words of Ronald Reagan- "There you go again." It's not pushing back when you threaten to murder people's families. It's not being oppressed when you choke out someone for calling you an ethnic slur. It's not being stood on when you make threats against an entire department just because YOU believe they're in on some big conspiracy.
Melvin can speak for himself, but I took his meaning to be that there are parallels to be found in *some* of what Dorner wrote (or rather, what we are to understand he wrote - based on what has been released, re-released, and now re-re-released), and what is often written here. I confess that as I read through the 'manifesto' there were parts that resonated with me and really made me think about similar parallel situations and how those have affected me. Obviously, I did not resort to a killing spree. Because this person HAS resorted to a killing spree, others - in particular the anti's - will seize upon any parallels in his writing to those from the pro-gun community to advance the anti-gun agenda.
I went quiet in this thread after learning of the obvious manipulation of the published manifesto. There is no longer any certainty (probably never was certainty, but the illusion was there - on my part) that any part of what is now published is factual. Even if the excerpts are factual, absent the entire manifesto, the excerpts can be manipulated to suit an agenda - and it is being used that way. I also acknowledge that there was good reason for redacting certain elements of the manifesto as it potentially endangered people. The media, too, has a tightrope to walk in situations like this.
The entire situation is sad. It seems (stress *SEEMS*) the guy had an honorable life through his first 30 years. He writes of a few problems, but nothing out of the ordinary - EXCEPT - that he clings to vivid recall of those problems years later. The best example being the high school episode nearly 20 years ago. Something happened to make him snap. Probably a combination of things both external (events he witnessed and experienced) and internal (his mental processing of those events). Now he is harming innocents. That cannot be allowed and must be stopped. There simply is no justification for his current actions.
Something I've been pondering . . . we are witnessing a person who snapped due to perceived injustice on the part of authorities. Many of our members have written about hypotheticals that might/would lead them to taking up arms to defend their families/liberties. How much more than what Dorner encountered (if you can believe what Dorner is purported to have written AND that it is factual) would it take for YOU to take up arms and take lives?
THIS is what I am taking away from this episode. An opportunity to draw parallels as hypotheticals and ask myself how I might respond.
Now, those people living in Southern California, especially LE and anyone targeted by Dorner are faced with much more immediate concerns than pondering hypotheticals. This is a dangerous reality and I wish them well.
The bandwagon mentality.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTdDN_MRe64
Melvin can speak for himself, but I took his meaning to be that there are parallels to be found in *some* of what Dorner wrote (or rather, what we are to understand he wrote - based on what has been released, re-released, and now re-re-released), and what is often written here. I confess that as I read through the 'manifesto' there were parts that resonated with me and really made me think about similar parallel situations and how those have affected me. Obviously, I did not resort to a killing spree. Because this person HAS resorted to a killing spree, others - in particular the anti's - will seize upon any parallels in his writing to those from the pro-gun community to advance the anti-gun agenda.
I went quiet in this thread after learning of the obvious manipulation of the published manifesto. There is no longer any certainty (probably never was certainty, but the illusion was there - on my part) that any part of what is now published is factual. Even if the excerpts are factual, absent the entire manifesto, the excerpts can be manipulated to suit an agenda - and it is being used that way. I also acknowledge that there was good reason for redacting certain elements of the manifesto as it potentially endangered people. The media, too, has a tightrope to walk in situations like this.
The entire situation is sad. It seems (stress *SEEMS*) the guy had an honorable life through his first 30 years. He writes of a few problems, but nothing out of the ordinary - EXCEPT - that he clings to vivid recall of those problems years later. The best example being the high school episode nearly 20 years ago. Something happened to make him snap. Probably a combination of things both external (events he witnessed and experienced) and internal (his mental processing of those events). Now he is harming innocents. That cannot be allowed and must be stopped. There simply is no justification for his current actions.
Something I've been pondering . . . we are witnessing a person who snapped due to perceived injustice on the part of authorities. Many of our members have written about hypotheticals that might/would lead them to taking up arms to defend their families/liberties. How much more than what Dorner encountered (if you can believe what Dorner is purported to have written AND that it is factual) would it take for YOU to take up arms and take lives?
THIS is what I am taking away from this episode. An opportunity to draw parallels as hypotheticals and ask myself how I might respond.
Now, those people living in Southern California, especially LE and anyone targeted by Dorner are faced with much more immediate concerns than pondering hypotheticals. This is a dangerous reality and I wish them well.
Ditto.[Beer]
The bandwagon mentality.
Sorry, I missed your point. It seems I often find myself asking people to clarify when they post cryptic or sarcastic responses - in this case a cryptic response. Perhaps it is my limited cognitive abilities, but I prefer to think it is that I sincerely want to understand the points being made and do not want to draw a conclusion without benefit of the other person's express statement.
All that by way of saying.. Huh?
And that's exactly what people will say if they come for your guns and someone gets shot. The cops were just enforcing the law...
Huge difference between an illegitimate unprovoked attack on people, and the defense of your home/property/life from an unconstitutional powergrab.
Huge difference between an illegitimate unprovoked attack on people, and the defense of your home/property/life from an unconstitutional powergrab.
Who says it is illegitimate? You? Who says it was unprovoked? There are 2 sides to every story and then there is the truth.
And by the way is the unconstitutional power grab not an illegitimate unprovoked attack??
Huge difference between an illegitimate unprovoked attack on people, and the defense of your home/property/life from an unconstitutional powergrab.
Ronin, to Dorner the attacks *are* legitimate - just as legitimate as the hypothetical "unconstitutional powergrab" you reference. The fact pattern is different, but there are very clear parallels to be drawn. It becomes a matter of degree in multiple dimension. What amount of injustice by authorities will inspire you to take action? What actions will you take - graduated or 'all-in'? Lots of parallels to be drawn.
None of this is to be interpreted as defense of his killing spree.
FWIW
Who says it is illegitimate? You? Who says it was unprovoked? There are 2 sides to every story and then there is the truth.
