Political Question

[strm_trpr]

I am a Democrat.....Don't attack me, please, hear me out.

I am pro gun, pro choice, pro freedom, believe gays should marry, believe that taxation should be proporuntate to wealth, and believe the war on drugs is a lost cause.

But The Democratic party is attacking my firearms rights which I hold above many others.

Should I change my affiliation or fight from inside?

[Great-Kazoo]

I am a Democrat.....Don't attack me, please, hear me out.

I am pro gun, pro choice, pro freedom, believe gays should marry, believe that taxation should be proporuntate to wealth, and believe the war on drugs is a lost cause.

But The Democratic party is attacking my firearms rights which I hold above many others.

Should I change my affiliation or fight from inside?


1) you should have never Come Out on a Gun Board

2)0 you should have never voted for any D

3) you and others like you pro gun (who cares) still enabled the D's to do what they are doing now

4) apology considered, but not accepted from me anyway.

5) in reviewing your OP i rescind #4 as you have not offered an apology. not even a hint of contrition. Yes change your affiliation, to LOOSER

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

Unfortunately you have to choose the most important issue and go with the side that supports it. Bipartisan is a thing of the past.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

1) you should have never Come Out on a Gun Board

2)0 you should have never voted for any D

3) you and others like you pro gun (who cares) still enabled the D's to do what they are doing now

4) apology considered, but not accepted from me anyway.

5) in reviewing your OP i rescind #4 as you have not offered an apology. not even a hint of contrition. Yes change your affiliation, to LOOSER

Can I hug you next time I see you?

[JMBD2112]

huge fail

[Great-Kazoo]

Can I hug you next time I see you?

Sure. You do realize i was being "nice" to the OP. I'm still debating if i should nynco him.

[strm_trpr]

Hey guys just because I said I am a democrat does not mean that I always vote that way. There are pro gun Democrats just like there are anti gun republicans. How do I enable the democrats to do anything? And I am not appologizing for my political association.

[newracer]

Unfortunately you have to choose the most important issue and go with the side that supports it. Bipartisan is a thing of the past.

This

[strm_trpr]

huge fail

How so?

[strm_trpr]

Unfortunately you have to choose the most important issue and go with the side that supports it. Bipartisan is a thing of the past.

Yeah that is what I am thinking.

[strm_trpr]

I just see this as being the most polarizing event in my life. I am only 28 so I only have 10 years of voting and participating under my belt. I have always voted issues not parties.

[TAR31]

How the hell can you "fight from inside"? Any democrap you vote for is gonna do the same shit the libtards in office are doing right now.

[strm_trpr]

How the hell can you "fight from inside"? Any democrap you vote for is gonna do the same shit the libtards in office are doing right now.

I don't know, maybe there is a way, maybe I can always vote in primarys for democrats most likely to loose to republicans, who knows, gotta be creative. The world is not black and white people.

[Great-Kazoo]

Hey guys just because I said I am a democrat does not mean that I always vote that way. There are pro gun Democrats just like there are anti gun republicans. How do I enable the democrats to do anything? And I am not appologizing for my political association.

Because you are one. because you didn't offer an apology for what you kind are doing, or even acknowledged what i said. You way of thinking In general has fucked this country up beyond repair.
ENTITLEMENT
POLITICAL CORRECTNESS
GUN BANS / CONFISCATION / REGISTRATION
BARAK OBAMA
RHAM EMMANUAL
98% OF MEDIA OUTLETS
KEITH OLBERMANN
AL GORE
JESSE JACKSON
CALIFORNIA
COLORADO
DEM CONTROLLED CO LEGISLATURE

YOU WANT MORE. YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM NOT THE SOLUTION.

THE words i highlighted speak for them self and YOU!

[ChunkyMonkey]

You cannot believe in the right of freedom and right to bear arm as long as you are self declared democrat.

