Policeman gets owned by law student

[generalmeow]

This is beautiful


http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=T1fAu3uBUIM&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DT1f Au3uBUIM

[islandermyk]

I believe this has been posted before

T1fAu3uBUIM

[robertcolorado2009]

Thank you for posting this in a pc compatible format. In regards to if being posted before, Maybe it was. I'll bet many of us have not seen this(because there would be no reason to search for it, if it was not known), that being what it is, I am glad it might be a repost. Not ALL reposts are bad. In fact it's getting to be quite comical about how quickly people call out "Repost!!!". If it's an older repost, who cares, it's interesting to see stuff for the first time. In fact some of the repost alerts are more annoying that the alleged repost. Although I do get a chuckle from some of the notices because of comical way they are called out.

[ben4372]

Funny how common practice trumps law.

[10mm-man]

Repost!!

[Rooskibar03]

I may be in the minority here but I see this video, and the many others like it, as counter productive and just looking for a gotcha moment with LEO. Cops deal with enough crap every day, they don't need some punk kid trying to prove what a know it all he thinks he is.

This kid isn't out exercising his 2A rights, he's out looking for a confrontation which doesn't help anyone. I'd be happy to slap his dumb ass on behalf of the cop.


Oh yeah, repost.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

I may be in the minority here but I see this video, and the many others like it, as counter productive and just looking for a gotcha moment with LEO. Cops deal with enough crap every day, they don't need some punk kid trying to prove what a know it all he thinks he is.

This kid isn't out exercising his 2A rights, he's out looking for a confrontation winch doesn't help anyone. I'd be happy to slap his dumb ass on behalf of the cop.


Oh yeah, repost.
That's what a good number of the Open Carry videos are... OpenCarry.org is teeming with morons looking for lawsuits...

[Fmedges]

I think law students are called future assholes.

[MrPrena]

1st semester law student..

ummm xxx vs yyy,,,,
uhhhh state of xx vs mr. yyy.

[generalmeow]

I may be in the minority here but I see this video, and the many others like it, as counter productive and just looking for a gotcha moment with LEO. Cops deal with enough crap every day, they don't need some punk kid trying to prove what a know it all he thinks he is.

This kid isn't out exercising his 2A rights, he's out looking for a confrontation which doesn't help anyone. I'd be happy to slap his dumb ass on behalf of the cop.


Oh yeah, repost.

The cop is on video attempting to abuse his authority, and he's the good guy. Got it.

I for one don't like it when people try to abuse their authority.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

The cop is on video attempting to abuse his authority, and he's the good guy. Got it.

I for one don't like it when people try to abuse their authority.

I don't like it when people set out to try and sue the state, county, or city when that was their entire goal...

[Rooskibar03]

The cop is on video abusing his authority, and he's the good guy. Got it.

Cop in the video is dealing with a punk ass kid who testing the limits of acceptable behavior. This is Occupy Wall Street style behavior; poke a cop, quick turn on a camera, and scream about how your rights are being voilated.

Im not advocating a police state but this isn't getting us anywhere.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Cop in the video is dealing with a punk ass kid who testing the limits of acceptable behavior. This is Occupy Wall Street style behavior; poke a cop, quick turn on a camera, and scream about how your rights are being voilated.

Im not advocating a police state but this isn't getting us anywhere.

I love you...


Acting like a bunch of children isn't going to get us anywhere... Finally, someone else gets it too!

[generalmeow]

I don't like it when people set out to try and sue the state, county, or city when that was their entire goal...

Then the state, county, or city has no reason to fear us. They can do whatever they want.

[generalmeow]

Cop in the video is dealing with a punk ass kid who testing the limits of acceptable behavior. This is Occupy Wall Street style behavior; poke a cop, quick turn on a camera, and scream about how your rights are being voilated.

Im not advocating a police state but this isn't getting us anywhere.

But his rights were being, or about to be, violated. Nobody has any right to violate any one else's rights, no matter how irritating that person is.

[islandermyk]

This post..... deja vu all over again fellas [facepalm]

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Then the state, county, or city has no reason to fear us. They can do whatever they want.
Maybe I can put it into perspective for you...

I'm going to poke you in the face with a stick... I'm going to continue to poke you in the face with my sharp pointed stick until you react in a manner that may or may not be excessive. The entire time you're reacting I'm going to continue poking you in the face with a sharp stick...

Once you react, I'm going to sue the fuck out of you because of your reaction...

Even though I caused your reaction, I'm going to sue you. And you're going to lose...

Does that make sense to you at all?

But his rights were being, or about to be, violated. Nobody has any right to violate any one else's rights, no matter how irritating that person is.
I'm gonna say it like I did the last time this crap came up..

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should...

[generalmeow]

Ok, well lets say tomorrow I bend over at the grocery store, my shirt comes up a little bit, someone sees my glock, and calls the cops. When the cops show up, they try to violate my rights by pulling all of this same crap. I do not have a video camera. Am I still an asshole for saying all the same stuff this kid says to the cops? I have no reason to stand up for myself?

"Oh, well that's different." No, it isn't.

[generalmeow]

Maybe I can put it into perspective for you...

I'm going to poke you in the face with a stick... I'm going to continue to poke you in the face with my sharp pointed stick until you react in a manner that may or may not be excessive. The entire time you're reacting I'm going to continue poking you in the face with a sharp stick...

Once you react, I'm going to sue the fuck out of you because of your reaction...

That's not what happened in this video.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Ok, well lets say tomorrow I bend over at the grocery store, my shirt comes up a little bit, someone sees my glock, and calls the cops. When the cops show up, they try to violate my rights by pulling all of this same crap. I do not have a video camera. Am I still an asshole for saying all the same stuff this kid says to the cops? I have no reason to stand up for myself?

"Oh, well that's different." No, it isn't.
Actually, yes it is different...

Carrying concealed without a permit is a crime. The police have every right to make sure you have a permit.

So yes, if you cop an attitude with the police in the situation you pointed out, you are an asshole and should be treated as such.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

That's not what happened in this video.
Actually it is...

See, all these videos have one thing in common... Great editing and the ability to only tell one side of the story.

And, if you're so concerned that your rights might be violated that you feel the need to carry a voice/video recorder, maybe you should rethink your daily activities...

[generalmeow]

Actually, yes it is different...

Carrying concealed without a permit is a crime. The police have every right to make sure you have a permit.

So yes, if you cop an attitude with the police in the situation you pointed out, you are an asshole and should be treated as such.

Ok, what if I'm open carrying then, just like the kid, same situation? I didn't mean I'd break the law, I meant the cop would ask me to do something that he had no right to do.

[generalmeow]

And, if you're so concerned that your rights might be violated that you feel the need to carry a voice/video recorder, maybe you should rethink your daily activities...

If I ever open carried, I would expect to be confronted by the police. What if I just get so sick of being harassed that I start carrying a video camera? You don't think it's reasonable to do something legal and not get harassed for it? Cops should know the law. They shouldn't even ask a person open carrying what they're up to. It's legal.

Do I get pulled over going 55 down the highway, and the cop says "I pulled you over because I noticed you're following the speed limit." "Uh, yeah." "Well give me your id." "No" "Well carry on then."

Moral of the story: Just because you can go 55, doesn't mean you should.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Ok, what if I'm open carrying then, just like the kid, same situation?
You're killing me here... Two different things... Let's not even bring concealed carry into it...

If I ever open carried, I would expect to be confronted by the police. What if I just get so sick of being harassed that I start carrying a video camera? You don't think it's reasonable to do something legal and not get harassed for it? Cops should know the law. They shouldn't even ask a person open carrying what they're up to. It's legal.

