View Full Version : Non NFA Trust?
Since it looks like the ban is going to pass (I'm still holding out hope but not much) I'm wondering how that's going to impact currently owned mags. Since you will not be able to transfer them it seems that they will need to be destroyed or turned in if something happens to you.
So your family can have your rifles but not the mags if nothing is done to insure they can take possession.
I'm not a lawyer but this is how it looks to me.
HoneyBadger
02-15-2013, 16:50
What if I place my mags in my NFA trust right now? I would have to serialize them, but could this protect them?
jackthewall81
02-15-2013, 16:51
Just move to a gun friendly state and you will be ok.
That's what I'm wondering. Would they even need to be serialized?
Just move to a gun friendly state and you will be ok.
Just looking at houses in Plano, TX. Property taxes are high but no state income tax so it's basically a wash.
Just looking at houses in Plano, TX. Property taxes are high but no state income tax so it's basically a wash.
That's one of the areas I've been looking. I have a good friend who moved to Denver from Plano a couple years ago and he said it's a great place to raise a family.
I'd look at a revokable living trust for the mags. That is what I'm thinking. If you even temporarily transfer them at the range (give them to a family member to use) you are in violation. If the entire family is in the trust you should be GTG.
FYI, I'm not (currently) a lawyer.
Mike
Great-Kazoo
02-15-2013, 19:50
If "they" do not know how many magazines you have. How will "they" know what is or is not a family item. This law is unenforceable, unless there is a LE from any agency with an axe to grind what doesn't get posted on the web, does not exist. Magazines, The new marijuana.
NFATrustGuy
02-15-2013, 20:05
I have a tendency to side with Jim on this one. Assuming we're talking about HB 13-1224, there are tons of problems with the law as it is currently proposed. Here's what I wrote to someone who wrote to me just yesterday with questions:
As for whether transferring high capacity mags into the Trust will effectively circumvent the proposed HB 13-1224, it's really anybody's guess. The Bill will undoubtedly be revised before a vote. After the vote, if the law remains as vague an incomplete as the Bill is now, it will then undoubtedly require court interpretation as to how it may or may not apply to corporations and trusts.
This being said, I can't see any real downside to putting the items in the Trust.
If any of my gun trust clients want a form to fill out to transfer your hi-capacity magazines to your Trust, please feel free to email me at:
Rodney <at> WoodardLaw <<dot>> com.
No charge for the form.
Great-Kazoo
02-15-2013, 20:18
I have a tendency to side with Jim on this one. Assuming we're talking about HB 13-1224, there are tons of problems with the law as it is currently proposed. Here's what I wrote to someone who wrote to me just yesterday with questions:
As for whether transferring high capacity mags into the Trust will effectively circumvent the proposed HB 13-1224, it's really anybody's guess. The Bill will undoubtedly be revised before a vote. After the vote, if the law remains as vague an incomplete as the Bill is now, it will then undoubtedly require court interpretation as to how it may or may not apply to corporations and trusts.
This being said, I can't see any real downside to putting the items in the Trust.
If any of my gun trust clients want a form to fill out to transfer your hi-capacity magazines to your Trust, please feel free to email me at:
Rodney <at> WoodardLaw <<dot>> com.
No charge for the form.
So you add X dozen
30 round- AR magazines magpul rev 2 Qty 15
30 round- AK47 steel magazines / mixed mfg Qyt 10
Or something similar? All Ak steel , bakelite, and synthetic mags have no date of mfg.
Kraven251
02-15-2013, 20:22
I have a tendency to side with Jim on this one. Assuming we're talking about HB 13-1224, there are tons of problems with the law as it is currently proposed. Here's what I wrote to someone who wrote to me just yesterday with questions:
As for whether transferring high capacity mags into the Trust will effectively circumvent the proposed HB 13-1224, it's really anybody's guess. The Bill will undoubtedly be revised before a vote. After the vote, if the law remains as vague an incomplete as the Bill is now, it will then undoubtedly require court interpretation as to how it may or may not apply to corporations and trusts.
This being said, I can't see any real downside to putting the items in the Trust.
If any of my gun trust clients want a form to fill out to transfer your hi-capacity magazines to your Trust, please feel free to email me at:
Rodney <at> WoodardLaw <<dot>> com.
No charge for the form.
STANDARD CAPACITY. If you use their language you have already lost.
NFATrustGuy
02-15-2013, 20:35
I thought I was doing alright with the language. [facepalm] At least I didn't call them 'clips,' right?
@Jim: Yep. That's how I'd list them. Manufacturer, description, quantity and that's about it if they're not serialized. As you mentioned in your original post, that's one of the problems with the bill--how do the authorities know what you've got if the purchase and transfer of the items has been unregulated up to this point?