And by the way is the unconstitutional power grab not an illegitimate unprovoked attack??
Ronin, to Dorner the attacks *are* legitimate - just as legitimate as the hypothetical "unconstitutional powergrab" you reference. The fact pattern is different, but there are very clear parallels to be drawn. It becomes a matter of degree in multiple dimension. What amount of injustice by authorities will inspire you to take action? What actions will you take - graduated or 'all-in'? Lots of parallels to be drawn.
None of this is to be interpreted as defense of his killing spree.
FWIW
I can answer both in one post- Dorner the crazy asshole is wronged by the department- be it with or without just cause... wrongful or legitimate termination is not a justifiable excuse to murder people. From the reports it would appear that he targeted and murdered his victims, as he stated he was going to do in his manifesto. As for LEOs/mil going around door to door on a gun confiscation, that is HUGELY different than being fired (with or without just cause).
Sorry, I missed your point. It seems I often find myself asking people to clarify when they post cryptic or sarcastic responses - in this case a cryptic response. Perhaps it is my limited cognitive abilities, but I prefer to think it is that I sincerely want to understand the points being made and do not want to draw a conclusion without benefit of the other person's express statement.
All that by way of saying.. Huh?
Watch it again. Mob mentality. No forethought of action.
I can answer both in one post- Dorner the crazy asshole is wronged by the department- be it with or without just cause... wrongful or legitimate termination is not a justifiable excuse to murder people. From the reports it would appear that he targeted and murdered his victims, as he stated he was going to do in his manifesto. As for LEOs/mil going around door to door on a gun confiscation, that is HUGELY different than being fired (with or without just cause).
You will not find me in disagreement generally. The only difference is that 6 months ago, it seems (stress *SEEMS*) that no-one would be labeling Dorner a "crazy asshole." Obviously if you BEGIN with the perspective that someone is batshit crazy, it taints the perspective and any conclusions drawn. If you start from the perspective that he was a relatively normal guy - just like you and your neighbor and the guy across the street - then the questions begin to take a new form and the conclusions are different.
This is entirely separate from dealing with his current actions, and those must be dealt with swiftly and decisively to stop the killing.
Just my $.02.
Watch it again. Mob mentality. No forethought of action.
Got it. Thanks.
I can answer both in one post- Dorner the crazy asshole is wronged by the department- be it with or without just cause... wrongful or legitimate termination is not a justifiable excuse to murder people. From the reports it would appear that he targeted and murdered his victims, as he stated he was going to do in his manifesto. As for LEOs/mil going around door to door on a gun confiscation, that is HUGELY different than being fired (with or without just cause).
Again, I ask in all seriousness, how is it that you get to determine which action warrants being repelled. Both actions as you described involve people being stood on by an oppressive system. I would love to see what you would do placed in the same position of being stood on with no legitimate recourse left. Join a monastery?
Don't be so quick to judge a man till you have walked in his shoes.(and have the facts)
Here is a link to an unredacted statement: has names and offensive language. http://boywithgrenade.org/2013/02/07/christopher-dorners-manifesto/
Kraven251
02-08-2013, 13:00
Again, I ask in all seriousness, how is it that you get to determine which action warrants being repelled. Both actions as you described involve people being stood on by an oppressive system. I would love to see what you would do placed in the same position of being stood on with no legitimate recourse left. Join a monastery?
Don't be so quick to judge a man till you have walked in his shoes.(and have the facts)
I only ask this. Did the daughter of the captain or her fiance do anything to cause this guy harm or infringe on his rights in anyway?
I have objection to his actions on a few levels, but operating outside of those that have done you direct harm and targeting family is a valid psychological attack, but all the righteous indignation in the world doesn't justify taking lives of innocents.
dwalker460
02-08-2013, 13:07
I can answer both in one post- Dorner the crazy asshole is wronged by the department- be it with or without just cause... wrongful or legitimate termination is not a justifiable excuse to murder people. From the reports it would appear that he targeted and murdered his victims, as he stated he was going to do in his manifesto. As for LEOs/mil going around door to door on a gun confiscation, that is HUGELY different than being fired (with or without just cause).
People have been killed for a lot less, wars have started over less.
While I do not condone what he is doing, I completely understand it. Ever been bullied? Didya fight back only to have some smart ass limp wrist teacher tell you that you should have walked away? Well thats what this guy is doing, and in his view his life is over. He was fired, branded a liar, forced to leave the Navy, and pretty much had everything he felt he had earned in life, taken from him. Is this the truth? Who fucking knows, but HE BELIEVES it to be true. Is there a conspiracy in the LAPD? Well duh, why do you think a bunch of cops that beat the shit out of a guy on video are still employeed and promoted there? OBVIOUSLY there is a lot fucked up about the LAPD, and this guy is wearing his heart on his sleeve and all pissy about it.
Do I, personally, agree with his actions? No. DO I think he should be put down like a rabid dog? Not really, he broke the law and should have his day in court. What would I do in this situation? No idea, I am a different person with different values. Is this guy batshit crazy? Yeah, maybe. Or maybe he is conducting a psyop action that gains him sympathy for being disturbed, a plausible defense should he be taken alive, and possibly puts his pursuers a little off thier game thinking they are not chasing a capable, rational, cunning individual but a malfunctioning disturbed one. Not taking this guy seriously and dismissing him as a lunatic is dangerous, IMHO.
Jesus this dude is long winded and bat shit crazy.
Yup. My theory is that brevity is crucial. I try not to write more than a page. I have seen letters (statements) like this before and I always figure bat shit crazy Kaczynski.
Aloha_Shooter
02-08-2013, 13:59
One thing I find curious is the redaction of the supposed manifesto. Ostensibly, they redacted names to protect the potential victims. Protect them from what or who? Obviously Dorner already knows who he has a grudge against. The sheer length and variety of the spew in that manifesto increases the case for him being bat shit crazy so why the redactions? Maybe The Powers That Be were worried that some of his allegations might hold water if people dug into them? Wouldn't look good for the Dept even if HIS subsequent reactions are reprehensible.
