View Full Version : Serious questions about the libtard mag limit law
GilpinGuy
03-13-2013, 21:59
After it passes, I understand that I cannot buy or sell 15+ round mags, but:
Can I give them away, or accept them as a gift? (give them to my son? receive them from my dad?)
Can I use them for barter? I assume NO, but I don't know how shitty the bill is written.
When I die, can I Will them to someone? If not, what happens to them? They aren't going to vaporize.
MOST IMPORTANT (to me anyway): My folks will be moving to CO in a few months - probably post-ban though. If I buy some P-Mags now "for my dad" can I give them to him after he moves here? What about mags I've had forever? I plan on sending him a paper letter dated and postmarked this month declaring that "I hereby give you XXX 30-round AR-15 magazines and will keep them in my safe until you move here....." Not sure if that will fly.
This is all so fucking stupid...all this for a plastic box with a spring in it. LIBTARDS But here we are... governed by THEM. [bad-banana]
It says no "transfer", so no gifting. Transfer of ownership cannot occur. When you die, they legally have to be destroyed or turned in to law enforcement.
Not sure about folks moving in. My brother is moving in. He has tons of 15+ mags.. No idea how that's going to go, I have the same question.
Kraven251
03-13-2013, 22:03
Check out the threads going on in the Legislation and Politics section, lots of info there on these questions
though the law is worded so badly, I am not sure I am going to worry too much about it until it holds up in court
OtterbatHellcat
03-13-2013, 22:08
I'm really disappointed in all of this horse shit. Wish I knew the answer to your question GG.
I'm going to have a contract signed and NOTARIZED that states that ALL of my magazines have been transferred to my children collectively before the ban date.
I'm also going to have all of my long guns transferred to my children as well.
kidicarus13
03-13-2013, 22:20
Do what you want with them and remember... Whomever is in possession of them at the time someone that matters asks the answer is always, "they are mine."
Then you are not allowed to possess or shoot those mags. By the strict letter of the law.
I'm going to have a contract signed and NOTARIZED that states that ALL of my magazines have been transferred to my children collectively before the ban date.
I'm also going to have all of my long guns transferred to my children as well.
Would this not prevent you from using the mags?
battle_sight_zero
03-13-2013, 22:23
Check out the threads going on in the Legislation and Politics section, lots of info there on these questions
though the law is worded so badly, I am not sure I am going to worry too much about it until it holds up in court
And if we don't change this there are plenty of other states that will welcome us into the freedom loving fold. I can't cruise for a few years but boy are there some nice properties in Wyoming and Idaho. Always planned to buy some nice acreage from the farmers/ ranchers in the family in Colorado but looking out of state got me excited. I will fight it out and hope for the best but the retreat plan does not look bad. Being a 5 th generation Coloradoan of course I am partial to my state, but heck my ancestors came here looking for freedom and happiness I guess I could do the pioneer thing too. However here's hoping for something to change.
Would this not prevent you from using the mags?
Well... Maybe I'll keep a few.... LOL. My collection has never been about me really. It has always been for my children.
GilpinGuy
03-13-2013, 22:38
though the law is worded so badly, I am not sure I am going to worry too much about it until it holds up in court
Or you end up in court. Not to be an ass, but you can only win in court (most of the time) if you have a shit-ton of dough. I don't, so I'd rather stay out of court.
I think you should disassemble your mags and put all the parts in a box, then give him a box of replacement mag parts that you have.
low drag
03-14-2013, 05:47
Buy some now and give them to your family when they get here.
Consider:
Would Robin Hood care if he gave a large quiver to someone?
Most mags are not serialized. The burden of proof is on their side. The 5th amendment is on your side.
It actually goes deeper..
" The bill prohibits the sale, transfer, or possession of an
ammunition feeding device that is capable of accepting, or that can be
readily converted to accept, more than 15 rounds of ammunition or more
than 5 shotgun shells (large-capacity magazine). A person may possess
a large-capacity magazine if he or she owns the large-capacity magazine"
So.... I guess just about every mag with a floor plate will now be illegal?????
Great-Kazoo
03-14-2013, 07:29
It actually goes deeper..
