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View Full Version : Found my Grail Gun, SVT 40 (some photos)



stubbicatt
02-18-2013, 18:40
I remember when the Russians offloaded a bunch of really neat surplus rifles back in the early or mid 90's. At that time I was new to firearms, having only been messing with them for about 10 years prior, and in the pre-internet days, when knowledge was more rarified than it is now, housed as it was in the minds of a few experts, I learned of the SVT 40 or "Tokarev" rifle as folks were wont to call it in those days. You could buy them for $199 on sale. They sold quickly. Then, as now, by executive order I understand, further imports were banned.

I passed on several that were available then, as I was into other firearms at that time.

Years passed, and I realized what a mistake it was not to buy at least one of them at that time. I've been watching auction sites and WTS postings for some time and never was able to find one I was willing to buy. I DID see an original sniper at a dealer in Colorado Springs, but at a price well north of $2k I was not able to swing that deal at that time.

At the Tanner gunshow this weekend, nearly lost in a jumble of other odds and ends, there it was. A very nice example of SVT 40, dated 1941, from Tula arsenal. No import marks on it anywhere, and bolt and carrier in the white. The rifle just screamed of a pre GCA 1968 import, such as those surplussed by Finland in 1954 or so. But no telltale "SA" acceptance mark on it anywhere. Mystery rifle? A bring back from some conflict somewhere? I don't know but the mysterious origin clenched the deal.

Paid more than I wanted to, but I brought it on home. Gas system is as expected, a bit corroded, but on a positive note the bore is bright and shiny with square shoulders on the lands, and the gas regulator set at .9 still cycled the action reliably. --I ordered up a stainless tappet/piston set, which should arrive in a couple weeks I'd guess, with which I ought to be able to shoot corrosive ammo without causing any more wear or deterioration to the original parts.

To parse a few words, here are some photos:

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j187/stubbicatt/Tula%20SVT40/IMG_0188_zps7f52566f.jpg

Early style muzzle brake and original cleaning rod. Not original sling, soon to be rectified.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j187/stubbicatt/Tula%20SVT40/IMG_0187_zpsd89a8fd8.jpg

Original Soviet era magazine, and last round bolt hold open.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j187/stubbicatt/Tula%20SVT40/IMG_0186_zps8136e846.jpg

Starboard side full length view.

Upon taking the rifle apart, I was really impressed with the design, if not the execution, of this rifle. Typical to war time production, the outside finish of the milled parts such as the receiver, and areas such as the underside of the bolt carrier are pretty rough. The magazine itself has to be made of a very thick gage steel. I saw several design elements that show up on later rifles... ferinstance, the tilting bolt, ejector block, and the dust cover, which show up on the FAL, the fluted chamber (at least the neck and shoulder) common to the HK designs. The detachable box magazine, which while not originally introduced in this rifle, was certainly innovative for its time (pre 1938 genesis). The ease of installing sniper scopes, not so different in concept from the HK claw mount, while different in execution.

I always thought the receiver dustcover would be a stamping, a la FAL, but it is machined.

There is a little swinging door on the rear of the receiver, which when opened serves a dual function. If one presses a loaded cartridge, bullet-first, in there, it pops the trigger group out the bottom of the rifle, and secondly, if one wishes to, one can easily slide a cleaning rod through the little hole to clean the barrel from the breech. Nice touch I thought. :) The muzzle brake does tend to make the rifle even louder than a Mosin Nagant while shooting the same ammunition, which has a very distinct basso report which tends to get people's attention at the range.

It is suitably accurate, or at least as accurate as I am, which with not-so-great vision I have difficulty seeing the front sight post. :)

In short, I had been looking for one of these rifles for many, many, years. Without forewarning, there it was at the local gunshow. And to think all I had to do was to sell a SIG556 which really didn't speak to me, and received in its place my "grail gun."

Regards,
Stubb

ray1970
02-18-2013, 18:49
I regret passing up on these things years ago. These are kind of like Russia's Garand.

Looks nice.

zteknik
02-18-2013, 20:16
Very nice score!!
I absolutely love mine,they will shoot any x54 without a problem.They dent the heck out of brass though..

A lot of the earlier imports did not have import marks on them,so it is quite common to see them without the import marks,but you just dont see SVT'S around hardly anymore.
A PPSH sling would be correct for it as that is what they issued for those rifles ,and also Mosin slings-basicly any soviet issue sling will be correct.
Check with Richard at APEX gunparts,they should have them in stock.