Do I get pulled over going 55 down the highway, and the cop says "I pulled you over because I noticed you're following the speed limit." "Uh, yeah." "Well give me your id." "No" "Well carry on then."

Moral of the story: Just because you can go 55, doesn't mean you should.

Fuck me... Here we go...

Social and Cultural Norms... You have to understand the way the masses think. Seeing a gun attached to someone's hip is NOT NORMAL in major cities and heavily populated areas. After Aurora and Sandy Hook guns are a touchy thing for those that haven't been around them.

Seeing guns is a scary thing to some people and to be honest I don't blame them. For many, it's not their fault.

My girlfriend's mom, for example, is terrified of guns. She was never brought up around them and she knows nothing about them. That isn't her fault. If she saw someone with a gun I'm sure it would worry her and she would probably call the police. Telling someone that doesn't know the law that what the person with the gun is doing is legal would probably cause more harm than good.

I've never been a fan of open carry in heavily populated areas. I never will be. It is NOT normal, nor do I think it ever will be.

Now as for your speed limit thing... I'm not even going to get into such a stupid comparison.

[Rooskibar03]

Again you miss the point. Driving 55 doesn't generally generate a call to police to look into things. Parading around town with an MP5 knockoff over your back and a camera in your hand is very likely too. This guy went out wanting to be stopped by police, hoping to catch him on tape doing something he shouldn't (poking him) with his comments. When you get what it is you were looking for you're no longer the victim of police harassment.

This little douche started the encounter by spouting off legal precedent to provoke. It's ambush journalism in reverse.


If I ever open carried, I would expect to be confronted by the police. What if I just get so sick of being harassed that I start carrying a video camera? You don't think it's reasonable to do something legal and not get harassed for it? Cops should know the law. They shouldn't even ask a person open carrying what they're up to. It's legal.

Do I get pulled over going 55 down the highway, and the cop says "I pulled you over because I noticed you're following the speed limit." "Uh, yeah." "Well give me your id." "No" "Well carry on then."

Moral of the story: Just because you can go 55, doesn't mean you should.

[generalmeow]

You're killing me here... Two different things... Let's not even bring concealed carry into it...


Fuck me... Here we go...

Social and Cultural Norms... You have to understand the way the masses think. Seeing a gun attached to someone's hip is NOT NORMAL in major cities and heavily populated areas. After Aurora and Sandy Hook guns are a touchy thing for those that haven't been around them.

Seeing guns is a scary thing to some people and to be honest I don't blame them. For many, it's not their fault.

My girlfriend's mom, for example, is terrified of guns. She was never brought up around them and she knows nothing about them. That isn't her fault. If she saw someone with a gun I'm sure it would worry her and she would probably call the police. Telling someone that doesn't know the law that what the person with the gun is doing is legal would probably cause more harm than good.

I've never been a fan of open carry in heavily populated areas. I never will be. It is NOT normal, nor do I think it ever will be.

Now as for your speed limit thing... I'm not even going to get into such a stupid comparison.

If someone calls the cops and says "this guy has a gun on his hip", or if someone calls and says "this guy has a gun", and the cops show up and see that he has it on his hip and isn't waving it around, they should just turn around and leave. I don't give a rats ass what other people think is scary. Other people think AR's are scary, in my house. The cops should know the law, and shouldn't harass or question people for not breaking the law.

The speed limit comparison is 100% valid.

[generalmeow]

Again you miss the point. Driving 55 doesn't generally generate a call to police to look into things.
It doesn't even matter if a concerned citizen made the call about the gun. The cop would have questioned him if he had seen it himself, and was the first person to see it.

The speed limit comparison is valid, because why the heck would a cop interrogate a person who they have no reason to believe is violating the law? And why would that person be an asshole for standing up to the cop?

[JM Ver. 2.0]

If someone calls the cops and says "this guy has a gun on his hip", or if someone calls and says "this guy has a gun", and the cops show up and see that he has it on his hip and isn't waving it around, they should just turn around and leave. I don't give a rats ass what other people think is scary. Other people think AR's are scary, in my house. The cops should know the law, and shouldn't harass or question people for not breaking the law.

The speed limit comparison is 100% valid.
You, sir, are an idiot and have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

First I'll take care of the easy part... The driving 55 comparison isn't valid at all. Not in the slightest bit. Piss off for thinking it is. A gun and a car are totally different. Quit trying to be a smart ass.


The police should never just "turn around and leave." EVER!!!!!!!!!!! Do you wanna know why? Because of asshole lawyers that will attempt to sue the fuck out of them for TURNING AROUND A LEAVING! Now that I have that part out of my system, let's move on to someone different...


If you wanna play the comparison game we can... A car parked in a parking lot at 2am alone with two people in it isn't illegal, but, it is weird as fuck. Cop drives by, sees two people in the car, not breaking the law, drives away... Meanwhile, the guy in the car just kidnapped the girl in the car is about to rape the fuck out of her. But hey! Nothing illegal going on, right?

You're fucking crazy, bro...

[JM Ver. 2.0]

It doesn't even matter if a concerned citizen made the call about the gun. The cop would have questioned him if he had seen it himself, and was the first person to see it.

The speed limit comparison is valid, because why the heck would a cop interrogate a person who they have no reason to believe is violating the law? And why would that person be an asshole for standing up to the cop?

it has nothing to do with standing up to the cop. It has everything to do with the manner in which you do it.

[generalmeow]

In short - "I see you've got a legal open carry gun so I need to check your id to make sure you're not a criminal", is the exact same as pulling someone over for following the speed limit and doing the exact same thing. Completely not acceptable.

[Rooskibar03]

Beck had a book a few years back with a title that pretty much sums up this thread.

What was it now?

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm251/cmuthard03/0f0d47f215d0f731c67e5b9b9475a9ee_zpsb3eaa57c.jpg

[generalmeow]

You know who calls names to win arguments? Liberals. Also children.

[Rooskibar03]

In short - "I see you've got a legal open carry gun so I need to check your id to make sure you're not a criminal", is the exact same as pulling someone over for following the speed limit and doing the exact same thing. Completely not acceptable.


Im not in LEO but I think the term is reasonable suspicion. You can be pulled over while driving the speed limit if the cop has reason to suspect you might be danger to the general public.

Again the intent of this individual makes all the difference.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

In short - "I see you've got a legal open carry gun so I need to check your id to make sure you're not a criminal", is the exact same as pulling someone over for following the speed limit and doing the exact same thing. Completely not acceptable.
A GUN and a CAR are NOT THE SAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know who calls names to win arguments? Liberals. Also children.
Ya know who makes silly comparisons that don't work? Stupid people with stupid arguments...

[TheBelly]

The Police aren't there to be lectured about court cases and past precedence and blah blah blah..... That's why we have the judicial system. Rational people should explain their position to the officer, and the officer can then make a judgement call as to whether a law has been broken. That's what they get trained to do.

One interpretation might be that the guy was acting like a tard on the video. He was waiting for the cop to react so he could catch it on video. The other side of the coin may be that the guy in the video might legitimately feel the need to have his own evidence if/when he gets arrested.

The cop didn't take the bait, and I think that says something about him. However (the cop is not quite off the hook), he didn't know the law and he got called on it. The other side of it is this: Cops know that they are going to deal with tards pretty much all day every day. No one is forcing him to be a cop. To say that he doesn't deserve that, I agree. HOWEVER, he is free to choose another profession.

This is simply video proof of the hazards of being both a law-abiding open-carrying gun owner in today's society, both on the cop's side and the citizen's side.

