View Full Version : Juan McCain
Do you think Juan can beat an Obama & Clinton ticket?
I would start heading to the Ready Room.
I think we are headed to hard times my friends, reguardless of what corrupt party takes the White House. Both seem hell bent on Cap and Trade, open boarders ect.
westy1970
06-05-2008, 10:20
I agree. I am really having a hard time with this one. Do I vote my candidate or do I vote McCain so guns don't get banned forever? Buy mags and receivers now.
Unless something really bad comes out about Obama I don't see an Obama/Clinton ticket losing to McCain no matter who is his V.P. candidate.
If Obama wins I plan to buy another firearm on both November 5th and on January 20th.
I don't think they'll run on the same ticket. I mean, can you imagine the clusterfuck that would ensue with Obama/Hillary AND Bill walking around the white house? He'll probably offer her the spot, if she promises to decline it. While their agendas are similar to one another, I just don't see how it could work out for either one. Obama (along with the rest of us) want to just see the Clinton's gone for good, this is his chance to distance himself.
The other side of the coin is she stays in, or sits the whole thing out from here. Obama loses the campaign, and she no doubt runs again in 2012 and cries how the Dem's screwed up again in 08' by giving him the nod (which they did in my eyes). This is her sure ticket to the white house in 2012.
Of course i'm just speculating here. The scary part is a Obama/Clinton ticket is probably the surest thing for the White House, but Obama doesn't want to be pressured into it, and Hillary doesn't want the job.
Vote Obama and it's the sure trip to socialism, it's like losing your head, this country is finished. Vote for McCain and take the scenic trip and it's like losing a hand, but at least we can still function.
Regardless of what happens, life will go on. Stock up on what you can afford now, and hope to weather the storm. The thing we do have going for us is the Heller case, that looks like it could be favorable. That would surely tie the hands of the next POTUS if it were to be very clear about the 2A. We also have a lot of other problems with this country and economy where we can hope there isn't much that could be done within a single term. And there's always the hope Obama is the next Carter, and a whole lot of nothing gets done.
theGinsue
06-05-2008, 23:06
Hmmm. Perhaps Hillary will approach McCain to run as his V.P.
She'll promise him all of her Dem supporters votes which will get McCain elected - then before the inaugeration she'll appear to him without her make-up and scare him into a fatal heart attack so she can take the office.
Hey, it's possible. (That and I'm working on getting my post count up!)
I never could stand McCain. The issues that make up my mind are the war on terror and Supreme Court judges. McCain is the only option, IMO.
If you think McCain will be cooperating with the Dems, Obama would be leading the charge.
Obama is a political amateur. Now that he's the candidate, you'll learn more about the shady individuals he surrounds himself with. Obama is entirely about the cult of personality and not substance. Obama can say nothing better than anyone when he's on a teleprompter. If he debates McCain, he'll look like the bumbling amateur that he is.
The party was split pretty evenly between Clinton and Obama. That's because they were about equally polarizing to the party. That's also an advantage for McCain.
Obama can say nothing better than anyone
Ain't that the truth. It's amazing that this country could nominate a junior senator with no experience and no proven track record to become the next POTUS based on a slogan. And people wonder why this country is going down the crapper...
Experienced VS Inexperienced.
After being in an US senete for 4 years, he wants to run for a president. It is like some kid who has 4years of intern experience with GE running for Board Of Director at GE.
3.5 years.
...and he's been running for President for 2 of them.
theGinsue
06-06-2008, 23:17
Ain't that the truth. It's amazing that this country could nominate a junior senator with no experience and no proven track record to become the next POTUS based on a slogan. And people wonder why this country is going down the crapper...
This brings to mind a quote from the movie The Matrix:
Cypher: "I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nine years, you know what I realize? Ignorance is bliss."
3.5 years...and he's been running for President for 2 of them.
In my opinion that level of experience doesn't even qualify him to work as the night shift assistant manager of your local burger joint.
On a side note, on just tried to blow Gman's avatar off my screen.....twice. :D
35 years of age and US born. Obama is more than qualified.
Don't you want change man, like big oil is making money of the backs of poor orphaned undocumented workers. Global warming is killing polar bears. African Americans are down trodden. Medical care is out of control, millions of US Americans are dying in the streets. The poor are dying of obesity. It's time for a change comrades.. I mean dudes
HBARleatherneck
06-07-2008, 19:38
ya know
35?? he is 45.. and change what kind of change??/ He has yet to give a reasonable plan to anything that he hasn't had to backpeddle and Change....
westy1970
06-08-2008, 19:24
http://www.bobbarr2008.com/?gclid=COT2xeGa5pMCFQaYQAodv3T-WQ
35?? he is 45.. and change what kind of change??/ He has yet to give a reasonable plan to anything that he hasn't had to backpeddle and Change....
