So Beck rips into Colorado today.....

[BPTactical]

Listening to Beck and he goes off on Colorado essentially calling us a bunch of pansies, wondering where the real men are and how this happened here.
So I shot him an email:


Good afternoon Glenn and thanks for all you do.
I am a third generation Coloradoan and a professional in the firearms industry (Gunsmith)here. You asked today in your 1st hour where are the real people in Colorado and what the hell happened to us.

We are here and we are the majority aside from Denver and Boulder. We are speaking out but our voices are unheard. Our representatives and senators voice mails are full, e mails get bounced back and they have disabled comments on their Facebook pages.
They refuse to face their constituents.
I have sat through 24 hours of testimony only to hear the proponents tout outdated statistics, mis-truths and emotion based talking points. I have watched and listened as people with no standing in regards to our state legislative processes are coddled with kid gloves (Mark Kelly, Sandy Hook representatives etc) while citizens are scoffed at and disrespected. I have watched as the County Sheriffs Association which represents 62 of 64 counties stand united opposing these proposals with cold hard facts, only to have the vote follow party lines(D have the majority in the House and Senate).
The halls and chambers of our capitol have been standing room only with those that oppose these Draconian proposals, only for them to be uncounted and unheard.
We are witnessing Tyranny by purest of definition (oppressive power, a rigorous condition imposed by an outside agency(Washington and Bloomberg) an oppressive,harsh or unjust act)unfold before our eyes.
And yet despite overwhelming opposition (8-1) these arrogant and ignorant lawmakers willfully violate their oaths of office and continue the agenda to strip the rights of law abiding citizens of my native state.
We continue to fight for our rights but we face a very hard battle, these proposals are set to go to the Senate on Friday the 8th.
We are being rolled over by the Progressive machine known as Washington, Bloomberg and liberalism as a whole.
Regarding your comments as far as Amanda Collins testimony and comments by lawmakers to her, you are spot on as far as Evie Hudak goes. I cannot imagine how insulting to Amanda it was to have an arrogant elected official make a statement such as hers. Hudak is an ignorant and indignant excuse for an elected official. Miss Collins has my complete empathy.
However Ted Harvey was actually apologizing to her for lawmakers prioritizing student and educators feelings over her right to defend herself.
He is one of the good guys Glenn. We do have a few of them here and they are fighting very hard for us, they are just in the minority.
How did this happen to Colorado? Simple Glenn, we now have the 3rd largest Gay Pride week in the nation, we now have legalized pot. These people unfortunately have the same right to vote as you and I.
We have been overrun by the liberal creep that started in the 80's, falling squarely on the shoulders of former Denver Mayor, Federico Pena. He opened the door and we were too naive to see it or close it.

I am watching my home, what used to be a proud, conservative western state with traditional American values do a slow death roll.
It pains me to see this occur in my home state.

I am a native to this state.
It is no longer my home.

Thank you
Rob XXXXXX

We shall see if I get a reply

[Sawin]

Outstanding my friend. I hope he brings you on his show. I think the only part I can object to (and Glenn may object to as well) is your use of "unfortunately" with regards to the leftist minority having the "same right to vote...". I completely understand where you're coming from, but that's a right we all must hold dearest to our hearts, even more so than our 2A rights. Without the right to vote we're unequivocally F*CKED! At least right now we have the possibility to undo some of this in 2014...

I wish as much as anyone that the conservatives in CO were out voting in the vast numbers that the left were, but we can't hold it against them.... unless they cheated (which is still a matter of debate in and of itself.)

[sellersm]

Nice! Things always look different when you're viewing it from the ivory tower...

[XC700116]

Wow, that's exactly what I was thinking this morning on my way to the airport while listening to the show. The MSM is whitewashing it and the facts are being ignored as it pertains to the amount of opposition to the bills so if they didn't have someone there, they don't have the truth. I even watched on Fox News and they had cameras outside and showing maybe 5 people on the steets with signs. I tried calling in, but of course there's almost no way to get through anymore.

[baglock1]

Well written.

