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View Full Version : Ate some bad fish? need to puke? LA times article about the folly of fighting tyranny.



stevelkinevil
02-15-2013, 20:30
SACRAMENTO — The nutty notion that a citizen can be heavily enough armed to fight off the government went up in smoke near Big Bear Lake.

This may sound crazy to most normal people, but there are some obsessed gun owners — although a minority, surely — who believe they need to arm themselves to perhaps combat government oppression.

One reader wrote recently that he supported gun control "as long as I'm armed as well as the police," whom he didn't trust and felt he needed to be prepared to battle in a shootout.

I get those emails all the time.

In one recent column, I reprinted some words from a guy who wrote several years ago: "Guns are not for hunting. When will you people figure that out? Guns are for hunting down politicians when they steal your rights away through tyranny. Hello!…

"You can't protect your freedom when the government has more guns than the people."

To which Jeffrey replied: "While the tone of the message you received … may have given you pause, his words themselves should not have.... The [purpose of the] 2nd Amendment is to enable 'the people' … to protect themselves against government tyranny."

From John, referring to the 2nd Amendment: "We have that right, primarily, so we can defend ourselves against the tyranny of government. The Constitution didn't provide for gun ownership so we could shoot turkeys at Thanksgiving.

"I used to think of 2nd Amendment people as 'gun nuts.' Now I believe they are right. The more the executive branch continues to legislate and usurp the powers of Congress, the more I understand the reasoning behind the 2nd Amendment."

Then there are the right-wing racists, like Pam:

"When that redistributionist Marxist [deleted] Obama decides to take away decent people's homes and businesses and give them to the black criminal gangbangers, the garbage illegal aliens [deleted] and the rest of the low information welfare/food stamp crowd who voted for him, we who have our guns can meet them at the door, loaded and ready."

And there are many like Bryan, who asked: "What if the German Jews had been well armed" against Hitler?

My answer: They would have been slaughtered by the Nazi Panzer divisions.

The French and Poles were well armed. How'd that work out?

But, insisted Tom, "throughout world history, superior armies with superior fire power have been defeated by well-motivated forces with little more than small arms."

OK, enough. Suffice that too many people think that private citizens should be sufficiently armed to take on not only the local police, but the Army, the Navy, the Marines and even the Air Force.

They hang onto the words in the 2nd Amendment about the people's right to bear arms "being necessary to the security of a free state," but ignore the part about the militia being "well regulated."

I'm certainly no constitutional lawyer, but it should be obvious to everyone by now that the right to bear arms can be "infringed." We're not allowed to bear bazookas. Or machine guns. No automatic rifles. What's mainly at issue these days are semi-automatics — so-called assault weapons — and mega-magazines that hold more than 10 rounds.

As of this writing, it's not clear what suspected killer Christopher Dorner had in his arsenal. But it was enough to hold off law enforcement in Tuesday's shootout until someone upped the firepower, literally, by lobbying incendiary tear gas into the cabin where the axed cop apparently was making a last stand against the government.

The government virtually always wins.

Dorner could have read up on Randy Weaver at Ruby Ridge. Or the Branch Davidians near Waco.

Or Jeff Davis of Virginia. There's an excellent movie out about that called "Lincoln." Davis' rebels failed to fight off northern "tyranny" — and back then the U.S. government didn't have tanks or drones, let alone ballistic missiles.

Yes, the 2nd Amendment was written by patriots who did successfully rebel against the tyranny of a foreign power. But neither Washington, D.C., nor the LAPD is a foreign power. Americans are not going to permit Uzi-armed citizens to rebel against their country, regardless of any "tyranny" some disgruntled misfits might perceive.

We hire cops to protect us against criminals and crazies. The idea that we should allow citizens to be as well armed as the police — and, unfortunately, too many are armed better — is simply idiotic.

That doesn't mean a few cops aren't corrupt, don't act like thugs or aren't clueless — like the L.A. police who shot at two female paper deliverers, hitting one 71-year-old twice in the back. But that calls for firing, not armed citizen rebellion.

All those tens of millions of high-powered weapons out there — stacked in arsenals to fight off tyranny — are available for criminals to steal or to be wielded by nut jobs, like Dorner.

The citizens' militia needs to be better regulated.

Guns for hunting turkeys and skeet shooting, yes.

Guns for protection against bad guys, sure.

Guns to overthrow tyranny, irrational. That's why our founders gave us the ballot box.