Age and residence restriction for POTUS.
Also I am voting for Bob Barr
westy1970
06-08-2008, 19:46
Yeah, after giving it a lot of thought, I decided to vote my conscience(sp?). I have always voted the lesser of 2 evils until the Governors race 2 years ago and voted for who I thought would do the best job. I know by voting for Barr I may be handing the race to Obama, but it will put us in a better position 4 years down the road when he has screwed us even worse than Bush did. I know by then I will be unemployed and there will be no middle class, but we have to sacrifice like our founders did.
US Constitution, Article II
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
Ron Paul....
Is he getting the Rep Nomination? Check out Bob Barr same platform.
Richard K
06-09-2008, 14:53
A vote for anyone other than McCain is a vote for Obama. Have you seen Obama's voting record on gun control issues? He has repeatedly voted to establish more strict controls on gun ownership and is against individuals owning guns at all.
Richard K
06-09-2008, 14:57
A vote for anyone other than McCain is a vote for Obama. Have you seen Obama's voting record on gun control issues? He has repeatedly voted to establish more strict controls on gun ownership and is against individuals owning guns at all.
Per the NRA:
On the Second Amendment, Don’t Believe Obama!
Friday, June 06, 2008
The presidential primary season is finally over, and it is now time for gun owners to take a careful look at just where apparent nominee Barack Obama stands on issues related to the Second Amendment. During the primaries, Obama tried to hide behind vague statements of support for “sportsmen” or unfounded claims of general support for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.
But his real record, based on votes taken, political associations, and long standing positions, shows that Barack Obama is a serious threat to Second Amendment liberties. Don’t listen to his campaign rhetoric! Look instead to what he has said and done during his entire political career.
FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.
FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.
FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.
FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.
FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.
FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people who use firearms in self-defense.
FACT: Barack Obama supports requiring law-abiding gun owners to register their firearms.
FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case.
FACT: Barack Obama wants to eliminate your Right to Carry.
FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and “research.”
FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.
FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.
FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.
FACT: Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.
FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.
FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods.
FACT: Barack Obama supports repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits information on gun traces collected by the BATFE from being used in reckless lawsuits against firearm dealers and manufacturers.
FACT: Barack Obama supports “one-gun-a-month” sales restrictions.
FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on inexpensive handguns.
FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money is going to police departments for replacement equipment.
FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.
Americans I guess want business as usual. Juan is for cap and trade. Global warming ect. You have more than 2A. You won't be able to afford guns if either get in. The economy is tanking both will double tap it in the head.
If you vote for Juan you let the Republicans know it's okay to be leftist.
"I'm outta here one way to Belize please"
Congrats! You've just joined a large disgruntled group of people who say they are leaving but don't have the balls to actually go.
See you tomorrow...[Abused]
Richard K
06-09-2008, 17:11
Americans I guess want business as usual. Juan is for cap and trade. Global warming ect. You have more than 2A. You won't be able to afford guns if either get in. The economy is tanking both will double tap it in the head.
If you vote for Juan you let the Republicans know it's okay to be leftist.
Do you honestly believe that by voting other than democrap or republican you'll have an impact and not just waste your vote?
"I'm outta here one way to Belize please"
Congrats! You've just joined a large disgruntled group of people who say they are leaving but don't have the balls to actually go.
See you tomorrow...[Abused]
We have a 5 year plan to leave. Enjoy the train wreck which is America
As far as wasting a vote I think we all have and started this train down the wrong track.
And to whom ever tries to say I'm not a Patriot, go screw you and the horse you road in on. I am a disabled combat veteran. I served proudly and love this country, but my fears have come true. Marxism via Global warming is killing this Country and short of violence, it's just waiting for the fat lady(gravitational challenged female) to sing.
Montana is still an option, I'll wait to see what the Super Court says on the DC gun case.
5 year plan to Belize huh, I hear the beaches are nice. Is this true?
What are the basic laws on gun ownership in Belize? How are weapons classified(shotgun, rifle, handgun)? Is ammunition registered?