Great-Kazoo
02-15-2013, 20:40
Capricious & Arbitrary
I'm in for $100 towards Gun owners Vs State of CO.
Capricious & Arbitrary
I'm in for $100 towards Gun owners Vs State of CO.
I'm in as well.
My kids are the 4th generation born in CO on my side and 5th or 6th on Kat's; for the most part I never thought we'd leave CO. As for the trust I'm thinking long term. If we stay and CO doesn't go full CA then I'd like to be able to pass on my collection without issues. I'm just trying to picture how they would explain that they owned several 100 mags prior to the law passing when they were 6.
Katastrophic
02-15-2013, 21:04
What if we take pictures of some or all items with a newspaper or something like that?
Great-Kazoo
02-15-2013, 21:17
I'm in as well.
My kids are the 4th generation born in CO on my side and 5th or 6th on Kat's; for the most part I never thought we'd leave CO. As for the trust I'm thinking long term. If we stay and CO doesn't go full CA then I'd like to be able to pass on my collection without issues. I'm just trying to picture how they would explain that they owned several 100 mags prior to the law passing when they were 6.
It is not illegal or any restrictions regarding age limit for owning / possession of an inanimate object. Nor is there any wording (YET) regarding age in the mag ban bill. Picture the items as part of your will. Yes the kids are 6 yrs of age. However in your will (You do have one YES?) i am sure there are items some people might scratch their head wondering why you are leaving your 6yr old a bridgeport, etc.
Remember the wording as it sits (for now) is the Burden of Proof is on the court / LE to prove.
10mm-man
02-15-2013, 21:17
I'm in as well.
My kids are the 4th generation born in CO on my side and 5th or 6th on Kat's; for the most part I never thought we'd leave CO. As for the trust I'm thinking long term. If we stay and CO doesn't go full CA then I'd like to be able to pass on my collection without issues. I'm just trying to picture how they would explain that they owned several 100 mags prior to the law passing when they were 6.
I am 6th generation American and about 4th gen Colorado! WTF has our state become?? Anyway.........
Great-Kazoo
02-15-2013, 21:19
What if we take pictures of some or all items with a newspaper or something like that?
These are pieces of metal & plastic, not Proof of Life. See my previous post regarding burden of proof.
TriggerHappy
02-15-2013, 21:23
Can you put them into an LLC? My NFA stuff is on an LLC, wouldn't mind combining it all.
It is not illegal or any restrictions regarding age limit for owning / possession of an inanimate object. Nor is there any wording (YET) regarding age in the mag ban bill. Picture the items as part of your will. Yes the kids are 6 yrs of age. However in your will (You do have one YES?) i am sure there are items some people might scratch their head wondering why you are leaving your 6yr old a bridgeport, etc.
Remember the wording as it sits (for now) is the Burden of Proof is on the court / LE to prove.
I agree in theory but as the wording stands now I don't believe you would be able to will them to your children and that they would have to own the mags on the effective date. I understand that the burdon of proof is on them but who wants to be the test case?
Great-Kazoo
02-15-2013, 21:44
I agree in theory but as the wording stands now I don't believe you would be able to will them to your children and that they would have to own the mags on the effective date. I understand that the burdon of proof is on them but who wants to be the test case?
Test case, who the hell is going to know ANYTHING? They are yours. if the .gov gets to the point where confiscation/ surrender of magazines is happening. Pieces of paper will mean nothing as the country [hypothetically] would be in flames.
Or the public education system will have done such a good job brain washing / indoctrinating the kids. You will be turned in by them. Nothing to lose all to gain. Do it for the CHILDREN
Test case, who the hell is going to know ANYTHING? They are yours. if the .gov gets to the point where confiscation/ surrender of magazines is happening. Pieces of paper will mean nothing as the country [hypothetically] would be in flames.
Or the public education system will have done such a good job brain washing / indoctrinating the kids. You will be turned in by them. Nothing to lose all to gain. Do it for the CHILDREN
You're fine to believe what you want but I think it's dangerous to think that a time won't come where someone goes to jail for this. By your argument there shouldn't be a problem owning an 11" AR barrel and no registerd SBR lower or how about a semi Uzi or Mac and a stock? After all they're just metal and plastic and who the hell is going to know what you do with them. How about the people who owned the Akins Accelerators? Would you have just advised them to ignore the ATF?
Capricious & Arbitrary
I'm in for $100 towards Gun owners Vs State of CO.
I'll see your $100 and raise it $200. Dead serious.
I'll see your $100 and raise it $200. Dead serious.
Call - That puts us at $500 in this thread. :) I'm out of town for most of the next 2 months but I know 10MM is offering space for people to meet to come up with a plan.
Edit: Just realized Dingo may have meant $300, either way I'm in since I already called.
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