View Full Version : HB 13-1224: CO Magazine Capacity Limit (15-Round) Bill Thread
Zak Smith with Colorado Multigun made this information available yesterday.
These lawmakers are in charge of letting HB 1224 (magazine ban) out of committee or killing it. Please take a few moments to send them your (polite) thoughts on why Colorado should not have a magazine ban.
House Judiciary Committee Members:
Daniel Kagan
Pete Lee
John Buckner
Lois Court
Bob Gardner
Polly Lawrence
Mike McLachlan
Carole Murray
Brittany Pettersen
Joseph Salazar
Jared Wright
Emails for cut and paste: repkagan@gmail.com (repkagan@gmail.com), pete.lee.house@state.co.us (pete.lee.house@state.co.us), john.buckner.house@state.co.us (john.buckner.house@state.co.us), lois.court.house@state.co.us (lois.court.house@state.co.us), bob.gardner.house@state.co.us (bob.gardner.house@state.co.us), polly.lawrence.house@state.co.us (polly.lawrence.house@state.co.us), mike.mclachlan.house@state.co.us (mike.mclachlan.house@state.co.us), murrayhouse45@gmail.com (murrayhouse45@gmail.com), brittany.pettersen.house@state.co.us (brittany.pettersen.house@state.co.us), joseph.salazar.house@state.co.us (joseph.salazar.house@state.co.us), jared.wright.house@state.co.us (jared.wright.house@state.co.us)
Try something like this:
Members of the Colorado House Judiciary Committee,
It has come to my attention that you will have the opportunity to stop the progress of House Bill 13-1224 in the next few days. I'm writing to urge you to do so. No part of House Bill 13-1224 is beneficial to the public safety nor is it beneficial to anyone other than a criminal by handicapping law abiding citizens involved in self defense.
Website for the House Judiciary Cmte: http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite?c=Page&childpagename=CGA-LegislativeCouncil%2FCLCLayout&cid=1251634987738&pagename=CLCWrapper
Colorado General Assembly website: http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/clics2013A/cslFrontPages.nsf/HomeSplash?OpenForm
Just emailed all of them, thanks.
Thank you for posting the committee list. I e-mail all of them.
Mike
You are all welcome! I will be doing some research and posting the committee members' names/emails for the other bills too. We need to make our views known at every step of the process, otherwise they will assume we (a) don't care or (b) agree with them.
In the U.S. legislature, since it is unlikely that Senator Harry Reid will schedule a vote on Dianne Feinstein's AWB proposal, and the House Republicans are staunchly against any gun control measures, the real battle on gun control legislation is in the Colorado State Assembly!
Thank YOU for your help and support of the Second Amendment!
Just sent an email to all of them as well.
Emails sent, thanks for your posts and easy copy-pastes.
Sled_Dog
02-10-2013, 16:51
Thanks for the heads up! Just emailed the following:
Members of The House Judiciary Committee;
I urge you to stop the progress of House Bill 13-224. This bill does nothing but place undue restrictions of the rights afforded the law abiding armed citizen under the U.S. Second Amendment and the Colorado Constitution Article II, Section 13.
This bill will simply enable criminals, who disregard laws enacted with bills such as this. The law abiding citizen, engaged in a lawful act of self defense should have at their disposal all resources available including standard capacity weapon magazines. Putting this bill before the Colorado House for a vote will do nothing to prevent acts violence such as those perpetrated in Aurora, and Sandy Hook elementary in Connecticut. It will more than likely enable such acts by restricting the ability of the citizen to defend themselves.
Lastly, you must understand that this bill is simply delayed confiscation. It is unjust and ill-conceived. To allow this bill to continue would be to potentially make criminals of law abiding citizens who wish to allow their heirs to inherit their private property. You can also be assured that the State will incur significant expense and negative exposure while defending in court, the challenges this law will face from every opposing organization citizens such as myself will rush to aid and support should this bill pass.
Sled_Dog
Lafayette, Colorado
Here is an update on the House Judiciary Committee membership.
House Judiciary Committee Members:
Daniel Kagan
Pete Lee
John Buckner
Lois Court
Bob Gardner
Polly Lawrence
Mike McLachlan
Carole Murray
Brittany Pettersen
Joseph Salazar
Jared Wright
Emails for cut and paste: repkagan@gmail.com (repkagan@gmail.com), pete.lee.house@state.co.us (pete.lee.house@state.co.us), john.buckner.house@state.co.us (john.buckner.house@state.co.us), lois.court.house@state.co.us (lois.court.house@state.co.us), bob.gardner.house@state.co.us (bob.gardner.house@state.co.us), polly.lawrence.house@state.co.us (polly.lawrence.house@state.co.us), mike.mclachlan.house@state.co.us (mike.mclachlan.house@state.co.us), murrayhouse45@gmail.com (murrayhouse45@gmail.com), brittany.pettersen.house@state.co.us (brittany.pettersen.house@state.co.us), joseph.salazar.house@state.co.us (joseph.salazar.house@state.co.us), jared.wright.house@state.co.us (jared.wright.house@state.co.us)
Website for the House Judiciary Cmte: http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite?c=Page&childpagename=CGA-LegislativeCouncil%2FCLCLayout&cid=1251634987738&pagename=CLCWrapper
Colorado General Assembly website: http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/clics2013A/cslFrontPages.nsf/HomeSplash?OpenForm
Dlesh123
02-10-2013, 17:41
Emailed all, thanks for the easy copy and paste adresses and thanks to JVC and Sled Dog for the contribution to the content of the letter.
Dlesh123
02-10-2013, 18:58
Are you going to start a seperate thread for HB 13-1229, Criminalization for private transfer?
I believe it would go to the same group that you have posted here.
I already emailed them as well.
Batteriesnare
02-11-2013, 08:07
Sent, thanks.
losttrail
02-11-2013, 08:28
Will email this evening when I'm home from work. Can't do it from corporate email.
Emailed - thank you for providing this valuable information.
FAXES folks. The e-mails don't get counted the same way and they don't print them out nor do they tabulate them. We heard this from both sides of the Aisle on Friday. If you are going to the effort, get the most benefit possible!!!!
Throwing faxes from my computer with this site, please follow suit: https://faxzero.com/
To date I've had a pro-2A response from Carole Murray, but no responses from anyone else on this committee from all the emails I've sent. What's it looking like for the rest of them? Any responses?
.455_Hunter
02-11-2013, 10:51
FAXES folks. The e-mails don't get counted the same way and they don't print them out nor do they tabulate them. We heard this from both sides of the Aisle on Friday. If you are going to the effort, get the most benefit possible!!!!
Maybe I am stupid and missed it, but what are the fax numbers? Thanks.
FOUND IT- The fax for the Capital is 303-866-2218
If I can make the time, I will.
mahabali
02-11-2013, 14:40
Done.
Great-Kazoo
02-11-2013, 15:01
The fax line @ the capitol must be burning up. I have been trying to send the last 15 minutes with no success.
Fried Chicken Blowout
02-11-2013, 15:04
Hello all,
I got an excellent email back from the aide to State Senator Greg Brophy today that I'm going to pass on here. It give some pointers to us on a better way to write our correspondence to the legislators. Please take a look at how you can improve your contacts.
My name is Joseph and I am an aide for Senator Greg Brophy. Senator Brophy has received a huge amount of e-mails regarding upcoming gun legislation over the past few weeks. It’s encouraging to know that so many people are willing to fight for our Second Amendment rights. Now more than ever we need you to contact your legislators. Four bills, House Bills 1224, 1226, 1228, and 1229, will be heard in committee in the next two days. These are the bills we’ve been concerned about; all four are vicious attacks on the rights of gun owners.
Unfortunately, many of the e-mails we’ve received will not be effective in convincing legislators to vote against these bills. There are a few basic guidelines you should follow when trying to communicate effectively with legislators.
Many of these pro-gun rights e-mails are very long. Legislators don’t read long e-mails. They don’t have time. In fact, Senator Brophy is one of the only legislators who answers his own e-mail. Most of the time, e-mail is answered by an aide or other staff person who will probably ignore any message longer than a paragraph or two. You’re much more likely to be heard if you limit your e-mails to a few sentences. Many of these e-mails also contain lectures on the history and importance of gun rights, extensive statistics, and detailed analysis of proposed gun restrictions. Such messages are also ineffective. Have you ever tried to convince your spouse, child, or friend to change their position on something by lecturing them? It’s unfortunate, but e-mails that try to lecture a legislator on gun rights will be sent right to the trash folder.
At this point, what really matters is how senators and representatives plan to vote on proposed gun control measures and whether the governor will sign them. To communicate effectively, simply urge your legislator to vote yes or no on a particular bill, ask how they intend to vote, and request a reply. You have a much better chance of convincing a legislator who is wavering on the issue if you keep your e-mails brief and simply ask for a “no” vote on upcoming gun control bills. Also, don’t be afraid to contact the Governor Hickenlooper. You can reach his office at 303-866-2471 or send him an e-mail from the following page:http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite/GovHickenlooper/CBON/1251592968310
Thank you for your activism. I know the situation might look bleak, but if we can effectively make our voices heard, we can take these gun bills down.
Sincerely,
Joseph Caldara
Aide to State Senator Greg Brophy
Dlesh123
02-12-2013, 01:04
The fax line @ the capitol must be burning up. I have been trying to send the last 15 minutes with no success.