Belizean laws are very restrictive and even harder to imoprt your own weapons. Certain calibers are totally illegal. There are a couple of shooting ranges in the country. The cost is $500 per permit per weapon. A single shot 20 gauge sells for over 500 BZE. 9 mil only allowed pistol caliber. 16 and 20 gauge shotgun and forget rifles altogether.
You have two kinds of licenses. Personal protection and farm use (mostly shotguns.) Anything bigger than a 9mm is classified as prohibited except shotguns of course, unless they are sawed off then they are definitely prohibited. Ammunition is not licensed but to buy ammunition one must produce a license. Personal firearm license is $75 per annum while farm license is $5 per annum. Recently they began offering licenses for up to three years. Before, one had to license every year on your birthday.
It is illegal to take firearms or ammunition into or out of Belize.
westy1970
06-09-2008, 18:42
Do you honestly believe that by voting other than democrap or republican you'll have an impact and not just waste your vote?
Is it more of a waste to vote for McCain, knowing the media has served up the country to Obama and McCain will never win, or to vote for who you want? I would rather see a viable 3rd party that vote for either of the open border Communists that are running. A vote for McCain is a wasted vote the same as a vote for Obama is a wasted vote. They are both hell bent on destroying the country I love and served.
Aloha_Shooter
06-09-2008, 19:38
Yeah, after giving it a lot of thought, I decided to vote my conscience(sp?). I have always voted the lesser of 2 evils until the Governors race 2 years ago and voted for who I thought would do the best job. I know by voting for Barr I may be handing the race to Obama, but it will put us in a better position 4 years down the road when he has screwed us even worse than Bush did.
People that thought this way in 1992 ended up sticking us with Billy Boy for EIGHT YEARS. If Obama wins, all of his failures will be blamed on Bush even if that blame requires serious distortions of reality. Don't bother buying your weapons and ammo in November, Obama will make his ban and mandatory registration retroactive.
Obama also voted 94 x's to raise taxes...
we are truly in a delima with the candidates we have. However if McC, picks a great VP maybe he will expire in the first year or so and Bam we get something better...
cleaner72
06-09-2008, 21:19
We have a 5 year plan to leave. Enjoy the train wreck which is America
As far as wasting a vote I think we all have and started this train down the wrong track.
And to whom ever tries to say I'm not a Patriot, go screw you and the horse you road in on. I am a disabled combat veteran. I served proudly and love this country, but my fears have come true. Marxism via Global warming is killing this Country and short of violence, it's just waiting for the fat lady(gravitational challenged female) to sing.
Montana is still an option, I'll wait to see what the Super Court says on the DC gun case.
no offense but dont let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.
If we really want to save our country, and I mean REALLY want it, we need to do whatever is necessary to save it...at this point it hasnt reached that level, but I can see it reaching it in my life time. Just remember, today George Washington and the rest of the revolutionary army would be considered terrorists by our current government.
Richard K
06-09-2008, 21:49
Is it more of a waste to vote for McCain, knowing the media has served up the country to Obama and McCain will never win, or to vote for who you want? I would rather see a viable 3rd party that vote for either of the open border Communists that are running. A vote for McCain is a wasted vote the same as a vote for Obama is a wasted vote. They are both hell bent on destroying the country I love and served.
So, in other words you don't care if it's Obama or McCain who wins in November. A third party candidate's chances are nil. It's noble to be idealistist but far better to be practical. Wake up and get your head out of the sand. You post on a gun forum but don't care enough about 2A to vote for the most gun friendly candidate but will throw your vote away in protest, smart.
I won't let the door hit me in the ass, enjoy the merge with Mexico and Canada.
westy1970
06-10-2008, 10:41
So, in other words you don't care if it's Obama or McCain who wins in November. A third party candidate's chances are nil. It's noble to be idealistist but far better to be practical. Wake up and get your head out of the sand. You post on a gun forum but don't care enough about 2A to vote for the most gun friendly candidate but will throw your vote away in protest, smart.
Obama won the election when he decided to run for Senate. I saw that years ago and knew he was the next dictator. There are many other issues than the 2nd. If I were voting on a singular issue, I would vote for McCain. I am looking to the future and where the country is going to be in 10 years. A vote for McCain is a vote for open borders and fewer jobs in America. Go ahead and vote your one issue and sink us even further into Mexico. When we are part of the Mexican Union gun rights won't matter at all.
westy1970
06-10-2008, 10:42
BTW, thanks to SSF for an engaging thread. I love these kind of discussions.