[Musashi]

Nicely worded. At the rate we are all writing we will be professionals soon.
OK
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Back to writing my classless Senator Hudak [LS]

[Melvin]

Still don't understand why everyone continues to ignore the intent of the founding fathers when they gave us the 2nd. If they wanted "talk" to be the preserver of freedom and liberty they would have stated that. They weren't liberals. They were intelligent, wise men who chose to learn from history and tried to preempt it from recurring. Like I have said before they could legislate tools but not intestinal fortitude.

[Kraven251]

I wish I would have found Colorado 10 years ago.

[sellersm]

Ross Kominsky (or whatever his name is) was on Sean Hannity yesterday and he actually presented the truth about the situation at the Capitol, what's happened here in CO and pointed out that overwhelming numbers of support that is AGAINST these bills! It was quite refreshing to hear truth over the airwaves!! He also pointed out the number of lobbyists from Bloomberg, etc. that were (and have been) present at the Capitol yesterday (and recently) as well as the negative influence from the 'DC politics'. He quoted one of the female representatives (sorry, don't recall who it was), but she's on record as telling Bloomberg & DC to "keep their East Coast politics out of our beautiful State"!

[griebel303]

That is a hell of a letter Rob! I am glad you stood up for the hard work that many people from this forum have been putting in lately. The truth of it is indeed our voices are going unheard. Amazing what a phone call from Biden can do.

[tmleadr03]

Did he cry while he talked about it?

[MarkCO]

Hope he replies. Having spent 5 days down there now and watching the shills put up as proponent experts is a complete travesty. The system is broken and unless Glenn can come fix it, he should support us, not kick us while we are down. The opponent expert class in the senate hearings was the best I have ever seen, and we still got handed the shaft.

[liberty19]

Well said sir. Thank you for taking the time to address these issues to Mr. Beck. Hopefully he will take them to heart and make mention of the real truth here.

[Clint45]

He also pointed out the number of lobbyists from Bloomberg, etc. that were (and have been) present at the Capitol yesterday.

These Bloombergian carpetbaggers from Noo Yawk City need to be tarred and feathered as an example to others. They should NOT be at the Colorado capitol influencing policy by handing out blank checks to Democratic senators.

[Bailey Guns]

Beck is a peckerwood anyway.

[Rooskibar03]

Hope he replies. Having spent 5 days down there now and watching the shills put up as proponent experts is a complete travesty. The system is broken and unless Glenn can come fix it, he should support us, not kick us while we are down. The opponent expert class in the senate hearings was the best I have ever seen, and we still got handed the shaft.

I don't think there was any putting us down in his tone. He is all over this and is on our side. If anyone saw the progressive movement coming and warned us about it, it was Glenn. We all simply chose not to listen.

[MarkCO]

I would not say all...

[TFOGGER]

Yes....but he's OUR peckerwood. [ROFL1]

I don't agree with all of his viewpoints, but at least he's on our side in this fight.

[Bailey Guns]

Yes....but he's OUR peckerwood. [ROFL1]


I suppose. It's not that I don't like him...I don't like his style, I guess.

[Sharpienads]

That is a good letter, Bert.

[StagLefty]

I heard the start of his tirade today and had to shut it off. I'm upset enough with the circus I watched yesterday.

[soldier-of-the-apocalypse]

A++++

[Singlestack]

I heard Beck today. He clearly misunderstood the comments from the Republican senator (bald guy, forgot his name). In fact, that senator was constantly reinforcing the good testimony and asking good questions all day. He was clearly on our side and worked his tail off.

[jmg8550]

Mr. Beck can go jump off a cliff. He knows not what he speaks, because he isn't here seeing with his own eyes whatis happening.

Shut the F up Glenn.

[bogie]

Did he cry while he talked about it?

+1...

He's the fucking pussy.

[tmleadr03]

+1...

He's the fucking pussy.

The other question I had was did he tell everyone that there was a monumental news article he needed to share with us that would change the way we see the world? But due to time constraints he ran over this hour he would share that at the top of the next hour. Then oops, missed that one too. Now you are just going to have to subscribe to his news letter to find out the most important news in the world?

