View Full Version : Civil disobedience
It's clear after everything we have gone through in this state that now all the pressure must be placed on the governor to veto this bill. Realistically that is very unlikely, so in light of that. What are the chances that a protest such a magazine walk could be done? Any thoughts on this?
hghclsswhitetrsh
03-11-2013, 17:58
Call it the million mag march.
Call it the million mag march.
I like that, has a nice ring to it.
Rooskibar03
03-11-2013, 18:05
How about a march around the capital with AR in hand and as many "high cap" mags we can carry?
Geology Rocks
03-11-2013, 18:06
Line the streets on his drive to work? I am all for having an add taken out. Run it on TV? Can we call all the tabloids?[Bang]
How about a march around the capital with AR in hand and as many "high cap" mags we can carry?
DPD will confiscate those 30 rounders from you...they are already illegal in Denver. You can pass through with them if you are a non-resident, but I wouldn't "brandish" them.
And as another member pointed out to me recently...Hicky isn't running for re-election, he's going after a big National appointment...think Sec. of Energy (Frack Czar).
dwalker460
03-11-2013, 18:25
Yeap, he could care less about Colorado.
Lippy Laroux
03-11-2013, 18:31
DPD will confiscate those 30 rounders from you...they are already illegal in Denver. You can pass through with them if you are a non-resident, but I wouldn't "brandish" them.
I suppose if enough people "Brandish them" with a warning to residents, the DPD and Gov that confiscation will lead to riots prior to the march they would leave you alone. Kinda like sitting in the back of the bus while being black. Do it and ignore the "Infringing" unconstitutional law. If I still lived there I would get as many people as possible. Efem.
Rooskibar03
03-11-2013, 18:32
DPD will confiscate those 30 rounders from you...they are already illegal in Denver. You can pass through with them if you are a non-resident, but I wouldn't "brandish" them.
Fuck them. Get enough of us together, throw in a few senators and a sheriff or two and we'll see who's taking what from who.
DPD will confiscate those 30 rounders from you...they are already illegal in Denver. You can pass through with them if you are a non-resident, but I wouldn't "brandish" them.
That's the point of civil disobedience. We could also march with signs in the shape of magazines.
Rucker61
03-11-2013, 19:15
That's the point of civil disobedience. We could also march with signs in the shape of magazines.
If high school girls can make a prom dress out of duct tape, I can wear a kilt made out of pmag wrappers.
Great-Kazoo
03-11-2013, 19:23
If high school girls can make a prom dress out of duct tape, I can wear a kilt made out of pmag wrappers.
BAM!
Shootersfab
03-11-2013, 19:30
If high school girls can make a prom dress out of duct tape, I can wear a kilt made out of pmag wrappers.
Oh hell yes im in on this!
I bet tinelement will be also!!!!!!
SideShow Bob
03-11-2013, 19:34
If high school girls can make a prom dress out of duct tape, I can wear a kilt made out of pmag wrappers.
That is not a sight I would want to see even a picture of....[Puke]
T.rexford
03-11-2013, 20:03
A march, with hundreds of people open carrying rifles in Denver, in front of Hickenloopers house, is not a march or a protest. It is either slaughter by DPD or Revolution, take your pick. I have no opinion on the matter right now, I'm just stating what will happen.
We could go down to the capital on July 1st and pass around a 20 round PMAG like a joint. No bogartting!! :)
A march, with hundreds of people open carrying rifles in Denver, in front of Hickenloopers house, is not a march or a protest. It is either slaughter by DPD or Revolution, take your pick. I have no opinion on the matter right now, I'm just stating what will happen.
Actually, I think the CSP protects the governor.
Portsider86
03-11-2013, 20:53
A march, with hundreds of people open carrying rifles in Denver, in front of Hickenloopers house, is not a march or a protest. It is either slaughter by DPD or Revolution, take your pick. I have no opinion on the matter right now, I'm just stating what will happen.
It's only a revolution if there is involvement on our side from law enforcement and local government, otherwise it's just an act of terrorism by one of those extremist groups the southern poverty law center tried to warn us about.
It's only a revolution if there is involvement on our side from law enforcement and local government, otherwise it's just an act of terrorism by one of those extremist groups the southern poverty law center tried to warn us about.