[generalmeow]

I don't think having a gun, which every cop knows (or should know) is legal to open carry, is reasonable suspicion that you're committing a crime. What could you possibly ask a dude carrying a pistol on his hip? "You robbing this place?" "You going to kill someone?" No. They ask for his ID to make sure he's not a criminal. That's unacceptable because he wasn't doing anything illegal.

[generalmeow]

A GUN and a CAR are NOT THE SAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ya know who makes silly comparisons that don't work? Stupid people with stupid arguments...

Not talking to you anymore. People who try to win arguments like this don't deserve my time.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

I don't think having a gun, which every cop knows (or should know) is legal to open carry, is reasonable suspicion that you're committing a crime. What could you possibly ask a dude carrying a pistol on his hip? "You robbing this place?" "You going to kill someone?" No. They ask for his ID to make sure he's not a criminal. That's unacceptable because he wasn't doing anything illegal.
What could you ask? You could ask anything you want.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Not talking to you anymore. People who try to win arguments like this don't deserve my time.
Ooohhh shit... Like I haven't heard that one before... [ROFL1]

Since you missed it, I'll spell it out for you... I don't need to win this argument. I don't care if I win this argument. You care more than I do.

[TheBelly]

What could you ask? You could ask anything you want.

Am I required to respond if I get asked questions when it's already been established that I'm not being detained.....

The cop can terry frisk you, but that's pretty much where it stops, I think.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Am I required to respond if I get asked questions when it's already been established that I'm not being detained.....

The cop can terry frisk you, but that's pretty much where it stops, I think.
No. You don't need to respond. What I meant by that is, it's not against the law to talk to someone. You can ask them what ever the hell you want. Whether or not they answer is totally up to them.

Just like on here... I can post what ever I please... Whether or not I get banned is up to the mods... :D

[Teufelhund]

I'm pretty sure we've had it out over this particular video before.

It's pretty stupid to start spouting off SCOTUS cases to a cop. That cop does not have the entirety of SCOTUS case law memorized, and he sure as hell shouldn't be expected to. He should, however, know the local statutes if he is going to try to enforce it. You know, since it's his job and stuff.

[DingleBerns]

Just to clear things up, you only need reasonable suspicion to stop someone whether it's in a car or walking. In that case, you have to ID yourself and explain your actions. If it is a consensual stop (not suspicious and not doing anything illegal) you don't have to ID yourself. Oh, and open carry is not allowed in every city so be sure you know before you do....

[KevDen2005]

JM, this is like your first day back, have you been foaming at the mouth for this to come up?!

Welcome back.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

JM, this is like your first day back, have you been foaming at the mouth for this to come up?!

Welcome back.
You know me... Always in the mood for a good ruckus.

[Aloha_Shooter]

The one thing I got from the video is that the student wasn't in Chicago. Legal or not, a Chicago cop would have owned his arse instead of standing there letting him spout the names of cases and recording the whole encounter. The cop was responding to local concerns; while his stop and following questions were wrong, he exercised good judgment in not doing anything more to someone who was clearly a provocateur looking to make his own ambush video.

Said provocateur could have done far more for our side by being friendly to the populace and educating them so they didn't freak at the sight of a gun.

[rondog]

I predict a short and painful membership here for generalmeow. I also think he needs to grab his video camera and strap on his pistol for all to see, and go out making his own videos emulating his hero, the antagonistic asshole trying to provoke the cop.

Go on general, take your phone and gun and git out there and start provoking cops. Be sure to carry a cheat sheet so you can quote laws and cases, and spout about your rights! Record the results well, we need more good humor around here and on YouTube. Have a buddy film it from across the street too, so we can enjoy seeing the reactions of the authorities and the results of your provocations. No fair editing out the good parts either, like when the tasers make you shit your pants....

[Dingo]

This whole open carry/provocation thing has been beat to death many times before. Ultimately, it comes down to a case of context, setting, and intent. If you're walking down a city street (anywhere other than WY or TX) with a gun strapped to your hip, you can expect to draw a lot of unwanted attention. If you walk into Wal-mart with a rifle slung over your shoulder in a college town, expect the same. There's nobody in their right mind that expects to just peacefully pass through without anybody noticing them. It's a deliberate, calculated attempt at drawing attention and stirring up a situation that doesn't need to be. And it's a hell of a lot different than carrying a gun in some small, conservative town where it's more common place. Like it or not, gun-carrying citizens are a special-interest group. In my mind, this isn't any different than a pair of leather-clad poofs walking around with their hands in each others pants. Is it strictly illegal? Not necessarily, but it is a deliberate "in-your-face" belligerent disregard for anybody else in their proximity who doesn't feel the same.

And as a final note - I'm not a particularly big fan of law enforcement in general (or the broad-reaching powers granted them by a liberal society), but I do realize and respect three very important facts here:

#1: They're also still human beings just like us who are dealing with an extremely stressful, dangerous job on a daily basis. Out of common courtesy, I would not go out of my way to make their job harder, or deliberately fuck with them.

#2: While I don't personally choose to rely on them for protection, I'm still aware that there are other aspects to their job that serve a useful function. And it's not a job I would want to do myself.

#3: These types of encounters do absolutely nothing positive for our public image or cause as responsible gun-owners.

Again with the Teddy Roosevelt wisdom: "Walk softly, and carry a big stick..."

[Aperta]

You can tell his main goal was to come into contact with LE and have a huge argument with them so he can spit out court cases and sound like a smart ass. How can you tell that was his main goal you might ask? because HE UPLOADED IT! If he was carrying for his protection and just carried a video camera for evidence purposes he would have deleted the video off his camera after he was let go. But instead he wanted to make his internet dick bigger.

[Dingo]

As a P.S.

I can already hear the "why should you try to conceal one of your fundamental rights, granted by the Constitution?" bit. In response, I say that I feel my right to carry a deadly weapon for my family's defense, and my own peace of mind, is granted by a higher power than the Constitution. If concealed carry were to be outlawed next week, it wouldn't give me a single pause as I continued to carry regardless. I choose to exercise that right in a manner which is discreet, courteous of people who are of a different mindset, and least likely to cause inflammatory situations. This has nothing to do with concessions to the liberals, and everything to do with living peaceably in a society filled with mixed viewpoints.

[Rust_shackleford]

I may be in the minority here but I see this video, and the many others like it, as counter productive and just looking for a gotcha moment with LEO. Cops deal with enough crap every day, they don't need some punk kid trying to prove what a know it all he thinks he is.

This kid isn't out exercising his 2A rights, he's out looking for a confrontation which doesn't help anyone. I'd be happy to slap his dumb ass on behalf of the cop.
Whorship Cops and Military, it worked well for the Germans and Russians.



Oh yeah, repost.

[Rooskibar03]

Sorry Rust, not looking to worship cops or military, but rather to smack some common sense into someone who is out trying to make a name for himself by being a asshat to others.

[ghettodub]

I may be in the minority here but I see this video, and the many others like it, as counter productive and just looking for a gotcha moment with LEO. Cops deal with enough crap every day, they don't need some punk kid trying to prove what a know it all he thinks he is.

This kid isn't out exercising his 2A rights, he's out looking for a confrontation which doesn't help anyone. I'd be happy to slap his dumb ass on behalf of the cop.


Oh yeah, repost.

Agreed. There are a ton of these videos on Youtube, and it kinda pisses me off.

[Ronin13]

As a P.S.