Enjoy your new found treasure and give us a range report!
ETA -With shot groupings [Beer]

William
02-18-2013, 20:45
Very nice commie gun! I love guns like that with history behind them.

roberth
02-19-2013, 21:15
Congratulations, cool rifle.

sneakerd
02-19-2013, 22:22
I bought one of the very early ones, no import marks just like yours, in the late 80's or very early 90's. Never tried to fire it or even bought ammo for it. When I moved here from Chicago I needed a grubstake, so sold quite a few of my guns to a police lieutenant I knew, who was an FFL dealer and a friend. He called me a while later and said-"Did you know that SVT was full-auto?" You might take a close look at yours. As I said, he was a friend. Don't know what he did with it. I'm pretty sure it went down in a boat accident.

jreifsch80
02-20-2013, 01:20
very nice.. bobby z let me shoot his bassically feels like a big accurate sks thumper lol

jerrymrc
02-20-2013, 08:35
very nice.. bobby z let me shoot his bassically feels like a big accurate sks thumper lol

That was my thought as well. Been over 10 years since I shot one but you never forget. Very nice piece Stubbicatt. [Beer][39]

palepainter
02-20-2013, 10:09
That is one sweet rifle. I was searching for one a few years back.

NGCSUGrad09
02-20-2013, 15:17
Nice rifle. There are a few modern guns that draw some concepts from the SVT-40.

jreifsch80
02-20-2013, 19:55
Remember the daddy of the FAL is the fn-49 with a tilting bolt although it was made after the war patents were taken out for its design in the 30's

by the way is yours cut for a scope mount?

stubbicatt
02-21-2013, 14:44
There are many design elements on this rifle that show up later.

I'm not so sure about the tipping bolt, and I understand there is controversy concerning whether FN or the Tokarev design bureau were working independently or whether there might have been some industrial espionage... hard to say. I can say that the execution of this bolt is far more classy than the FN! :) The SVT also has the fluted neck and shoulder in the chamber, which, when taken a bit further down the chamber walls, was used by HK in their roller lockers. The gas system is very reminiscent of the one used on the SVD, a sort of quasi "live rod," quasi floated type of operating rod.

This example has the rails (it is a 1941 Tula) but no notch. If I can't get a better glasses prescription so I can see the front sight, that might change.

The bore is beautiful. Bright and shiny with no pitting I can see (ha!), and nice squared off rifling shoulders. The finish on the metal parts is good, I don't think it was rearsenaled. I think the finish is original. It is a mixmaster of parts with a Tula receiver number matching the bolt, the Tula bolt carrier is not matching and the trigger group is Ishevsk, also non matching numbers, but every visible part of the trigger group is "arrow in triangle" Ishevsk. The bolt and carrier are in the white, as is common with SA marked examples, but there is no SA on this one. Mystery?

In all I am happy. I am sure there are other more "correct" examples. It seems to shoot well. I've run some Polish and Czech silvertip thru it, and have on order some Russian light ball silver tip. I understand it was designed to be used with the yellow tip heavy ball, but elsewhere on the net I have read of ruined examples which shot the heavy ball. I may try some Wolf Gold I bought several years ago which has 180 grain hunting bullets and brass cases. I don't know.

stubbicatt
02-21-2013, 14:58
I bought one of the very early ones, no import marks just like yours, in the late 80's or very early 90's. Never tried to fire it or even bought ammo for it. When I moved here from Chicago I needed a grubstake, so sold quite a few of my guns to a police lieutenant I knew, who was an FFL dealer and a friend. He called me a while later and said-"Did you know that SVT was full-auto?" You might take a close look at yours. As I said, he was a friend. Don't know what he did with it. I'm pretty sure it went down in a boat accident.

Oh yes, the AVT. I remember that a few of them came in the country. They are readily identifiable in that the safety not only pivots towards the portside of the rifle, but to the starboard. If pivoted to the starboard, it will expend all 10 rounds in the mag on one trigger pull. There are some SVT rifles placed in AVT stocks with the two relief cuts for the safety lever, but the SVT lever won't pivot to starboard, only towards the portside. I guess the AVT stock has a thicker wrist section, where the SVT stocks were wont to split.

Sorry I missed this posting earlier.

Aardvark
03-07-2013, 23:07
I had a mismatched SVT, purchased back in 92 from Scotties Guns in Denver. It was a few years later all the nice ones made it in country, but I didn't buy another. I ended up selling the one I had to finance other items (SVD). Even with a corroded bore and mismatched, that rifle could hold it's own on the range. I definately miss it and would jump at another for the right price.

mrghost
03-07-2013, 23:19
Never heard anything about these rifles but it looks really cool. Congrats on finding it.

relichunter
03-08-2013, 00:38
I managed to get one of these from a guy in NC several years ago. Money got tight and I had to sell it. I asked the guy to let me know if he ever wanted to sell it. I was shocked when he called me a year later and sold it back to me. I love it! Very light weight and looks sleek and is so simple to take apart. The only complaint, I wish the gas adjustment didn't require a special tool.