I have also been trying numerous times over an hours period, no answer, figure they just turned it off for the night.
Tried this morning at 8:40 and finally got through.
R2Chief2
02-12-2013, 01:23
Wish I would have checked here first...that cut and paste would have been handy!
Aardvark
02-12-2013, 06:58
Just emailed the lot. Hope this is our day. Thanks for posting the info for us.
email and fax sent, thanks for providing the info!
Dlesh123
02-12-2013, 09:53
FAXES folks. The e-mails don't get counted the same way and they don't print them out nor do they tabulate them. We heard this from both sides of the Aisle on Friday. If you are going to the effort, get the most benefit possible!!!!
It is interesting that when you try to look up contacts, they are freely giving email addresses and phone numbers but trying to find a fax number is very difficult. I used the one in the post on this thread, hope it goes to where I think it does but I find it pretty irritating that they tell you that a fax is far more important but then don't offer a way to do so.
Throwing faxes from my computer with this site, please follow suit: https://faxzero.com/
Just used that to fax them, thanks.
Holger Danske
02-12-2013, 11:24
Email and faxes sent
carnplanenut
02-12-2013, 11:37
Just sent them an e-mail.
Jason
I've heard back from both Brian DelGrosso and Kevin Priola with both positive support responses!
liberty19
02-12-2013, 11:45
E-mails sent. Thanks for everyone's input.
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_22573432/colorado-house-committee-likely-ask-15-round-magazine
I feel safer already... [Bang]
I am opposed to any magazine restriction! However, if they are going to do it, I really hope they do 20 (to leave most factory hand gun Mags alone) and put a rim fire exemption in it. Even Denver (of all places) did this!
http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/DenverLaws.pdf
And they force MagPul out of the state and kill 200 Colorado jobs. I'm moving to Galt's Gulch! Who's with me?
Eggysrun
02-12-2013, 12:47
Sent my emails. I said that they really need to focus on our mental health crisis and not more laws that criminals obviously aren't going to follow.
.455_Hunter
02-12-2013, 12:50
Amazing!
A fifteen round limit infringes just as much as a 10 rd limit.
DeusExMachina
02-12-2013, 12:54
They see their downfall and are grasping at straws. Do not let up!
Holger Danske
02-12-2013, 13:22
Keep faxing. No compromise
osok-308
02-12-2013, 13:23
I hope that the threat of magpul leaving and having to layoff people along with all of the letters we've been sending will show them,
that if they attempt to pass these laws they will no longer be our reps, can knock some sense into these people.
So 15 is the new "magic number"?
Their idea of "compromise": "We'll take less, you should be happy!"
I am not.
O2
osok-308
02-12-2013, 13:49
So 15 is the new "magic number"?
Because who could possibly need more than 15 rounds?!
Because who could possibly need more than 15 rounds?!
I sure wish most of the manufactures and sellers would restrict all sales into a state to the civilian restriction. Now if Magpul, Midway, Brownells, Colt, Bushmaster, Ruger, S&W, Sig, and others would all do that like LaRue, it would make it interesting.
There is no compromise, this has been "them" taking and giving us nothing in return. They want us to "feel" like we gained something by raising what they want to take away. It is all mind games. Compromise means "mutually" beneficial, this is not compromise this is wanting us to beg to keep what we can.
No more....................................
Write write, and make noise.
liberty19
02-12-2013, 14:22
Negotiations will get you nowhere...except backed into a corner. Now is the time to turn the heat up!
Walter.mitty
02-12-2013, 14:55
Maybe they're going to pull a New York go for 15 now. Next election or next crisis go for 10. The one after that 7. They want to wean us off standard magazines.
lowbeyond
02-12-2013, 14:58
yep. then they will decide that grandfathering is no longer in effect. turn 'em in or register or goto jail
Zundfolge
02-12-2013, 15:04
And they force MagPul out of the state and kill 200 Colorado jobs. I'm moving to Galt's Gulch! Who's with me?
Galt's Gulch is in Colorado ... so we'll have to pick someplace else.
Galt's Gulch is in Colorado ... so we'll have to pick someplace else.
Yeah but it's got a cloaking device that hides it from the outside world ;)
The "tinfoil hat" in me wonders if the left didn't intentionally target Colorado because of "Atlas Shrugged"....[tinhat]
Big Wall
02-12-2013, 15:21
Forgive my ignorance of the proper terminology, and I know nothing has been passed, but, I have it from a good source that the state has already sent letters to police departments detailing law "codes" to charge people with and the "punishments" for having possesion of magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds.
Quotes designate words with my lack of proper terminology.
When I can contact my source I will post more details.
lowbeyond
02-12-2013, 15:28
Ha. Well we are living thought that novel as we speak. The only question is which chapter is it....
Forgive my ignorance of the proper terminology, and I know nothing has been passed, but, I have it from a good source that the state has already sent letters to police departments detailing law "codes" to charge people with and the "punishments" for having possesion of magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds.
Quotes designate words with my lack of proper terminology.
When I can contact my source I will post more details.
Not a chance: The bill will be amended in committee, amended by the committee of the whole, amended 3nd reading, and then moved to the Senate where it will be amended in committee, amended in the committee of the whole, and amended on 3rd reading. After this is all done, it goes to conference committee where the conference committee report must be re-passed by each chamber.
There is a legislative process and if passed, signed by the governor, and then regs must be drafted for enforcement. None of this is done yet nor does anybody know how it will be enacted.
mtnrider
02-12-2013, 15:40
I hope that the threat of magpul leaving and having to layoff people along with all of the letters we've been sending will show them,
.
I honestly think they don't care about the jobs, it's not a huge number in the big skeem of things. I'm sure they would gladly see a loss of 200 jobs to get Magpul out of the state. They aren't going to let a few jobs stand in the way of there agenda.
Sent my emails. I said that they really need to focus on our mental health crisis and not more laws that criminals obviously aren't going to follow.
Sorry to say that focusing on the mental health crisis will be just as much help as gun control. But I'd rather that be the focus than gun control.
They should force Comcast out too and force the TV to be limited to 15 channels. That might prevent crime in some alternate reality too.
Great-Kazoo
02-12-2013, 20:08
Good luck enforcing it.
10 rounds, 15 rounds, it doesn't matter. a limit is a limit. Once there is a number the argument just shifts to lowering the number
FML!
HB1224 passed (http://www.aurorasentinel.com/breaking-news/colorado-house-committee-approves-bill-to-limit-gun-magazine-capacity/)
[Bang]
Goodburbon
02-12-2013, 23:49
just committee so far
it only passed committe. still has a little ways to go and more voting.
yep, passing the committee only means that it can move on to the house.. Just the start..
beast556
02-12-2013, 23:51
bye bye magpul. I'm sickend over all this bull shit.
SA Friday
02-12-2013, 23:51
FML!
HB1224 passed (http://www.aurorasentinel.com/breaking-news/colorado-house-committee-approves-bill-to-limit-gun-magazine-capacity/)
[Bang]
It passed committee. It isn't law yet...
bye bye magpul. I'm sickend over all this bull shit.
Exactly. What's going to stop it now? Democrats? ROTFLSHIDMTAMSFO
Dems! Dirty Dirty Dems! [pileoshit]
Magpul should raise their prices $5 per mag and use it against each of the folks that votes for this.
hghclsswhitetrsh
02-12-2013, 23:57
Molon aabe.
liberty19
02-13-2013, 00:07
Molon aabe.
^^^^this^^^^
NightCat
02-13-2013, 00:13
....I hate to be the one to post this.......
But come this madness be written into law........Who is going to stand together against this......
This is only the beginning......we all know what's coming next, the only unknown here is when.......registration and confiscation will be next..
Who will stand beside me...
islandermyk
02-13-2013, 00:23
....I hate to be the one to post this.......
But come this madness be written into law........Who is going to stand together against this......
This is only the beginning......we all know what's coming next, the only unknown here is when.......registration and confiscation will be next..
Who will stand beside me...
I will stand beside you. [Beer]
Big Wall
02-13-2013, 00:35
What I would like to know is how the police departments received drafts of this yesterday? What is going on behind the scenes?
ETA: Sorry, this was bad info. Please disregard.
NightCat
02-13-2013, 00:42
I doubt Sheriff Maketa will uphold this if it passes the house.
Goodburbon
02-13-2013, 00:44
What I would like to know is how the police departments received drafts of this yesterday? What is going on behind the scenes?
Same way the CBO came out with results on the last tax compromise at 7am the morning after it was passed.
JetMonkey
02-13-2013, 00:50
From AR15.com
This bill was passed out of the House Judiciary Committee on 2/12/13 by a vote of 7-4.
HB 13-1224 - Concerning Prohibiting Large-Capacity Ammunition Magazines
PDF of the bill
Being heard by: House Judiciary Committee, 02/12/13
The bill prohibits the sale, transfer, or possession of an ammunition feeding device that is capable of accepting, or that can be readily converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition or more than 5 shotgun shells (large-capacity magazine.) A person may possess a large-capacity magazine if he or she owns the large-capacity magazine on the effective date of the bill and maintains continuous possession of the large-capacity magazine.
This is incredible!