I can already hear the "why should you try to conceal one of your fundamental rights, granted by the Constitution?" bit. In response, I say that I feel my right to carry a deadly weapon for my family's defense, and my own peace of mind, is granted by a higher power than the Constitution. If concealed carry were to be outlawed next week, it wouldn't give me a single pause as I continued to carry regardless. I choose to exercise that right in a manner which is discreet, courteous of people who are of a different mindset, and least likely to cause inflammatory situations. This has nothing to do with concessions to the liberals, and everything to do with living peaceably in a society filled with mixed viewpoints.
The exact same can be said of wearing a tee shirt (pardon my adult language here, it's to prove a point) that said "FUCK" in big bold, red letters. Sure there is absolutely nothing wrong with it, it's within your protected, 1st Amendment rights. But it will make people angry/upset/uncomfortable/etc. and it's just going out of your way to achieve whatever goal/message you are attempting, but in reality, to those around you, you're just being a dick. That's how I view these pompous pricks who strap on a gun, grab their camera, and go out looking for a cop to film and in general be a big asshole. Dingo- I respect where you're coming from, especially on that previous post. I however, would love to do that job- but if I ran into a cocky little shit like in this case, I would calmly, and respectfully inform him he was being an ass. The point in life is to live it, not make others lives difficult. It all boils down to courtesy- something that is sadly lacking in our society- at least a few of us get it... [Beer]

[generalmeow]

I predict a short and painful membership here for generalmeow.

I've been a member here for 2 years now, so you predicted wrong.

I can't believe there are people on this forum supporting a cop abusing his power. This one time the person had a video camera, which means there are at least a million other times when the person didn't have a video camera. But you're mad at the person for having a video camera and knowing his rights. He didn't antagonize the cop. He didn't approach the cop. The cop approached him for doing nothing illegal because some other person didn't know the law and called the cops on him because they were ignorant and scared.

So you would rather the cop abuse his power, the person not know their rights and stand up to the cop, and definitely not record the exchange. Otherwise I'm not sure how you can take this position.

[dwalker460]

I wonder how many people reading this thread have ever been confronted by an officer while carrying, relieved of their weapon, and then treated like a criminal until the officer decided to let you have your weapon back. I have a few times. While more or less 75% of the time the officers are professional and respectful the other 25% have not been. In one specific incident had I not insisted that the officer either arrest me or get a higher ranking officer on site my weapon would have been confiscated as a "precautionary measure". Yea, thats right, an officer did not know his job or the law and viewed ANY armed citizen as a criminal. Be honest, we all know there are a lot more cops out there with this attitude than we, or "they" care to admit. The big issue now is that no matter who you are or where you are, there is a solid chance someone is videoing whatever your doing, so it just doesnt pay to not be professional, courteous, and knowledgeable.

I agree the guy went looking for a fight to video. The problem is the cop gave him the fight. The LEO is supposed to be professional, its his job. The citizen is free to be an ass, to incur LEO contact, or whatever he wishes to do, but the officer is not. He has a specific set of knowledge and rules to follow and in this case he did not have the first clue. Had the officer been professional do you think this video would have even made it to youtubes?

As to what society will tolerate, well thats a sad situation. While it is perfectly ok and attracts little notice for a scumbag to walk around the mall in a "I F*CKED YOUR DAUGHTER" shirt with ripped pants and gang signs carrying skateboards and a backpack full of spray paint, a relatively clean cut guy in jeans and a sweatshirt walking around with a gun on the hip sends "the wrong message". Yeah, there are some screwed up messages out there in the world for sure.

Regardless, I think the guy on the video is an idiot but I think the cop was a bigger idiot.

[islandermyk]

yep... this is deja vu all over again...


[mop]

[Ronin13]

I've been a member here for 2 years now, so you predicted wrong.

I can't believe there are people on this forum supporting a cop abusing his power. This one time the person had a video camera, which means there are at least a million other times when the person didn't have a video camera. But you're mad at the person for having a video camera and knowing his rights. He didn't antagonize the cop. He didn't approach the cop. The cop approached him for doing nothing illegal because some other person didn't know the law and called the cops on him because they were ignorant and scared.

So you would rather the cop abuse his power, the person not know their rights and stand up to the cop, and definitely not record the exchange. Otherwise I'm not sure how you can take this position.
Are you serious? Look, I don't want to be the 4th person to jump down your throat, but can you stop, take a breath, and think for just five seconds. Imagine if you, strap an MP-5 (doesn't matter if it's a .22 single shot or a 10mm full auto) on your person, grab a video camera, and go out into the world. Puff your chest out big guy, you're an American! WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN!? Of course a cop is going to come and check and see what's up. This guy knew that's what was going to happen and he did it to be an asshat. Sit down. Please.

[generalmeow]

Are you serious? Look, I don't want to be the 4th person to jump down your throat, but can you stop, take a breath, and think for just five seconds. Imagine if you, strap an MP-5 (doesn't matter if it's a .22 single shot or a 10mm full auto) on your person, grab a video camera, and go out into the world. Puff your chest out big guy, you're an American! WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN!? Of course a cop is going to come and check and see what's up. This guy knew that's what was going to happen and he did it to be an asshat. Sit down. Please.

I am serious. If I'm not breaking the law, and the cop has no reason to suspect that I have committed a crime, I am committing a crime, or I am about to commit a crime, I don't have to talk to him. Period. It doesn't matter if I have a video camera or not. He can't detain me. He can't ask for my ID. Nothing. edit: and I bet if I didn't have a video camera, most cops would attempt to do these things.

The reason our rights are being eroded is the same reason that people are on the cop's side in this video.

And I don't believe in scary looking guns being treated differently than non-scary looking guns. Evidently you do.

[Ronin13]

I am serious. If I'm not breaking the law, and the cop has no reason to suspect that I have committed a crime, I am committing a crime, or I am about to commit a crime, I don't have to talk to him. Period. It doesn't matter if I have a video camera or not. He can't detain me. He can't ask for my ID. Nothing. edit: and I bet if I didn't have a video camera, most cops would attempt to do these things.

The reason our rights are being eroded is the same reason that people are on the cop's side in this video.

And I don't believe in scary looking guns being treated differently than non-scary looking guns. Evidently you do.
False. I don't think treating any gun as something more than what it is is right. I'm just saying MOST people don't know the law, they see a gun on someone's hip, they call 911, the cops show up, they have to check it out- if you make it hard for them to determine everything is okay, then you deserve to be held up for a long period of time and the false feeling of being "violated." I don't think these cops "Violated" the guy in any way, but he did go out looking for a confrontation with his local PD. That's what we're getting after... Further- did you even watch the video? The cop asked for ID, he was denied. Then the cop asked for the guys name. DENIED. WTF? That's just a dick move. "UH it'll go in the report." STFU guy. I think it's little dipshits like in that video that make us all look bad. So you can go ahead and try that out... I suggest drawing down on the cop first, just to make sure he knows not to violate your rights. [facepalm]

[sniper7]

Although a repost, still like it. He should have never been stopped in the first place. If you complain about the guy being an asshole, put yourself in his situation. The law says you can carry. The law says you can't be stopped without reasonable suspicion of committing a crime. The law is on his side yet the law enforcement doesn't know the law and uses common practice to disarm the man and begin to question him and check his legal status to own and carry a firearm.

While an isolated incident, I don't want to see this abuse get carried out further and progress into something more.

[generalmeow]

The cop asked for ID, he was denied. Then the cop asked for the guys name. DENIED. WTF? That's just a dick move.

