Is this why ammo is so expensive?

[USAFGopherMike]

Hopefully not a repost. Did a search and didn't find anything. Just read this on Fox:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/02/14/why-is-department-homeland-security-buying-so-many-bullets/

"Online rumors about a big government munitions purchase are true, sort of.
The Homeland Security Department wants to buy more than 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition in the next four or five years. It says it needs them -- roughly the equivalent of five bullets for every person in the United States -- for law enforcement agents in training and on duty.
Published federal notices about the ammo buy have agitated conspiracy theorists since the fall. That's when conservative radio host Alex Jones spoke of an "arms race against the American people" and said the government was "gearing up for total collapse, they're gearing up for huge wars."
The government's explanation is much less sinister.
Federal solicitations to buy the bullets are known as "strategic sourcing contracts," which help the government get a low price for a big purchase, says Peggy Dixon, spokeswoman for the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glynco, Ga . The training center and others like it run by the Homeland Security Department use as many as 15 million rounds every year, mostly on shooting ranges and in training exercises.
Dixon said one of the contracts would allow Homeland Security to buy up to 750 million rounds of ammunition over the next five years for its training facilities. The rounds are used for basic and advanced law enforcement training for federal law enforcement agencies under the department's umbrella. The facilities also offer firearms training to tens of thousands of federal law enforcement officers. More than 90 federal agencies and 70,000 agents and officers used the department's training center last year.
The rest of the 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition would be purchased by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the federal government's second largest criminal investigative agency.
ICE's ammunition requests in the last year included:
--450 million rounds of .40-caliber duty ammunition
--40 million rounds of rifle ammunition a year for as many as five years, for a total bullet-buy of 200 million rounds
--176,000 rifle rounds on a separate contract
--25,000 blank rounds
The Homeland Security ammo buy is not the first time the government's bullets purchases have sparked concerns on the Internet. The same thing happened last year when the Social Security Administration posted a notice that it was buying 174,000 hollow point bullets.
Jonathan L. Lasher, the agency's assistant inspector general for external relations, said those bullets were for the Social Security inspector general's office, which has about 295 agents who investigate Social Security fraud and other crimes.
Jones the talk-show host did not immediately respond to requests for comment."

I definitely don't like the sound of this.

[Bailey Guns]

This made the rounds some time last year. Alex Jones made a big deal out of it and, as usual, claimed the govt's war on the people was imminent. But when you look at the number or rounds (over 5 years) and the number of armed personnel needing ammo for carry and training, it doesn't seem out of line to me.

Obviously, the govt buys billions of rounds of ammo every year. I'm no fan of the govt but I don't see any conspiracies in this.

[USAFGopherMike]

I'm no fan of the govt but I don't see any conspiracies in this.

Me either, but the timing is "sporty".

[Great-Kazoo]

Not at all. it's due to the Wish i had funds buyers. They had no money for an $800 AR then suddenly found $1200 for the same gun 2 months later. NOW they need ammo and off they go spending away.Believing someone else will pay what they did, an order is placed for 5K instead of their 2K. WTB ad for ammo nets them an extra $200 . SOOO why not try selling for $500, then 6 now $750. Seller figures , Hey i made some money and forks over $50+ per bulk pack of 22LR. A viscous circle continues.
Myself i'm shooting 22 from the prior administration. Hell i might unload it at $40 per bulk pack just to cut some throats. Been selling a few primers here n there for $32-35 per K just because.
Most of the complainers of price gouging, have now found they can sell at current market value +. Down side, everything cost more. UPSIDE is less PG DUPE Threads

[Dlesh123]

Not at all. it's due to the Wish i had funds buyers. They had no money for an $800 AR then suddenly found $1200 for the same gun 2 months later. NOW they need ammo and off they go spending away.Believing someone else will pay what they did, an order is placed for 5K instead of their 2K. WTB ad for ammo nets them an extra $200 . SOOO why not try selling for $500, then 6 now $750. Seller figures , Hey i made some money and forks over $50+ per bulk pack of 22LR. A viscous circle continues.
Myself i'm shooting 22 from the prior administration. Hell i might unload it at $40 per bulk pack just to cut some throats. Been selling a few primers here n there for $32-35 per K just because.
Most of the complainers of price gouging, have now found they can sell at current market value +. Down side, everything cost more. UPSIDE is less PG DUPE Threads

I think Jim has got the best take on it. The government has been buying ammo for years, over five years doesn't mean they are getting 5 years worth all this year.
So speculators and hoarders are driving the price up. Now if we could all be smart enough to hoard when the price is low.

[DOC]

174,000 rounds divided among 295 people is less than 600 rounds a person. Not a bad perk for any job. Reasonable amount for training. And seeing as they are pencil pushing social security people they might not ever use in anger. I see it as a waste since they shouldn't be armed anyway. But I digress.

1.6 billion rounds is a bit much for training since over 5 years its 320,000,000 rounds a year and they said they need 15 million a year for training. They are stockpiling what in civilian terms would be called a "cache" of "arsonal". Seems a bit weird they are getting more ammo then they can shoot in normal training.
Government waste or really planning something? I think they are to anal to over spend like that without a reason. Maybe it will come down to the surplus market soon?