" The bill prohibits the sale, transfer, or possession of an
ammunition feeding device that is capable of accepting, or that can be
readily converted to accept, more than 15 rounds of ammunition or more
than 5 shotgun shells (large-capacity magazine). A person may possess
a large-capacity magazine if he or she owns the large-capacity magazine"
So.... I guess just about every mag with a floor plate will now be illegal?????
Quick spot of epoxy on plastic and a pop rivet on metal / AL mags will show they are not able to be "Altered" IF you are that concerned. Unfortunately my spouse has more mags than I. never know how many our grown daughter has stashed either.
n8tive97
03-14-2013, 07:31
I am going to die in a state that supports the 2nd Amendment! I will not turn over anything to this DB state.
rockhound
03-14-2013, 07:34
Most mags are not serialized. The burden of proof is on their side. The 5th amendment is on your side.
You sir are a funny man. do you really think they give a crap about your constitutional rights. the way i see it the only thing the 30 rounders would be good for would be for SHTF times, stock up on 15 rounders and that is what you will shoot with. They are trying to making felons of everyone if they can.
Looking into a gun trust for my family, not sure the magazines would be covered.
Great-Kazoo
03-14-2013, 07:42
You sir are a funny man. do you really think they give a crap about your constitutional rights. the way i see it the only thing the 30 rounders would be good for would be for SHTF times, stock up on 15 rounders and that is what you will shoot with. They are trying to making felons of everyone if they can.
Looking into a gun trust for my family, not sure the magazines would be covered.
Unless you own a M1 carbine. no one mfg 15 round rifle mags.
Quick spot of epoxy on plastic and a pop rivet on metal / AL mags will show they are not able to be "Altered" IF you are that concerned. Unfortunately my spouse has more mags than I. never know how many our grown daughter has stashed either.
Not concerned here, as I consider these new bills as B.S and will be treated as such. Anyhow, I'm just curious how far they will take the "converted" language. Although, I might take your advice about epoxy, and think about investing in a glue manufacture as this language also pertains to semi auto pistol magazines.
Great-Kazoo
03-14-2013, 08:43
Not concerned here, as I consider these new bills as B.S and will be treated as such. Anyhow, I'm just curious how far they will take the "converted" language. Although, I might take your advice about epoxy, and think about investing in a glue manufacture as this language also pertains to semi auto pistol magazines.
Stop over the house and i will show you how easy it is to "alter' a mag to meet the new law. Unless you west siders don't want to be seen on this side of town;)
I really don't understand why everyone is all up in arms about this... first off- unless the mags have a manufacture date on them showing after 7/13 there is no way to prove you did/didn't own them before or after the date; second- I highly doubt police are going to go out of their way (when many are already busy enough with the day to day stuff) to inspect your magazines; third- the burden of proof is with the prosecution, remember that innocent until proven guilty? That still stands... so far.
I really don't understand why everyone is all up in arms about this... first off- unless the mags have a manufacture date on them showing after 7/13 there is no way to prove you did/didn't own them before or after the date; second- I highly doubt police are going to go out of their way (when many are already busy enough with the day to day stuff) to inspect your magazines; third- the burden of proof is with the prosecution, remember that innocent until proven guilty? That still stands... so far.
So just don't follow the law. That's a great idea. What other laws should we ignore?
kidicarus13
03-14-2013, 09:24
So just don't follow the law. That's a great idea. What other laws should we ignore?
Stop being a Nancy.
brianakell
03-14-2013, 09:47
Im no lawyer, but, maybe this is legit way to do this:
Before the ban, have the "moving to colorado" ship a box of mags, to your house, with their own name on it. Ie, Bob is moving to Colorado, he ships a box to Joe, but with Bob's name on it. UPS has zero issue with doing this.
In this case, Joe does not open the box, never taking possession of the contents. Joe arrives, and opens box. ags were in Colorado before the ban, and No one else has had possession besides Joe.
Thinking farther, you could do something similar with a airport style locker, or bank safety deposit box. Mail mags, Bob puts in locker, mails Joe the key, and Joe opens locker after arriving in Colorado.