Why is it a dick move, when the kid doesn't have to do this? So the kid is dick for not volunteering more information than he is required to, by law? The cop shouldn't have even been talking to him if he didn't have a reason to suspect that a crime was being committed. And carrying a gun isn't a reason to suspect that a crime has been committed. A concerned citizen saying that there's someone carrying a gun isn't reason to suspect that a crime has been committed.

You guys go ahead and talk to cops and give them whatever they ask for, no matter what your rights are. I'm going to do the absolute bare minimum, every single time. And if that makes me a stupid idiot asshole who people predict will get kicked off this message board in short order, so be it.

[generalmeow]

Although a repost, still like it. He should have never been stopped in the first place. If you complain about the guy being an asshole, put yourself in his situation. The law says you can carry. The law says you can't be stopped without reasonable suspicion of committing a crime. The law is on his side yet the law enforcement doesn't know the law and uses common practice to disarm the man and begin to question him and check his legal status to own and carry a firearm.

While an isolated incident, I don't want to see this abuse get carried out further and progress into something more.

Ok, you say exactly what I've said, and I predict that nobody will call you a stupid idiot asshole and say you're going to get kicked off the message board. We'll see.

[PugnacAutMortem]

I still do not understand how people who claim to be 2A friendly are so anti-OC. It baffles me every single time.

OT though, can't watch the video at work...but there are some folks going out looking for a confrontation. Those people are not helpful to our cause. Now there are other people who go out armed with a gun on their hip for protection, and a camera on their person for protection.

Now I will say this, chances are the internet will never see the videos of good LEO encounters. So yes, there probably is a large proportion of OC videos on the internet of folks looking for a confrontation. But the actions of these few people who abuse their OC rights affect the perception of OCers in the 2A community. Does that sound familiar? It's exactly the same situation that is happening nationwide when it comes to our beloved ARs. Folks, don't let the actions of a couple nutter butters skew your perception of law abiding citizens.

Last thing, the whole "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should" argument from some 2A folks is at it's core extremely hypocritcal when it comes to OCing. I bet you would get your undies in a wad if someone came up to you and said "Just because you can own an AR, doesn't mean you should." Right?
[Beer]

[dwalker460]

Enough of this-

Ronin, I know you want desperately to be a cop, so you see nothing wrong on the cop side and the citizen in question is in the wrong, but in this case, your flat wrong. Back up a second and look at this in a different light. Watch the video again. I OPEN CARRY. Friends of mine OPEN CARRY, and I promise you that if a cop came up and TOOK MY GUN before he even asked my name etc. I would not be particularly cooperative and might need bail money afterwards.

JM, I like you, met you at the range, but back that shit up. Are you even a LEO? Seems like I remember you posting to that effect but cant remember, however, open carry is legal. Get over it.

However in your guys honor I am going to put aside my Kel-tec cc gun and strap up with the XDM on the hip. Maybe head over to wal-mart or the mall.

SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED MEANS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. Its just not for mags yanno!




False. I don't think treating any gun as something more than what it is is right. I'm just saying MOST people don't know the law, they see a gun on someone's hip, they call 911, the cops show up, they have to check it out- if you make it hard for them to determine everything is okay, then you deserve to be held up for a long period of time and the false feeling of being "violated." I don't think these cops "Violated" the guy in any way, but he did go out looking for a confrontation with his local PD. That's what we're getting after... Further- did you even watch the video? The cop asked for ID, he was denied. Then the cop asked for the guys name. DENIED. WTF? That's just a dick move. "UH it'll go in the report." STFU guy. I think it's little dipshits like in that video that make us all look bad. So you can go ahead and try that out... I suggest drawing down on the cop first, just to make sure he knows not to violate your rights. [facepalm]

[PugnacAutMortem]

Enough of this-

Ronin, I know you want desperately to be a cop, so you see nothing wrong on the cop side and the citizen in question is in the wrong, but in this case, your flat wrong. Back up a second and look at this in a different light. Watch the video again. I OPEN CARRY. Friends of mine OPEN CARRY, and I promise you that if a cop came up and TOOK MY GUN before he even asked my name etc. I would not be particularly cooperative and might need bail money afterwards.

JM, I like you, met you at the range, but back that shit up. Are you even a LEO? Seems like I remember you posting to that effect but cant remember, however, open carry is legal. Get over it.

However in your guys honor I am going to put aside my Kel-tec cc gun and strap up with the XDM on the hip. Maybe head over to wal-mart or the mall.

SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED MEANS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. Its just not for mags yanno!

That's a damn good 1,00th post my friend.

[Score]

[TheBelly]

If the officer in the video didn't know the law at the time that encounter took place, then how can he do something "on purpose?" I think some here are forgetting the requirement of malice-aforethought... Mens rea (guilty mind) is what the lawyers call it. I think I may have read that somewhere. ....

[MrPrena]

In before [shithitsfan]

[sniper7]

Ok, you say exactly what I've said, and I predict that nobody will call you a stupid idiot asshole and say you're going to get kicked off the message board. We'll see.

You just need to learn how to be a post whore!

I don't advocate for provoking cops, they have a job to do, this guy was tring to do his job, but he also needs to understand that common practice is not the law. The guy carrying, for whatever his reason was within the limits of the law and this incident should have never taken place if common practice was not so common.

[Ronin13]

Why is it a dick move, when the kid doesn't have to do this? So the kid is dick for not volunteering more information than he is required to, by law? The cop shouldn't have even been talking to him if he didn't have a reason to suspect that a crime was being committed. And carrying a gun isn't a reason to suspect that a crime has been committed. A concerned citizen saying that there's someone carrying a gun isn't reason to suspect that a crime has been committed.

You guys go ahead and talk to cops and give them whatever they ask for, no matter what your rights are. I'm going to do the absolute bare minimum, every single time. And if that makes me a stupid idiot asshole who people predict will get kicked off this message board in short order, so be it.
The cop asked his name, he refused to give it. I know he's not required by law, but FFS that's just being an asshole. Stop standing on principal when IRL if a cop has contact with you and politely asks so they can converse with you, what is your first name, it's kind of being a big swollen asshole to say "I'm not gonna give you that... huff!"

Enough of this-

Ronin, I know you want desperately to be a cop, so you see nothing wrong on the cop side and the citizen in question is in the wrong, but in this case, your flat wrong. Back up a second and look at this in a different light. Watch the video again. I OPEN CARRY. Friends of mine OPEN CARRY, and I promise you that if a cop came up and TOOK MY GUN before he even asked my name etc. I would not be particularly cooperative and might need bail money afterwards.

JM, I like you, met you at the range, but back that shit up. Are you even a LEO? Seems like I remember you posting to that effect but cant remember, however, open carry is legal. Get over it.

However in your guys honor I am going to put aside my Kel-tec cc gun and strap up with the XDM on the hip. Maybe head over to wal-mart or the mall.

SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED MEANS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. Its just not for mags yanno!
You assume a lot... I'm not being some, what's the word some have used on here? "Badge licker." I'm not saying OC is wrong, or bad... I'm all for it, but due to the way the world is today (and if you fail to see this you are in for a real shocker) OCing draws unwanted attention in populated areas... Sheep will call the cops, not all cops are well versed on 110% of every single law, regulation, statute or rule... this is just the way it is. Expecting cops to know EVERY single of the 100,000's of laws out there is just ludicrous. I'm not defending the cop's actions, I'm not saying in this case they did right- but as we all learned as kids (I hope we all did) two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts make a right! [Coffee] <interjecting humor to ease the tension in here. The kid in the video was a prick, the cop overstepped, there! Okay? My main point was: When you go out looking for confrontation you are an asshole, plain and simple. If you're just going out and exercising your rights in OCing, good for you, but don't be surprised, nor come crying when you have an interaction with LE because someone called in "a man with a gun." That's the way it is these days, I wish it weren't, but hey, I wish a lot of things weren't this way, like Obama being president, gas costing nearly $4/gal, etc. Adapt and overcome, or do your part in changing it THE RIGHT WAY. Don't strap a gun on your hip, get your camera, and go out looking to be the next YouTube douche looking for cops to confront, that is not the right way, and it only makes you look like a punk. [Beer]

[generalmeow]

When you go out looking for confrontation you are an asshole, plain and simple.

