Serious Question

[d_striker]

I'm assuming that all pistols, with mags>15 rounds, sitting on a dealer's shelf before 7/1/13 are GTG. These will sell quickly. How do CO citizens buy any pistols with mags>15 rounds going forward? It's not like any of the OEM's are going to start making 15 round mags any time soon, if ever. We would have been better off if it stayed at 10 rounds as most of the pistol OEMs are used to selling to ban states already. The only way around this that I can think of is if we can buy the pistol w/o mags.

[J]

The shops will start stocking 10 round compliance versions of firearms that usually have more than 15 rounds. You will be able to get a G22 with a 15 round mag, but a G17 will come with a 10 rounder.

That's my guess anyways.

[HBARleatherneck]

We would have been better off if it stayed at 10 rounds as most of the pistol OEMs are used to selling to ban states already. The only way around this that I can think of is if we can buy the pistol w/o mags.

no, we would have been better off if our freedom to own the firearm of our choosing wasnt taken away.

i own a few xdms. of course these guns game with a 19 round magazine (the 9mm ones)

the market always catches up. someone will make an insert that will be permanently attached inside the magazines. they allready sell them for ARs and probably others.

[d_striker]

The shops will start stocking 10 round compliance versions of firearms that usually have more than 15 rounds. You will be able to get a G22 with a 15 round mag, but a G17 will come with a 10 rounder. That's my guess anyways.
I'm dumb sometimes. I forgot that 10<15

[d_striker]

no, we would have been better off if our freedom to own the firearm of our choosing wasnt taken away. i own a few xdms. of course these guns game with a 19 round magazine (the 9mm ones) the market always catches up. someone will make an insert that will be permanently attached inside the magazines. they allready sell them for ARs and probably others.

Not having the legislation being proposed or passed being the best situation goes without saying.

XDm's are one gun that one cannot get 10 round mags for.

[MED]

The bill bans all ammunition feeding devices that are readily convertible. Under this language, I don't think they can sell any magazine with removable base plates.

For instance, how can they sell a G19 magazine when you can order a mag extension to add two rounds?

[Ronin13]

Just FYI- last time I checked, most (if not all) handgun manufacturers make CA legal magazines for their guns (10 rounds)... you should be fine.

[d_striker]

Just FYI- last time I checked, most (if not all) handgun manufacturers make CA legal magazines for their guns (10 rounds)... you should be fine.
Not all.

[HBARleatherneck]

XDm's are one gun that one cannot get 10 round mags for.

not from the factory, but I guarantee someone will make a permanent kit to modify capacity.

http://www.ebrwebstore.com/EBR_Works_Exclusives.html/

http://www.vaportrails.us/html/xdm.html

there are multiple websites and posts addressing the mods.

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/xd-m-discussion-room-xd-m/126659-xd-m-10-round-magazine-california-3.html

post 25 says a business stocks them.

[d_striker]

not from the factory, but I guarantee someone will make a permanent kit to modify capacity. http://www.vaportrails.us/html/xdm.html there are multiple websites and posts addressing the mods. http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/xd-m-discussion-room-xd-m/126659-xd-m-10-round-magazine-california-3.html post 25 says a business stocks them.
If an OEM does not make the mags, how can one get the gun to start with?

[HBARleatherneck]

If an OEM does not make the mags, how can one get the gun to start with?

they are doing it all over california just google the question. i found the answer on several forums in just a few seconds. calguns, xdtalk and others.

[mutt]

they are doing it all over california just google the question. i found the answer on several forums in just a few seconds. calguns, xdtalk and others.

Great. Now we can look to CA for gun advice. That makes me feel so warm and fuzzy inside...

[brobar]

If an OEM does not make the mags, how can one get the gun to start with?

It will be extremely difficult. I travel to CA often and I take my XDM 5.25 out with me. The GUN is completely legal to own there... but the 19 round magazines are not. So I had a few of my 19 round magazines permanently converted to 10-rounders and I take those. My buddies and coworkers all clamor to shoot my 5.25 when we go to the range because they can't get their hands on them there. They are sold to law enforcement (since they can have 19 rounds) but they aren't available to the general public.

That is the part that sucks about this bill once it passes. If the ten 19-round magazines I have for my two 5.25's are lost, stolen, break or just eventually wear out... it will render those firearms useless since I can't purchase more and nobody manufacturers 15-rounders for it. My only hope will be some state who can have the 19-rounders, permanently convert them to 15 rounders for me and then ship them to me.

