Sequestration-anybody else going to be taking a pay cut soon?

[muddywings]

I'm glad sequestration is going to hit and frankly I wouldn't mind a 3% pay cut but getting tagged for a 20% pay cut because I have to feed the the FSA of American is going to piss me off!

I took a 20% pay cut to go from contractor to GS (so I could buy back all my .mil time towards retirement) so this extra 20% is going to have to make me dip into savings until my wife finishes school.

Latest word is furloughs would start 28 April and I guess would go to the end of the fiscal year and I'm hoping they can pull their collective head out of their asses to figure what to trim.

I'll be doing a lot of mt biking on my free time. Who else out there is going to get an extra day off a week?

Rant off.....

[HBARleatherneck]

i seriously doubt this will happen. nobody on either side is going to make cuts or be unpopular. I did get an email from Udall yesterday about the sequestration.

[asmo]

*yawn*..

Take your GS pension and go cry somewhere else.. ;)

[TheGrey]

We might be. It's not a happy thought...but if we end up with an extra day off a week, we're going shooting.

[patrick0685]

sadly ill be in that group

[Zundfolge]

A lot of us in the private sector have taken numerous pay cuts and our jobs are nowhere near as secure as those with government jobs. Its hard to get all that worked up over a bunch of people that generally get paid better than their private sector counterparts having to take a bit of a pay cut (and at worst getting a 3 day weekend ... albeit at their own expense).

Not saying I'm glad some of y'all are going to suffer a tiny bit ... but things are tough all over and at some point if we ever get serious about getting this country's fiscal house in order there's going to have to be cuts that dwarf this goofy little "sequester" (which isn't actually cuts anyway, just reductions in the rate of growth) exponentially.

[Blockhead]

I don't think anyone facing a 20% pay cut would call it "goofy."

[Aloha_Shooter]

It seems like a more massive hit now precisely because 1) the Administration is intentionally taking the cuts where it hurts people the most and is most visible, 2) the Administration and Democrats in Congress avoided taking the cuts for the past 8-10 months so now have to swallow them all over the next few months, 3) Obama is intentionally using it as a political tool against the Republicans.

[motohooligan]

A lot of us in the private sector have taken numerous pay cuts and our jobs are nowhere near as secure as those with government jobs. Its hard to get all that worked up over a bunch of people that generally get paid better than their private sector counterparts having to take a bit of a pay cut (and at worst getting a 3 day weekend ... albeit at their own expense).

Not saying I'm glad some of y'all are going to suffer a tiny bit ... but things are tough all over and at some point if we ever get serious about getting this country's fiscal house in order there's going to have to be cuts that dwarf this goofy little "sequester" (which isn't actually cuts anyway, just reductions in the rate of growth) exponentially.

I think you are the first person I've ever heard saying government workers get paid more than private sector. In my experience (as a currently unemployed former state and fed .gov employee) it is quite the opposite. My sister in-law is a government contractor. She was looking at a similar GS position and it was almost $30,000 less per year. And right now government jobs aren't all that secure (at least DOD civ jobs).

[hatidua]

A lot of us in the private sector have taken numerous pay cuts and our jobs are nowhere near as secure as those with government jobs. Its hard to get all that worked up over a bunch of people that generally get paid better than their private sector counterparts having to take a bit of a pay cut (and at worst getting a 3 day weekend ... albeit at their own expense).


Well put.

[muddywings]

I think you are the first person I've ever heard saying government workers get paid more than private sector. In my experience (as a currently unemployed former state and fed .gov employee) it is quite the opposite. My sister in-law is a government contractor. She was looking at a similar GS position and it was almost $30,000 less per year. And right now government jobs aren't all that secure (at least DOD civ jobs).

Yup, I agree with you there. For the past 6 years I was in the private sector taking those pay cuts, pay freezes and battling my way above my peers to stay employed. While the GS position is more secure, granted with a 20% pay cut, I also took that private sector pay and cut it 20% to take the same job as a .gov employee (before this sequestration BS). Other's who have jumped from contractor to GS all say the same thing.