^Yup, exactly! We'd get more done through peaceful means until the government decides it's had enough of peaceful resistance. Let them cast the first stone, it'll just make them look even worse than they already are. A lot of people in this country are already fed up with bad government.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-11-2013, 23:25
Lefties do those stupid sit-in, bare breasts for this and that, useless stuff. Civil Disobedinece? Not very hard since the laws are flawed from the get-go. Unless you trade a gun or a standard cap mag with an undercover cop these laws are unenforceable. No post 7/1/2013 dated standard cap magazines and keep your pie hole shut, like you should anytime a LEO starts asking about your guns.
Both of these laws could have been alot worse, with NY as an indicator- and still look at the shit storm they raised. 2014 has 1994 written all over it, and then some.
The one thing I worry about is DPD not giving a crap about the laws and will be cuffing and stuffing anyone that can't provide a paper trail for a firearm or has a 15+ round magazine and making them sue to get their lives back. Hopefully if this happens either the DA will step in on these bogus busts or perhaps a court order making DPD actually follow the law.
If you want civil disobediance, that would be it, 17 round 9mm mags and 20rnd Pmags waved in the face of DPD and see what happens. Please make sure they are unloaded ;)
Lot's of political and legal squabbles to go.....
I say we all go down there on 7/1/13, all stand next to each other in a big line, and with 30 round mags in hand, transfer them to the person on the right.
Since I came up with the idea, I get to be the last person on the right. We can call it "Mag Transfer Day"
NightCat
03-12-2013, 02:24
This popped up on Armslist...
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
On July 2, 2013, over 500 Colorado citizens will engage in an act of mass civil disobedience to demonstrate the foolish, arbitrary, capricious and unconstitutional nature of the HB 13-1224 which will have gone into effect on the day before.
These Colorado citizens will gather in a public park in Aurora, Colorado. Each of these citizens will bring a single unloaded regular capacity magazine of the type that has been in common use in Colorado and nation wide since the 1980s, and which each of them owned and possessed prior to the effective date of the statute. The United States Supreme Court has made CLEAR that law abiding citizens have a constitutional right to keep and bear arms that are in common use. There are millions of such magazines in Colorado, and they have been lawfully owned and used by Colorado citizens for defense, sport, target shooting, competition, and other lawful use for decades. Yet this property will have been transformed overnight into a form of contraband.
At exactly 12:00 noon, these citizens will begin to pass their magazines to each other, one to the other, again and again, in contravention of Colorado's new prohibition against transfer of existing regular capacity magazines.
The number of magazines will not change.
The nature of the people will not change, nor will their non-violent nature.
The fact these people are your friends, neighbors, co-workers, and fellow citizens will not change.
The "lethality" of the crowd will not change.
The danger "on the streets" will not change.
The number of magazines in circulation will not change.
The fact that the magazines have not been utilized to project violence or do any evil will not change.
At any given moment, each person will be holding one magazine that existed on the day the law came into effect, just as they did when they arrived.
But during the course of this organized civil disobedience, the crowd will be committing over 30,000 misdemeanors per minute. They will do so in direct and defiant challenge of a blatantly unconstitutional law, and will be prepared for arrest. In the event of arrests, each person will refuse to plea bargain and will insist on trial by jury. In conjunction, the gun rights organizations listed below will be assisting these individuals' legal defense, and bringing a constitutional challenge of the law both facially and as applied.
This protest will occur contemporaneously with similar protests in other states where politicians have determined to run roughshod over Constitutional rights in an attempt to make a showing of "doing something" about violence, but who lack the courage and political will to take a close look at the mental health system and the systemic failures that resulted from phasing out institutional care while greatly increasing the dispensing of dangerous psychotropic drugs.
T.rexford
03-12-2013, 08:19
Now that's a great idea. Completely overwhelm the court system. its a DoS attack.
scratchy
03-12-2013, 09:03
Can we bring pitchforks, tar and feathers? (rhetorical statement)
Aloha_Shooter
03-12-2013, 10:05
They will do so in direct and defiant challenge of a blatantly unconstitutional law, and will be prepared for arrest. In the event of arrests, each person will refuse to plea bargain and will insist on trial by jury.