[Kraven251]

Also...realize any magazine that can be readily/easily converted to hold more.

Most if not all magazines have kits you can buy to add another 2-5 rounds, or the modification is consider "easy" within the scope of the verbage. It isn't a 15 rnd mag ban, it is a mag ban period. No magazines could be sold in the state unless they were permanently modified to not allow extensions or any other such devices.

This would mean magazines would pretty much be modified in such a way you could not repair them. While there are 10 round glock and sig mags that I am aware of, all of those can be modified to hold additional rounds, even if the count is under 15, the verbage makes them illegal.

Thus it is broad sweeping and unenforceable.

[d_striker]

Also...realize any magazine that can be readily/easily converted to hold more.

Most if not all magazines have kits you can buy to add another 2-5 rounds, or the modification is consider "easy" within the scope of the verbage. It isn't a 15 rnd mag ban, it is a mag ban period. No magazines could be sold in the state unless they were permanently modified to not allow extensions or any other such devices.

This would mean magazines would pretty much be modified in such a way you could not repair them. While there are 10 round glock and sig mags that I am aware of, all of those can be modified to hold additional rounds, even if the count is under 15, the verbage makes them illegal.

Thus it is broad sweeping and unenforceable.

That's the way I interpret the bill as well....I guess we'll see how it shakes out.

[tmleadr03]

Glad I have 10 17 round mags already for my M&P. Now I need another 17 mags for my AR to compliment the 13 I already have.

I like even numbers.

[KestrelBike]

Glad I have 10 17 round mags already for my M&P. Now I need another 17 mags for my AR to compliment the 13 I already have.

I like even numbers.

Hah ah shit. Here i was thinking "I'm ok, I've got plenty of mags!" Not realizing that if I decide to get another pistol, I'm back at square 1 come July 1st or earlier.

[Fromk]

The GUN is completely legal to own there... but the 19 round magazines are not. So I had a few of my 19 round magazines permanently converted to 10-rounders and I take those. My buddies and coworkers all clamor to shoot my 5.25 when we go to the range because they can't get their hands on them there. They are sold to law enforcement (since they can have 19 rounds) but they aren't available to the general public.

That's not exactly correct. The reason they want to shoot it is because the XDM is not on the roster of approved handguns in Cali. The mags have nothing to do with it.

Recently someone at work asked me if the recent proposals reminded me of living in California. He didn't understand at first when I said Colorado still has a long way to go. Be thankful we don't have a VERY specific list of handguns we can buy and a specific list of long guns we can't.

[brobar]

That's not exactly correct. The reason they want to shoot it is because the XDM is not on the roster of approved handguns in Cali. The mags have nothing to do with it.

Recently someone at work asked me if the recent proposals reminded me of living in California. He didn't understand at first when I said Colorado still has a long way to go. Be thankful we don't have a VERY specific list of handguns we can buy and a specific list of long guns we can't.

Is one of the reasons it isn't on the roster because it doesn't have 10-round magazines and SA refuses to make a 10-round magazine for it? My XD9 subcompact is on the list (they make a 10-round CA compliant magazine for it).

In other words... is there a way to make the approved list without compliant magazines? There is no way to sell that firearm in a local Cabellas, Bass Pro, Sportsman's Warehouse, etc... to the general public without 10-round magazines which SA still doesn't make for the XDM... so the list seems like a moot point. My friends back in CA won't be able to purchase the firearm in a gun store without a CA compliant magazine (unless gun stores are able to part the firearms with magazines before selling but I doubt manufacturers would allow them to do that).

[HBARleatherneck]

if you read some of the links I posted, you will see how it works. companies out of state are doing the modification and shipping the pistols that way. they are doing a single shot conversion. they call it SSE (single shot exemption) here is the link http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=383692&highlight=single+shot+exemtion . it costs $100 something bucks and after inspection you could hypothetically change it back, using the converted magazines.
http://www.ebrwebstore.com/EBR_Works_Exclusives.html/
table rock arms i guess does them too. IT IS BEING DONE IN CALIFORNIA.

if they have passed the registration in the single shot mode then they are good even though they arent on the list.