Democrats believe in large govt;
believe that the big gov and ONLY the gov who must protect them;
believe the successful or the wealthy as you mentioned have no right to his/her hard earned freedom while the lazy gets his/her unearned share;
believe that it is unjustice to require the same welfare recipient to pass a drug test;
believe that a one cell organism on a martian rock is LIFE, yet a few weeks old baby is nothing but a bunch of cells;
believe that while it is ok kill that baby, it is not ok to sentence murderers to death;
and believe in social justice, but don't any of you worry about your own personal responsibility.

Yeah, you got to be mentally challenged to be a democrat. The good news is, some common sense and life experience can cure this. That's why in life you WILL meet few democrat turned republicans, but hardly ever the other way around.


Finally, I recommend mod to close this thread... this one will not end well.

[Great-Kazoo]

I just see this as being the most polarizing event in my life. I am only 28 so I only have 10 years of voting and participating under my belt. I have always voted issues not parties.

Why not libertarian. DEMOCRAT? FUCK ME.

BTW" that saying about a democrat is a republican who hasn't been mugged yet
GUESS WHAT YOUR GUN GRABBING HOMIES JUST MUGGED , RAPED AND LEFT YOU FOR DEAD.

[strm_trpr]

That is what I am thinking of.

I have been researching the Libertarian party since last election because, my views are fairly close. But I am just using this as a sounding board no need to be hostile guys.

[JMBD2112]

seems to me Jim and monkey have this handled

[TAR31]

That is what I am thinking of.

I have been researching the Libertarian party since last election because, my views are fairly close. But I am just using this as a sounding board no need to be hostile guys.

You ARE the enemy, that is why some are being hostile.

[Great-Kazoo]

That is what I am thinking of.

I have been researching the Libertarian party since last election because, my views are fairly close. But I am just using this as a sounding board no need to be hostile guys.

HOSTILE? You ain't seen hostile.
28 you haven't seen much have you, except the stars in your eyes of the Greater Good COMRADE.

[Big E3]

I'm pro gun, I'm pro choice, I'm pro freedom, I don't care who anybody is atracted to or sleeps with, I think every able bodied person should work and pay taxes, Amendment 64 passed so the war on drugs is lost. And I have voted Republican for 39 years. What's your point, why would you feel a need to vote Democrat.

[strm_trpr]

Well nice to see that an cannot have a constructive discussion on here. Thanks guys for doing nothing but attacking me. Feeling really good right now, I supose you think I should just blindly follow one party or another without disagreeing with one part or another of each.

[strm_trpr]

I never said I vote Democrat, I just said I am a registered Democrat.

[patrick0685]

in before the lock...oh yea there have been a few D on the site they didnt last long so good luck

[strm_trpr]

I have lasted since 2011, so, I am in for the long haul.

[patrick0685]

you just stated your affiliation now, personally i think that both major parties can suck a huge dick, but like other have said you have to pick your position and vote that way

[davsel]

Well nice to see that an cannot have a constructive discussion on here. Thanks guys for doing nothing but attacking me. Feeling really good right now, I supose you think I should just blindly follow one party or another without disagreeing with one part or another of each.

http://www.beltfedshooters.com/forum/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

[ChunkyMonkey]

Actually, there are many Dems on the site. Some I get along just fine, others not so much. You put your balls on the table, and Jim smacked them ping pong twins with a 40 pound cast iron frying pan. You didn't expect that????

[strm_trpr]

One last post from me before I stop posting on this thread is, I have began to realize after being under republicans and Democrats is IT does not matter if I am being strangled by the right hand or the left hand. I just can't breathe anymore these days.

[Great-Kazoo]

I never said I vote Democrat, I just said I am a registered Democrat.

Once again DENIAL, LIBERAL PLAYBOOK 100% HMMMMMMM let me see oh yeah here it is. I highlighted your NEVER voted D yet espouse their Take from those who have and REDISTRIBUTE IT. SON IF YOU WALK LIKE A DUCK AND QUACK LIKE A DUCK. I don't care How PRO GUN you are YOU'RE A DEMOCRAT, Taxing proportionate to wealth. That shit went from the top $250K wage earners down to what, $150K now??



I am pro gun, pro choice, pro freedom, believe gays should marry, believe that taxation should be proporuntate to wealth, and believe the war on drugs is a lost cause.