Just because 80% of government employees are lazy and make more than they are worth, doesn't mean they make more than their civilian employed lazy counterparts.

One of the biggest reason's I took this gig though is I'm the only GS in the office. Everybody else is prone to cycling out so I'm the continuity, which means unless the entire office gets slashed or the base gets BRACed, both which are highly unlikely, I'll keep the job for the long term and enjoy my job security. I know offices on this base that are fat with fat GS employees and would be easy to trim some of that.

I guess I'm just frustrated that the idea of allowing DOD to target the cuts more precisely has been shot down by senior leadership from the (D) side.

Anyways, I'll take my spears for my rant whether they are in jest or serious.

I won't have the spare cash to shoot as much but if anybody in CSprings wants to mt bike.....let me know!

[mb504]

Couldn't the pentagon just close the 234 military golf courses and pretty much leave everything else alone? At least that would cover the .mil part.

[Inconel710]

Couldn't the pentagon just close the 234 military golf courses and pretty much leave everything else alone? At least that would cover the .mil part.

They don't want a metric butt-ton of retired Air Force Colonels marching on Washington. [ROFL1]

[Hoser]

It isnt just pay cuts. Lots of people will get the axe. We will get a big cut in flying hours.

Everyone will feel it. Not just GS employees.

[hatidua]

Everyone wants the cuts to only affect someone else, not them. The country is going to need to either cut back now or cut back later, continuing "as is" just keeps running up the debt. If we carry on long enough we might start to mirror the situation in Greece: too far in the hole but too many gov/state employees who insist that cuts don't happen.

[lex137]

Work is slowing down for our company, missed the first layoffs. Can't wait for spring and summer when work will take off.

[XC700116]

Depends on your field of expertise in the .gov/private sector pay thing. Some fields are more in the private sector and some are more in the govt sector, then break it down to different areas of the same field and you'll find the same.

For instance, My sister is a Nurse at a Max security prison. She makes slightly more than a nurse of her same experience in the same area in the private sector. However she makes a LOT more than a nurse at the VA in the area.

Engineering is another one, depends greatly on geography and the level of an engineer.


That said: IMO you should never count on a .gov job to be there long term, nor a job with a .gov contractor. Political winds blow different directions on the election cycles and put it this way:

What do you think would happen if a true fiscal conservative were elected president and a similar party took over the house and senate?

It wouldn't be good for govt jobs I can tell you that.

[brutal]

Your illustrious leader sure the fuck isn't taking a cut. Exempt.

[muddywings]

Well, I've been part of a draw down before and stepped away from the uniform and survived through hard work so if the job were to be slashed I would just do the same thing I did before. On the DOD side, I would wish that the people in congress would cut programs that the DOD says they don't want vs what some congressman thinks is good for his district and reelection.
If real cuts were to happen, and I mean real cuts that really affected our debt not some bullshit 3% figure that isn't even bringing the budget to where it was last year, then I would take my lumps. I keep my options open. The problem is this little game we are playing isn't doing any good. It's not putting dent in the budget. Raises taxes/revenue won't put a dent in the budget. It's more symbolic of the (R)s attempt to bring down the budget than anything. Stop giving stuff to the Free Shit Army and maybe we'll get somewhere.

[muddywings]

Depends on your field of expertise in the .gov/private sector pay thing. Some fields are more in the private sector and some are more in the govt sector, then break it down to different areas of the same field and you'll find the same.

For instance, My sister is a Nurse at a Max security prison. She makes slightly more than a nurse of her same experience in the same area in the private sector. However she makes a LOT more than a nurse at the VA in the area.

Engineering is another one, depends greatly on geography and the level of an engineer.