[Fromk]

Is one of the reasons it isn't on the roster because it doesn't have 10-round magazines and SA refuses to make a 10-round magazine for it? My XD9 subcompact is on the list (they make a 10-round CA compliant magazine for it).

In other words... is there a way to make the approved list without compliant magazines? There is no way to sell that firearm in a local Cabellas, Bass Pro, Sportsman's Warehouse, etc... to the general public without 10-round magazines which SA still doesn't make for the XDM... so the list seems like a moot point. My friends back in CA won't be able to purchase the firearm in a gun store without a CA compliant magazine (unless gun stores are able to part the firearms with magazines before selling but I doubt manufacturers would allow them to do that).

To get on the list the manufacturer has to send a certian number of pistols in for testing. They have to send one of EVERY variation they want on the list and this is what causes problems. For instance having a different barrel length, slide, frame (like a beaver tail), and even finish means it's a different gun. You can see the list at http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/. That doesn't account for LA city which has an overall size restriction so a lot of 2" revolvers and that kind of thing can't be purchased there.

A resident can not import an off-list gun BUT anyone moving to the state can bring whatever they want and then sell it after they become residents. I guess there are people who buy a bunch of STI frames or whatever and sell them at a sizable markup when they move into the state. This does not apply to the magazines. There's the "rebuild kit" work around but for guns that didn't exist before the ban it's not helpful. Mags would have to be permanently converted to 10 rounders.

The magazine thing is its own weird thing. You can't manufacture, purchase, import, or sell magazines over 10 rounds but there's no law against posession. Weird, huh? That's how you can order a rebuild kit consisting of a tube, spring, follower, and floorplate for all the magazines you totally had before the ban or found in a gutter.

[hatidua]

IF, a pistol or magazine that holds more than 15rds is on someones wish list, right now might be a really good time to think about moving ahead with that. Once mid-June rolls around, you can be all but certain that discounts are not going to be given to CO residents who are on their final days of purchase eligibility. I do not hold it against the capitalists who will be making some serious profit in those final days as anyone that waits that long gets their just rewards for procrastination.

[brobar]

To get on the list the manufacturer has to send a certian number of pistols in for testing. They have to send one of EVERY variation they want on the list and this is what causes problems. For instance having a different barrel length, slide, frame (like a beaver tail), and even finish means it's a different gun. You can see the list at http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/. That doesn't account for LA city which has an overall size restriction so a lot of 2" revolvers and that kind of thing can't be purchased there.

A resident can not import an off-list gun BUT anyone moving to the state can bring whatever they want and then sell it after they become residents. I guess there are people who buy a bunch of STI frames or whatever and sell them at a sizable markup when they move into the state. This does not apply to the magazines. There's the "rebuild kit" work around but for guns that didn't exist before the ban it's not helpful. Mags would have to be permanently converted to 10 rounders.

The magazine thing is its own weird thing. You can't manufacture, purchase, import, or sell magazines over 10 rounds but there's no law against posession. Weird, huh? That's how you can order a rebuild kit consisting of a tube, spring, follower, and floorplate for all the magazines you totally had before the ban or found in a gutter.

I understand how the testing works. What I'm getting at is... none of my friends would be able to walk into a retailer and purchase an XDM 5.25 in CA even if it were on the approved list because it is not sold with 10-round compliant magazines. If it were on the approved list... I guess maybe they could find it used somewhere WITHOUT magazines. But they would never be able to walk into a Cabellas or Bass Pro and purchase a 5.25, new in box, because I doubt Springfield Armory would submit to having the new package "split" before being sold.

Since there are many other SA firearms on the approved list (that they make 10 round or less magazines for), couldn't one deduce that the reason SA hasn't submitted the firearms for testing in CA because they know it would be for nought since they don't make CA compliant magazines for it anyways? Chicken or egg... it really doesn't matter which comes first... I don't think SA will be doing any leg work to try and get the 5.25 on the list when it can't be sold in CA anyways because of the capacity restrictions. And I really can't blame them for NOT succumbing to CA rules and making a 10-rounder for it. Just like I don't think they will start making 15-rounders for the 5.25 just for us here in CO.

[Fromk]

Shops can't let a gun go out the door with a magazine that holds over 10 rounds. I imagine if Springfield submitted the XDM for the California market they'd be making 10 round magazines for it themselves. The market there is really big in spite of all the restrictions and it's probably just a matter of time. I don't want to derail this thread too much.