ChunkyMonkey
02-13-2013, 00:53
^ I will disown you!
http://www.ar-15.co/threads/88439-High-Capacity-Magazines-Ban-passed-committee (http://www.ar-15.co/threads/88439-High-Capacity-Magazines-Ban-passed-committee)
R2Chief2
02-13-2013, 00:55
Contact your congressmen...
NOW!!!!
What I would like to know is how the police departments received drafts of this yesterday? What is going on behind the scenes?
Link? Proof?
JetMonkey
02-13-2013, 00:57
My bad I was just caught off guard by this. Didn't mean to double post.
ChunkyMonkey
02-13-2013, 01:03
My bad I was just caught off guard by this. Didn't mean to double post.
it's ok, our monkey love stays strong.
Big Wall
02-13-2013, 01:09
Link? Proof?
The only proof I can give you is my word. Someone who I have known for his entire life called me tuesday night and read me highlights from it, complete with 15 round mag limit and grandfather clause. Also had the law codes (maybe not the right word?) to use when charging someone and the penalties.
eta: Also had universal background check info.
ETA: Sorry this was bad info. Please disregard.
islandermyk
02-13-2013, 01:10
it's ok, our monkey love stays strong.
[ROFL1]
you know why I'm laughing [Coffee]
ChunkyMonkey
02-13-2013, 01:11
Lay off the batu!
islandermyk
02-13-2013, 01:17
Lay off the batu!
They need to ban that too[ROFL1]
The only proof I can give you is my word. Someone who I have known for his entire life called me tuesday night and read me highlights from it, complete with 15 round mag limit and grandfather clause. Also had the law codes (maybe not the right word?) to use when charging someone and the penalties.
eta: Also had universal background check info.
If it's not quantifiable I'm not buying it. We don't need pointless distractions right now.
GilpinGuy
02-13-2013, 01:31
Man, Wyoming is sounding better and better every day. Makes me sad that this state is going to shit so fast. Asshole lefties....
Big Wall
02-13-2013, 01:32
If it's not quantifiable I'm not buying it. We don't need pointless distractions right now.
I understand. I'll see if I can get something.
Citizen_Soldier
02-13-2013, 01:37
Man, Wyoming is sounding better and better every day. Makes me sad that this state is going to shit so fast. Asshole lefties....
Aside from the wind, it's really not bad up here.
Awesome gun laws, pro-gun representatives, lots of places to go shoot, no state income tax...
DavieD55
02-13-2013, 01:51
BILL: HB13-1224
TIME: 10:12:42 PM
MOVED: Court
MOTION: Refer House Bill 13-1224, as amended, to the Committee of the Whole. The motion passed on a vote of 7-4.
SECONDED: Salazar
VOTE
Buckner Yes
Court Yes
Gardner No
Lawrence No
McLachlan Yes
Murray No
Pettersen Yes
Salazar Yes
Wright No
Lee Yes
Kagan Yes
ShelbyJK500
02-13-2013, 02:41
How sick that Magpul might have to take its jobs and state revenue to somewhere less libfested. [Mad]
osok-308
02-13-2013, 07:39
I don't know if I've ever been so upset with this state. We need to write that much more to our congressmen. I'd call them representatives but it's clear that they don't represent us anymore.
Great-Kazoo
02-13-2013, 08:05
I don't know if I've ever been so upset with this state. We need to write that much more to our congressmen. I'd call them representatives but it's clear that they don't represent us anymore.
peaceful protest outside every anti gun rep's office.
Signs with something like.
Your rep (insert name) just voted to allow criminals free run of the town
Loss is a tragedy. Being denied the right to defend yourself is the other.
This bill is easy to defeat. Go to gun show in Wyoming, pay cash for standard capacity magazines, grind off date and bring mags back to Colorado. The burden of proof is on the prosecutor and without definitive date stamps they can't prove anything. And if they ask about the date stamp tell them you bought it that way.
kidicarus13
02-13-2013, 08:11
This bill is easy to defeat. Go to gun show in Wyoming, pay cash for standard capacity magazines, grind off date and bring mags back to Colorado. The burden of proof is on the prosecutor and without definitive date stamps they can't prove anything.
Good luck with that one. Ever see what happens to people in possession of a firearm with a filed off serial number?
Good luck with that one. Ever see what happens to people in possession of a firearm with a filed off serial number?
It is illegal to deface the serial number of a gun. No where in the bill does it make defacing mags illegal.
Punkface
02-13-2013, 08:16
what if out of state magazine manufacturers just don't put dates on their magazines?
As long as it is not a model made only after the law goes into effect there is no proof.
DD977GM2
02-13-2013, 08:23
....I hate to be the one to post this.......
But come this madness be written into law........Who is going to stand together against this......
This is only the beginning......we all know what's coming next, the only unknown here is when.......registration and confiscation will be next..
Who will stand beside me...
I have your back!!!!!!!!!
Great-Kazoo
02-13-2013, 08:35
what if out of state magazine manufacturers just don't put dates on their magazines?
UMMMMM they have been dating their mags since 9/94. it was done to comply with the 94 Crime Bill.
UncleDave
02-13-2013, 08:36
Is he reeking of your monkey love?
yep, passing the committee only means that it can move on to the house.. Just the start..
Actually, I think this bill has to go to another committee before hitting the House.
We need to rally here and prevent this from becoming an emotional based law[fail]
peaceful protest outside every anti gun rep's office.
Signs with something like.
Your rep (insert name) just voted to allow criminals free run of the town
Loss is a tragedy. Being denied the right to defend yourself is the other.
AND, your legislators, led by another who admitted the bill was authroed out of emotion and scars and could not cite any study supporting the beneficial effect, has handed power to the criminals while victimizing or criminalizing law abiding citizens.
We need to rally here and prevent this from becoming an emotional based law[fail]
It was written as an admittedly emotionally based law! We are way beyond that. RELENTLESS pressure at the Gold dome might work. Rally on COAR15...past that too.
DavieD55
02-13-2013, 09:00
With all of the important issues that our state should be focused on, they're focussed on how much ammunition we can put in our firearms magazines, as well as other pointless pieces of legislation that will only affect law abiding people. I am convinced a good number of our state Representatives along with a good portion of our state Senators are mentally incompetent. This just goes to show that some of these reps down under the gold dome do not have the best interests of the people or the state in mind. They sit around down there and dream up a bunch of unenforceable BS while taking our tax dollars to do so. This is bunch of clowns who have turned the Colorado State House of Representatives into a circus sideshow.
yjsaindon
02-13-2013, 09:00
UMMMMM they have been doing this since 9/94. Get with it.
Why so rude Jim? Same team man......Same team. Is it mandated that the manufacturer stamp their magazines. If not I don't find it out of the question that they would stop to help protect their consumers.
Great-Kazoo
02-13-2013, 09:07
Why so rude Jim? Same team man......Same team. Is it mandated that the manufacturer stamp their magazines. If not I don't find it out of the question that they would stop to help protect their consumers.
RUDE [LOL]. Either be informed or research before hand. The lack of it puts you in the same camp, as those who are destroying our Constitution. No man. is going to risk a federal indictment (or RICO) regarding anything firearm related , especially with this administration.
From AR15.com
This bill was passed out of the House Judiciary Committee on 2/12/13 by a vote of 7-4.
HB 13-1224 - Concerning Prohibiting Large-Capacity Ammunition Magazines
PDF of the bill
Being heard by: House Judiciary Committee, 02/12/13
.... A person may possess a large-capacity magazine if he or she owns the large-capacity magazine on the effective date of the bill and maintains continuous possession of the large-capacity magazine.
This is incredible!
I'm very curious and concerned to see what implications this will have on our ability to shoot at public ranges with standard capacity magazines... Are there going to be LEO's stopping everyone to inspect their mags and look at their receipts for the mags?!!
Great-Kazoo
02-13-2013, 09:13
I'm very curious and concerned to see what implications this will have on our ability to shoot at public ranges with standard capacity magazines... Are there going to be LEO's stopping everyone to inspect their mags and look at their receipts for the mags?!!
I wish them luck.
Look some weed smokers>
lowbeyond
02-13-2013, 09:13
Depending where u shoot. Bet on it.
UMMMMM they have been dating their mags since 9/94. it was done to comply with the 94 Crime Bill.
didn't that part expire along with the rest of the AWB? Existing manufacturers probably kept putting the stamps on anyway since some states have thier own rules and they already have the equipment. Hell I have a G3 mag sitting here with a 4/61 stamp, it serves as a lot number for QC if nothing more. The requirement to mark may have gone away though.
Great-Kazoo
02-13-2013, 09:32
didn't that part expire along with the rest of the AWB? Existing manufacturers probably kept putting the stamps on anyway since some states have thier own rules and they already have the equipment. Hell I have a G3 mag sitting here with a 4/61 stamp, it serves as a lot number for QC if nothing more. The requirement to mark may have gone away though.
No it has not gone away. The numbering system is still in place as other states mag ban never expired. Manufacturing mags one way for this state then another for state X is time consuming and cost prohibitive. Crappy pic of a D&H 5/08 30 rd mag. ban exp in 04.
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/51jim/100_1063_zps83a26590.jpg
muddywings
02-13-2013, 09:34
Two things:
1.
Anybody know the fence sitters on the (D) side? There is no point in sending letters/emails to Fields.