Richard K
06-10-2008, 12:08
Obama won the election when he decided to run for Senate. I saw that years ago and knew he was the next dictator. There are many other issues than the 2nd. If I were voting on a singular issue, I would vote for McCain. I am looking to the future and where the country is going to be in 10 years. A vote for McCain is a vote for open borders and fewer jobs in America. Go ahead and vote your one issue and sink us even further into Mexico. When we are part of the Mexican Union gun rights won't matter at all.
It's far more than one issue. Did you happen to listen to his speech after winning enough electoral votes, wherein he pledged to gut our military and de-commison all of our arsenal of nukes, withdraw from South Korea and rely on diplomacy? Or establish a national healthcare system? Ask someone in England how well socialized medecine works. Until recently we owned a medical biliing service and you'd be amazed at the number of doctors who have pledged to quit the field of medicine should socialized medicine become a reality. Ask your doctor what he thinks of Medicare, chances are he won't accept Medicare patients.
westy1970
06-10-2008, 12:30
And IF he does any of that he puts our Country at a severe risk. He will not have the support he needs to accomplish any of it, save banning guns and a weak attempt at health care which will fail in the end. I stand by my decision to vote on the side of liberty. I do not believe McCain stands a chance of winning. Everyone I know who is a Democrat was pulling for Clinton and they are now voting Obama. He was handed the Presidency a long time ago. So, if my vote is wasted no matter what, I would rather vote my beliefs rather than the lesser of 2 evils.
Is the Khmer Rouge in the house.
You don't get it. No one wants Revolution, that's the last thing I would want. My children would suffer as all Americans would. It would be a horrible plight on this Countries history.
We want a CONSERVATIVE in the White House. Not someone who attacked the 1A with the Dems. Wants open boarders. Slams a fellow Republican for being a successful business man. Juan believes global warming is man made. Juan wants to punish oil companies for making money. BTW the Federal Gov makes more on a gallon of gas than the stock holders do.
Juan McCain is not a CONSERVATIVE. So as a CONSERVATIVE I will vote for a CONSRVATIVE. I will vote for for BOB BARR a CONSRVATIVE. Not a wasted vote. A vote for whom I think would do the best for OUR Country.
Juan has not reached out to the CONSERVATIVES and feels he can win without us, so we shall see. He is moderate at best. I am a CONSERVATIVE. I'm a Catholic and go to a Catholic church not a Baptist, same concept as the voting thing. You vote for your guy and leave us CONSERVATIVES to our own dumb idealisms.
So continue to rant about Juan, it doesn't change these:
McCain Fiengold Gag Bill
McCain was a co-sponsor of the DREAM Act, which would grant legal status to illegal immigrants’ kids who graduate from high school. In 2007, to make the far-right base happy, he voted against the bill he had taken the lead on.(Edward M. Kennedy and John McCain )
Richard K
06-10-2008, 14:46
Is the Khmer Rouge in the house.
You don't get it. No one wants Revolution, that's the last thing I would want. My children would suffer as all Americans would. It would be a horrible plight on this Countries history.
We want a CONSERVATIVE in the White House. Not someone who attacked the 1A with the Dems. Wants open boarders. Slams a fellow Republican for being a successful business man. Juan believes global warming is man made. Juan wants to punish oil companies for making money. BTW the Federal Gov makes more on a gallon of gas than the stock holders do.
Juan McCain is not a CONSERVATIVE. So as a CONSERVATIVE I will vote for a CONSRVATIVE. I will vote for for BOB BARR a CONSRVATIVE. Not a wasted vote. A vote for whom I think would do the best for OUR Country.
Juan has not reached out to the CONSERVATIVES and feels he can win without us, so we shall see. He is moderate at best. I am a CONSERVATIVE. I'm a Catholic and go to a Catholic church not a Baptist, same concept as the voting thing. You vote for your guy and leave us CONSERVATIVES to our own dumb idealisms.
So continue to rant about Juan, it doesn't change these:
McCain Fiengold Gag Bill
McCain was a co-sponsor of the DREAM Act, which would grant legal status to illegal immigrants’ kids who graduate from high school. In 2007, to make the far-right base happy, he voted against the bill he had taken the lead on.(Edward M. Kennedy and John McCain )
Have a nice life. I'm going to refuse to waste more common sense on someone who has been educated beyond their intelligence.