I hate conspiracy theories but this is a really odd case.
PugnacAutMortem
02-08-2013, 14:22
One thing I find curious is the redaction of the supposed manifesto. Ostensibly, they redacted names to protect the potential victims. Protect them from what or who? Obviously Dorner already knows who he has a grudge against. The sheer length and variety of the spew in that manifesto increases the case for him being bat shit crazy so why the redactions? Maybe The Powers That Be were worried that some of his allegations might hold water if people dug into them? Wouldn't look good for the Dept even if HIS subsequent reactions are reprehensible.
I hate conspiracy theories but this is a really odd case.
That is an interesting point, I had not thought about that. However, what is the point in redacting when the internet already had the unedited version out for the masses to read? It's not terribly hard to find an unedited version...so if they wanted to redact it why only go halfway about it? Just another thought. But I agree, something is fishy about all this.
Great-Kazoo
02-08-2013, 15:47
Melvin can speak for himself, but I took his meaning to be that there are parallels to be found in *some* of what Dorner wrote (or rather, what we are to understand he wrote - based on what has been released, re-released, and now re-re-released), and what is often written here. I confess that as I read through the 'manifesto' there were parts that resonated with me and really made me think about similar parallel situations and how those have affected me. Obviously, I did not resort to a killing spree. Because this person HAS resorted to a killing spree, others - in particular the anti's - will seize upon any parallels in his writing to those from the pro-gun community to advance the anti-gun agenda.
I went quiet in this thread after learning of the obvious manipulation of the published manifesto. There is no longer any certainty (probably never was certainty, but the illusion was there - on my part) that any part of what is now published is factual. Even if the excerpts are factual, absent the entire manifesto, the excerpts can be manipulated to suit an agenda - and it is being used that way. I also acknowledge that there was good reason for redacting certain elements of the manifesto as it potentially endangered people. The media, too, has a tightrope to walk in situations like this.
The entire situation is sad. It seems (stress *SEEMS*) the guy had an honorable life through his first 30 years. He writes of a few problems, but nothing out of the ordinary - EXCEPT - that he clings to vivid recall of those problems years later. The best example being the high school episode nearly 20 years ago. Something happened to make him snap. Probably a combination of things both external (events he witnessed and experienced) and internal (his mental processing of those events). Now he is harming innocents. That cannot be allowed and must be stopped. There simply is no justification for his current actions.
Something I've been pondering . . . we are witnessing a person who snapped due to perceived injustice on the part of authorities. Many of our members have written about hypotheticals that might/would lead them to taking up arms to defend their families/liberties. How much more than what Dorner encountered (if you can believe what Dorner is purported to have written AND that it is factual) would it take for YOU to take up arms and take lives?
THIS is what I am taking away from this episode. An opportunity to draw parallels as hypotheticals and ask myself how I might respond.
Now, those people living in Southern California, especially LE and anyone targeted by Dorner are faced with much more immediate concerns than pondering hypotheticals. This is a dangerous reality and I wish them well.
He used BUZZ words. Just like a resume something to catch the eye. IF (key word) he puts in to wiritng any and everything that will appeal to some portion of this country he got his wish. That being people ask questions, regarding him being innocent and or framed / crazy.
Once he killed non-le's his game changed and no longer has any validity regarding being wronged by the dept.
Either way do we condone the innocent killing / execution of innocent people? I know i do not, you?
People have been killed for a lot less, wars have started over less.
While I do not condone what he is doing, I completely understand it. Ever been bullied? Didya fight back only to have some smart ass limp wrist teacher tell you that you should have walked away? Well thats what this guy is doing, and in his view his life is over. He was fired, branded a liar, forced to leave the Navy, and pretty much had everything he felt he had earned in life, taken from him. Is this the truth? Who fucking knows, but HE BELIEVES it to be true. Is there a conspiracy in the LAPD? Well duh, why do you think a bunch of cops that beat the shit out of a guy on video are still employeed and promoted there? OBVIOUSLY there is a lot fucked up about the LAPD, and this guy is wearing his heart on his sleeve and all pissy about it.
Do I, personally, agree with his actions? No. DO I think he should be put down like a rabid dog? Not really, he broke the law and should have his day in court. What would I do in this situation? No idea, I am a different person with different values. Is this guy batshit crazy? Yeah, maybe. Or maybe he is conducting a psyop action that gains him sympathy for being disturbed, a plausible defense should he be taken alive, and possibly puts his pursuers a little off thier game thinking they are not chasing a capable, rational, cunning individual but a malfunctioning disturbed one. Not taking this guy seriously and dismissing him as a lunatic is dangerous, IMHO.
With this, I do have to say that yes, I've been through the very scenario you described- in fact after being physically attacked while cornered the school still said I should have walked away. [facepalm]But that's oranges, and we're talking about apples here. Just because people have been killed for less still makes it wrong what this guy is doing. Without getting into too much of a debate about the King incident, Rodney King was high as a kite, driving in excess, resisting arrest, and it was decided that the cops' use of force was text book and justified, take that as you may, but I find that whole thing blown out of proportion by racial tension. You all who think that this guy was just a normal guy pushed too far and finally reached the end of his rope need to look at this from a different perspective- stop sympathizing with him, he threw any credibility out the window when he targeted people who did no wrong and committed murder 1. And if what he says is true- as I said before, physically attacking another PD trainee (or officer) for using the "N" word is not the sign of a person who has their head on right- that's not how you manage conflict. This guy is a bad guy, no ifs, no buts, and please don't try and say "at what point would you say enough is enough?" I don't threaten killing sprees when I lose my job- regardless of if it was justified or not.
One thing I find curious is the redaction of the supposed manifesto. Ostensibly, they redacted names to protect the potential victims. Protect them from what or who? Obviously Dorner already knows who he has a grudge against. The sheer length and variety of the spew in that manifesto increases the case for him being bat shit crazy so why the redactions? Maybe The Powers That Be were worried that some of his allegations might hold water if people dug into them? Wouldn't look good for the Dept even if HIS subsequent reactions are reprehensible.