I will send an 'much appreciated' to Gardner and the others.
2.
Correct me if I'm wrong but grandfather mags are legal and the burden of proof lies in the Prosecution? Hence, the burden of proof is not in LEO. Hence, I'm off to the range to shoot my grandfathered 30rd standard cap mags and I have a fender bender....with a cop. Cop sees mags. Cop engages me reasonable suspension and arrests me on probable cause. Guns/ammo/mags confiscated. I have post bail, hire a lawyer to clear my legal good name and get my stuff back.
Probable, maybe not, possible-yes. Yes/No? Please verify my logic and if anybody more edumacted then me can put that in a two-three sentence eloquent statement, I'll include that with the letter to the fence sitters.
Granted I would rather the anti-s tell the truth and just ask for what they want-they want it all.
I enjoyed Anchorage AK. Looking to go back....Sorry, don't think ID or WY is far enough.
JetMonkey
02-13-2013, 09:36
Depending where u shoot. Bet on it.
He's right! I have heard that this happens in Kalifornia all the time. People with legal mags are scared to actually use them because there was no date stamp for some of the pre-bans (just what I have heard I'm not familiar) and they run the risk of getting confiscated. I need to get more familiar with my mags and their stamps.
Two things:
1.
Anybody know the fence sitters on the (D) side? There is no point in sending letters/emails to Fields.
I will send an 'much appreciated' to Gardner and the others.
2.
Correct me if I'm wrong but grandfather mags are legal and the burden of proof lies in the Prosecution? Hence, the burden of proof is not in LEO. Hence, I'm off to the range to shoot my grandfathered 30rd standard cap mags and I have a fender bender....with a cop. Cop sees mags. Cop engages me reasonable suspension and arrests me on probable cause. Guns/ammo/mags confiscated. I have post bail, hire a lawyer to clear my legal good name and get my stuff back.
Probable, maybe not, possible-yes. Yes/No? Please verify my logic and if anybody more edumacted then me can put that in a two-three sentence eloquent statement, I'll include that with the letter to the fence sitters.
Granted I would rather the anti-s tell the truth and just ask for what they want-they want it all.
I enjoyed Anchorage AK. Looking to go back....Sorry, don't think ID or WY is far enough.
Yeah, everyone wins. Save for the fact that you now have an arrest record and will likely be denied on all your 4473's based on Colorado's oh-so-wonderful 'Deny on arrest' that allows CBI to reject your application based on arrest record... not conviction record.
lowbeyond
02-13-2013, 09:52
all that burden of proof language means is that you will spend $ on lawyers to get off the charge.
Two things:
1.
Anybody know the fence sitters on the (D) side? There is no point in sending letters/emails to Fields.
I will send an 'much appreciated' to Gardner and the others.
2.
Correct me if I'm wrong but grandfather mags are legal and the burden of proof lies in the Prosecution? Hence, the burden of proof is not in LEO. Hence, I'm off to the range to shoot my grandfathered 30rd standard cap mags and I have a fender bender....with a cop. Cop sees mags. Cop engages me reasonable suspension and arrests me on probable cause. Guns/ammo/mags confiscated. I have post bail, hire a lawyer to clear my legal good name and get my stuff back.
Probable, maybe not, possible-yes. Yes/No? Please verify my logic and if anybody more edumacted then me can put that in a two-three sentence eloquent statement, I'll include that with the letter to the fence sitters.
Granted I would rather the anti-s tell the truth and just ask for what they want-they want it all.
I enjoyed Anchorage AK. Looking to go back....Sorry, don't think ID or WY is far enough.
for #2 there. yep you can be arrested for anything. see the post last week about arrested for not providing proof of insurance.
But as long as your mags are not something that can be proven to be contraband (marked after the date) or a reasonable doubt (destroyed mark) you would easily get off. It is hard to entertain reasonable suspicion when the 'contraband' is clearly marked.
OneGuy67
02-13-2013, 10:05
http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/clics2013a/csl.nsf/fsbillcont3/7E6713B015E62E6F87257B0100813CB5?Open&file=1224_01.pdf
The bill introduced and voted on in committee.
Forget the date stamps. They just confirm the mags are "pre-ban" manufactured. That does nothing to confirm that you owned them before the ban. How are we, law-abiding current owners of these standard capacity mags, going to "prove" we have owned them since before the ban, except for a receipt?!?! I just don't get it, and understand the sad saps in Cali who are afraid to use them for fear of confiscation and/or apprehension.
buckeye4rnr
02-13-2013, 10:16
Forget the date stamps. They just confirm the mags are "pre-ban" manufactured. That does nothing to confirm that you owned them before the ban. How are we, law-abiding current owners of these standard capacity mags, going to "prove" we have owned them since before the ban, except for a receipt?!?! I just don't get it, and understand the sad saps in Cali who are afraid to use them for fear of confiscation and/or apprehension.
We need an ar-15.co range for verified members on private land where the man can't come out and check our pmags.
losttrail
02-13-2013, 10:20
Time to get the house ready to sell. Montana, I'm coming home!
sneakerd
02-13-2013, 10:27
Soooo- is there an enactment date now or does this still have to go to another committee or just to the guv's desk? Does everyone figure this is a done deal?
motohooligan
02-13-2013, 10:31
It still needs to pass appropriations committee and then go to the house floor. Then senate committees then senate vote. THEN to governor's desk.
^ I will disown you!
http://www.ar-15.co/threads/88439-High-Capacity-Magazines-Ban-passed-committee (http://www.ar-15.co/threads/88439-High-Capacity-Magazines-Ban-passed-committee)
I win!
lulz
muddywings
02-13-2013, 10:42
http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/clics2013a/csl.nsf/fsbillcont3/7E6713B015E62E6F87257B0100813CB5?Open&file=1224_01.pdf
The bill introduced and voted on in committee.
That's not what the committee approved though, is it?
It was changed from 10-15 rounds/mag. Of course I was on ambien at that point when I was watching so....ehhhh who knows.
That's not what the committee approved though, is it?
It was changed from 10-15 rounds/mag. Of course I was on ambien at that point when I was watching so....ehhhh who knows.
We must have watched the same news channel this morning. I swear they said 15 round maximum, not that I believe anything else they said, but that's kind of the main point of the story.
Yeah, everyone wins. Save for the fact that you now have an arrest record and will likely be denied on all your 4473's based on Colorado's oh-so-wonderful 'Deny on arrest' that allows CBI to reject your application based on arrest record... not conviction record.
But you can appeal- which means more work for you just to get your toys... I call bullshit. Muddywings is right, I see arrests going up if this passes and people aren't doing wrong... unless of course our CLEOs put it out to actually double check things and not make erroneous arrests.
We must have watched the same news channel this morning. I swear they said 15 round maximum, not that I believe anything else they said, but that's kind of the main point of the story.
It was amended to 15, 8 for shotgun shells. Terribly written bill on top of being SO wrong in so many ways.
Teufelhund
02-13-2013, 10:54
You realize its a class 3 misdemeanor (if I recall correctly) to alter the SN on ANY serialized item. CRS 18-5-305 (2012)
Quit suggesting criminal activity on a public board bud.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II using tapatalk 2
You mean this one?
§ 18-5-305. Identification number - altering - possession
(1) A person commits the crime of altering identification number if, with intent that identification of an article be hindered or prevented, he obscures an identification number or in the course of business he sells, offers for sale, leases, or otherwise disposes of an article knowing that an identification number thereon is obscured.
(2) "Identification number" means a serial or motor number placed by the manufacturer upon an article as a permanent individual identifying mark.
(3) "Obscure" means to destroy, remove, alter, conceal, or deface so as to render illegible by ordinary means of inspection.
(4) Possession of an article on which an identification number is obscured is prima facie evidence that the person possessing it obscured the number with intent to hinder or prevent identification of the article, and that he knows that the identification number is obscured, unless, prior to his arrest or the issuance of a warrant for a search of the premises where the article is kept, whichever is earlier, he reports possession of the article to the police or other appropriate law enforcement agency.
(5) Altering identification number is a class 3 misdemeanor.
Are you sure a date of manufacture qualifies as an "Identification number?"
But you can appeal- which means more work for you just to get your toys... I call bullshit. Muddywings is right, I see arrests going up if this passes and people aren't doing wrong... unless of course our CLEOs put it out to actually double check things and not make erroneous arrests.
Sure you can appeal and, as of last year's stats, you will have a 56% chance of winning. The odds are in your favor! Fun fact: my 59 year old single mother was one of the 44% for some unknown reason and continues to remain unable to legally purchase a firearm for her own personal protection.
Teufelhund
02-13-2013, 11:04
Are you suggesting that these double speak liberals WON'T say it qualifies?
Rhetorical question aside, I'd bet really good money that the courts would hold that a manufacturers imprinted production dates counts as an 'identifying' or identification number.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II using tapatalk 2
Oh, I'm sure they'd say it qualifies, but according to the letter of the law, it does not. All my pmags have the same date stamp on them. That's not an "individual identifying mark."
Maintains continuous possession?
So...you loan your gun to a friend to take it out shooting and you have just broken continuous possession?
buckeye4rnr
02-13-2013, 11:38
Is a trust a possible way to get around all of this? If we put everything in a trust and add people as trustees then we should be good to go on continuous possession and avoiding background checks for passing guns down to family members correct?