You too have a nice life and enjoy the GOP. I'm sure they'll return to their conservative roots if you continue to support their socialist agenda. You can take most of my rights and tax me to hell, but don't dare touch my guns! Sound's good to me.
westy1970
06-10-2008, 14:54
Look, you both are obviously just on a rant of the same failed Repulican policies that took us down the path we are on. I gave Bush my vote 2 times and it has led our country to a war in Iraq, soaring energy costs, the worst liberty violations of history in this country and open border anarchy. If Obama gets elected then our country is ruined, if McCain gets elected our country is ruined. I am not whining, I am stating facts. I do more than pretend to love this country, I served for 10 years. I have seen combat on 3 continents and have seen the direction this country is taking. It is time for us to take the country back by using the Constitution and voting for our beliefs. The Republican party abandoned us a long time ago. McCain is for letting terrorists into our country, cap & trade and will do nothing to stop the Dem's from passing anti gun legislation as he is in their camp most of the time. He will say whatever needs to be said. Our founding father's warned us against a 2 party system saying it will destroy the Republic. By clinging to your misguided belief that McCain is the savior of all that is Holy you are activly participating in this country's demise.
As for Revolution, I will vote and vote for the little guy, who happens to be a conservative. Our Country was founded on the little guy and needs to go back to personal freedom, not what the largest government tells me is my freedom. BTW, McCain has said nothing about smaller Government.
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/
It's all there in his website.
Again, if there were only 2 candidates I would vote the lesser of 2 evils, but since we are graced with freedom of choice, I choose Conservative, not liberal light.
I gave Bush my vote 2 times and it has led our country to a war in Iraq, soaring energy costs, the worst liberty violations of history in this country and open border anarchy. I don't think you're giving enough credit to the Democrat Congress.
Richard K
06-11-2008, 09:47
Look, you both are obviously just on a rant of the same failed Repulican policies that took us down the path we are on. I gave Bush my vote 2 times and it has led our country to a war in Iraq, soaring energy costs, the worst liberty violations of history in this country and open border anarchy. If Obama gets elected then our country is ruined, if McCain gets elected our country is ruined. I am not whining, I am stating facts. I do more than pretend to love this country, I served for 10 years. I have seen combat on 3 continents and have seen the direction this country is taking. It is time for us to take the country back by using the Constitution and voting for our beliefs. The Republican party abandoned us a long time ago. McCain is for letting terrorists into our country, cap & trade and will do nothing to stop the Dem's from passing anti gun legislation as he is in their camp most of the time. He will say whatever needs to be said. Our founding father's warned us against a 2 party system saying it will destroy the Republic. By clinging to your misguided belief that McCain is the savior of all that is Holy you are activly participating in this country's demise.
As for Revolution, I will vote and vote for the little guy, who happens to be a conservative. Our Country was founded on the little guy and needs to go back to personal freedom, not what the largest government tells me is my freedom. BTW, McCain has said nothing about smaller Government.
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/
It's all there in his website.
Again, if there were only 2 candidates I would vote the lesser of 2 evils, but since we are graced with freedom of choice, I choose Conservative, not liberal light.
Let me say this to make my position clear. If I thought Barr had a snowball's chance of winning, I'd vote for him as well. The sad truth is, he doesn't and I'll not throw my vote away voting for him. I can respect idealism but I'm being practical. A vote for Barr is a vote for Obama and Obama scares the crap out of me.
What do you guys think wouldve happened if Tancredo had gone all the way?
Richard K
06-11-2008, 14:45
What do you guys think wouldve happened if Tancredo had gone all the way?
Given the current choices, I'd have voted for him in a heartbeat, however, he's considered by many to be too radical and, therefore, I doubt he could have gone all the way.
libertyordeath
06-11-2008, 15:57
first off, i can count on one hand the mccain policies with which i take major issue (they’ve already been thoroughly discussed). with obama, to count his bad policies it takes both hands, both feet, and the appendages of half a dozen friends. thompson was my 1st choice. he dropped out, so i caucused for paul. barr has great principles, but he will not win. we live in a 2 party system. disagree? name me one federal office where a 3rd party candidate has won, and neither lieberman or sanders count because they were previously elected democrats for their current positions.
of course everyone can vote however they choose. so, feel free to take the ideological high road and vote for barr (even though you realize hillary has a better chance of winning president than he does) while you strap on the shackles of the greater of two evils. or vote for obama out of spite to teach the gop a lesson: that we won't tolerate a leftist and sellout as our <sarcasm> conservative </sarcasm> nominee. but before you do, stick with me here and try to have an attention span greater than a high school cheerleader in calculus class, and think back to how well that worked in 2006. we sure taught those republicans a lesson, didn't we?