[Big E3]

Very well said. I have lived here 57 years and I am third generation Colorado native. My dad is a WWII vet and still alive. He is now questioning why they were in Europe fighting for liberty and in this country we are now giving it away. I wish he did not have to see this happening, I'm embarrassed for my generation and our kids, allowing these people to be elected. For the first time in my life I am looking at real-estate in other states, but with all my family here it will be very hard to leave.

[sniper7]

Great letter!

I am hoping his words were meant to fire people up, even more so, to bring in the big wigs for us, to put some smack down on these lowlife democrats hell bent on taking our freedoms. Again, this is just a hope of mine. Not sure what his true meaning was.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

Is Glenn beck using the username sg1?

[Irving]

Ooohhh, you had me until your third to last paragraph. Bagging on gays and pot is exactly what got us to where we are now. Not productive at all; counterproductive actually.

The rest of the letter was spot on though.

[Jefe's AR]

Nobody is standing around 'letting' this happen. We ARE the majority but we can't force them to vote for us.

They are not listening today. I hope they hear us better the next election. I'm sure they will.

'Remember the magazine ban!'.

[Jefe's AR]

Not to mention we have Dave Kopel right here. Not three blocks away form the Capital. He's likely the foremost expert on the 2nd Amendment. He's testified. He's warned them that these new laws will not stand up when challenged. They don't care and don't listen.

[ANADRILL]

Listening to Beck and he goes off on Colorado essentially calling us a bunch of pansies, wondering where the real men are and how this happened here.
So I shot him an email:



We shall see if I get a reply

That was awesome...Ask Beck where the $%$ he was? Tell him if he was true, he would have been fighting the fight with his media pull in Colorado... or what is becoming Comirodo....

[Rooskibar03]

From tonights show he talked more about Colorado and the "Granola eating, sandal wearing freaks from California who have gone full progressive here in Colorado thanks to the money funneled in from Soros and his friends"

(* order of the quote is wrong but the content it there.)

[Teufelhund]

Outstanding my friend. I hope he brings you on his show. I think the only part I can object to (and Glenn may object to as well) is your use of "unfortunately" with regards to the leftist minority having the "same right to vote...". I completely understand where you're coming from, but that's a right we all must hold dearest to our hearts, even more so than our 2A rights. Without the right to vote we're unequivocally F*CKED! At least right now we have the possibility to undo some of this in 2014...

I wish as much as anyone that the conservatives in CO were out voting in the vast numbers that the left were, but we can't hold it against them.... unless they cheated (which is still a matter of debate in and of itself.)

Your comments reminded me of a passage from Douglas Adams' So Long and Thanks For All The Fish and I had to go find it:

“On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people.”
“Odd,” said Arthur, “I thought you said it was a democracy.”
“I did,” said Ford. “It is.”
“So,” said Arthur, hoping he wasn’t sounding ridiculously obtuse, “why don’t people get rid of the lizards?”
“It honestly doesn’t occur to them,” said Ford. “They’ve all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they’ve voted in more or less approximates to the government they want.”
“You mean they actually vote for the lizards?”
“Oh yes,” said Ford with a shrug, “of course.”
“But,” said Arthur, going for the big one again, “why?”
“Because if they didn’t vote for a lizard,” said Ford, “the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?”

[Jer]

I wish I would have found Colorado 10 years ago.

I did. Now I'm going to be forced to find another place to li(o)ve.

[Melvin]

Ooohhh, you had me until your third to last paragraph. Bagging on gays and pot is exactly what got us to where we are now. Not productive at all; counterproductive actually.



The above attitude is no different than having a muslim sympathizer in ranks of the Marine Corp. Shouldn't have been bagging on them should have been body baggin' them. Tolerance is horseshit.

[BPTactical]

The thing I fail to see is how I "bagged" on them. I simply stated the truth and in no way ridiculed or berated anybody.
The influx of their ilk and conservative complacency is exactly why we are in the fight we are.