ChunkyMonkey
02-13-2013, 11:38
Soooo- is there an enactment date now or does this still have to go to another committee or just to the guv's desk? Does everyone figure this is a done deal?
Uh.. appropriation committee then floor then senate appropriation then senate floor then Chickenpooper.
kidicarus13
02-13-2013, 11:56
Is a trust a possible way to get around all of this? If we put everything in a trust and add people as trustees then we should be good to go on continuous possession and avoiding background checks for passing guns down to family members correct?
I would like to know about this also.
lowbeyond
02-13-2013, 12:33
p4
(3) THE OFFENSE DESCRIBED I 1 N SUBSECTION (1) OF THIS SECTION
2 SHALL NOT APPLY TO THE TRANSFER OR POSSESSION OF A
3 LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINE THAT IS MANUFACTURED FOR; IMPORTED,
4 SOLD, OR TRANSFERRED TO; OR POSSESSED BY, ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
5 (a) A DEPARTMENT, AGENCY, OR POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THE
6 STATE OF COLORADO, ANY OTHER STATE, OR THE UNITED STATES
7 GOVERNMENT; OR
8 (b) A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER EMPLOYED BY ANY
9 DEPARTMENT, AGENCY, OR POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THE STATE OF
10 COLORADO, ANY OTHER STATE, OR THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT,
11 INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OF A
12 CAMPUS OF AN INSTITUTION OF HIGHER EDUCATION, FOR USE WHILE THE
13 OFFICER IS ON DUTY OR OFF DUTY
Looks like this says Magpul cannot sell its mags manufactured in CO to anyone out of the state unless they are explicity granted an exception in A/B
Even if this does not pass (har har) Magpul needs to move as the State will come after them in the future
NightCat
02-13-2013, 12:37
..Does it matter what the law says if our LEO's wont enforce it?
Anybody make any calls to their sheriff to ask if this bill passes that they'll enforce it....?
So.....here is a question guys, which these non-gun folk didnt think of...
Say I have a 10rnd mag right now..........and I then get an extended base plate........it's "identification" number still calls it a 10rnd magazine..per say....
So....? have I MADE it illegal by modification? and then...where is modification mentioned in this bill?
I have a 27rnd magazine for my M&P.....TaylorFreelance +10 140mm extension for my already 17+1 mag
Cylinder Head
02-13-2013, 12:56
..Does it matter what the law says if our LEO's wont enforce it?
Anybody make any calls to their sheriff to ask if this bill passes that they'll enforce it....?
So.....here is a question guys, which these non-gun folk didnt think of...
Say I have a 10rnd mag right now..........and I then get an extended base plate........it's "identification" number still calls it a 10rnd magazine..per say....
So....? have I MADE it illegal by modification? and then...where is modification mentioned in this bill?
I have a 27rnd magazine for my M&P.....TaylorFreelance +10 140mm extension for my already 17+1 mag
I came here from NJ where communist rule has been in place for quite some time. The laws there are intentionally vague so it's basically up to interpretation. If a cop feels like being a douche that day and interprets your equipment as "illegal", have fun with that lawyer bill.
I'd suggest stop arguing about what it will do and do your best to overload the golden dome fax machine and work on keeping it from becoming law. Before committee, I felt 80% sure it would get out of committee. However, I think we are defeating ourselves if we give up now. There are blue-dog dems in the House. Hickenloopers office needs to have tons of faxes as well. MagPul should be lobbied as well. $ are one thing dems love to keep. Stop talking boycott and defeat and keep on (or start) fighting for our rights. Our forefathers did not give up, they kept fighting!!!
This is how its gonna play out.
They're gonna pop some guy with a stash of mags, hit him with 20+ misdemeanors and then drop habitual offender (20 years and a felony conviction) on top of the 20 misdemeanors and that'll take the starch out of 99% of the moron abbys out there. There will be a stampede in the rush to turn eachother in.
Bet on it.
If that happens, maybe 1 in 4 will turn everything over to the authorities because they are afraid of getting in trouble.
Just like in East Germany, people will start ratting out neighbors and co-workers who may not even own guns, just because they want someone to kick their door in for annoying them. If the authorities actually begin paying people for information leading to a conviction they'll need to create a brand new agency just to answer the phones. Once a few cops get shot, expect the rest of our rights to go out the window as we experience NYPD style policing with warrantless searches of random vehicles at gunpoint . . . and anyone with gun related stickers can expect to be pulled over for "failing to signal a lane change" or "weaving within your lane" on a regular basis.
I'd suggest stop arguing about what it will do and do your best to overload the golden dome fax machine and work on keeping it from becoming law. Before committee, I felt 80% sure it would get out of committee. However, I think we are defeating ourselves if we give up now. There are blue-dog dems in the House. Hickenloopers office needs to have tons of faxes as well. MagPul should be lobbied as well. $ are one thing dems love to keep. Stop talking boycott and defeat and keep on (or start) fighting for our rights. Our forefathers did not give up, they kept fighting!!!
This is GOOD advise!!!
lowbeyond
02-13-2013, 14:55
This is how its gonna play out.
They're gonna pop some guy with a stash of mags, hit him with 20+ misdemeanors and then drop habitual offender (20 years and a felony conviction) on top of the 20 misdemeanors and that'll take the starch out of 99% of the moron abbys out there. There will be a stampede in the rush to turn eachother in.
Bet on it.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II using tapatalk 2
Can't find a habitual offender pile on charge for misdemeanors. It does exists for a felony, you have a cite/statute/whatever ?
Tinelement
02-13-2013, 15:11
So where are we on Mags we already own???
I saw the bill, but did anything change like the 10 to 15 capacity??? That I/we don't know about??
BPTactical
02-13-2013, 15:17
Take a photo of all of your mags, the photo will have a date/time stamp on it.
tonantius
02-13-2013, 15:22
One could print their own 30-rnd mags with a date prior to the law taking affect using a 3D-printer. For that matter you could print your own lower.
http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/02/13/print-draw-fire-3d-printing-could-muzzle-new-gun-laws/
Take a photo of all of your mags, the photo will have a date/time stamp on it.
worthless because mags dont have identifying features (serial numbers) to prove that the mags in my hand are the same ones as in the picture.
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-13-2013, 15:31
What is the exact wording on the 'grandfathering'?
I am now taking bets on a bill for next years legislature... *IF* this bill is passed, next year there will be another to amend it - removing the burden of proof requirement among other things.
Any takers?
lowbeyond
02-13-2013, 15:34
well they did let lose the word "incremental"
worthless because mags dont have identifying features (serial numbers) to prove that the mags in my hand are the same ones as in the picture.
And no way to prove they aren't....
He's right! I have heard that this happens in Kalifornia all the time. People with legal mags are scared to actually use them because there was no date stamp for some of the pre-bans (just what I have heard I'm not familiar) and they run the risk of getting confiscated. I need to get more familiar with my mags and their stamps.
This is where the "rebuild kit" loophool comes into play. Supposedly the burden of proof is on the prosecution and the cliche forum/chatting at the range answer was "I found them in my dead grandma's garden" excuse (aka keep your mouth shut) gets tossed around. Of course all the SMART shooters use their 10 round mag at the range because, you know, who really cares when you're shooting paper down a straight line, and keep their standard mags for protection and competition. It was always the jackasses that would flaunt their big, evil mags around and draw attention to themselves.
Just be thankful we would be allowed to grandfather mags in under the current wording because that would make things a whole lot easier for us. That being said it's way better if we get to keep our rights in the first place.
We need an ar-15.co range for verified members on private land where the man can't come out and check our pmags.
^^^^^ THIS TIMES A HUNDRED^^^^^ I would gladly donate money/time to help build this.
dwalker460
02-13-2013, 15:51
Yet ANOTHER un-enforceable law. Time to move back to Tennessee where there is SOME common damn sense left.
hmmm, these were not on the banned list were they?
http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/products/p_100004543_1.gif
if they ever make a 10 round 223 pmag, can always pop on an extension.
Rucker61
02-13-2013, 15:59
Do the Dems have a veto-proof majority in either house?
hollohas
02-13-2013, 16:19
But what about the kids?!?!?!? Any mag over 15 rounds is dangerous and we MUST protect the kids! That's all that matters, right? [sarcasm of course]
Wrong. A House committee today voted against "Jessica's Law" here in Colorado. A law that would require mandatory sentencing for sex crimes against children. The hypocrisy of these politicians is mind boggling.
So much for the "we must protect the kids" argument they have been using to push gun control.
clublights
02-13-2013, 16:25
What is the exact wording on the 'grandfathering'?
you can keep them .. but you can not "transfer them" not to family .. not for sale ... not anything.
Great-Kazoo
02-13-2013, 16:33
you can keep them .. but you can not "transfer them" not to family .. not for sale ... not anything.
[ROFL2][ROFL3][ROFL2]
How they doing with the War on drugs[ROFL3]
SA Friday
02-13-2013, 16:34
Seriously???? Do we have to have three fucking threads on every thing that happens???
Closed.
how are these idiots going to handle the tracking of imported mags? like say, a stack of ak mags that have no markings of any kind?
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-13-2013, 16:59
you can keep them .. but you can not "transfer them" not to family .. not for sale ... not anything.