The bold red part is important. One thing the leftists have ignored in recent years as they've tried to have their cake and eat it too is that TRUE civil disobedience means being prepared to suffer the consequences of that disobedience (unlike the OWSers who wanted to blatantly violate numerous laws without any consequences). What effect does violating the Unintelligent Metal Box Control Act of 2013 have on my CHP renewal? Will those rat bastards use this as an opportunity to blacklist us all on our 4473s for future purchases?
Definitely be ready for arrest in any protest, I like what T.rexford said about overwhelming the court system.
kidicarus13
03-12-2013, 13:08
"Overwhelming the court system" sounds like a good idea and may be effective on paper until you're the one getting arrested. Then you'll soon focus on, "Hey, why aren't all the others getting arrested?!" ...as they haul you off to get processed. Then you'll jump on COAR when released with a full head of steam and wonder where the post is about all those arrested during the demonstration and realize it was only you and two other guys that got arrested and the other two aren't even forum members. Then you'll post up about how you got arrested, can't afford the legal bill to fight the charge, how you'll fight to the death if they come-a-knocking for your guns, and the end with how much alcohol you've consumed while posting.
gnihcraes
03-12-2013, 13:34
Isn't the State Capital on State LAND, even though inside the "City" of Denver, can Denver DO anything about having a 30 round magazine on the State Property?
I have heard in the event of driving through extremely liberal states that it is best to break down your gun which effectively unqualifies it as a gun as it becomes just gun parts.
Would taking the spring out of a magazine qualify it as just parts allowing you to take said magazine into Denver territory?
I believe the mag bodies would be fine since magpul founder brought them to display at the capitol
NightCat
03-12-2013, 22:47
I wonder how they would treat empty magazines..
Is it still a magazine? It cannot feed a weapon ammunition if there is no ammunition in the magazine..
It might be best to pass them around in their original wrappers, isn't it then only a form of goods??
Interested as to the legal repercussions of this.
newracer
03-12-2013, 22:56
I have heard in the event of driving through extremely liberal states that it is best to break down your gun which effectively unqualifies it as a gun as it becomes just gun parts.
Would taking the spring out of a magazine qualify it as just parts allowing you to take said magazine into Denver territory?
I believe the mag bodies would be fine since magpul founder brought them to display at the capitol
I wonder how they would treat empty magazines..
Is it still a magazine? It cannot feed a weapon ammunition if there is no ammunition in the magazine..
It might be best to pass them around in their original wrappers, isn't it then only a form of goods??
Interested as to the legal repercussions of this.
If you are trying to find a way to make it legal it isn't really civil disobedience and not really the point.
If we hollowed out the magazines by removing spring and follower it is nothing but a rectangular cylinder! Can't be arrested? Right?
NightCat
03-12-2013, 23:00
If you are trying to find a way to make it legal it isn't really civil disobedience and not really the point.
True...but what Epyon is saying is somewhat what I'm on about.
If we hollowed out the magazines by removing spring and follower it is nothing but a rectangular cylinder! Can't be arrested? Right?
I wonder how they would treat empty magazines..
Is it still a magazine? It cannot feed a weapon ammunition if there is no ammunition in the magazine..
It might be best to pass them around in their original wrappers, isn't it then only a form of goods??
Interested as to the legal repercussions of this.
If we hollowed out the magazines by removing spring and follower it is nothing but a rectangular cylinder! Can't be arrested? Right?
A magazine without ammo is still a magazine.
A magazine shell without spring, follower, or baseplate can still "be converted to" operable condition as long as it was not permanently rendered inoperable.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-13-2013, 08:04
A magazine without ammo is still a magazine.
A magazine shell without spring, follower, or baseplate can still "be converted to" operable condition as long as it was not permanently rendered inoperable.
Converted to usually means having all the parts to assemble a mag, one part doesn't make a magazine otherwise a spring would be illegal... Just my take on it. I have little doubt that if you get lippy DPD would arrest you for a spring.
A 3d printer and a spool of nylon could be easily convereted into a mag....