That said: IMO you should never count on a .gov job to be there long term, nor a job with a .gov contractor. Political winds blow different directions on the election cycles and put it this way:

What do you think would happen if a true fiscal conservative were elected president and a similar party took over the house and senate?

It wouldn't be good for govt jobs I can tell you that.

While I'm all for comparing nurses to nurses, I don't think comparing working in a Max Security Prison is the same as working at the VA with veterans. She probably should make more....a lot more than her private sector counterparts who are worried about getting pooped on as she is probably more worried about getting shanked and taken hostage.

[jslo]

I think you are the first person I've ever heard saying government workers get paid more than private sector. In my experience (as a currently unemployed former state and fed .gov employee) it is quite the opposite. My sister in-law is a government contractor. She was looking at a similar GS position and it was almost $30,000 less per year. And right now government jobs aren't all that secure (at least DOD civ jobs).
Actually I think you're the first person I've heard say this. Pay, pension and benefits for gov't workers (on avg) is well ahead of private sector.

[muddywings]

Actually I think you're the first person I've heard say this. Pay, pension and benefits for gov't workers (on avg) is well ahead of private sector.

Nope I said it too. In fact, just called another friend who went from private sector to .gov and yup...she took a pay cut. After about 7 years she'll level out due to the step increases. For me it will be about 12 years but I'm hoping to upgrade out of this position long before that. I will say the pension is better, if it will be there 25 years from now....along with social security. And my benefits: co-pays, deductibles and coverage were better with both my contract companies that with .gov.
So it's trade off: pension/job security vs pay/benefits. At least that is how it worked for me (and a friend who works a few floors below me). I can only speak from my own personal experience and have no other data to back up my claims. I guess I (and the people that I know) are just unique?

I actually thought it was funny when I converted to GS and people who I worked with for the past 3 year said, "well at least you'll have benefits now." I was like, "WTF are you talking about, my benefits are worse." They were surprised I had benefits.

[jslo]

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm
This one is a couple years old
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/01/chart-day-federal-government-pay-vs-private-sector-pay
This one is a little newer (and be kind, I know, I know---It's Mother Jones)

[muddywings]

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm
This one is a couple years old
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/01/chart-day-federal-government-pay-vs-private-sector-pay
This one is a little newer (and be kind, I know, I know---It's Mother Jones)


DAMM....I got screwed then!!!! LOL

[hollohas]

Pay cuts for anyone in any job suck. For years now many private sector companies have gone under or couldn't pay the bills and their employees have taken cuts or been laid-off. As unfortunate as it is, government employees will need to face pay cuts and lay-offs too because the government has long since been out of money. I feel terrible for anyone who gets laid-off (and my family has personally had to deal with both pay cuts and layoffs), but let's face it, the government is broke and it's time for it to make cuts just like private companies do when they go bankrupt.

But the biggest BS of all is any government employees that lose jobs will be doing so for largely superficial reasons. The sequester cuts won't actually fix the budget problems so anyone that gets the axe from such cuts will get screwed and the country's debt won't slow down one bit. It's going to take A LOT more to fix this country's debt.

[muddywings]

Pay cuts for anyone in any job suck. For years now many private sector companies have gone under or couldn't pay the bills and their employees have taken cuts or been laid-off. As unfortunate as it is, government employees will need to face pay cuts and lay-offs too because the government has long since been out of money. I feel terrible for anyone who gets laid-off (and my family has personally had to deal with both pay cuts and layoffs), but let's face it, the government is broke and it's time for it to make cuts just like private companies do when they go bankrupt.

But the biggest BS of all is any government employees that lose jobs will be doing so for largely superficial reasons. The sequester cuts won't actually fix the budget problems so anyone that gets the axe from such cuts will get screwed and the country's debt won't slow down one bit. It's going to take A LOT more to fix this country's debt.