I hate conspiracy theories but this is a really odd case.
It was redacted because this guy is pro-Obama, pro-Fecalstein, and Anti-2A... it doesn't fit their agenda, he's not a fringe, racist, right wing radical.
Sorry coming in late, but guys at work (ALL pro-gun owners) actually said this guy seemed to have some legitimate gripes, and possibly got royally screwed by some other woman officer. He apparently spent years trying to clear his name, and the chief also screwed him over. I don't condone his actions by any means, and he definitely went too far. I'm just curious on the backstory on what started this rampage, since it's been building for years.
I do NOT know the details, need to read more, but maybe one of you who has read a ton the last couple days, on this guy, can you give me the synopsis?
The unfortunate part in this is we all know he won't be alive to hash out the details.
Great-Kazoo
02-08-2013, 16:27
With this, I do have to say that yes, I've been through the very scenario you described- in fact after being physically attacked while cornered the school still said I should have walked away. [facepalm]But that's oranges, and we're talking about apples here. Just because people have been killed for less still makes it wrong what this guy is doing. Without getting into too much of a debate about the King incident, Rodney King was high as a kite, driving in excess, resisting arrest, and it was decided that the cops' use of force was text book and justified, take that as you may, but I find that whole thing blown out of proportion by racial tension. You all who think that this guy was just a normal guy pushed too far and finally reached the end of his rope need to look at this from a different perspective- stop sympathizing with him, he threw any credibility out the window when he targeted people who did no wrong and committed murder 1. And if what he says is true- as I said before, physically attacking another PD trainee (or officer) for using the "N" word is not the sign of a person who has their head on right- that's not how you manage conflict. This guy is a bad guy, no ifs, no buts, and please don't try and say "at what point would you say enough is enough?" I don't threaten killing sprees when I lose my job- regardless of if it was justified or not.
It was redacted because this guy is pro-Obama, pro-Fecalstein, and Anti-2A... it doesn't fit their agenda, he's not a fringe, WHITE racist, right wing radical.
He used BUZZ words. Just like a resume something to catch the eye. IF (key word) he puts in to wiritng any and everything that will appeal to some portion of this country he got his wish. That being people ask questions, regarding him being innocent and or framed / crazy.
Once he killed non-le's his game changed and no longer has any validity regarding being wronged by the dept.
Either way do we condone the innocent killing / execution of innocent people? I know i do not, you?
In that 'wall of words' I wrote, you may have missed this part --> "Now he is harming innocents. That cannot be allowed and must be stopped. There simply is no justification for his current actions."
Of course I do not condone his actions. You may be right about him using buzz words designed to appeal to a broad audience. I've become more than a little suspicious of the entire 'manifesto' due to its manipulation. Moreover, it would seem to me to be folly to make too much of a 22-page 'manifesto' written by someone who is now on a homicidal/suicidal rampage. Still, whenever there is a tragic development such as this one, I look for 'take-aways' - what can be learned. Sometimes, it is nothing more than we need to find a more expedient method for disposing of the dregs. Sometimes, it motivates me to ask questions - of myself - as to how I might respond in similar circumstances. Whether I was duped by buzz words or not - that is what occurred in this instance. It challenged me to probe a bit of myself.
I suspect many/most of us have felt that 'authority' overstepped its bounds at some point in our lives, and I know in those instances, I always get a bit rankled. I've never gotten to the point of feeling like someone(s) took from me all that I hold dear. If that were to occur, I honestly do not know how I might react. Would I pull a 'Dorner' and seek vengeance on those I blamed? Does my lack of knowing how I would react make me unstable in some way? You see, I have witnessed first-hand that we ALL have a dark place we can get to if the circumstances warrant. We are ALL capable of things we'd rather not be public - and maybe not even admitted to ourselves. This guy - if it really is as it seems to be - got to that place and acted on it. We see members of this site mention their intentions in the event authority oversteps the boundaries they have drawn for themselves. Where that boundary is drawn is different for each of us. While I feel confident the set of facts that pushed Dorner over the edge would not have the same effect on me - a different fact pattern that resulted in my feeling hopeless and wronged and with nothing to lose and no future - that might. Can you, or anyone, honestly say different?
None of this condones his actions to go on a killing spree. And I hope nothing I wrote leads anyone to believe I condone these killings.
Problem is nutcases dont generally manage to get a bunch of security clearances and lead security forces in the Navy if you are barely holding it together. I think he is a trained individual dealing with his issues the best way he can make sense of it. Real or not, he feels betrayed and lied to, by people he was supposed to be able to trust with his life, and he has decided to fix the situation. He obviously knows he will be killed, so its equally obvious he wants to call attention to a specific set of circumstances. Sometimes, right or wrong, someone chooses to fight rather than be a victim. In his mind, he is a victim and he is fighting back. You dont have to agree with him ( I dont) , and it is not worse because he is targeting cops. Easy answer is dont be a crooked cop, dont get shot, since he seems to be going out of his way to only shoot people he feels (or has knowledge of) being dirty.
Getting a TS/TCI clearance is actually pretty damn easy in the military.. All you need is a background check and good credit.
Agreed on some points. It is not at all trivial to acquire TS/SCI. If I recall correctly, that involved a full lifestyle background investigation and comprehensive polygraph.
As for his targets, some of his warnings led me to believe he would not restrict himself to only those specifically targeted and there may be collateral damage of innocents. It made me think he intended to be indiscriminate once underway. Not sure of his current victims support that or not.
No polygraph required (employers choice). All they do is call 1 or two of your references, check your credit/debt, and make sure you're not a felon. Then you get your clearance within 6 months.
No polygraph required (employers choice). All they do is call 1 or two of your references, check your credit/debt, and make sure you're not a felon. Then you get your clearance within 6 months.