So when you're carrying a video camera, you're looking for a confrontation? Because I'm trying to figure out what you think this kid did differently to draw attention that any other person OC'ing wouldn't also be doing (namely, walking around with a gun on your hip). If he was purposely going around trying to scare people, then he may have been breaking the law. But since the cop didn't arrest him, I assume that wasn't the case. He was literally just minding his own business, and had a video camera (probably his cell phone) on him, and was ready to use it.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Regardless, I think the guy on the video is an idiot but I think the cop was a bigger idiot.

I'm going to take the opposite view. The cop didn't know the applicable laws and was going beyond his legal authority but the guy in the video not only knew he'd get a reaction, he planned and provoked reactions by the local populace and then law enforcement just to make a point. The fact that his actions and confrontational attitude bolster the stereotypes of belligerent gun owners just adds to his self-defeating idiocy; self-defeating because in the end it hurts all of us by pissing off the general public and law enforcement.

I'm all for open carry but there are ways to do it that show the non-carrying public that gun owners are Everyman and there are ways to do it that make them think gun owners are Everyass. The guy on the video chose the latter.

[dwalker460]

You assume a lot... I'm not being some, what's the word some have used on here? "Badge licker." I'm not saying OC is wrong, or bad... I'm all for it, but due to the way the world is today (and if you fail to see this you are in for a real shocker) OCing draws unwanted attention in populated areas... Sheep will call the cops, not all cops are well versed on 110% of every single law, regulation, statute or rule... this is just the way it is. Expecting cops to know EVERY single of the 100,000's of laws out there is just ludicrous. I'm not defending the cop's actions, I'm not saying in this case they did right- but as we all learned as kids (I hope we all did) two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts make a right! http://www.ar-15.co/images/smilies/anim_coffee.gif <interjecting humor to ease the tension in here. The kid in the video was a prick, the cop overstepped, there! Okay? My main point was: When you go out looking for confrontation you are an asshole, plain and simple. If you're just going out and exercising your rights in OCing, good for you, but don't be surprised, nor come crying when you have an interaction with LE because someone called in "a man with a gun." That's the way it is these days, I wish it weren't, but hey, I wish a lot of things weren't this way, like Obama being president, gas costing nearly $4/gal, etc. Adapt and overcome, or do your part in changing it THE RIGHT WAY. Don't strap a gun on your hip, get your camera, and go out looking to be the next YouTube douche looking for cops to confront, that is not the right way, and it only makes you look like a punk

Ronin I actually think we are assuming a lot that the kid was looking for a confrontation. From the video what I get is:

Guy is walking down the street, folks call the cops- we are actually assuming that based on the officers statement, we do not KNOW that the cop didnt see the guy walking along and made the stop, then backed it up with a BS story about complaints. See? I can ASSume as well.

Cop relieves the citizen of his weapon, which apparently the citizen did with no drama. The citizen gets concerned this might not be going his way, and starts recording.

Cop makes a lot of stupid mistakes- Citizen gets a little testy and just wants to go.

Thinking it over again, I would have not even been as nice as the citizen and probably would have gone to jail, because the cop was full of shit.

Bullshit open carry is "asking for it", any more than driving a red Corvette is "asking for it". No excuse for this behavior.

Seriously, step away from the cop juice.

but just for shits n grins- let me show you how eroded our Rights are:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/16/james-sorensen-wrongfully-arrested_n_1790725.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=M5TzoDTH_zM

http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/31/colorado-man-arrested-for-bringing-gun-to-theater/

So either BACK THE 2nd, or get off this bus ok?

[husky390]

And, if you're so concerned that your rights might be violated that you feel the need to carry a voice/video recorder, maybe you should rethink your daily activities...

I disagree, there's a whole lot of people in Denver who would have never been vindicated had it not been for a video recorder. While I think cops put up with way more b.s. than they should have to, there are those that are corrupt or ignorant of the law. Then there are those that are bored and harass people for no reason other than to be a dick. I've unfortunately met a few in Castle Rock who fit my latter example.

[spyder]

This post..... deja vu all over again fellas [facepalm]
lol I can still remember the last one! In before the close!

[generalmeow]

he planned and provoked reactions by the local populace and then law enforcement just to make a point.

How do you know that?

[spyder]

[/COLOR]

Bullshit open carry is "asking for it", any more than driving a red Corvette is "asking for it". No excuse for this behavior.



The ignorant quote above is part of societies problem. How exactly is it "asking for it"? You sound as dumb as the cops in the video's. If you feel that way, why don't you pay for those that don't have the extra $200 to get their permit? Or in your semi liberal mind, should you not carry or have the right to if you don't have the extra cash? That would be like saying that if you don't have a racing license, you shouldn't be able to drive... get it? Till concealed carry is becomes an unregulated and free right, bitching about open carry is fucking stupid unless you will personally flip the bill for people to get their CCW. Get off the stupid horse.

[islandermyk]

lol I can still remember the last one! In before the close!

[ROFL1]yep... and here we go again [microwave]

[dwalker460]

The ignorant quote above is part of societies problem. How exactly is it "asking for it"? You sound as dumb as the cops in the video's. If you feel that way, why don't you pay for those that don't have the extra $200 to get their permit? Or in your semi liberal mind, should you not carry or have the right to if you don't have the extra cash? That would be like saying that if you don't have a racing license, you shouldn't be able to drive... get it? Till concealed carry is becomes an unregulated and free right, bitching about open carry is fucking stupid unless you will personally flip the bill for people to get their CCW. Get off the stupid horse.


Um, I think you mis-read that, I am pointing out that the view of simply exercising your right to OC is viewed as "asking for" police contact is wrong, and complete crap. I agree with all your other points. Concealed permits are BS and an invasion of my privacy. Background checks are a 4th Amendment violation- how it ever got approved that it is OK for the government to make you PROVE you are OK to earn a gun rather than them proving you arent is beyond me. Innocent until proven guilty... ring any bells?

[waxthis]

If there were no camera, or in a rougher neighborhood, this guy would of been @#$%^& up. Period.

[spyder]

Um, I think you mis-read that, I am pointing out that the view of simply exercising your right to OC is viewed as "asking for" police contact is wrong, and complete crap. I agree with all your other points. Concealed permits are BS and an invasion of my privacy. Background checks are a 4th Amendment violation- how it ever got approved that it is OK for the government to make you PROVE you are OK to earn a gun rather than them proving you arent is beyond me. Innocent until proven guilty... ring any bells?
Gocha, I thought you were calling open carry bullshit, and said that anyone who did was asking for it. Ok. Well there are the open carry haters on here, and I usually tell them all to screw off as the right to carry shouldn't depend on rather someone has an extra $200. If that price goes away, and open carry is free, then yes, I will agree that open carry is at that point, and that point only, a bad idea.