Thank you...couldn't have said it better myself (and obviously didn't)

[encorehunter]

I work for local .gov, and I can tell you I am still making basically the same thing I was 8 years ago for pay. Through that time, we have had to take furloughs and increases in insurance, which in the end is a type of pay cut. I don't like the idea of another pay cut, but it just means I will have to tighten my belt more. I do make more at my private sector job, though they are not quite the same field.

[Dave_L]

Nothing like our leader letting the people pay the price for their inability to do a job.

Side not, ICE said they'll have to release "hundreds" of detainee's if this goes through. :rolleyes:

[esaabye]

All I know is that if a 2% cut is the end of the world then the 10+ that we need will never happen. I have worked in gov before, it can be cut without any real damage if they want to.

[jslo]

It is all politics, and at its worst. Military is half the cuts and if they can't find a way to save 40 bil, out of a 3.6 tri budget, then we are in deep shit.

[XC700116]

While I'm all for comparing nurses to nurses, I don't think comparing working in a Max Security Prison is the same as working at the VA with veterans. She probably should make more....a lot more than her private sector counterparts who are worried about getting pooped on as she is probably more worried about getting shanked and taken hostage.


Actually she's much safer there than her previous position at a state hospital where the nurses were both nurses and gaurds. She was regularly assaulted at work at the state hospital, where as now (5 yrs at the prison) she has yet to have a hand layed on her. Because of the protocols the prisoners get to go through before they see the nurses in everything but emergency situations and there is ALWAYS a gaurd with her when she's with an offender. Anecdotally, she lost her job at the state hospital due to budget cuts and the hospital ultimately closing down. She went to the prison for many of the same reasons people here are stating for staying with .gov jobs. The pension she already had 15 years invested in.

Just using it as an example of the where/what aspect of the whole .gov/private sector positions and pay scale. It's a more accurate comparison than saying State/fed/private sector nurses on a blanket statement is all.

[XC700116]

But the biggest BS of all is any government employees that lose jobs will be doing so for largely superficial reasons. The sequester cuts won't actually fix the budget problems so anyone that gets the axe from such cuts will get screwed and the country's debt won't slow down one bit. It's going to take A LOT more to fix this country's debt.

BINGO, couldn't agree more. It's all a politcal power play

[Zundfolge]

I think you are the first person I've ever heard saying government workers get paid more than private sector. In my experience (as a currently unemployed former state and fed .gov employee) it is quite the opposite.

If I'm the first person you've ever heard saying that government workers get paid more than the private sector than you must have got all your news from MSNBC and NPR for the last couple decades.

Government workers almost always make more than their private sector counterparts (especially when you factor in benefits).

http://www.batr.org/negotium/121212.html
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm#chart <- USAToday ... Clearly a right wing biased media outlet
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-6270781-503544.html <- CBS, another bunch of lying right wingers.
http://www.batr.org/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/wm2965_table1.jpg
http://activerain.com/image_store/uploads/4/9/8/3/9/ar128551501593894.JPG
http://www.investors.com/image/2A1main_120926.png.cms

[muddywings]

I guess what I'm getting at here is a blanket cut is stupid. If an employer had to cut costs and had 100 employees in which he knew 10% were lazy POS and 90% were hard working would he:
A: give everybody a 10% pay cut?
B: just trim the fat and can the lazy mofos?

Could DOD use a cut 10% cut or more-absolutely. Should we stop giving out 'Obamaphones'- yup. Are all .gov employees lazy-no. Do all DOD employees deserve a 20% pay cut because lawmakers and POTUS can't figure out that social programs are drowning us in debt-I have my opinions?

[Zundfolge]

I guess what I'm getting at here is a blanket cut is stupid.
I agree with that.

Whats worse is that the cuts are targeted to make things look worse than they are. It's called The Washington Monument Ploy (http://financecareers.about.com/od/rz/g/Washington-Monument-Ploy.htm).


Also its not going to be a full "20% pay cut" because the furloughs aren't going to be for an entire year.

Yes it's going to suck for those Federal employees (I hate the word "workers" ... its too commie), but its not going to be forever and at least they're not laying all of you off.