I'm confused- are you referencing the TS/SCI clearance for the military? They do a full lifestyle background check, which means face-to-face interviews with people from your hometown, as well as checking for various classes of misdemeanors. The poly depends on your job.
Or did they change the standards of the TS/SCI?
HoneyBadger
02-08-2013, 17:50
I'm confused- are you referencing the TS/SCI clearance for the military? They do a full lifestyle background check, which means face-to-face interviews with people from your hometown, as well as checking for various classes of misdemeanors. The poly depends on your job.
Or did they change the standards of the TS/SCI?
I have been FTF interviewed for a friend's TS clearance... as of last year, this is still how they do things.
No polygraph required (employers choice). All they do is call 1 or two of your references, check your credit/debt, and make sure you're not a felon. Then you get your clearance within 6 months.
Could be it is different for government contractors. I distinctly recall the TS/SCI being significantly more intrusive than a TS alone. It takes longer to complete the background investigation and the lifestyle poly is a b!tch. As you suggest, maybe active/reserve military has a more streamlined process.
I'm confused- are you referencing the TS/SCI clearance for the military? They do a full lifestyle background check, which means face-to-face interviews with people from your hometown, as well as checking for various classes of misdemeanors. The poly depends on your job.
Or did they change the standards of the TS/SCI?
When they did mine they just called my references. (I know, really?)
Could be it is different for government contractors. I distinctly recall the TS/SCI being significantly more intrusive than a TS alone. It takes longer to complete the background investigation and the lifestyle poly is a b!tch. As you suggest, maybe active/reserve military has a more streamlined process.
I would assume the military's process is much more streamlined since they have to crank them out quickly. For example, some jobs that require TS/SCI only require a few months of training before they're at a unit.
hollohas
02-08-2013, 18:00
Easy answer is dont be a crooked cop, dont get shot, since he seems to be going out of his way to only shoot people he feels (or has knowledge of) being dirty.
Two of the folks he killed weren't cops at all. That's not standing up for your rights, that's revenge.
No polygraph required (employers choice). All they do is call 1 or two of your references, check your credit/debt, and make sure you're not a felon. Then you get your clearance within 6 months.
After they send a special agent to your house and talk to all of your neighbors one by one...
When they did mine they just called my references. (I know, really?)
I would assume the military's process is much more streamlined since they have to crank them out quickly. For example, some jobs that require TS/SCI only require a few months of training before they're at a unit.
When they did mine, they did face-to-face interviews, and asked my references for references. i think they spoke with just about everyone in my hometown.
I remember several people working weeds n seeds while waiting on their clearances. It didn't matter how fast they could zoom through tech school...there were plenty of chow halls to paint or rocks to wash while waiting for that clearance.
Two of the folks he killed weren't cops at all. That's not standing up for your rights, that's revenge.
He is long past standing up for his rights. He stated that clearly in his statement. This is about payback. And as the old saying goes,
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/28825304.jpg
When they did mine, they did face-to-face interviews, and asked my references for references. i think they spoke with just about everyone in my hometown.
I remember several people working weeds n seeds while waiting on their clearances. It didn't matter how fast they could zoom through tech school...there were plenty of chow halls to paint or rocks to wash while waiting for that clearance.
I got mine during an enlistment surge so i bet that's why mine was so minimal. I think it's ridiculous how minimal it was given what the clearance can access.
Great-Kazoo
02-08-2013, 18:57
No matter how "wronged" of falsely accused he was,they have this thing called the FBI. If you truly felt you were on the short end of the stick, AND COMBINED with his skin color the FBI and or US Attorney General's office might have investigated IF there was a valid claim.
I believe we all know how this plays out. Cops 1 most wanted 0.
There are some valid points regarding how easy you or I could be labeled as Most Wanted / Armed and Highly dangerous based on 2A beliefs, combined with the O admin and state push to outlaw firearms.
DavieD55
02-08-2013, 19:37
Sure hope they catch him soon.
Byte Stryke
02-08-2013, 20:27
Sure hope they catch him soon.
For reasons of National security, the neutralization of Christopher Dorner will not be televised.
We will show you a cover story, that will be the official story. Do not question it.
You will watch it, discuss it with your mate over TV Dinners and then tune in to watch Dancing with the stars and continue with your lives.
I am from the government and I am here to help you.
DavieD55
02-08-2013, 20:31
For reasons of National security, the neutralization of Christopher Dorner will not be televised.
We will show you a cover story, that will be the official story. Do not question it.
You will watch it, discuss it with your mate over TV Dinners and then tune in to watch Dancing with the stars and continue with your lives.
I am from the government and I am here to help you.
No kidding. It'll be a story on some metrosexual with tight pants who saved a turttle from be hit by a car. Or some BS along those lines.
Kraven251
02-08-2013, 22:44
he'll probably disappear for a week and then pick off a few more and "vanish," if he's planned this as well as he was capable of, they are going to have a real problem catching him unless he gets sloppy or calls someone.
Bailey Guns
02-08-2013, 22:50
I believe we all know how this plays out. Cops 1 most wanted 0.
Except that right now the score stands at: Cops 0, most wanted 5
Kraven251
02-08-2013, 22:53
Except that right now the score stands at: Cops 0, most wanted 5
You just made me naze my lemonade. The situation isn't funny, but this was.
This guy is blood thirsty and out for revenge.. I see that score climbling a bit before they get him, or as i think, he takes his own life. He sounds like he wouldn't give the "enemy" the gratification of taking him out.
Bailey Guns
02-08-2013, 23:00
You just made me naze my lemonade. The situation isn't funny, but this was.
Didn't mean for it to be funny.
And, yeah, I'd say the chances are about 99% that he'll eat a bullet.
They won't catch him. My prediction is he kills a few more. Then vanishes for a period of time.
Wouldn't want to be a cop right now...
dwalker460
02-08-2013, 23:05
They won't catch him. My prediction is he kills a few more. Then vanishes in an official FBI/DHS Statement.