[tmleadr03]

The above attitude is no different than having a muslim sympathizer in ranks of the Marine Corp. Shouldn't have been bagging on them should have been body baggin' them. Tolerance is horseshit.

Damn right! Not to mention allowing them uppity blacks to vote and shit.


[facepalm]

[ChuckNorris]

Awesome post! Thanks for sending that - hope you get a reply, or better yet, aired on TV!

[Jer]

Damn right! Not to mention allowing them uppity blacks to vote and shit.


[facepalm]

Don't even get me started on women! Suffrage... what a crock! Amirite?

[tmleadr03]

Don't even get me started on women! Suffrage... what a crock! Amirite?

I'll tell you what suffers, the damn sandwich making that's what. Never should have let them out of the kitchen.

[Jer]

I'll tell you what suffers, the damn sandwich making that's what. Never should have let them out of the kitchen.

I know, right? Those few minutes every other year away from the kitchen are more than my sandwich supply chain can handle!

[d_striker]

The thing I fail to see is how I "bagged" on them. I simply stated the truth and in no way ridiculed or berated anybody. The influx of their ilk and conservative complacency is exactly why we are in the fight we are. I don't think you were bagging on anyone....You were simply stating facts. ETA-Why does my post look jacked up?

[StagLefty]

Any replies BP ?

[buckshotbarlow]

+1 for the OP

[Clint45]

Tolerance is horseshit.

Tolerance of individuals who victimize others or conspire to strip them of their Constitutional rights is horseshit. Pretty much everything else I'm not inclined to criticize anyone about, because that falls under personal freedom as long as they are not infringing on the rights of others in so doing, especially if it is not out in public view. There needs to be less government meddling in people's lives, and persecution of individuals different from yourself who are not hurting you, your friends, or your family in some way cannot be justified.

[Sawin]

Tolerance of individuals who victimize others or conspire to strip them of their Constitutional rights is horseshit. Pretty much everything else I'm not inclined to criticize anyone about, because that falls under personal freedom as long as they are not infringing on the rights of others in so doing, especially if it is not out in public view. There needs to be less government meddling in people's lives, and persecution of individuals different from yourself who are not hurting you, your friends, or your family in some way cannot be justified.

^^ This is precisely my opinion as well. ^^

[Dingo]

I think it's wrong to want to strip American citizens of their right to vote, just for a stated reason that they practice things in their own life which we disagree with, i.e. pot smoking, pole smoking. But I think I sort of see what you're getting at - these progressives are fine with furthering all of the rights for these pet causes, while simultaneously trampling ours. The gay rights/pot advocacy stuff tends to go hand in hand with the same people who are so vehemently attacking our own personal freedoms of religion, self-defense etc. If they'd keep their legislative noses out of my business, I'd be more than happy to vote to allow them to mind theirs.

[Jer]

I think it's wrong to want to strip American citizens of their right to vote, just for a stated reason that they practice things in their own life which we disagree with, i.e. pot smoking, pole smoking. But I think I sort of see what you're getting at - these progressives are fine with furthering all of the rights for these pet causes, while simultaneously trampling ours. The gay rights/pot advocacy stuff tends to go hand in hand with the same people who are so vehemently attacking our own personal freedoms of religion, self-defense etc. If they'd keep their legislative noses out of my business, I'd be more than happy to vote to allow them to mind theirs.

Now we expect a group of people who our group as a whole has vilified (at best) to have our backs on something WE hold dear? C'mon people. Wake up! Our 'group' is comprised largely of older, white, Republican males and that hasn't been an open supporter of alternate lifestyles. Now we expect those who have had their basic human rights denied to them for no reason that affect us personally from our 'group' to have our backs when the same sort of thing comes around to threaten us?

Listen, I was in full support of that letter until I came to the part that threw another group of people under the bus. Not only was it unsolicited but it seemed to smack of pot & kettle. Whether you see it or not you did indeed attack a group of people where it was completely unnecessary to the point of the letter. Just because you were passive aggressive doesn't mean you weren't aggressive. Your point was being made just fine before bringing up a group of individuals who are in the same fight as us for their rights. No wonder it's so easy for the government to strip us all of our freedoms when we're busing fighting among each other while preaching of rights and liberties.