prior to the 2006 election:
1) consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) the unemployment rate was 4.5%.
after the dems have controlled congress for nearly 2 years:
1) consumer confidence has plummeted;
2) regular gasoline soared to $4.00 a gallon;
3) unemployment rose to 5% (a 10% increase)
4) americans have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses);
5) americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;
6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.
think about it this way: let's say your house was on fire. who would you rather have show up, a third-class firefighter or a first-class arson? fdr enacted policies and welfare programs in his new deal that have outlived reagan. how much damage can obama do in 4 years? i'm not sure, but put me down in the column under doesn't want to find out.
so vote your conscience. or vote your spite. or vote mccain and cross your fingers that he'll at least appoint judges who take the constitution literally; move healthcare towards privatization/personalization; veto any 2A infringement garbage; and not totally destroy the country with campaign finance reform, sieve-like borders, and green taxes. heck he may even reach across the aisle to the other side for his VP... and pick a conservative?
just my $0.02.
Unemployment jumped from 5 to 5.5% last month with only 49K more unemployment claims. Students have graduated or are out for the summer and are looking for jobs. You can blame the last big increase in the minimum wage for the lack of most entry level jobs.
libertyordeath
06-12-2008, 09:43
good point gman, but college students graduating is only half the picture. the real question is: why are there fewer entry-level jobs? bear with me here, i promise to have a point (maybe even a good one) by the end of this post.
let’s get started, college graduates entering the labor force are classified as "new entrants" (or if they were part of the labor force prior to college, they would be part of "reentrants") into the labor force. taking a look at the may 2008 numbers (http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t08.htm) we see:
change between 4/08-5/08 (federal stats)
increase in new entrants: 204,000
increase in reentrants: 326,000
increase in job losers and completed temp jobs: 268,000
increase in job leavers: 20,000
so let's ignore the job leavers and let’s assume that half the “reentrants” are college graduates (previously employed before college) and the other half are from other sources (mothers going back to work when their kids start grade school, retired guys who decide to pick up a walmart greeter job, etc.) - therefore we'll just compare “new entrants” to “job losers.” bottom line is you're absolutely right, gman, that the cyclic nature of college grads entering the labor force slightly skew the most recent data. but the "new entrant" college grads account for less than half of the increase in may's statistics. we can, but i'm really not looking to debate numbers - we're all on the same side here. the point i wanted to make with unemployment has to do with the ONLY "accomplishment" the democrat congress made last year: increasing minimum wage. now let's get to that question of why there is a lack of entry level jobs...
without going into a long free markets economics lesson (because i presume most of us here lean libertarian and we get economics and the tie it has to our political climate), let's role play. say you're a small business owner, so you have an operating budget. one of the line items on that budget is payroll. now let's say i'm big government, i pay you a visit one day, and i decide you're mistreating your employees. i demand you raise everyone's wages by 30% (i say everyone because you can't just bump $5.15/hr employees up to $6.70/hr without bumping the angering the $6.70/employees, so you bump them up to $8.70, which upsets the $8.70 employees, etc. etc.). so now you've a dilemma. you have a fixed amount of money to fund your payroll line item, but i just told you that you have to increase every employee's wage by 30%. how do you stay in business and avoid bankruptcy? that's right, one way would be a layoff of 30% of your work force (of course job cuts don't need to be this high, you can also increase the price of the goods/services you sell, leading to inflation and then the devaluation of the dollar). here’s another fun thing to think about: you’ll likely can the lowest wage earners, and thanks to loose borders and an inept fed gov, you can go out and hire illegal aliens to fill those jobs for less than the federally mandated minimum wage (thanks john mccain!).
i think that's one of the reasons unemployment has increased on the democrat's watch.
the point here is that we have economic morons at the helm of our country. i wouldn't trust this democrat congress to calculate and leave a tip for my dinner, let alone manage my country.
Democrats don't have a clue about "unintended consequences".
The road to ruin is paved with good intentions.
Democrats don't have a clue about "unintended consequences".
The road to ruin is paved with good intentions.
The Dems invented "unintended consequences".
SigsRule
06-13-2008, 19:55
Wait until we start seeing the unintended consequences of the recent liberal ruling from the Supreme Court about Terrorists being entitled to constitutional protections.
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"Prisoners? We didn't take any prisoners."
-or-
"We ran into too many problems trying to interrogate terrorists in a foreign land. The Israelis are taking care of them for us and we're getting LOTS of information. Too bad those terrorists aren't enjoying Club Gitmo."
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