FIFY
No way. This guy is going to be the poster child for instilling fear in our police force so that when they're ordered to take away our guns and or hitler up, they do.
After all people are scared of what they can't see, and what is unknown. The more unknown the more it scares you. Hence why I'm still afraid of damn aliens.
Rooskibar03
02-10-2013, 15:56
So now we have the second instance of LO opening fire on a vehicle while looking for this nut job in CA. First it was two women, and now a white guy.
http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-74362381/
So let me get this straight. You're driving along minding your business when someone opens fire on you in your vehicle with no identification. You are armed, and return fire discover its law enforcement.
If you're lucky enough to surrender and survive the encounter are you now the criminal only for defending yourself against an out of control police force?
muddywings
02-10-2013, 16:04
Not that it really matters but I guess he went to USAF pilot training but washed out before he soloed.
Made the local news for finding some stolen cash: http://enidnews.com/localnews/x964898713/ENE-Archives-Vance-students-turn-in-lost-church-money
Couple instructor pilots remember him. (It's easier to remember then ones that wash out than the 90% that graduate...lot more paperwork)
theGinsue
02-10-2013, 16:21
I'm confused- are you referencing the TS/SCI clearance for the military? They do a full lifestyle background check, which means face-to-face interviews with people from your hometown, as well as checking for various classes of misdemeanors. The poly depends on your job.
Or did they change the standards of the TS/SCI?
DomEOD is incorrect. TheGrey is correct. I deal in this environment daily. In fact, it's more involved than what's been posted, but what TheGrey said is accurate enough for public consumption.
And, yeah, I'd say the chances are about 99% that he'll eat a bullet.
FBI has profiled him as a "malignant narcissistic personality disorder" with delusions of grandeur, so suicide is unlikely.
A photo has been released of the two officers who shot up the newspaper truck.
http://i.imgur.com/VtZGY3f.gif
A photo has been released of the two officers who shot up the newspaper truck.
http://i.imgur.com/VtZGY3f.gif[ROFL1][ROFL3]
clublights
02-10-2013, 17:12
FBI has profiled him as a "malignant narcissistic personality disorder" with delusions of grandeur, so suicide is unlikely.
He wrote in his own manifesto he is prepared to and excepts to die doing this ...
but I don't think he will eat a bullet till he is cornered... he won't be taken alive.
there is now a $1 million dollar reward on him.
BIG BEAR LAKE, Calif. (AP) - Authorities are offering a $1 million reward for information leading to the arrest of Christopher Dorner, the former Los Angeles police officer suspected in three killings who is the subject of a manhunt in Southern California.
LA Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa announced the reward at a news conference at LAPD headquarters Sunday.
Some 80 miles to the east, SWAT teams continued to scour snow-covered mountains near where the 33-year-old fugitive's charred pickup truck was discovered Thursday.
Authorities say Dorner has vowed revenge against several former LAPD colleagues whom he blames for ending his career.
ChunkyMonkey
02-10-2013, 23:19
http://now.msn.com/christopher-dorner-is-first-drone-target-on-us-soil
Fugitive alleged LAPD-killer is first drone target on U.S. soil6 hrs ago
It's official: The drone war has come home to America. Wanted fugitive Christopher Dorner, the homicidal former cop currently at war with the LAPD, has become the first known human target for airborne drones on U.S. soil. Their use was confirmed by Customs and Border Patrol spokesman Ralph DeSio, who revealed the government's fear that Dorner will make a dash for the Mexican border. The fugitive has already killed three people, according to police, and has a $1 million bounty on his head. Dorner, who has military training, is believed to be hiding in the wilderness of California's San Bernardino Mountains, where locating him without air support may be all but impossible. [Source (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/376732/Man-hunt-for-ex-soldier-who-shot-police-chief-s-daughter-and-killed-policeman)]
http://now.msn.com/christopher-dorner-is-first-drone-target-on-us-soil
[tinhat]the tin hats will love this one.
HoneyBadger
02-10-2013, 23:35
So.... I'll put a few bucks down that he is either already dead from exposure (poor survival skills) or he is nowhere near the forest where they are searching. He is probably laying low in the city.
If he planned it right, he would have planted a car in the woods that he could get to, then torch the blue truck, hop in the new car and take off. That, or build an elaborate bunker in the mountains to hide in for a few weeks.
So.... I'll put a few bucks down that he is either already dead from exposure (poor survival skills) .
i was thinking this......thell find him in the spring when the snow melts
edit MOD
I'm a little torn on this 1 mil reward of tax payer money. I question if this would be offered if he was targeting someone other than law enforcement. Would or should it make a difference? Any thoughts?
I'm a little torn on this 1 mil reward of tax payer money. I question if this would be offered if he was targeting someone other than law enforcement. Would or should it make a difference? Any thoughts?
What makes you think the reward is funded by taxpayers? I recall reading somewhere the reward money was "donated." If so, would be interesting to know by whom.
Edit to Add. This is from the CNN article:
The offer -- raised in conjunction with businesses, private donors and community groups -- is "the largest ever offered to our knowledge," Los Angeles Police Chief Charlie Beck said.
Source: http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/10/us/lapd-attacks/index.html?iid=article_sidebar
Not torn anymore then. Thanks
They have someone "pinned down"... On CNN now
liberty19
02-12-2013, 16:16
fugitive-ex-cop-exchanges-fire-with-authorities-ap-source-says (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/12/fugitive-ex-cop-exchanges-fire-with-authorities-ap-source-says/)
Let's see how long this takes. Hopefully no more good guys get hurt.
liberty19
02-12-2013, 16:22
I mean good guys. Fixed. I have been spending too much time on my computer. Thank you HBAR!
SuperiorDG
02-12-2013, 16:26
This is great, we get to watch the live feed from the drone above.
http://video.foxnews.com/video-live-streaming.html?video_id=1155606216001
2 LEO wounded
And now one reported has died
Who gets to choose which ones are the good guys?