[Circuits]

DHS does include a few small little agencies with legitimate weapons and ammo needs, like - oh, the US Coast Guard, US Secret Service, Customs and Border Protection, Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

[Delfuego]

So speculators and hoarders are driving the price up.+1

[Pancho Villa]

Don't forget the "spend it while you have it" factor. If you haven't expended your budget by the end of the year, you frantically spend so that you can ask for more money next year. Any extra ammo may just be attempting to expend all their budget for the year so they can say "We did great, but we could really use more money..." next time budget discussions come up.

[Great-Kazoo]

174,000 rounds divided among 295 people is less than 600 rounds a person. Not a bad perk for any job. Reasonable amount for training. And seeing as they are pencil pushing social security people they might not ever use in anger. I see it as a waste since they shouldn't be armed anyway. But I digress.

1.6 billion rounds is a bit much for training since over 5 years its 320,000,000 rounds a year and they said they need 15 million a year for training. They are stockpiling what in civilian terms would be called a "cache" of "arsonal". Seems a bit weird they are getting more ammo then they can shoot in normal training.
Government waste or really planning something? I think they are to anal to over spend like that without a reason. Maybe it will come down to the surplus market soon?


Where have i heard that before?

[Aloha_Shooter]

I don't think there's really any "there" there for conspiracy theories but I'm sure it did contribute the scarcity of ammo at this time which contributes to price increases. Personally, I think it's great that federal shooters are practicing more; I really hate to see news stories where 3-5 officers empty 2-3 mags each and the perp has like 6-12 wounds.

[Citizen_Soldier]

Isn't all of this hollow point ammunition as well? Which doesn't make much sense because most of what they should be buying is FMJ for training. JHPs only have one real use...

[Aloha_Shooter]

Isn't all of this hollow point ammunition as well? Which doesn't make much sense because most of what they should be buying is FMJ for training. JHPs only have one real use...

Train with what you're going to use.

[Great-Kazoo]

http://news.yahoo.com/homeland-security-cache-bullets-190840538.html

[Citizen_Soldier]

Train with what you're going to use.

You really shoot all JHP at the range and during training courses? Even if I could afford to do that, I still don't think I would.

I run enough hollowpoints through my carry pistols and ARs to make sure they function perfectly, but I don't see how shooting FMJs at the range is any different. Accuracy will be almost identical if you're using the same grain and brand of ammo, and they both punch the same size hole in paper...

[Great-Kazoo]

You really shoot all JHP at the range and during training courses? Even if I could afford to do that, I still don't think I would.

I run enough hollowpoints through my carry pistols and ARs to make sure they function perfectly, but I don't see how shooting FMJs at the range is any different. Accuracy will be almost identical if you're using the same grain and brand of ammo, and they both punch the same size hole in paper...

He was referring to DHS.

[Boulderar15]

Pair this with the fact that DHS also ordered 7,000 'personal defense' weapons late last year and it makes you start to wonder.

'Personal defense' when a DHS agent has it, but 'assault style' for everyone else...gotta love that hypocrisy.

Do the math.

15mm rnds a year at one facility. Divide by 1.6B and you have 100+ years of ammo. How many facilities? 10-20?? Either way, that is a buttload of ammo for training.

Bigger ? is why does DHS need 7,000 ARs when they only operate in the US and they claim ARs are only supposed to be used on a battlefield.....

[Great-Kazoo]

Pair this with the fact that DHS also ordered 7,000 'personal defense' weapons late last year and it makes you start to wonder.

'Personal defense' when a DHS agent has it, but 'assault style' for everyone else...gotta love that hypocrisy.

Do the math.

15mm rnds a year at one facility. Divide by 1.6B and you have 100+ years of ammo. How many facilities? 10-20?? Either way, that is a buttload of ammo for training.

Bigger ? is why does DHS need 7,000 ARs when they only operate in the US and they claim ARs are only supposed to be used on a battlefield.....

You're thinking too hard. The way you look at it is the same way AG'er look at us gun owners. there are bigger fish to fry, especially after the house just passed on to the senate their mag ban.

[DOC]

Where have i heard that before?
I don't know. That is my personal opinion.
I think most government agencies could work just fine with none of those idiots armed and with half the staff. And a real threat of being fired for being incompetent.

[brutal]

Are they restoring new found data from before the great crash? I swear this is deja vu.

[USAFGopherMike]

... especially after the house just passed on to the senate their mag ban.

State or Fed?

[Great-Kazoo]

State or Fed?

State. The feds will wallow around until they see how many states jump on the BAN Wagon. O will use each states acceptance of any gun ban as proof the American people support tougher gun laws. Once that happens say adios to what's left of Freedom,Until 2014. IF at that time the D's remain in office, by 2016 guns as we know them will be a thing of the past.
OTOH 15million new democratic voters will have become citizens, heroin trade will become legal, as it will be the only pain killer "we the people" can afford under Ocare.