I really don't understand why everyone is all up in arms about this... first off- unless the mags have a manufacture date on them showing after 7/13 there is no way to prove you did/didn't own them before or after the date; second- I highly doubt police are going to go out of their way (when many are already busy enough with the day to day stuff) to inspect your magazines; third- the burden of proof is with the prosecution, remember that innocent until proven guilty? That still stands... so far.
Owning or not owning prior to the ban is not my concern here. My question was that the way the bill is currently written makes ANY magazine, rifle or pistol, illegal if it has a floor plate. Reason being, the floor plate can be removed, spring swapped out and now a 15 round magazine can hold 17. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not dwelling on this, I'm just curious if that is what the wording does in fact mean, and if so, were in some deep shit. It would basically outlaw just about every magazine out there.
lowbeyond
03-14-2013, 09:58
So just don't follow the law. That's a great idea. What other laws should we ignore?
At this point, anything you don't agree with.
I bet you are already are breaking a bunch of laws, you just don't know it.
Unless you own a M1 carbine. no one mfg 15 round rifle mags.
Spot on. Apparently I'm not the only funny man here....
Reason being, the floor plate can be removed, spring swapped out and now a 15 round magazine can hold 17. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not dwelling on this, I'm just curious if that is what the wording does in fact mean, and if so, were in some deep shit. It would basically outlaw just about every magazine out there.
You'd likely also render your modified mag to be totally unreliable.
I have a common S&W 9mm pistol that has standard mags that are 16 rounds. I'm treating this like the Clinton ban. Stock up on those mags that you won't be able to purchase in the future. A semi-auto without reliable mags is pretty much useless.
I've been known to buy standard capacity magazines for pistols I might like to own sometime in the future.
Stop over the house and i will show you how easy it is to "alter' a mag to meet the new law. Unless you west siders don't want to be seen on this side of town;)
Ha!! I may be on the west side, but I'm not up on the hill, not even close.........
Zundfolge
03-14-2013, 11:40
For the umpteenth time:
“Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.”
-Scene from Atlas Shrugged
So just don't follow the law. That's a great idea. What other laws should we ignore?
Well did you know it's still illegal (punishment is still hanging) for cutting a barbed wire fence that you don't own? Or about in Boulder, there's a law that states your llamas cannot graze on city property. There are plenty of laws that are either asinine, unconstitutional, or just plain retarded... most of which are near-impossible (magazine ban) to enforce. The only way to truly have a magazine ban that is enforceable is to not have a grandfather clause. I seriously doubt there will be many, if any, arrests related to this bullshit law.
kidicarus13
03-14-2013, 13:46
Well did you know it's still illegal (punishment is still hanging) for cutting a barbed wire fence that you don't own? Or about in Boulder, there's a law that states your llamas cannot graze on city property. There are plenty of laws that are either asinine, unconstitutional, or just plain retarded... most of which are near-impossible (magazine ban) to enforce. The only way to truly have a magazine ban that is enforceable is to not have a grandfather clause. I seriously doubt there will be many, if any, arrests related to this bullshit law.
I think for the first time ever I agree with Ronin on this one.
Well did you know it's still illegal (punishment is still hanging) for cutting a barbed wire fence that you don't own? Or about in Boulder, there's a law that states your llamas cannot graze on city property. There are plenty of laws that are either asinine, unconstitutional, or just plain retarded... most of which are near-impossible (magazine ban) to enforce. The only way to truly have a magazine ban that is enforceable is to not have a grandfather clause. I seriously doubt there will be many, if any, arrests related to this bullshit law.
+1 for Ronin. Rock on brother. I've said it before...these moron politicians who are supportive of these gun control bills can kiss my ass.
centrarchidae
03-14-2013, 20:06
Well did you know it's still illegal (punishment is still hanging) for cutting a barbed wire fence that you don't own?
Please tell me you have a source for that.
buckshotbarlow
03-14-2013, 20:16
i'm going to create a trust, put all my crap in there, kids wife, nephews mom and dad...hopefully that should cover it, along with my 3 stamps...
I have a hard time believing this will become an issue unless you all of a sudden start getting the mag police to check all over the place and then they have to have burden or proof. it isn't like the mags are registered like a car. hell, they don't even check a trailer registration (at least mine never has been).