Who gets to choose which ones are the good guys?
The history books
Who gets to choose which ones are the good guys?
The history books
My question is, what if they're all bad guys? [shithitsfan]
jackthewall81
02-12-2013, 17:33
Purely subjecrive
Wonder how long it'll be before they send in an Apache to level the cabin.....
BushMasterBoy
02-12-2013, 17:36
Tear gas grenades. Unless he has a gas mask. I got a bad feeling he is going to die there.
Just reported one of the wounded has died.
hghclsswhitetrsh
02-12-2013, 17:44
Wonder how long it'll be before they send in an newly approved for usage, drone to level the cabin.....
Sorry Rondog, hate to correct a man...
Live feed - http://www.radioreference.com/apps/audio/?action=wp&feedId=8710
Anyone think he will be ALLOWED to make it out of this alive?
I doubt it.
Dorner is believed to be armed with "assault weapons"...
It never gets old...
Yup. I expected a little more out of him. He'll come out in a bag.
unless there are non combatants in the cabin. he will die there. If they will shoot up an innocent womans truck that is the wrong brand, this guy is ready to assume room temperature.
picking big bear as the place to ditch your truck and hold up is stupid. downtown in some town would have been better.
clublights
02-12-2013, 17:56
picking big bear as the place to ditch your truck and hold up is stupid. downtown in some town would have been better.
Supposedly the truck broke an axle... He didn't pick the location if that is true.
sellersm
02-12-2013, 17:57
The history books
The victor always gets to write the history.
With all the mention he made of his unconventional tactics and training, I would have suspected the burnt truck to be a decoy. Why the fuck would you deliberately advertise your location, in an area easily searched and with few other people? I could see lighting the truck up and then making back to the city as a diversion. I guess it just speaks toward the general wackedness of his mental state.
blacklabel
02-12-2013, 18:10
With all the mention he made of his unconventional tactics and training, I would have suspected the burnt truck to be a decoy. Why the fuck would you deliberately advertise your location, in an area easily searched and with few other people? I could see lighting the truck up and then making back to the city as a diversion. I guess it just speaks toward the general wackedness of his mental state.
To destroy evidence? It works on NCIS, right?
Based on what they're showing on the live feed, it looks to me like they're going to try and close this out before nightfall.
Looks like it's coming down now, cabin in flames
blacklabel
02-12-2013, 18:36
Ahh, yes, the burn 'em out tactic.
they call that "the waco"
they call that "the waco"
Military channel aired a "An assault on Waco" last night. Thought the timing was kind of ironic.
DeusExMachina
02-12-2013, 18:46
Is setting fire to a building the suspect is in a standard operating procedure?
Is setting fire to a building the suspect is in a standard operating procedure?
It's usually declared accidental from the use of tear gas canisters.
ChunkyMonkey
02-12-2013, 18:50
Is setting fire to a building the suspect is in a standard operating procedure?
Yes, it's right below shoot the crap out of your paper girls.
how hot do those tear gas canisters get?
So...I guess we won't get the opportunity so hear him spill the beans on the LAPDs dirty laundry. Who would have guessed?
I have a friend that saw a Drone come in on the house.
Tracks leading away from cabin, dude may have slipped away.
LAPD
Lowsey Ass Police Dept.
And he did spill the beans, and they made sure they deleted his blogs, emails, social media etc. they want him SILENCED. nothing more.
blacklabel
02-12-2013, 19:05
I have a friend that saw a Drone come in on the house.
Buy stock in tin foil!
Ahh, yes, the burn 'em out tactic.
I saw janet"I don't have low T" reno on site.[ROFL1]
If LAPD is willing to shoot up newspaper delivery women on a public street, I suspect getting Dorner alive isn't on their agenda.
wARmachine15
02-12-2013, 19:39
Dorner got Waco'd!
Goodburbon
02-12-2013, 19:44
Yep. Waco
They're assuming he shot himself and set the cabin on fire.
Kraven251
02-12-2013, 19:59
I'm assuming the cabin burned down, and he didn't.
blacklabel
02-12-2013, 19:59
They're assuming he shot himself and set the cabin on fire.
Yeah.... not going to believe that for a minute.
Rucker61
02-12-2013, 19:59
Is setting fire to a building the suspect is in a standard operating procedure?
This is the LAPD. So, yes.
Did I see something about Fox having their own drone to cover the event? Guess that's to be expected as the "new thing" in journalism, cheaper than helicopters I reckon.
I have video of the FBI shooting into the house where Dorner was sitting and knitting a sweater for his mother. You can see Dorner raising his hands as they fire on him and he was clearly not armed or resisting. That was just before the napalm drone came in and pounded him.
BushMasterBoy
02-12-2013, 20:15
I have video of the FBI shooting into the house where Dorner was sitting and knitting a sweater for his mother. You can see Dorner raising his hands as they fire on him and he was clearly not armed or resisting. That was just before the napalm drone came in and pounded him.
The reason they killed Dorner...he was knitting an Afghan!
I haven't seen anything about this, except this thread. Are they saying he burned in the cabin then?
blacklabel
02-12-2013, 21:09
From CNN.com
[Updated at 10:02 p.m. ET] A body believed to be that of Christopher Dorner has been pulled from the cabin, multiple law enforcement sources tell CNN contributor Tom Fuentes. The sources say they were told this by LAPD.
BushMasterBoy
02-12-2013, 21:15
I think they are saying he set fire to the cabin and shot himself. They also said they recovered his body. All the reports seem so vague and poorly written, seemingly the norm in todays media.
TEAMRICO
02-12-2013, 21:54
Tis is one way to not have to listen Obama give the SOTU!
ahhh if Obama had a cousin in the Navy he would........never mind.
Burn in hell you POS.
clworth22
02-12-2013, 22:33
Initial news reporting looks like he is dead from fire. Tear gas was mentioned in report. Weird he died of fire similar to the Waco incident. Flame me if you want I don't give a shit. I'm not saying he was innocent/guilty, but the Media instantly wanted him labeled as guilty and we will never know without a trial.