I haven't seen the text, but the posts here make it seem like the mags are banned but an affirmative defense is if you can show they are 'pre-ban'. Affirmative defense means that you get them confiscated and you get cuffed and stuffed.
lowbeyond
02-13-2013, 17:05
Assuming there is stock. On July 1 2013... i am thinking o taking a road trip that crosses state lines. lol
clublights
02-13-2013, 17:06
Here is the exact text
http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/clics2013a/csl.nsf/fsbillcont/7E6713B015E62E6F87257B0100813CB5?Open&file=1224_01.pdf
(2) (a) A PERSON MAY POSSESS A LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINE IFHE OR SHE:
(I) OWNS THE LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINE ON THE EFFECTIVEDATE OF THIS SECTION; AND
(II) MAINTAINS CONTINUOUS POSSESSION OF THE LARGE-CAPACITYMAGAZINE.
(b) IF A PERSON WHO IS ALLEGED TO HAVE VIOLATED SUBSECTION(1) OF THIS SECTION ASSERTS THAT HE OR SHE IS PERMITTED TO LEGALLYPOSSESS A LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINE PURSUANT TO PARAGRAPH (a) OFTHIS SUBSECTION (2), THE PROSECUTION HAS THE BURDEN OF PROOF TOREFUTE THE ASSERTION.
newracer
02-13-2013, 17:46
Does continuous possession mean I have to have them with me all the time?
[ROFL2][ROFL3][ROFL2]
How they doing with the War on drugs[ROFL3]
exactly
OEM Glock mags aren't date stamped. Some are marked LE only and others are distinguishable buy various characteristics, but none are date stamped.
I am attending the CELL forum hosted by Hickenlooper next Tues. I hope to get a few minutes of floor time to say a few things. HB 1224 is ridiculous. First of all I have never seen a 15 round magazine for the AR platform. Therefore owners will be stuck with 10 rounds anyway.
Call Rep Joe Salazar tomorrow and tell him he is being deceitful. He is the one who offered the amendment L006 to HB 1224 to raise the limit from 10 rounds to 15. He made it sound like he was looking after the people when he make this amendment. When talking about the AR it does not make a difference. They do not make 15 round AR mags and we will still be stuck with 10 round mags. He knew this and did this on purpose.
ALSO, they clearly have not read Columbia vs Heller. 15 round mags that do not exist are clearly NOT considered "common use".
WE NEED TO FILE a FEDERAL LAWSUIT when this passes. If they wanted to ban "high capacity" mags then they should have gone after aftermarket mags that go above and beyond stock mags. Every AR15 (in 5.56/.223) that I have ever seen is sold with a 30 round mag. THAT IS COMMON USE.
Call all the Dems tomorrow and tell them "We the people" WILL be suing the state as soon as this passes. If you know any Constitutional lawyers, call them. We need to mobilize NOW.
Joe Salazar's office number is 303-866-2918. PM me if you have any further questions.
I am attending the CELL forum hosted by Hickenlooper next Tues. I hope to get a few minutes of floor time to say a few things. HB 1224 is ridiculous. First of all I have never seen a 15 round magazine for the AR platform. Therefore owners will be stuck with 10 rounds anyway.
Call Rep Joe Salazar tomorrow and tell him he is being deceitful. He is the one who offered the amendment L006 to HB 1224 to raise the limit from 10 rounds to 15. He made it sound like he was looking after the people when he make this amendment. When talking about the AR it does not make a difference. They do not make 15 round AR mags and we will still be stuck with 10 round mags. He knew this and did this on purpose.
Impossible he said that he checked on the internet during the break (after comments before amendments) and found that 15 round AR15 magazines were very prevalent.
I am assuming he went here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_24/270181_.html
Big Wall
02-14-2013, 00:28
The only proof I can give you is my word. Someone who I have known for his entire life called me tuesday night and read me highlights from it, complete with 15 round mag limit and grandfather clause. Also had the law codes (maybe not the right word?) to use when charging someone and the penalties.
eta: Also had universal background check info.
Sorry, this was bad info. Please disregard.
Sorry, this was bad info. Please disregard.
Thanks for clarifying. We all need to fact check before we post to avoid distractions on something so important.
I am attending the CELL forum hosted by Hickenlooper next Tues. I hope to get a few minutes of floor time to say a few things. HB 1224 is ridiculous. First of all I have never seen a 15 round magazine for the AR platform. Therefore owners will be stuck with 10 rounds anyway.
Call Rep Joe Salazar tomorrow and tell him he is being deceitful. He is the one who offered the amendment L006 to HB 1224 to raise the limit from 10 rounds to 15. He made it sound like he was looking after the people when he make this amendment. When talking about the AR it does not make a difference. They do not make 15 round AR mags and we will still be stuck with 10 round mags. He knew this and did this on purpose.
ALSO, they clearly have not read Columbia vs Heller. 15 round mags that do not exist are clearly NOT considered "common use".
WE NEED TO FILE a FEDERAL LAWSUIT when this passes. If they wanted to ban "high capacity" mags then they should have gone after aftermarket mags that go above and beyond stock mags. Every AR15 (in 5.56/.223) that I have ever seen is sold with a 30 round mag. THAT IS COMMON USE.
Call all the Dems tomorrow and tell them "We the people" WILL be suing the state as soon as this passes. If you know any Constitutional lawyers, call them. We need to mobilize NOW.
Joe Salazar's office number is 303-866-2918. PM me if you have any further questions.
your second paragraph there about deceit, 15 rounds vs 10 makes a big difference to handguns. Yeah it makes no difference to AR15 platform (in .223) but it does make a difference to many other guns.
Just want to say, 15 is much better than 10.
(until next year when they bump it back down to 10 because it made no difference on crime.)
lowbeyond
02-14-2013, 09:36
Look no further then NJ/NY for what they will do. 15 becomes 10, 10 becomes 7.
We need an ar-15.co range for verified members on private land where the man can't come out and check our pmags.
I'll contribute to this cause.
Huff post article on what happened... Totally slanted and completely misrepresents what happened on Tuesday.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/13/ban-on-high-capacity-maga_n_2670463.html
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_22592143/colorado-governor-hickenlooper-says-he-is-ok-gun-magazine-limits
If anyone needs to get rid of their high cap mags before they are banned, you are more than welcome to donate them to me... in the bland, gun loving state of WY
If anyone needs to get rid of their high cap mags before they are banned, you are more than welcome to donate them to me... in the bland, gun loving state of WY
You will probably have a few more neighbors...as things go to shit down here.
mtnrider
02-14-2013, 17:31
So when does this go into effect? I have a outstanding order for mags with DSG I'm guessing they are probably going to cancel it now?
So when does this go into effect? I have a outstanding order for mags with DSG I'm guessing they are probably going to cancel it now?
it is not law yet; it is in the initial stages of the legislative process.
So when does this go into effect? I have a outstanding order for mags with DSG I'm guessing they are probably going to cancel it now?
It still has more hurdles (very small ones) until it can go into effect. I believe it'll be July 1 if it goes as planned.
mtnrider
02-14-2013, 17:35
Sorry, I misunderstood "endorsed" I thought he signed the thing into law when I saw this. I was like what the hell just happened, thought there was more hoops to go through (not that it will be stopped)
.
I heard july sometime
If Section 2 stays, it will be July 1; If Section 2 is amended out of the bill, it will be as soon as the Governor signs it because of Section 3
SECTION 2. Effective date. This act takes effect July 1, 2013.
SECTION 3. Safety clause. The general assembly hereby finds,
determines, and declares that this act is necessary for the immediate
preservation of the public peace, health, and safety.
kidicarus13
02-14-2013, 17:39
"The folks that are needing, that are making use of this regulatory environment, it seems not unreasonable for them to pay the cost of the expense of that."
I'm certainly not NEEDING this regulatory environment Gov., you are kind of forcing it on me so since the majority voted this regulatory environment on me, maybe we should make everyone pay for it.
mtnrider
02-14-2013, 17:42
"The folks that are needing, that are making use of this regulatory environment, it seems not unreasonable for them to pay the cost of the expense of that."
I think I will use that logic to not pay taxes for schools since I don't have any children going to one.
.
Great-Kazoo
02-14-2013, 17:48
Why is anyone here, or any gun owner, surprised ?
You think Hick just had an Epiphany. He has been anti gun for ever, no matter what his mouth says. The forces behind all this shit are doomberg, soros, Obama, VPC, and eric holder. You believe they have anything other than the disarmament of America before their next step is smoking crack. The proposed restrictions are one of the many thousand cuts we will be facing in the next 4 years.
Dlesh123
02-14-2013, 17:58
Why is anyone here, or any gun owner, surprised ?
You think Hick just had an Epiphany. He has been anti gun for ever, no matter what his mouth says. The forces behind all this shit are doomberg, soros, Obama, VPC, and eric holder. You believe they have anything other than the disarmament of America before their next step is smoking crack. The proposed restrictions are one of the many thousand cuts we will be facing in the next 4 years.