[Ronin13]

So when you're carrying a video camera, you're looking for a confrontation? Because I'm trying to figure out what you think this kid did differently to draw attention that any other person OC'ing wouldn't also be doing (namely, walking around with a gun on your hip). If he was purposely going around trying to scare people, then he may have been breaking the law. But since the cop didn't arrest him, I assume that wasn't the case. He was literally just minding his own business, and had a video camera (probably his cell phone) on him, and was ready to use it.


[/COLOR]
Ronin I actually think we are assuming a lot that the kid was looking for a confrontation. From the video what I get is:

Guy is walking down the street, folks call the cops- we are actually assuming that based on the officers statement, we do not KNOW that the cop didnt see the guy walking along and made the stop, then backed it up with a BS story about complaints. See? I can ASSume as well.

Cop relieves the citizen of his weapon, which apparently the citizen did with no drama. The citizen gets concerned this might not be going his way, and starts recording.

Cop makes a lot of stupid mistakes- Citizen gets a little testy and just wants to go.

Thinking it over again, I would have not even been as nice as the citizen and probably would have gone to jail, because the cop was full of shit.

Bullshit open carry is "asking for it", any more than driving a red Corvette is "asking for it". No excuse for this behavior.

Seriously, step away from the cop juice.

So either BACK THE 2nd, or get off this bus ok?
To point out in both of these... are you both going to throw a hissy fit and start phoning lawyers if you OC and someone calls the cops? I never said the cop in the video was right- in fact I believe he was wrong from the start. But the kid's attitude and reaction could have been better. So because he's standing up for his rights, but doing it in a less than effective (and IMHO dickish) way I have to "back him or get off the bus"? I'm simply trying to convey the point that Open carry is very likely to attract unwanted/unneeded attention from "concerned" yet uninformed citizens, and possible LE. Again, I don't believe this is right, but it is what it is... I for one support OC, I just choose not to do it out in public very often, and I'm very selective as to where I do for the fact that I don't want the attention that comes with it. dwalker, I never said someone OCing is "asking for it" I'm simply saying thanks to our current society and social atmosphere if you OC in an area like Downtown Arvada or any other populated area, you can expect the possibility that someone will call 911. I seriously don't understand how you guys can't grasp this simple point I'm trying to make and accept it... or are you just wanting to argue with me?

[dwalker460]

To point out in both of these... are you both going to throw a hissy fit and start phoning lawyers if you OC and someone calls the cops? I never said the cop in the video was right- in fact I believe he was wrong from the start.

No one is saying they were going to phone lawyers, where do you get that?



But the kid's attitude and reaction could have been better.

The more I think about it I think the kids reaction is fine. He was relieved of his weapon and the cop had zero reason for contacting him, beyond the fact he had a firearm on him. Walking down the street with a gun on your hip is not a reason for LEO to contact you. The officer was wrong from the word go.


So because he's standing up for his rights, but doing it in a less than effective (and IMHO dickish) way I have to "back him or get off the bus"? I'm simply trying to convey the point that Open carry is very likely to attract unwanted/unneeded attention from "concerned" yet uninformed citizens, and possible LE.

The officer has no excuse, its his job to know. Its also his job to know that just because someone calls something in, doesnt mean he needs to harass a private citizen walking down the street. This is not martial law, and there are rules we all need to follow. The kid was following the rules. The cop was not. Dickish or not, the cop was wrong and the kid was right. Period, end of list.


Again, I don't believe this is right, but it is what it is... I for one support OC, I just choose not to do it out in public very often, and I'm very selective as to where I do for the fact that I don't want the attention that comes with it.

I am not getting that from your earlier posts. I get the idea that you feel anyone open carrying is only doing so to attract attention. This is a very poor stance and you should maybe re-assess your point of view on this.


dwalker, I never said someone OCing is "asking for it" I'm simply saying thanks to our current society and social atmosphere if you OC in an area like Downtown Arvada or any other populated area, you can expect the possibility that someone will call 911. I seriously don't understand how you guys can't grasp this simple point I'm trying to make and accept it... or are you just wanting to argue with me?

I am not trying to argue with you, but you were quite vocal and adamant that the kid should have expected to be contacted by LEO for just walking down the street and should have just accepted it and kowtowed to the officers demands and "just went along with it". Sorry, no. Police officers deserve respect for the job they do, but they do not have any right to just stop a citizen walking along the street with a gun on thier hip just because. Thats not an opinion, its the LAW, which is what the officers are supposed to not only understand, but to follow as well as enforce.

ETA- I have been contacted by the police while open carrying a couple of times. None of those experiences left me fond of the way officers tend to view armed citizens. A couple were fine and handled professionally, a couple were not and I threw a bloody fit. I have also had an officer draw their weapon on me. Forgive me if I have a dim view of the way police tend to regard armed citizens, but thats just how it is.

[Ronin13]

No one is saying they were going to phone lawyers, where do you get that?

The impression that I got... someone mentioned lawsuit somewhere...

The more I think about it I think the kids reaction is fine. He was relieved of his weapon and the cop had zero reason for contacting him, beyond the fact he had a firearm on him. Walking down the street with a gun on your hip is not a reason for LEO to contact you. The officer was wrong from the word go.

I agree.

The officer has no excuse, its his job to know. Its also his job to know that just because someone calls something in, doesnt mean he needs to harass a private citizen walking down the street. This is not martial law, and there are rules we all need to follow. The kid was following the rules. The cop was not. Dickish or not, the cop was wrong and the kid was right. Period, end of list.

I also agree with this, but the street is, as has been stated a lot on here before, not the place to fight it, unless you like being put in handcuffs, regardless of legal or not, some cops out there are unfamiliar with the law.

I am not getting that from your earlier posts. I get the idea that you feel anyone open carrying is only doing so to attract attention. This is a very poor stance and you should maybe re-assess your point of view on this.

No, the impression I got from this video (why else did he post it to youtube and/or memorize case law?) was that he was trolling for cops to interact with him so he could look like legal beagle billy badass- perception, perhaps not reality, but I know I'm not alone in thinking this.

I am not trying to argue with you, but you were quite vocal and adamant that the kid should have expected to be contacted by LEO for just walking down the street and should have just accepted it and kowtowed to the officers demands and "just went along with it". Sorry, no. Police officers deserve respect for the job they do, but they do not have any right to just stop a citizen walking along the street with a gun on thier hip just because. Thats not an opinion, its the LAW, which is what the officers are supposed to not only understand, but to follow as well as enforce.
I agree with you... but it's the way you handle the situation- first, and most important, be calm, cool, and respectful in dealings with LEOs. Are you required to surrender your firearm if a cop just walks up to talk to you? I'm not 100% sure on this, but if you aren't being suspected of committing a crime or breaking any law, walk away would be the best option. Unless you're under arrest/breaking a law/suspected of breaking a law I don't see how LEOs have any just ground to have you surrender your gun and/or show ID... But rattling off case laws that obviously most cops are oblivious to only serves the purpose to come off looking like you're trying to say "I'm smarter than you, now step off." That's how I would take it if I was just checking out a guy carrying a gun and he shot back with "Well, pfft, in Doe v. Virginia... blah blah blah" I'd think this kid is an asshole. Wouldn't it be perfectly fine to say "No sir, I have broken no law, I will not surrender my firearm, and I respectfully decline to show you my ID. Now if you don't mind I'm going about my business" ? Or Something along those lines?

[dwalker460]

Now your backpedaling. The kid was respectful the entire time. He asked specifically why he was being stopped, which is what I would do. He asked if the cop felt he was doing anything wrong or had commited a crime. Same thing I would do. The kid says, no, im not giving you my name or ID because its going to end up in some report somewhere, and you have no right to stop me. Where is your supervisor.