Rooskibar03
02-12-2013, 22:35
Wrong. Police chief confirmed building is hot and no one in or out. No confirmation of anything.
Next press conference tomorrow 8am.
Link? If you're going to make a claim back it up.
SideShow Bob
02-12-2013, 22:38
Already mentioned here..........http://www.ar-15.co/threads/88335-Dorner-in-shootout-with-police.
In other words, REPOST.......
clworth22
02-12-2013, 22:40
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/12/live-police-believe-they-have-cornered-lapd-murder-suspect-furious-gun-fight-raging-right-now/
jhood001
02-12-2013, 22:41
All the reports seem so vague and poorly written, seemingly the norm in todays media.
It takes time to craft the perfect story and get it approved.
HoneyBadger
02-12-2013, 22:47
LAPD give order to "burn that motherf*cking house down"
cNk-bV40XMc
clworth22
02-12-2013, 22:50
Well not a repot Sideshow Bob, my post was saying he was dead vs your post you claimed that was a 'shoot out' with a timeline.
Is setting fire to a building the suspect is in a standard operating procedure?
yes in LA. they also shoot trucks full of people because they are trucks. they can't shoot guys walking around with ak-47s in the head, one of them got tired of it and killed himself.
What a surprise... he's dead, and whatever evidence he may have had with him is up in smoke.
USAFGopherMike
02-12-2013, 23:52
We all knew this was coming. How did the house get lit on fire? Tear gas can?
DavieD55
02-13-2013, 00:12
ahhh if Obama had a cousin in the Navy he would........never mind.
[ROFL2]LMAO
We all knew this was coming. How did the house get lit on fire? Tear gas can?
pretty sure they lit it up.
Colorado Osprey
02-13-2013, 08:01
"Burners" aka teak gas canisters are known to cause fires and the best way to set a fire and call it something else.
Being an x-LEO I am horrified by how the LAPD is operating.
This was a simple execution without trial.
I've been on man hunts for someone who killed a LEO. There was never the intention of executing them... it was always to bring them in.
This is just wrong people.... there was onlyl intent to just kill this guy-proof being the shoot up of the truck and the order to "Burn the Mother F***** down"
WACO 2.0 (We Ain't Coming Out--- What A Cook Out)
Is Big Bear even in LAPD's jurisdiction?
two shoes
02-13-2013, 10:38
Is Big Bear even in LAPD's jurisdiction?
Big Bear is in San Bernardino County....Not Los Angeles County... Look towards the bottom..
http://www.socalequest.com/images/ca-out31.gif
ThunderSquirrel
02-13-2013, 10:52
They said they found his ID with a charred body. But wasn't there a report that they already found his ID and badge at a bus station?
I have 2 theories on this-
1- He's not as good as he claimed or thought, and he died inside the cabin.
2- He is as good as he claimed, didn't hold up in a cabin but somehow got away and will continue with his vendetta.
Only time will tell...
sneakerd
02-13-2013, 11:13
Doesn't really matter how good you are when you are holed up in a chinsy wooden cabin surrounded by well-armed and pissed off LE.
Bailey Guns
02-13-2013, 11:30
Doesn't really matter how good you are when you are holed up in a chinsy wooden cabin surrounded by well-armed and pissed off LE with an armored vehicle capable of tearing down your cabin.
kidicarus13
02-13-2013, 12:08
They said they found his ID with a charred body. But wasn't there a report that they already found his ID and badge at a bus station?
Police ID/badge found at bus station or wherever and California DL found in cabin.
I have 2 theories on this-
1- He's not as good as he claimed or thought, and he died inside the cabin.
2- He is as good as he claimed, didn't hold up in a cabin but somehow got away and will continue with his vendetta.
Only time will tell...
#1 is the correct answer! You tinfoil hat people that come up with all this other nonsense make me laugh [ROFL2] Of course nothing could be as it appears, that would be to simple and then what would you have to fantisize about? I wonder if Bush ordered the Twin Towers to be blown up? Or was it Jimmy Hoffa who is still alive?
#1 is the correct answer! You tinfoil hat people that come up with all this other nonsense make me laugh [ROFL2] Of course nothing could be as it appears, that would be to simple and then what would you have to fantisize about? I wonder if Bush ordered the Twin Towers to be blown up? Or was it Jimmy Hoffa who is still alive?
I don't own a tin foil hat, and usually never borrow one from a friend... I just posed two theories- of them I am inclined to agree that #1 is correct. This guy talks a big game, but when the rubber meets the road he's not John Rambo or John McClain.
SuperiorDG
02-13-2013, 13:12
This guy was not Bob Lee Swagger. He was in the Navy and a Cop. Serving on a ship and sitting in a police car don't make you a bad ass.
Bailey Guns
02-13-2013, 15:37
And, yeah, I'd say the chances are about 99% that he'll eat a bullet.
I'm gonna stick to my original prediction. Looks like the PD/SO had him cornered and he just didn't want to be arrested.
Great-Kazoo
02-13-2013, 16:45
I'm gonna stick to my original prediction. Looks like the PD/SO had him cornered and he just didn't want to be arrested.
Granted. however
TINFOIL HAT TIME: IF his body was charred how the hell does a Plastic DL ON HIS BODY not be melted. OR it's some homeless guy who finally was able to stay warm at night.
You be the Judge, You be the Jury.
Bailey Guns
02-13-2013, 16:54
I'd say that scenario was a possibility. However, from what I've heard, witnesses (in addition to the LE folks) said they heard the single gunshot. Then the fire. If he wasn't in the cabin why would a hostage not give up or fire a shot? That doesn't make sense.
I think it was Dorner. I've also seen incredible bits and pieces of people's lives survive house fires. So if the DL was in his wallet with his body on top of it I'd say it's definitely possible it survived the fire.
Footage from the cabin shootout:
http://i.imgur.com/gDSUTBH.gif
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