Fast 38 Speciial?

[michael_aos]

What's the max -- or how can I figure it out -- amount of Titegroup I can load with a Montana Gold 125gr JHP and still stay below +P pressure?

I'm thinking around 4.6gr, but I'm not finding a lot of data.

Mike

[Colorado Osprey]

Whoops double post

[Colorado Osprey]

Mike I know you probably already know this but for the other novice reloaders:

go to http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp and there is load data for their powders.

Their load data for 125 grain Hornady XTP 38 special loads using Titegroup has a starting charge weight of 4.3grains for 953ft/sec up to 4.6grains at 1010ft/sec at 15.6k CUP for pressure.

Their load data for 125 grain cast is from 3.2grains to 3.8 grains with velocities from 856-985ft/sec at 12k CUP

They also list 38 Special +P loads with 5.0 grains at 1069ft/sec at 18.7k CUP

Just a little powder makes a huge change in these little catridges.

Download all their load data here: (warning large pdf file)
http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Hodgdon%20Basic%20Manual.pdf

[michael_aos]

I had seen that entry. I was hoping for an additional source to corroborate.

I've been using ~4.5gr of Titegroup. I think I need to crimp a little more though. These are running about 850fps and feel like a .22LR.

I'd sure like to stick with Titegroup, but I don't think it's going to take me to 1000fps from a 4" revolver.

What would be a better powder choice to hit 1000fps and still stay within regular 38-Special pressure limits?

Mike

[Colorado Osprey]

Sierra manual lists Bullseye, 231, AA#2, Viht N320, AA#5, Unique, Univ. Clays, WAP, HS-6 and Blue Dot have 38 special standard loads at 1000ft/sec.
N320,AA#5,Unique, Univ. Clays and HS-6 should get you there pretty easy and over.


HS-6 will get you to 1150-ft/sec at 8.1 grains

[michael_aos]

I think I've got the same manual. Note the test-barrel they used is 6".

I'm trying to hit 1000fps from a 4" barrel.

The powder-drop on my Dillon RL550B isn't 100% accurate, but it's currently throwing ~4.4gr of Titegroup, give or take about .1gr.

That's good for ~900fps from the revolver at ~1027fps from my wife's 1866.

I do have some N320 I could try.

Any guesses how HS-6 meters compared to Titegroup or N320?

Mike

[Concealed45_1911]

If you keep trying to match velocity of a longer barreled firearm and go above max load in the manual your gonna overpressure you gun. its gonna take alot more chamber pressure to get the velocity of a longer barrel.

[michael_aos]

If you keep trying to match velocity of a longer barreled firearm and go above max load in the manual your gonna overpressure you gun. its gonna take alot more chamber pressure to get the velocity of a longer barrel.

It doesn't seem "unreasonable" to me that an 1150fps load in a 6" barrel could make 1000fps in a 4" barrel...

Or that there isn't some combination that will yield 1000fps in a 4" barrel while maintaining safe pressure levels.

Mike

[michael_aos]

If you keep trying to match velocity of a longer barreled firearm

Pretty sure I never said anything even remotely similar to that...

That's not what I'm trying to do.

Please start over at the beginning of the thread.

Mike

[michael_aos]

Quickload predicts ~980fps with 7.5gr of HS-6 @ 16733psi (4" bbl).

Only 84.89% of propellant burnt though. Should I be concerned about that?

The prediction for the 1866 is pretty awesome @ ~1442fps!

Unique looks promising. QL predicts ~972fps with a 94.72% burnt in a 4" bbl, and ~1406fps from the 1866.

I may start-over with N320, just because I already have some. QL predicts 940fps & 1275fps, respectively.

As an aside, Buffalo Bore claims 1078fps at SAAMI pressure from a 4" barrel with their "special" powder.

Mike

[michael_aos]

Still poking around in QL.

Noticed it predicts 985fps with VV 3N37.

Actually looks like a better choice ("on paper") than HS-6.

Mike

[Colorado Osprey]

Mike....Mike...Mike
Ya made me break out my plethera of reloading manuals.
Only 1...count it 1 of over 20 manuals had a 4" barrel listed in the 38 special in load development.

Hornady 3rd Edition page 341
Load developed using a S&W Model 15 4"
1 in 18.75 twist
Frontier brass
Fed 100 primers

6.1 grains of Unique at 1000ft/sec

All their other loads listed at or above 1000ft/sec are considered +P loads.

[Colorado Osprey]

Only 84.89% of propellant burnt though. Should I be concerned about that?

No... save them for night fire..... that means almost 15% of the powder will burn outside the gun and will make a cool muzzle blast!

[michael_aos]

6.1 grains of Unique at 1000ft/sec

Very cool. Thank you.

As I mentioned, I've been poking around in QL.

It predicts ~997fps with 9.6gr of Blue Dot @ 16958psi.

Only 66.51% of propellent burnt though. Should that concern me?

My version of QL doesn't include VV 3N38. It might hold promise.

VV N350 is right in there @ 990fps.

Mike

[<MADDOG>]

Forgive me if I'm foolish, but why the magical 1000FPS mark? The energy gain will not be significant enough to your target if you hit it....

[michael_aos]

Forgive me if I'm foolish, but why the magical 1000FPS mark? The energy gain will not be significant enough to your target if you hit it....

Nothing "magical", per se. I just really wanted to hit a 125PF with the 125gr bullet.

To do that, I need ~1000fps.

Mike

[michael_aos]

why the magical 1000FPS mark?

I do still tend to think it's "do-able".

I'd like to load up 3K or so of these, and I'd kind of like to get it right the first time.

I hate those "I could have had a V8" (smacks forehead) moments.

Mike

[Colorado Osprey]

So I was a little bored and started playing with a ballistics calculator.
http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/ballistics/traj_basic/traj_basic.html

Anyway dropped in the specs for 38 special 125 grain at 1000ft/sec and there is little energy gain by getting velocity up to 1000ft/sec over say 980ft/sec. It would be almost the equivalent of shooting 10 yards closer.(these are corrected for 6500ft altitude)

Muzzle
1000ft/sec vs 980
277ft/lbs of energy vs 265

10yards
990ft/sec vs 971
272ft/lbs vs 261

20 yards
981ft/sec vs 962
267ft/lbs vs 257

Who knows??/ Is that worth it to you Mike?
If so I understand.. Personally I went the other way though and load +P 38 Special loads in a 357 magnum instead of shooting magnum loads in my snubbie.
My full size 357's get magnum loads.... sorry don't own a 38 Special.

[michael_aos]

Not that I had any specific plans to compete with it, but often a 125PF is required to "make minor".

That's basically where I was coming from. Just shooting paper & steel.

Yes, i could get the same PF with 158gr @ 791fps. I just like the dynamics of the 125gr bullet.

My revolvers are rated +P, but I was hoping to come up with a load that could also be used in my Winchester 1866 replica. I'd rather download to the "lowest common denominator" than have two different loads to keep track of.

Mike