You know, something I was just pondering. As most of us have acknowledged, HB 1224 is going to be next to impossible to enforce. Now, that being said here's where I think we could see it come into play. Say a CCW holder gets mixed up in a shooting (legitimate or otherwise). The DA sees he is using a magazine over 15 rounds in his carry piece. They could easily ammend the charge and have to prove he purchased the magazines prior to 7/1/2013. It's just one more piece of legislation to use against us in the event they hook us for something else (I call it a "stacker" charge). Other than the odd possibility of local LE checking magazines at the range, I don't see this legislation being very enforceable at all. My [2cents]
newracer
03-14-2013, 22:46
I am not worried about this law for me, I have more magazines that I can use in my lifetime. I worry for my kids and there kids. I want our future generations to be free.
rockhound
03-14-2013, 23:32
the owner of the magazine has to be in possession of the magazine at all times.
you cannot take you kids to the range and let them fire your weapon, once this passes, you and the other party will both be guilty
you cannot take your buddy, new to the sport, to the range and let him try your ar with a 30 round magazine in, once this passes
if your wife grabs your gun and shoots an intruder with it while your magazine is in the gun that would be illegal, once this passes.
you cannot leave them to your heirs
my kids are not old enough to give them to them now, so i am the only one who will be able to legally use them in my household
i am going to get a few "legal mags" to use on a daily gun range basis, and put some of those nasty hi cap magazines away for when the zombies show up
hopefully we can vote the fu..... out of office get back to a normal day in this state at which time i can use my standard mags again
just a thought, magpul will be making a colorado legal magazine at some point i assume, anyone seen an eta?
the owner of the magazine has to be in possession of the magazine at all times.
you cannot take you kids to the range and let them fire your weapon, once this passes, you and the other party will both be guilty
you cannot take your buddy, new to the sport, to the range and let him try your ar with a 30 round magazine in, once this passes
if your wife grabs your gun and shoots an intruder with it while your magazine is in the gun that would be illegal, once this passes.
you cannot leave them to your heirs
my kids are not old enough to give them to them now, so i am the only one who will be able to legally use them in my household
i am going to get a few "legal mags" to use on a daily gun range basis, and put some of those nasty hi cap magazines away for when the zombies show up
hopefully we can vote the fu..... out of office get back to a normal day in this state at which time i can use my standard mags again
just a thought, magpul will be making a colorado legal magazine at some point i assume, anyone seen an eta?
For certain this bill sucks ass. Not sure about Magpul making a 15-round AR magazine for us here. I would be truly surprised if they do, considering they are making a hard line in the sand by telling the state to go "F" themselves by leaving and taking all that fat tax money with them. The only thing we can do now is vote the morons out of office and overturn the bill. This is going to be a long uphill battle for us all. We must stay the course and fight the good fight. If we don't, our children will have to work 10x harder when it comes their turn.
DingleBerns
03-15-2013, 01:19
I know I will not be going into people's houses and taking their guns or checking magazine dates....that's a suicide mission.
Byte Stryke
03-15-2013, 07:38
as far as how it will be enforced...
you get pulled over, stopped at a range, Contacted somehow... whatever.
They "detain" you... you can beat the time, you cant beat the ride.
You go "downtown" answer some questions in a small room with bad air and no interior decorator
They then decide "OK whatever, he came into possession before the law went into effect."
you arent charged and you are released.
you go to the property room and retrieve your weapon
SANS MAG as it is now illegal to transfer it to you.
who wants to be this wont happen at least a few dozen times?
Rucker61
03-15-2013, 09:33
the owner of the magazine has to be in possession of the magazine at all times.
you cannot take you kids to the range and let them fire your weapon, once this passes, you and the other party will both be guilty
Even more absurd: my wife and I can be shooting side by side, me with a 10/22 with my 25 round magazine, and her with a 10/22 with her 25 round magazine, each of us entrusted by the state with those weapon/magazine combinations. However, if we switch identical weapons with the magazines still in them, instantly we're an immediate danger to public health and safety and have committed a Class 1 Felony.
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