Dorner case shows folly of arming oneself to combat government - latimes.com (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-cap-guns-20130214,0,702502,full.column)

BigDee
02-15-2013, 20:44
"We hire cops to protect us against criminals and crazies. The idea that we should allow citizens to be as well armed as the police — and, unfortunately, too many are armed better — is simply idiotic."


LOL. Cops can't do anything until the criminals and crazies have imposed their will. By the time cops get involved it's often far to late and the person requiring assistance is a victim, in many cases a dead victim. Sadly, these idiots and their mindset is winning despite the fact that there is more than enough evidence to support the idea that their thought process if completely flawed.

Kraven251
02-15-2013, 20:52
the level of ignorance and stupid in that, just makes me wonder when yellowstone is going to erupt maybe kick off the fault line too

Great-Kazoo
02-15-2013, 21:30
Dear Sir:

The French and Poles were well armed. How'd that work out?

Take in to account (for history's sake) the superior military tactics [Blitzkrieg] ring any bells? of the German air force and army. Combined with their "SUPERIOR" weaponry. Then make sure [once again history] the over whelming might massed in one area fighting an under ARMED under Populated force and you might grasp why the french & poles lost. Actually the french capitulated , in of all places where the Armistice was signed after WWI

I suggest you stick to food and movie reviews and leave actual UNBIASED REPORTING to the professionals, which sadly enough have gone the way of the rotary phone.

Yours in Peace & Wartime
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

HoneyBadger
02-15-2013, 22:01
Funny, because I think I actually DID eat some bad fish for dinner... I've been shitting liquid ever since I finished doing the dishes.

Irving
02-15-2013, 22:06
What if there were FIVE Chris Dorner's, and they spread themselves out?

BPTactical
02-15-2013, 22:22
I dunno, it seems a bunch of bassackwards primitive societies have been able to cause organized forces some considerable misery.....

Great-Kazoo
02-15-2013, 22:24
I dunno, it seems a bunch of bassackwards primitive societies have been able to cause organized forces some considerable misery.....

Russians 10 years, American and "WOT" forces 10 years. Average education [elementary] with financial backing from the same folks who sell us petroleum products.

BPTactical
02-15-2013, 22:27
Lets not forget the black pajama guys of a little southeast Asian country.....

Great-Kazoo
02-15-2013, 22:29
Lets not forget the black pajama guys of a little southeast Asian country.....

LG Flat Screen tv's? no shit

Bailey Guns
02-16-2013, 08:36
What if there were FIVE Chris Dorner's, and they spread themselves out?

Exactly. Or 25, operating in groups of 2 or 3 using good guerrilla tactics and not holing up in a cabin with limited egress options. What this monkey-ass also isn't taking into account is the gov't isn't going to be driving tanks down main street firing indiscriminately at one or two bad guys...or using F-16s for airstrikes in downtown Omaha.

I'd say a few guys operating together would eventually be overwhelmed but not before they could wreak havoc on the LAPD.

Byte Stryke
02-16-2013, 09:16
consider the fact that a bunch of goat-pounders from the stone age have fought the two superpowers of the world for a combined length of more than 14 years with nothing more than small arms and stolen explosives and armaments.
its not the tool, but the heart of the weapon.

funkymonkey1111
02-16-2013, 09:17
Lets not forget the black pajama guys of a little southeast Asian country.....

or some guys back in 1775.

right, nobody, not even the great General Custer, is going to win a shootout surrounded by a superior force with superior firepower.

Great-Kazoo
02-16-2013, 09:25
or some guys back in 1775.

right, nobody, not even the great General Custer, is going to win a shootout surrounded by a superior force with superior firepower.

Or as byte mentioned. Will Power and the heart / conviction.

Irving
02-16-2013, 09:53
I think Byte is right, but have no idea how to proceed. Perhaps get the Sheriffs involved?

Dingo
02-16-2013, 10:15
Funny, because I think I actually DID eat some bad fish for dinner... I've been shitting liquid ever since I finished doing the dishes.

Does this mean that you're temporarily giving a shit? Or ten? :-)

wreave
02-16-2013, 10:37
At the final bell the score was 4-1.

Gun owners outnumber police and military by at least an order of magnitude, right? Getting into a civil war is pretty far down my list of things I want to do, but in this case, the data show exactly the opposite of what the article wishes to "prove".

SAnd
02-16-2013, 11:42
Has anybody read "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross?

ChadAmberg
02-16-2013, 14:58
I'm sick and tired of reading trash like this made by sub-humans.

Sharpienads
02-16-2013, 15:28
I've yet to meet an AF pilot that says he'll be on the side of the government if/when SHTF. I've met plenty that say they won't be on that side.