[Sharpienads]

I don't think the OP was ragging on anybody. In my experience, those two groups of people, especially the gay rights activists, are part of the larger progressive movement. The way they go about trying to get what they want is all wrong, and shows a complete ignorance of our system of government and liberty as a whole. Of course not all of them are part of the progressive movement, but it seems like a large majority are.

To answer your first question, Jer, no I would not expect them to back us. They are content asking their government for permission to do what they want, when, if they weren't liberal, progressive, whatever, they would tell the government to fuck off. Instead, they ask for permission, and whine when they don't get their way. Why would we want them on our side? Now if they were liberty-oriented in their arguments, I think they would get a lot more backing from true conservatives and libertarians or anybody else that loves liberty.

[Ronin13]

I don't think the OP was ragging on anybody. In my experience, those two groups of people, especially the gay rights activists, are part of the larger progressive movement. The way they go about trying to get what they want is all wrong, and shows a complete ignorance of our system of government and liberty as a whole. Of course not all of them are part of the progressive movement, but it seems like a large majority are.

To answer your first question, Jer, no I would not expect them to back us. They are content asking their government for permission to do what they want, when, if they weren't liberal, progressive, whatever, they would tell the government to fuck off. Instead, they ask for permission, and whine when they don't get their way. Why would we want them on our side? Now if they were liberty-oriented in their arguments, I think they would get a lot more backing from true conservatives and libertarians or anybody else that loves liberty.
Well said... I do have to say- and I guess you can call this a harsh criticism of "those people"- but they do seem rather hypocritical. Let me explain... First they want fair and equal treatment, an extension of marital rights granted to them (or recognized), and to peaceably enjoy the liberty to live their lives like anyone else. HOWEVER, many of these people are in the camp that wishes to restrict and severely limit OUR rights... So they want all their rights, but want to aid in taking away ours? No. I can't respect someone like that.

[BPTactical]

Again as stated there was no inference of denigrating or throwing any group(s) under the bus.
The man asked the question how Colorado became the way it is.
I view the 2 examples noted as symptoms of the overall issue. I could care less what somebody does in the privacy of their abode.
But when I am told I must accept these activities as "normal" even though one is illegal and the other goes against my moral values, all the while those that demand I must accept these things attempt to infringe upon my freedoms- I take great exception to that.

How did Colorado become what we have now?
Our moral compass is seriously out of calibration.

I sent the email to GB's producer, Stu yesterday.

I have heard nothing as yet.....

[Trigger]

I'm with most others on this one, I agree whole-heartedly with the OP and the content of his letter all the way up to the gay and pot smoking bit. What makes you think that some of those gays and pot smokers arent also gun owners and shooters? I personally know more than a few gays and pot smokers (although niether myself) who do more shooting, own more guns, and have more than several thousand's of hours spent into training on using their weapons. The statement "These people Unfortunately have the same right to vote as you and I" is a stupid and baseless comment. Of course "These People" have the same right to vote as you and I, They are American citizens just like you and I, They are not illegal aliens they were born here and bleed red, white, and blue just like you and I why should their lifestyle persuasion be any reason to ostracize them?

but to end on a good note, it was an outstanding letter with many valid points which outlined what is happening, not only in the country but also in Colorado specifically. +1 overall in my opinion.

[Sharpienads]

I took the "unfortunately they have the same right to vote as you and I" not as a statement that they should not have the right to vote, but that when they do vote, they vote for tyranny. Just my $0.02.