Troublco
03-13-2013, 08:39
I had one of these too, and it was neat. I wound up selling it and my VZ52 years ago, and I regret it. Somehow I did hold on to my Swede Ljungman though; paid $109 for it in '90 and it came with a spare parts pack, sling, and bayonet. Ah, the good old days.

stubbicatt
03-14-2013, 17:03
Even more mysteries. Some things just don't jump out at you at first, but then...

As I understand it, Tula Arsenal in 1941 was under siege. The Nazis really were at the gate. The Ishevsk Arsenal was located further east in the country, out of the immediate harm's way.

So, as many of you know, in the mid 90's there was a shipment of these rifles from Russia which had been refurbished after the war. They are typically identified by a plum or gold colored bolt and carrier, and the serial numbers of the components are often electropencil engraved "forced matched." I understand it is uncommon to find them with stamped serial numbers all matching.

So upon first inspection I missed something. I noticed that the bolt serial number is deeply stamped into the bottom of the bolt, and is visible through the magazine well of the rifle. It matches the receiver serial number. The carrier serial number does not match the bolt or receiver. The finish on the rifle is that typical Soviet really black bluing, and is uniformly applied, including over the serial number on the port side forward receiver ring. So far so good.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j187/stubbicatt/Tula%20SVT40/IMG_0190_zps9bef6703.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j187/stubbicatt/Tula%20SVT40/IMG_0192_zps4e8e3b01.jpg

The sight base bears the Izhevsk triangle and arrow, the receiver the Tula star arsenal marks. Oddly enough, the stamped serial numbered bolt also bears an Izhevsk arsenal mark on it? What is this?

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j187/stubbicatt/Tula%20SVT40/IMG_0193_zps241e57bd.jpg

Upon re examination of the receiver number, the ring appears to have been perhaps ground down, and a different serial number stamped into the steel, and then the receiver finished with that bluing. At least it doesn't have the uniform rounded appearance of the starboard side receiver ring, and the serial numbers themselves are not uniformly spaced, or in a straight line as are others I have seen.

After some reflection, I have concluded that at some time in its life, this receiver may have been rebarreled with an Izhevsk front end, an Izhevsk bolt, and the receiver serial number scrubbed and then stamped to match that of the bolt. -Who knows what happened to the original bolt carrier. I haven't taken the action from the stock to look for arsenal markings on the barrel or the front sight/gas block/brake assembly.

I began to wonder then, whether in 1941, the date of the receiver, or early 1942 perhaps, while Tula was under seige, whether this receiver made its way further east to Izhevsk to be finished up with a barrel and "front end" at that arsenal? I do not know, but it is fascinating to me to see the Izhevsk bolt bearing the same stamped serial number as the receiver. Odd too that the receiver ring appears to have been renumbered, rather than simply stamping the bolt assembly with the receiver number?

Neat thing about the C&R firearms is the history they possess, and sometimes, the mysteries they present.

zteknik
03-14-2013, 21:41
If I remember correctly the Korov arsenal had simillar markings as Ishevesk.I'm not quite sure what dates they produced them but it is possible it could be one of those.
I remember on one of the ak boards someone was discussing it and making some good points.
If I find it again I'll post down the info.

To me the C&R's are like a living history lesson and a mystery novel all wrapped up in one!Trying do deciepher all that history of when where and why is the best part,other than shooting them.But while shooting something that has some history just gives you a whole different feeling..[Beer]

zteknik
03-14-2013, 22:06
Here is the article I was refering to http://www.theakforum.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=172384
This one is dated 42 and has the Tula stamp and Finnish capture stamps as well.

stubbicatt
03-15-2013, 06:48
I may skip out on work early today and go and shoot this thing a little bit. It is shooting high, so I'll see if my SKS sight tool will enable me to change this behavior.

PS. The Tapco SKS sight adjustment tool I bought at 5280 Armory served pretty well. I removed the pusher from the "C" shaped block and used it to engage the rectangular bearing surface on the sight post. It unscrewed the sight post admirably, and now I have good elevation and windage. Surprisingly, the rifle will hit a stump at 500 yards. Recoil is quite mild, it is different in character, but about like an SKS in overall "thump."

If you don't have one of these rifles, you really should get one. What an elegant design.

zzzippper
07-23-2013, 15:45
Very nice! Can you tell us what you paid for it?