When you figure in the 10% pay cut I got over a year ago (was only supposed to be for a couple months) along with being cut to part time for a couple of months last year and our company has dropped health care coverage and any other benefits (after laying off a big chunk of the staff so we're all doing the work of 1.5-3 people) and then the fact that payroll here is a week behind (with occasional dips into two weeks) and there are a TON of companies in this position precisely because our government has become a leviathan, I just can't muster up that much sympathy for government workers FINALLY having to taste some of the recession their bosses have caused.

[muddywings]

If I'm the first person you've ever heard saying that government workers get paid more than the private sector than you must have got all your news from MSNBC and NPR for the last couple decades.

Government workers almost always make more than their private sector counterparts (especially when you factor in benefits).

http://www.batr.org/negotium/121212.html
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm#chart <- USAToday ... Clearly a right wing biased media outlet
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-6270781-503544.html <- CBS, another bunch of lying right wingers.
http://www.batr.org/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/wm2965_table1.jpg
http://activerain.com/image_store/uploads/4/9/8/3/9/ar128551501593894.JPG
http://www.investors.com/image/2A1main_120926.png.cms

Interesting data but, IMHO without going to deep into the articles the sampling is to large.
I've gotta crappy meeting in 5 minutes so my slacking off time is about to end (which only points out that I'm a lazy GS employee) but let me tell you how I read this:
Most of the people in my hallway have PhDs. Most of the people in my building have Master's Degrees. 95% have Bachelor degrees or higher. High School only education accounts for maybe 2% of the people I work around.
Take a sample of who is working for the government and who is working in the private sector. Gov doesn't higher a lot people only qualified to flip whoppers and empty trash cans. Sure, while it does have those types of workers I would suspect (AND AGAIN, MY GUESS W/O ANY RESEARCH HERE) that .gov is employing a higher percentage of higher education and more specially trained people than the private sector.
So while I have seen figures of comparing like vs like jobs and usually it does show that .gov pays higher than the private sector, I think the above graphs could be misleading.

All I can say is from when I went from private sector to .gov, I took a pay cut and benefits reduction for the "job security" and pension that I could.

You all have a good night....I'm out....

[jerrymrc]

*yawn*..

Take your GS pension and go cry somewhere else.. ;)

It is very little I can tell you that.

[Troublco]

It isnt just pay cuts. Lots of people will get the axe. We will get a big cut in flying hours.

Everyone will feel it. Not just GS employees.


Military O&M (Operation and Maintenance) budgets are going to take a big hit. Fortunately, from what I've read the furloughs, should they actually occur, will be limited to 168 hours, non concurrently. So it'll be roughly a day per pay period, 21 days worth. Still going to hurt most folks. I've heard a couple of rather ugly things about what looks like will happen, operationally. Sequestration should have included some penalties for those who are doing/causing it. Some PAINFUL ones.

[Zundfolge]

Take a sample of who is working for the government and who is working in the private sector. Gov doesn't higher a lot people only qualified to flip whoppers and empty trash cans. Sure, while it does have those types of workers I would suspect (AND AGAIN, MY GUESS W/O ANY RESEARCH HERE) that .gov is employing a higher percentage of higher education and more specially trained people than the private sector.
So while I have seen figures of comparing like vs like jobs and usually it does show that .gov pays higher than the private sector, I think the above graphs could be misleading.
All the studies are apples to apples comparisons, for example a accountant in the private sector vs an accountant that works for a government agency or a janitor in the private sector vs a janitor that works for a government agency.


I'll also add this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW3rrnXE1sg

[HBARleatherneck]

cut it all, slash, slash, slash. it will hurt, but we may survive. we cant survive this way.

and did they go back and get one of the characters from Starsky and Hutch for the video?

[merl]

I got an email from Udal about sequestration yesterday.

sent him back one along the lines of "cut the budget another way then. The only way cuts seem to get made is by force like this. It is the wrong way but until I see meaningful targeted cuts I support this."