[Jer]

I'm with most others on this one, I agree whole-heartedly with the OP and the content of his letter all the way up to the gay and pot smoking bit. What makes you think that some of those gays and pot smokers arent also gun owners and shooters? I personally know more than a few gays and pot smokers (although niether myself) who do more shooting, own more guns, and have more than several thousand's of hours spent into training on using their weapons. The statement "These people Unfortunately have the same right to vote as you and I" is a stupid and baseless comment. Of course "These People" have the same right to vote as you and I, They are American citizens just like you and I, They are not illegal aliens they were born here and bleed red, white, and blue just like you and I why should their lifestyle persuasion be any reason to ostracize them?

but to end on a good note, it was an outstanding letter with many valid points which outlined what is happening, not only in the country but also in Colorado specifically. +1 overall in my opinion.

Exactly. The two replies after my last one could just as easily be said by someone who supports gay rights or MJ legalization about our cause but the people saying it don't see that and think their cause is SO much different. I've seen MANY argue from a liberty stand point but I guess since you don't agree with subject matter you choose not to see that There are MANY on our side that fight for 2A rights while fighting to take their rights so how is it different again? How are these two rebuttals not incredibly hypocritical? Try to see things with an open mind.

[Sharpienads]

I do see things with an open mind. I disagree with asking the government for permission to do something that you are rightfully allowed to do just by virtue of being alive.

[Rucker61]

I took the "unfortunately they have the same right to vote as you and I" not as a statement that they should not have the right to vote, but that when they do vote, they vote for tyranny. Just my $0.02.

I don't think that gays, women and potsmokers are voting for tyranny. They're voting for their rights. Unfortunately, the party that supports gun rights and other individual freedoms isn't the party that supports gay rights, women's rights or a sensible drug policy. Change that, and you change the world.

[Rucker61]

I do see things with an open mind. I disagree with asking the government for permission to do something that you are rightfully allowed to do just by virtue of being alive.

I agree. It's distasteful that they have to. Like most people here, most people over there abide by the law, and only the .gov can change the law that violates their rights.

[Sharpienads]

I don't think that gays, women and potsmokers are voting for tyranny. They're voting for their rights. Unfortunately, the party that supports gun rights and other individual freedoms isn't the party that supports gay rights, women's rights or a sensible drug policy. Change that, and you change the world.


Of course not all of them are, but why should anyone have to vote for their right to do anything? Again, it's the mindset that many have that they want the government to give them the right to do something, when in reality they already have that right by virtue of being alive. Why ask the government for something that you already posess? Because they don't understand liberty.

[Rucker61]

Of course not all of them are, but why should anyone have to vote for their right to do anything? Again, it's the mindset that many have that they want the government to give them the right to do something, when in reality they already have that right by virtue of being alive. Why ask the government for something that you already posess? Because they don't understand liberty.

Because the laws say, "No, you can't visit your long term partner in the ICU" and "No, your partner died without a will, so all of their shit goes to his nieces" or "No, you can't filed Married: jointly on your taxes". The folks saying 'no' have the power of arrest and confiscation.

[Jer]

I agree. It's distasteful that they have to.

Really? I think it's embarrassing that they HAVE to.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Because the laws say, "No, you can't visit your long term partner in the ICU" and "No, your partner died without a will, so all of their shit goes to his nieces" or "No, you can't filed Married: jointly on your taxes". The folks saying 'no' have the power of arrest and confiscation.

Horse feathers. This is more of the homosexual lobby propaganda. Hospital visitation rules are set for the protection of the patient and apply with equal force for anyone regardless of gender or sexual preference. Want to fix this? Get powers of attorney and then set the laws to recognize said powers of attorney. You do not need to monkey with the definition of what constitutes marriage. Of course, this doesn't fit the extremist agenda to redefine societal norms so not a solution they're willing to even recognize.

As far as probate laws go, it's easy to fix inheritance -- make a damned will. Again, no need to monkey with the definition of marriage except that the simple remedy of creating a will doesn't fit the extremist agenda to redefine society.

You have the right of free association -- it says so right in the Constitution. However, free association does NOT mean the government HAS to recognize any particular union. There's stronger historical precedent across most societies and religions for incestuous and polygamist marriages than for homosexual marriages so why don't we start with those? Answer (question was rhetorical anyway): incest and polygamy don't have strong political lobbies with deep roots in the entertainment industry and "mainstream" media.