Like I said, lefties do these symbolic stuff that gives them a record, something gun guys can little tolerate. I'd rather go Westboro Baptist and after the next mass shooting (since this won't actually stop those) hold up big signs that say that your loved one died because legislators decided to pass meaningless laws that actually don't stop evil people, that they were slaughtered in a self-protection-free-zone, voting for gun-grabbers instead of crime fighters has consequences- and you paid the price for their political stunts.
Tastless, of course; true, undeniable; productive, probably not; provocative, yep.
Bitter Clinger
03-13-2013, 08:32
This popped up on Armslist...
I like this. 10 bucks says its at the soccer field by my dads house, about a 1/4 mile east of tower on colfax. If this goes down I'm there. I can get arrested for a UN-constitutional law. I'm not married, no kids. Who will join me in a perfectly constitutional legal activity?
BlasterBob
03-13-2013, 08:36
Rather than have an actual metal/plastic magazine to parade around with, why not just make a very reasonable facsimile of one, make it out of cardboard and paint it black? Would make an interesting court case if they did arrest you for peacefully walking around the Capitol grounds with that piece of cardboard in hand.[Coffee]
Rather than have an actual metal/plastic magazine to parade around with, why not just make a very reasonable facsimile of one, make it out of cardboard and paint it black? Would make an interesting court case if they did arrest you for peacefully walking around the Capitol grounds with that piece of cardboard in hand.[Coffee]
Given how idiotic our state government is acting, I wouldn't be surprised if they did arrest someone for having cardboard in the shape of a magazine. Just like that kid with the pop tart!
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-13-2013, 18:05
They'd call it menacing with a weapon of mass destruction.
Rucker61
03-13-2013, 19:54
Counter arrest with impersonating a sapient being.
Kraven251
03-13-2013, 20:31
Counter arrest with impersonating a sapient being.
This I like.
Counter arrest with impersonating a sapient being.
What does that even mean???????????????????
Rucker61
03-13-2013, 21:39
What does that even mean???????????????????
sapient = intelligent, as in the difference between a human (homo sapiens) and a bug.
This popped up on Armslist...Is this legit? If so, I might try to make the trip up there to stand with you guys.
What does that even mean???????????????????
sapient = intelligent, as in the difference between a human (homo sapiens) and a bug.
To echo CO303... your explanation basically said "Counter arrest with impersonating an intelligent (ie: Human) being." ????? What else would I impersonate? A fucking walrus? You have just put my confusion meter in the red.
Rust_shackleford
03-16-2013, 14:49
sapient = intelligent, as in the difference between a human (homo sapiens) and a bug.
sorry that had to be ask, sad state of affairs in Merica
Circuits
03-16-2013, 15:06
The whole point of civil disobedience is to flagrantly, publicly, nonviolently and en masse violate a stupid law, to show its inanity and fundamental unenforcability. If large numbers of people flagrantly violate the law, the police don't have personnel or facilities to arrest and charge all the offenders, nor the courts time, judges and courtrooms enough to try the offenders.
The whole point of civil disobedience is to flagrantly, publicly, nonviolently and en masse violate a stupid law, to show its inanity and fundamental unenforcability. If large numbers of people flagrantly violate the law, the police don't have personnel or facilities to arrest and charge all the offenders, nor the courts time, judges and courtrooms enough to try the offenders.
This is why all the potsmokers are able to light up on 4/20 and not get busted even with police everywhere.
Wildboarem
03-17-2013, 11:33
I came across this, wish I had a couple of years ago. If we can be informed its amazing the Power we can wield. http://ia600407.us.archive.org/12/items/TheCitizensRuleBook/TheCitizensRuleBook.pdf
I've been a Jury foreman twice and had no idea of the actual power of the jury.
Frankly, I can't afford to be arrested for civil disobedience. That's the problem with a conservative cause civil disobedience activity...most of us have real jobs that depend upon stability and reputation. Meanwhile, so-called community organizers and basement-dwelling students on the 10-year graduation program can afford to spend days in jail with minimal effect on their lives. I'll have to contribute to the cause by writing letters and emails.