The cop was wrong. Paint it anyway you want, but as soon as the super got there it was over, because the super knew the law.

And walk away? Seriously? The cop had his gun, he asked several times to have it returned and to just walk on. Man just watch the video and pay attention to what actually happens.

Also, some people happen to know things, like case law, if he is a law student, he would know those things. And he did not start throwing around case law until the cop badgered him for his ID and name, which was WRONG. No matter how you slice it, the cop was wrong and the kid was right and if he hadnt had the video running probably would have gotten a nightstick upside his head to teach him "proper respect".

[generalmeow]

To point out in both of these... are you both going to throw a hissy fit and start phoning lawyers if you OC and someone calls the cops?

No, I'm going to be a huge prick to the cop that shows up if he doesn't know the law and starts trampling on my rights and is trying to steamroll me. Way more of a prick than this kid was, at least. And I would be wrong for doing so?

[Ronin13]

Now your backpedaling. The kid was respectful the entire time. He asked specifically why he was being stopped, which is what I would do. He asked if the cop felt he was doing anything wrong or had commited a crime. Same thing I would do. The kid says, no, im not giving you my name or ID because its going to end up in some report somewhere, and you have no right to stop me. Where is your supervisor.

The cop was wrong. Paint it anyway you want, but as soon as the super got there it was over, because the super knew the law.

And walk away? Seriously? The cop had his gun, he asked several times to have it returned and to just walk on. Man just watch the video and pay attention to what actually happens.

Also, some people happen to know things, like case law, if he is a law student, he would know those things. And he did not start throwing around case law until the cop badgered him for his ID and name, which was WRONG. No matter how you slice it, the cop was wrong and the kid was right and if he hadnt had the video running probably would have gotten a nightstick upside his head to teach him "proper respect".
You're right... I'm not going to argue this anymore- thinking on it he was in the right the entire time. I still would have refused to give up my gun.

[cmailliard]

What the hell, I usually don't get into to this stuff but I am in a mood

#1 The kid is a fucking idiot, YES it is your right, YES it is Legal to do so, but it is this kind of whistle dick that makes most "rational" gun owners look stupid.
#2 I am sure the Police know the law, did he try to push it a bit too far, yes. Make contact and determine intent. There is the other video out there where LE did it right, the first thing out of the LEO's mouth was something like "Thank you for exercising your 2A Rights. Just a couple questions and you will be on your way." That is all it takes.
#3 Somebody WILL call 911, fuck they call 911 for a drunk passed out on Colfax, there is drunk passed out on Colfax every other block. LE has a DUTY TO RESPOND and MAKE CONTACT.

Disclosure - Cops have saved my ass more than once, I respect them and the job they do.

[DingleBerns]

where's the FTP in this thread?!? Luckily i don't have to worry about OC since it's illegal in my city, but even if it wasn't I am still going to talk to you until you tell me to pound sand and attitude can go a long way. (where's the beating the horse smiley?)

[rondog]

where's the FTP in this thread?!? Luckily i don't have to worry about OC since it's illegal in my city, but even if it wasn't I am still going to talk to you until you tell me to pound sand and attitude can go a long way. (where's the beating the horse smiley?)
OC is illegal in Littleton? I thought it was just Denver and Boulder....where else is it illegal?

[Dingo]

Ah lovely. Yet another thought-provoking debate that quickly turned into name-calling and calling people variations on "stupid". This is why I rarely bother looking past the first few pages of posts on a controversial topic. It's interesting for a while until it turns into kintergarden.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Ah lovely. Yet another thought-provoking debate that quickly turned into name-calling and calling people variations on "stupid". This is why I rarely bother looking past the first few pages of posts on a controversial topic. It's interesting for a while until it turns into kintergarden.

Yep. Kindergarten, correct spelling, was a good time. I miss it.

[bogie]

In before recess.. or detention..

[Dingo]

Yep. Kindergarten, correct spelling, was a good time. I miss it.

Hey, I'm a night shift person on a temporary forced day shift circadian rhythm... don't judge me. lol.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Hey, I'm a night shift person on a temporary forced day shift circadian rhythm... don't judge me. lol.

Just givin ya shit, Mr. English.

[<MADDOG>]

In before lock with my 278th post since 2004...

Yea, I just kinda lurk and watch the bantering...

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

Moral of the story, our society has demonized guns for reasons that are self provoked by the people. As everyone knows guns should be respected not feared. But they are. Plain and simple.

How many non LEO ask a person dressed as a LEO if he is a felon while carrying a gun?
What would happen if a non leo attempted to disarm a LEO? Answer: ass whooping or worse.
Who has more right to disarm who, the law abiding citizen vs cop, or cop vs law abiding citizen?

All of us have the right to open carry, whether we do or not is personal preference. If you or someone you know does, we should be unapologetic in doing So. Quit it. Like dwalker said, get on or off the 2nd amendment bus. Stop half assing it.

Final words. I respect all veterans, current military, police officer, first responder, firefighter etc(minus politicians) but bottom line, we as "civilians", we the people have the same rights as they do.

PS: there is now way in hell I would be a police officer, that's gotta be one of the toughest jobs out there. Much kudos!

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Moral of the story, our society has demonized guns for reasons that are self provoked by the people. As everyone knows guns should be respected not feared. But they are. Plain and simple.

How many non LEO ask a person dressed as a LEO if he is a felon while carrying a gun?
What would happen if a non leo attempted to disarm a LEO? Answer: ass whooping or worse.
Who has more right to disarm who, the law abiding citizen vs cop, or cop vs law abiding citizen?

All of us have the right to open carry, whether we do or not is personal preference. If you or someone you know does, we should be unapologetic in doing So. Quit it. Like dwalker said, get on or off the 2nd amendment bus. Stop half assing it.

Final words. I respect all veterans, current military, police officer, first responder, firefighter etc(minus politicians) but bottom line, we as "civilians", we the people have the same rights as they do.

PS: there is now way in hell I would be a police officer, that's gotta be one of the toughest jobs out there. Much kudos!

I donno if you remember... Way back there was a video of a Florida Trooper pulling over some city cop for speeding... Dude's excuse was he was late for an off duty gig... Anyway, he was doing felony speeds... She pulled him over, cuffed him up, and took his gun from it.. Shit was funny. I loved it.

[sniper7]

Just givin ya shit, Mr. English.

Its engRish

[Aloha_Shooter]

Now your backpedaling. The kid was respectful the entire time. He asked specifically why he was being stopped, which is what I would do. He asked if the cop felt he was doing anything wrong or had commited a crime. Same thing I would do. The kid says, no, im not giving you my name or ID because its going to end up in some report somewhere, and you have no right to stop me. Where is your supervisor.

No he wasn't, he was condescending, arrogant and argumentative. He was smart enough to not appear physically aggressive but he was challenging the officer all through the video. He had a right to ask what he was being stopped for but the WAY he "asked" was confrontational and disrespectful. His demeanor throughout the video was that of a barracks lawyer tossing out case law citations.

Any way your slice it, the kid was as wrong as the cop. If anyone acted respectful and professional through that video, it was the cop.

[OtterbatHellcat]

The whole thing was a bait, the officer was doing normal shit for the circumstance in my eyes. The supervisor realized what was going on and let the punk go on his way.

I don't like infringement on any of my *rights* either, but this is a bullshit scenario. Yeah, OC is a right, but ask Rick Stanley about that and see where that got him.

Life is easier when you play by the rules, whether it's fair or not.

[DingleBerns]

OC is illegal in Littleton? I thought it was just Denver and Boulder....where else is it illegal?

Not Littleton, where I work its illegal.