I don't mind the homosexual lobby trying to change societal views on the norms but what pisses me off is the sneaky underhanded way they are doing it and the misrepresentations about "rights" and grievances.

[Jer]

Horse feathers. This is more of the homosexual lobby propaganda. Hospital visitation rules are set for the protection of the patient and apply with equal force for anyone regardless of gender or sexual preference. Want to fix this? Get powers of attorney and then set the laws to recognize said powers of attorney. You do not need to monkey with the definition of what constitutes marriage. Of course, this doesn't fit the extremist agenda to redefine societal norms so not a solution they're willing to even recognize.

As far as probate laws go, it's easy to fix inheritance -- make a damned will. Again, no need to monkey with the definition of marriage except that the simple remedy of creating a will doesn't fit the extremist agenda to redefine society.

You have the right of free association -- it says so right in the Constitution. However, free association does NOT mean the government HAS to recognize any particular union. There's stronger historical precedent across most societies and religions for incestuous and polygamist marriages than for homosexual marriages so why don't we start with those? Answer (question was rhetorical anyway): incest and polygamy don't have strong political lobbies with deep roots in the entertainment industry and "mainstream" media.

I don't mind the homosexual lobby trying to change societal views on the norms but what pisses me off is the sneaky underhanded way they are doing it and the misrepresentations about "rights" and grievances.

You mean the same societal views that are enforced by a government who grants special treatment and tax breaks for those married? Seems when they started trying to legislate morality they kind of screwed themselves on that one. Why the government has ANY dealings with marriage is beyond me but they do. So here we are.

[Ronin13]

Horse feathers. This is more of the homosexual lobby propaganda. Hospital visitation rules are set for the protection of the patient and apply with equal force for anyone regardless of gender or sexual preference. Want to fix this? Get powers of attorney and then set the laws to recognize said powers of attorney. You do not need to monkey with the definition of what constitutes marriage. Of course, this doesn't fit the extremist agenda to redefine societal norms so not a solution they're willing to even recognize.

As far as probate laws go, it's easy to fix inheritance -- make a damned will. Again, no need to monkey with the definition of marriage except that the simple remedy of creating a will doesn't fit the extremist agenda to redefine society.

You have the right of free association -- it says so right in the Constitution. However, free association does NOT mean the government HAS to recognize any particular union. There's stronger historical precedent across most societies and religions for incestuous and polygamist marriages than for homosexual marriages so why don't we start with those? Answer (question was rhetorical anyway): incest and polygamy don't have strong political lobbies with deep roots in the entertainment industry and "mainstream" media.

I don't mind the homosexual lobby trying to change societal views on the norms but what pisses me off is the sneaky underhanded way they are doing it and the misrepresentations about "rights" and grievances.
Hell yes!
http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowldc/files/2013/01/url-3.gif

[def90]

You mean the same societal views that are enforced by a government who grants special treatment and tax breaks for those married?

Exactly..

Theoretically the Government via separation of church and state should not even be granting "Marriage" licenses anyway. Apparently "Marriage" is defined in the Bible and is a religious term. A simple solution would be to take government completely out of the issue in the 1st place. If you want to get "married" go talk to your priest.. End of story.

[Rucker61]

Exactly..

Theoretically the Government via separation of church and state should not even be granting "Marriage" licenses anyway. Apparently "Marriage" is defined in the Bible and is a religious term. A simple solution would be to take government completely out of the issue in the 1st place. If you want to get married go talk to your priest.. End of story.


This is a big part of it: once marriage is religious, and anything to do with government like probate, taxes, etc, isn't limited to hetero couples, then we've got equality under the law. Sure, gay folks might complain that their Catholic priest won't marry them, but that's not our business. Governmentally, we need to have equality. That's all most gay people want. That's all most of us want. Outliers are in every demographic, admittedly.

[Stvros]

I don't want to flame this thread and was guilty of some serious hyperbole so I edited this response, hope I didnt offend anyone. Carry on...