Nail, hammer, direct hit
Jesus-With-A-.45
02-14-2013, 18:10
My wife & I have already started looking at homes in Cheyenne, WY & are hoping to move by this time 2014. It's not only the guns that are the problem........it's a society that thinks legalization of drugs is "ok" that has me really concerned about CO.
muddywings
02-14-2013, 18:22
This is my own repost:
went into the CO Legislature page and corrected and cut out the (R)s
Here you go, (D)s only:
Kathleen.conti.house@state.co.us, lois.court.house@state.co.us, crisanta.duran.house@state.co.us, Thomas.exum.house@state.co.us, mferrandino@yahoo.com,Rhonda.fields.house@state.co .us, randyfischer@frii.com, mike.foote.house@state.co.us, Leroy.garcia.house@state.co.us, millie.hamner.house@state.co.us,dl.hullinghorst.ho use@state.co.us, repkagan@gmail.com, john.kefalas.senate@state.co.us, reptracy29@gmail.com, Jeanne.labuda.house@state.co.us,Steve.lebsock.hous e@state.co.us, pete.lee.house@state.co.us, Claire.levy.house@state.co.us, jenise.may.house@state.co.us, beth.mccann.house@state.co.us,mike.mclachlan.house @state.co.us, Jovan.melton.house@state.co.us, diane.mitschbush.house@state.co.us, Dominick.moreno.house@state.co.us, dan.pabon.house@state.co.us,cherylin.peniston.hous e@state.co.us, Brittany.pettersen.house@state.co.us, Dianne.primavera.house@state.co.us, Paul.rosenthal.house@state.co.us, su.ryden.house@state.co.us,Joseph.salazar.house@st ate.co.us, sue.schafer.house@state.co.us, jonathan.singer.house@state.co.us, nancy.todd.senate@state.co.us, max@maxtyler.us, edvigil1@gmail.com,angela.williams.house@state.co. us, dave.young.house@state.co.us, Irene.aguilar.senate@state.co.us, john.buckner.house@state.co.us, morgan.carroll.senate@state.co.us,angela.giron.sen ate@state.co.us, lucia.guzman.senate@state.co.us, rollie.heath.senate@state.co.us, mary.hodge.senate@state.co.us, senatorhudak@gmail.com,cheri.jahn.senate@state.co. us, mike.johnston.senate@state.co.us, senatormattjones@gmail.com, john.morse.senate@state.co.us, linda.newell.senate@gmail.com,Jeanne.nicholson.sen ate@state.co.us, Pat.steadman.senate@state.co.us,
I gave them a short email:
Subject: Vote no on HR 1224/6/8/9
5 sentence short, I hope you will oppose these bills and work on legistation that will keep criminals in jail and work on our mental health care system....blablabla
"how will you vote?" is how I eneded.
I don't think we need waste time with the (R)s other than a nice thank you.
ETA: a few kick backs so I removed them from the above listing
(I'm probably going to get a slap from the Mods but I'm going to dump that email list [it was a pain in the ass to edit] in a few posts here hoping that we'll flood their emails and hopefully it won't ever get to Gov Hick--I think we need 5 to cross the aisle to the pro 2A side)
BPTactical
02-14-2013, 18:28
Now did anybody REALLY expect anything different?
Thank you Muddywings
We voted to end pot prohibition so I guess we have to prohibit something else. When pot was illegal, you couldn't find pot anywhere so when universal background checks are enacted, illegal gun purchases will stop overnight.
denverco
02-14-2013, 18:46
Montana for me gentlemen.
two shoes
02-14-2013, 18:59
Thank you Muddywings for making that painless.
Here is what I sent:
I ask that you vote NO on the following:
· HB-1224: Bans all magazines that hold more than 15 rounds.
· HB-1226: Bans armed self-defense on college campuses; expanding criminal safe-zones to all state college and university campuses.
· HB-1228: Imposes a Jim Crow-style gun tax on all purchases. This legislation has no limit on the amount the CBI could charge for a background check.
· HB-1229: Bans the private sale of firearms and institutes universal background checks / gun registration for all Colorado gun owners.
As a Husband, a Father, and Veteran, none of these misguided bills will help protect our children or our loved ones from dangerous individuals. PLEASE work on keeping vicious criminals behind bars and improving our mental health system.
I am an independent voter and do not support a single party emphatically. I will vote for anyone who defends our rights as recognized by the Constitution.
Please reply with how you intend to vote as this will be the basis in which of you will receive my support in upcoming elections.
Kind regards,
I understand everyone who wants to leave the state and I share your concerns and may one day join you. If you can I'd ask that you stay with us until the next election. We cannot run forever. Colorado is my home and I intend to keep fighting for it.
muddywings
02-14-2013, 19:18
I understand everyone who wants to leave the state and I share your concerns and may one day join you. If you can I'd ask that you stay with us until the next election. We cannot run forever. Colorado is my home and I intend to keep fighting for it.
well said! I would like to see a repeat of the 94-96 national election here in CO and I think Prez Clinton is right in that nothing hurts Dems more than going against the 2A.
I understand everyone who wants to leave the state and I share your concerns and may one day join you. If you can I'd ask that you stay with us until the next election. We cannot run forever. Colorado is my home and I intend to keep fighting for it.
It will be three to five years for me. My son graduates high school in 2018. Although, I may move earlier if I can coordinate the move with my son's mom. I love my home. I was so incredibly happy when I bought my horse property in the mountains and I planned to spend the next 25 years here, but I won't live with the restrictions and high taxes that seem to creep up each year. I have no doubt hat TABOR will be repealed in the next four years, and this state will be truly destroyed.
Goodburbon
02-14-2013, 19:31
I had every intention of growing old here. Its been made clear that im not welcome here. I have a few choices as i see it, only 2 dont involve jail time, an id rather not live under the blanket of tyranny...thus if the laws pass, i make plans to leave.
With the cali contingent here, and weed keeping them here there will never be a majority taha will restore lost rights.
Doubledamage
02-14-2013, 19:56
The final hearings are supposed to be tomorrow in Denver on all 4 bills.
If you can go and represent the cause either by speaking or just by sheer numbers do so.
Those showing up will be the tip of the iceberg.
Great-Kazoo
02-14-2013, 20:11
The final hearings are supposed to be tomorrow in Denver on all 4 bills.
If you can go and represent the cause either by speaking or just by sheer numbers do so.
Those showing up will be the tip of the iceberg.
They IGNORED the Numbers Tuesday. This is the public spectacle to make everyone believe democracy was followed.
They IGNORED the Numbers Tuesday. This is the public spectacle to make everyone believe democracy was followed.
+1. Stop kidding yourself. When the time for talking and voting is over, I'll be ready.
hollohas
02-14-2013, 20:43
"The folks that are needing, that are making use of this regulatory environment, it seems not unreasonable for them to pay the cost of the expense of that."
I'm certainly not NEEDING this regulatory environment Gov., you are kind of forcing it on me so since the majority voted this regulatory environment on me, maybe we should make everyone pay for it.
Exactly. How many of you guys have to pay a fee to exercise your 1st Amendment rights?
Throw the bums out! Nothing will mobilize us faster than if these ill-conceived laws are signed into law!
clworth22
02-14-2013, 21:01
I understand everyone who wants to leave the state and I share your concerns and may one day join you. If you can I'd ask that you stay with us until the next election. We cannot run forever. Colorado is my home and I intend to keep fighting for it.
I agree 100% I will not surrender, ever. I believe in the Constituition, bill of rights, and Colorado. I'm in it for the long haul and refuse to accept defeat, nor the defeatist attitude.
Keep a list of all the reps who voted in favor of these bills, and then we will organize during the next election cycle to generously and enthusiastically support their opponents. Votes have consequences.
Watermagnet
02-14-2013, 21:13
I agree 100% I will not surrender, ever. I believe in the Constituition, bill of rights, and Colorado. I'm in it for the long haul and refuse to accept defeat, nor the defeatist attitude.
I agree with this, but how is that working for the like minded folks in CA, IL and NY who are already criminalized for exercising their "once" rights? You clearly can't reason with emotional idiots who don't let facts interfere with their decision making; combine that with us clearly being in the minority in the polls...Truly a lose/lose situation.
muddywings
02-14-2013, 22:07
From Ed Vigil (D)
I will vote NO against all anti gun legislation.
break break
that's 1 (D)--need 4 more (I believe)!!!
I think we should start a recall on Hickenlooper. THe recall may not be successfull but I think it would be easy to force a recall election. It would definately send a message and may tilt things our way.
For those of you with Facebook... let him know that his support of this legislation will be a very bad career decision! https://www.facebook.com/JohnHickenlooper
His page is getting hit pretty hard from 2A supporters outside of the state (hunters, fishermen, travelers).
Great-Kazoo
02-14-2013, 23:24
Keep a list of all the reps who voted in favor of these bills, and then we will organize during the next election cycle to generously and enthusiastically support their opponents. Votes have consequences.
WE should be ORGANIZED NOW, Not NEXT election cycle. The dems prepped for 2012 right after O's win in 08. Social media, a lap dog MSM, web chats, lots of money as was done here last year. They developed a game plan and did it sparing no expense.
Here is what I am sending to the House:
Vote NO on the Fantasy Acts (HB-1224/6/8/9)
Honorable Representative:
I strongly encourage you to vote NO on House Bills 1224/6/8/9.
These gun control bills are most accurately described as the "Fantasy Acts," because it is a fantasy to believe that they will reduce gun injuries or death. In particular, a restriction on magazine capacity will have no pragmatic value in reducing injuries and deaths from gun violence.