[bogie]

Never mind that man behind the curtain spending those trillions on social programs. Let's wag the dog and focus on government pocket change.

[jerrymrc]

I have been told 2 days a pay period. People can roll out charts all day long but I can tell you my net pay has dropped by $200 per pay period in the last 4 years. I make 65% of what I am worth on the outside. at the end of 39 years of service my retirement is $24500 and I make $61K per year.

In order to have any kind of retirement one must put many $$ into there 401K plan but then that is just like every other place out there. I put $355 a pay period into my 401K and my matching funds are $93

According to my pay stub my retirement portion is worth $550 per month is what they claim but then how many workers never work long enough to collect it. I have had 3 close friends that were at retirement or close that died so.....

I know many just love to bash us but for many fields it is not as great as it seems. Many lower paid workers can't afford to have health ins even with the .gov benefit. A good 30% of people in the hospital make $11-$16 per hour. Average wage for RN's is $23-$24 unless you have been there awhile.

I can break it down further but in many ways we are like any other large company. In some cases are package is better than them and in some it is worse. I know my HMO is $454 per month (my part) for the wife and I and I have co-pays like everyone else.

Now if you were covered under the old system that ended in 89 then yes, it is a nice plan.

[jslo]

Only in Washington can a cut in an increase be considered a cut in spending[Dunno]

[rondog]

Jeeze, God forbid they cut some of the bennies and retirement pay of all the millionaires in Congress and the Senate.....might actually see some REAL savings that way.

[sabot_round]

I've already taken a pay cut, but as the cadence goes: "They'll give you $100 and take back $99"

[Aloha_Shooter]

Sure is a good thing Michelle took a $7M vacation and the Prez got his Florida golf in before the sequester hit. I wonder how many employees could have worked an extra day if they had just stayed home.

[gnihcraes]

.GOV worker here. I haven't seen even a COST OF LIVING increase since about 2005 I think. No bonuses for my Top Performer status either, bust my ass and get nothing.

[rondog]

Sure is a good thing Michelle took a $7M vacation and the Prez got his Florida golf in before the sequester hit. I wonder how many employees could have worked an extra day if they had just stayed home.

No kidding. That kinda shit just burns my ass. How many millions are pissed away every term on "1st family vacations" and other "trips"?

And is Michelle's mother still living in the White House too? And presumably going on all these trips as well?

WTF.

[sniper7]

We need to make the cuts. They keep talking here in the airline world that the sky will fall, that us in the airliners will have to land without a tower controller....big fucking deal. I just did it an hour ago.
The lines will be longer at TSA...fuck the TSA. I watched 6/10 of them stand around this morning while I went through security. Cut their jobs.

There are some places cuts need to be made and others where they don't. Every TSA employee should be fired. Private sector security can take over. No need for the .gov to control that. ATC can be private at a lot of small fields.

[hollohas]

We need to make the cuts. They keep talking here in the airline world that the sky will fall, that us in the airliners will have to land without a tower controller....big fucking deal. I just did it an hour ago.
The lines will be longer at TSA...fuck the TSA. I watched 6/10 of them stand around this morning while I went through security. Cut their jobs.

There are some places cuts need to be made and others where they don't. Every TSA employee should be fired. Private sector security can take over. No need for the .gov to control that. ATC can be private at a lot of small fields.

I have been through the DIA bridge security in the evening many, many times. Many of those times I have counted 30-40 TSA personnel and only a dozen or so passengers. Maybe only 6 TSA folks were actually doing anything. So I agree, significant cuts can be made there.

Also, as pointed out recently by CNN, the FAA budget is up about 41% in about the last decade or so and the domestic air traffic is down 27%. So they have lots more money and fewer planes to control. So yup, they can make some major cuts there too without planes falling out of the sky.

This admin uses some of the worst scare tactics I have ever seen.