HoneyBadger
02-16-2013, 15:30
Does this mean that you're temporarily giving a shit? Or ten? :-)

I'm not sure if I should count it as one continuous sh!t or the 20+ episodes of explosive diarrhea. Either way, we're still talking about the article, right? [pileoshit]

brutal
02-16-2013, 15:55
They hang onto the words in the 2nd Amendment about the people's right to bear arms "being necessary to the security of a free state," but ignore the part about the militia being "well regulated."

Every time I see this back-assward interpretation I realize how utterly ignorant the author is. Un-freakin-believable these people got through the education system.

Sharpienads
02-16-2013, 16:10
Every time I see this back-assward interpretation I realize how utterly ignorant the author is. Un-freakin-believable these people got through the education system.

Yep. They'd shit bricks if they found out that the "regulate" part really means something along the lines of "By law, all capable FAGs (Fighting Age Guys ([Tooth])) will own an AR type rifle, train with it, caress it, love it, have at least 1k rounds of ammo, and have a 72 hour BOB ready to go at a moment's notice in cares we need to lay the smack down on a foreign or domestic enemy".

Singlestack
02-16-2013, 16:11
Dear Sir:

The French and Poles were well armed. How'd that work out?

Take in to account (for history's sake) the superior military tactics [Blitzkrieg] ring any bells? of the German air force and army. Combined with their "SUPERIOR" weaponry. Then make sure [once again history] the over whelming might massed in one area fighting an under ARMED under Populated force and you might grasp why the french & poles lost. Actually the french capitulated , in of all places where the Armistice was signed after WWI

I suggest you stick to food and movie reviews and leave actual UNBIASED REPORTING to the professionals, which sadly enough have gone the way of the rotary phone.

Yours in Peace & Wartime
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The better analogy is the french Maquisards and other resistance forces who fought against the German occupiers from May 1940 - Sept 1944 (after the breakout). Small groups, guerrilla tactics, and frequent disruption and mayhem. French resistance were never wiped out and killed/wounded thousands of German soldiers and french sympathizers.

Great-Kazoo
02-16-2013, 18:32
Has anybody read "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross?

never heard of it;)

Great-Kazoo
02-16-2013, 18:34
The better analogy is the french Maquisards and other resistance forces who fought against the German occupiers from May 1940 - Sept 1944 (after the breakout). Small groups, guerrilla tactics, and frequent disruption and mayhem. French resistance were never wiped out and killed/wounded thousands of German soldiers and french sympathizers.

Better or not, the stupid fuks have no clue, or could care less about inalienable rights. If i were some Illegal with 2 felonies against me he'd be kissing my ass and balling how unjust the White man is.

robertcolorado2009
02-16-2013, 19:48
Seriously, if it came down to it, what would we/you/us, do? It would be just like Syria right now. The government would say it's insurgents, we'd be saying it's the government, the press would fuck all of us. What would we do, really, if it came down to it?

tmckay2
02-16-2013, 20:31
Seriously, if it came down to it, what would we/you/us, do? It would be just like Syria right now. The government would say it's insurgents, we'd be saying it's the government, the press would fuck all of us. What would we do, really, if it came down to it?

most people wouldn't do anything. most talk big like they would, but the government isn't stupid enough to just outwardly oppress everyone. they'd paint it as citizens as the bad guys, a decent amount of the country would agree, if they came and said give us your guns or you go to jail, most would give their guns. its sad but true. now if a civil war already broke out and there were clear sides, thats different. but when feeling you are alone and the only one taking the risk most wouldn't do it.

sabot_round
02-16-2013, 21:18
LA times and their whole crew can go blow goats in the middle east!! I think it's time for that earthquake!!

SR

Dlesh123
02-16-2013, 22:26
"This may sound crazy to most normal people, but there are some obsessed gun owners — although a minority, surely — who believe they need to arm themselves to perhaps combat government oppression."


If the liberals are not afraid of us taking up arms against them, then why are they working so hard to disarm us?

BPTactical
02-17-2013, 00:52
Seriously, if it came down to it, what would we/you/us, do? It would be just like Syria right now. The government would say it's insurgents, we'd be saying it's the government, the press would fuck all of us. What would we do, really, if it came down to it?

And this is why the press is such a vulnerable thing in such a scenario.

KestrelBike
02-17-2013, 02:21
Funny, because I think I actually DID eat some bad fish for dinner... I've been shitting liquid ever since I finished doing the dishes.

honeybadger thank you so much for such a wonderful description.