The magazine restriction bill is akin to applying the death penalty to a suicide bomber, or mass shooter. In most instances, they have already made up their minds to kill other and themselves.
A restriction on magazine capacity will do nothing to reduce deaths and injuries in our state, and may actually have the perverse effect of making Coloradans less safe, because ONLY LAW ABIDING CITIZENS WILL COMPLY, putting them at a disadvantage against criminals and predators who flaunt the law!
Perhaps a story would be a more effective way to communicate the dangers of passing these bills. I ask that you read "Where The Thorns Grow (A Gun Fable)" before casting your vote: http://jamesviser.com/?p=426.
Respectfully,
I would use the word reverse instead of perverse.
Holger Danske
02-15-2013, 14:48
The family and I just left the capital. Rep Chris and others were speaking against the bill. Give them your support. If you can get down here today there is plenty of room in the gallery. Watched the Dems pitch then rescind an amendment to allow spouses of military an exemption to possess " full capacity" magazines . Even my boys who were bored at the time thought it was a silly proposal.
Kudos to the rep who represents the district where Columbine is located. He's a D and I figured he would pour it on but was surprised when he said that his constituents are at least 10 to 1 AGAINST this bill! Man, talk about curve ball. He has a law degree and admitted to not having a license and went into Heller v DC and a few other things and in the end brought back around to how if people are going to continue to bring up Columbine they need to put weight in what the actual constituents of the district where Columbine is located. Much like the other day I feel like the statements against these bills are overwhelming and in the end... I still feel like they've already made up their mind. There was more than a 2 to 1 the other day against these bills and it still made it out of committee. Even though the reasons against these bills are numerous and solid I just can't see it swaying the minds of the only ones who matter. Annoying. If you need a better example of politicians ignoring the people they were elected to represent & serve then I don't know what to tell you.
DeusExMachina
02-15-2013, 15:09
We need 5 Dems to oppose the bill. Sounds like we have at least 1.
It sounds like a damn circus there.
We need 5 Dems to oppose the bill. Sounds like we have at least 1.
It sounds like a damn circus there.
I have not heard a single solid and quantifiable reason FOR these bills yet. Not one. Idiots.
Great-Kazoo
02-15-2013, 15:30
I have not heard a single solid and quantifiable reason FOR these bills yet. Not one. Idiots.
Dem's and gun grabbers never needed any logical reason for any laws they want. Hey here's an idea why not enact a bill that allows people committing crimes to become citizens. Why that's a great idea, think of all the new voters we will have. Isn't democracy great.
What in the holy hell is this guy rambling on about?
Kraven251
02-15-2013, 16:04
Good Bye Magpul.
newracer
02-15-2013, 16:05
There are still some hurdles, we have the best chance in the senate to stop it.
Kraven251
02-15-2013, 16:20
There are still some hurdles, we have the best chance in the senate to stop it.
I'd say yes, but color me jaded. With all of the testimony I saw for it shouldn't have got out of committee. Then with facts, logic and overall common sense arguments, it still passed the house. I don't see the senate going any better.
n8tive97
02-15-2013, 16:20
This sucks....
griebel303
02-15-2013, 16:22
Damnt it Dickenlooper
there are still more D's in the State Senate than R's. I see it passing. We're screwed and we didn't even get kissed first.
DeusExMachina
02-15-2013, 16:24
We need 3 Ds in the senate to beat it. What was the count in the house?
We need 3 Ds in the senate to beat it. What was the count in the house?
Not an official vote, was only audible. Final written vote will be next week.
newracer
02-15-2013, 16:33
I'd say yes, but color me jaded. With all of the testimony I saw for it shouldn't have got out of committee. Then with facts, logic and overall common sense arguments, it still passed the house. I don't see the senate going any better.
It has not passed the house yet.
Agree totally.
I'd say yes, but color me jaded. With all of the testimony I saw for it shouldn't have got out of committee. Then with facts, logic and overall common sense arguments, it still passed the house. I don't see the senate going any better.
Mountain Man
02-15-2013, 17:11
It has not passed yet.
Great-Kazoo
02-15-2013, 17:15
It has not passed yet.
When you have 1 foot over the finish line the rest of the body isn't that far behind.
Mountain Man
02-15-2013, 17:19
Time to man up and everyone who is sitting on their asses to call anyone and everyone and inundate them with feedback on why its a bad idea. Especially any one who is on the fence. If it does pass I see a constitutional amendment effectively reversing anything the bastards sneak through.
If they can do it for weed twice we should be able to do it for something that really matters.
When you have 1 foot over the finish line the rest of the body isn't that far behind.
Not in so many words, that's exactly what I was thinking... I mean, really? If after the countless emails, hearings, rallies, etc. and they still vote to pass it here, you really think by Monday they're going to have a change of heart and change their stripes? CO is fucked, I have no reason to live here anymore... Short of some sort of massive influx of gun lovers, these asshats in office here aren't going anywhere- we already know we're outnumbered by liberals in this state, look at the voting demographics- Obama, D control of the General Assembly, etc. I'm all for trying to recall them, but I'm not going to get my hopes up. Since 2008 I've learned that I should hope for the best, but plan for democratic takeover. [Mad]
Colorobo
02-15-2013, 17:34
Monday is the official written vote right. I am a little confused on the process. So it is Monday when we find out? Also is there safeguards against fraud? Just currios. I think it is lost?
vectorsc
02-15-2013, 17:40
Yes - we find out. It may be Tuesday. Today's oral vote is non-binding.
It is likely to pass and that these people will have taken my home from me.
battle_sight_zero
02-15-2013, 17:42
Monday is the official written vote right. I am a little confused on the process. So it is Monday when we find out? Also is there safeguards against fraud? Just currios. I think it is lost?
It is most important that we know which legislators vote for these unjust laws so we can start the recall process and make their lives as miserable as they are doing to our lives.
Monday is the official written vote right. I am a little confused on the process. So it is Monday when we find out? Also is there safeguards against fraud? Just currios. I think it is lost?
No. On Monday the House votes. If the House passes the bill it goes to the Senate. If the Senate passes the bill it goes to the Governor for his signature. Then it's law.
Zundfolge
02-15-2013, 17:54
All this needs to be defeated in the Senate is for 3 Democrats to vote against it (along with all the Republicans) THAT IS IT.
So everyone needs to start writing, calling and emailing all the rural Democrat senators you can (ESPECIALLY if you live in their district).
vectorsc
02-15-2013, 17:57
I'm amazed that people think they can ever fix our state. Ever again. This is now Eastern California. Politicians in Colorado are listening to their constituents you see - and we have become a STATE full of California Rejects. Too liberal for California? Go to COLORADO!
This ain't gonna buff out.
I have this feeling, down in my gut (no it's not diarrhea), that no matter how many faxes, emails, or phone calls, nothing will sink in with these cretins. I hope I'm wrong, and will continue to do so (I just checked my "Sent messages" on my email- wow, I'll bet they LOVE me down in Denver! [Coffee]). But I ask, is there a way to get through to these folks, I mean really? I don't think they read our emails, I don't think the tallies really go to heart for them, and there just doesn't seem to be any way to change their mind. Would threat of recall scare them enough to strike all this crap down? I fear we might be too late and the hardline, anti-gun dems are already in power and don't have a single fear of CO ever going red again.
Great-Kazoo
02-15-2013, 18:41
No. On Monday the House votes. If the House passes the bill it goes to the Senate. If the Senate passes the bill it goes to the Governor for his signature. Then it's law.
They are off on Monday, presidents day.
Mountain Man
02-15-2013, 19:12
I'm hoping three will see the light in Senate. Either way this should be enough to push these libs out and get back to the Real Colorado.
I'm amazed that people think they can ever fix our state. Ever again. This is now Eastern California. Politicians in Colorado are listening to their constituents you see - and we have become a STATE full of California Rejects. Too liberal for California? Go to COLORADO!
Actually, I think there are a lot more people from Illinois moving to Denver than Californians . . . and in my opinion they're even worse.
BlasterBob
02-15-2013, 19:50
Actually, I think there are a lot more people from Illinois moving to Denver than Californians . . . and in my opinion they're even worse.
Hey, I moved here 18 years ago FROM the Chicago metro area. Moved here to get away from that sewer and even though we have some shitty new Colorado laws POSSIBLY staring us in the face, Colorado still beats the shit out of Illinois. Please don't put me in the same category of the Chicago liberals moving out here. The only way I enjoy seeing Illinois is when I can see it in my rear view mirror.[blaster]
SuperiorDG
02-15-2013, 20:02
I just heard from one of the state reps. on the Mike Brown show that Biden is in town contacting all the dems and telling them to hold their ground.
Great-Kazoo
02-15-2013, 20:20
I just heard from one of the state reps. on the Mike Brown show that Biden is in town Donating money to all the dems and telling them to hold their ground.
killianak9
02-15-2013, 20:41
I just heard from one of the state reps. on the Mike Brown show that Biden is in town contacting all the dems and telling them to hold their ground.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/vice-president-joe-biden-first-lady-michelle-obama-in-colorado-this-weekend
Shocker! Great timing huh?
UrbanWolf
02-15-2013, 22:14
Anyone who is up to date about the guns laws in CO?
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