Blockhead
03-17-2013, 14:41
Frankly, I can't afford to be arrested for civil disobedience. That's the problem with a conservative cause civil disobedience activity...most of us have real jobs that depend upon stability and reputation. Meanwhile, so-called community organizers and basement-dwelling students on the 10-year graduation program can afford to spend days in jail with minimal effect on their lives. I'll have to contribute to the cause by writing letters and emails.
Good point. I wouldn't be able to get a job in my career field with a rap sheet.
Frankly, I can't afford to be arrested for civil disobedience. That's the problem with a conservative cause civil disobedience activity...most of us have real jobs that depend upon stability and reputation. Meanwhile, so-called community organizers and basement-dwelling students on the 10-year graduation program can afford to spend days in jail with minimal effect on their lives. I'll have to contribute to the cause by writing letters and emails.
you said it. people talk a big game but the fact is few want to put themselves on the line when they have a good job and a family, and understandably so. there really isn't a whole lot that can be done, but we only have ourselves (as a nation) to blame, we either voted for or didn't vote for the wrong or right people for years, and here is the result.
OneGuy67
03-17-2013, 17:11
you said it. people talk a big game but the fact is few want to put themselves on the line when they have a good job and a family, and understandably so. there really isn't a whole lot that can be done, but we only have ourselves (as a nation) to blame, we either voted for or didn't vote for the wrong or right people for years, and here is the result.
I agree. However, there are processes in place in which to fight these things after the signatures. There are recall efforts for the current legislators, there are candidates to endorse to run against the current legislators and to aid in their election efforts, there are state constitutional amendments to overturn these future laws. It takes more than hand wringing and big talk on a forum; it takes action.
It seems as though the general population of Colorado agrees with us on these gun bills as indicated by DP polls, community events and letters to editors of the various papers, yet a vocal minority are the ones being heard. There is no message from the silent majority. We need to send a message by getting involved in the recall efforts, in getting quality candidates to run for office, in getting the already filed constitutional amendments up and running by obtaining the necessary legal signatures to put it on the ballot in eight months.
Wildboarem
03-17-2013, 17:30
I think that is what a lot of Germans and Russians thought in the 30's.
Of course it's a risk going to jail for standing up for one's rights. If we can keep from civil disobedience through other efforts such as hounding the politicians, recalling, and voting them out then by all means yes, do so! As much as many republicans like to think they're the only ones getting screwed by these gun bills, they're not the only ones. Just take a glance at the governor's Facebook page alone, plenty of people are upset left, right, and middle. I just hope the momentum keeps up when the elections roll in and that better gun laws are placed into the books. Particularly laws similar to our neighboring states that say they won't be obeying anything the feds throw in terms of gun rights, drones, and abuse of the Patriot Act and NDAA provisions. (Even if such laws would only be ceremonial.)
Frankly, I can't afford to be arrested for civil disobedience. That's the problem with a conservative cause civil disobedience activity...most of us have real jobs that depend upon stability and reputation. Meanwhile, so-called community organizers and basement-dwelling students on the 10-year graduation program can afford to spend days in jail with minimal effect on their lives. I'll have to contribute to the cause by writing letters and emails.
Hick has said the removable floorplate issue will be "narrowly interpreted" so as to not be enforced. Why not pass 15 round mags with removable floorplates. Even pass floorplate extenders separately. They are still illegal, and the spectacle of civil disobediance has been achieved. Possibly with even more effect since the impression given to the masses by the media is these are legal. If there is an arrest, it immediately points out the hypocrisy.
osok-308
03-20-2013, 21:31
Frankly, I can't afford to be arrested for civil disobedience. That's the problem with a conservative cause civil disobedience activity...most of us have real jobs that depend upon stability and reputation. Meanwhile, so-called community organizers and basement-dwelling students on the 10-year graduation program can afford to spend days in jail with minimal effect on their lives. I'll have to contribute to the cause by writing letters and emails.
^^^^^ This^^^^^ Let's keep going through the legal channels now, and try to get this repealed.
Great-Kazoo
03-20-2013, 22:42
MAGS AROUND the MANSION.
Everyone bring a block of wood painted black to resemble an AR mag. AND PUT IT IN A MAGPUL WRAPPER! enough people to ring around the .govs house sends a message. Even better when you start handing off the "mag" to the person next to you. Then throw them at the same time on his lawn.
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