But The Democratic party is attacking my firearms rights which I hold above many others.

Should I change my affiliation or fight from inside?

[XC700116]

Hey guys just because I said I am a democrat does not mean that I always vote that way. There are pro gun Democrats just like there are anti gun republicans. How do I enable the democrats to do anything? And I am not appologizing for my political association.

Here's your litmus test, Did you vote for any of the Democrats currently in the CO Assembly (house or senate)? How did that person vote on the aforementioned bills? Did you vote for Governor Hickenlooper? How do you think he's going to side on this? If the answer to those questions doesn't solidify how you enabled them, unless the answer to questions 1 AND 3 are NO, then you're completely lost, if you voted for any of them, YOU ENABLED THEM.


I just see this as being the most polarizing event in my life. I am only 28 so I only have 10 years of voting and participating under my belt. I have always voted issues not parties.

Welcome to big boy rules, glad you're waking up, but don't expect anyone here to hold your hand, because it's big boy rules, there's cause and effect and you need to use Logic and Reason to see that, not emotion and "belief". Look at action not words, learn what it really means to be an American and not a socialist, LEARN HISTORY.

You want to pick and choose, it doesn't work like that. You either have Liberty or you have tyranny. Your belief in "proportionate taxation" is a socialist belief, guess what goes with that?? The rest of the items you list, look pretty Libertarian to me, but your class envy and wanting the rich to pay your fair share so you don't have to is BS and Socialist, PERIOD. Here's a thought, everybody pays their fair share, ie flat tax.

[babirl]

I never said I vote Democrat, I just said I am a registered Democrat.

Wow... If it ain't clear to you yet, well "God Bless Your Lil' Heart" young man (and no, that's not some statement of sympathy/tolerance).

[fail]

[Big E3]

There are only two teams in this game if you want to play pick one, or sit on the bench but don't complain about the outcome. No one said this was the best posible political system it is just the best one that currently exists.

[Great-Kazoo]

There are only two teams in this game if you want to play pick one, or sit on the bench but don't complain about the outcome. No one said this was the best posible political system it is just the best one that currently exists.

He's gone home to redistribute the wealth. Besides the poll is closed how went the vote, anyone?

[KestrelBike]

Hey guys just because I said I am a democrat does not mean that I always vote that way. There are pro gun Democrats just like there are anti gun republicans. How do I enable the democrats to do anything? And I am not appologizing for my political association.

Apologize then for the repugnant idea that what a man earns from greater effort, savvy, will and ability should be distributed to those not willing to work as hard.

[Fmedges]

I'm going to register as a dem just to mind fuck 'em. PsyOps

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

I might add this might be the third worst time in the last 5 years to mention this...

[Great-Kazoo]

Apologize then for the repugnant idea that what a man earns from greater effort, savvy, will and ability should be distributed to those not willing to work as hard.

He cannot bring himself to do what goes against his and "their" nature. I called him on it and instead of reputing the FACT. He cries, You're meanies, Hostile etc. Lib playbook cover to cover. Turn the facts when pointed out into attacks and name calling to their opponents. He did leave out RACIST. maybe he's over at DU asking what he should do next.
As my wife says. He's a democrat they can't think for them self, them have to be told what to do. He did ask us what he should do, didn't he?

[motohooligan]

I was just explaining to my 17 year old niece that her duty as an American to know how to use a firearm, and that the Second Amendment is the only keeping the others. I think she was fairly receptive, and agreed to let me take her shooting.

[Great-Kazoo]

I was just explaining to my 17 year old niece that her duty as an American to know how to use a firearm, and that the Second Amendment is the only keeping the others. I think she was fairly receptive, and agreed to let me take her shooting.

She's a democrat too?[LOL]

[DavieD55]

One last post from me before I stop posting on this thread is, I have began to realize after being under republicans and Democrats is IT does not matter if I am being strangled by the right hand or the left hand. I just can't breathe anymore these days.

Yep. People need to realize the D.C. Republicans and Democrats are the XST with the exception of a handful on either side.

[Great-Kazoo]

Yep. People need to realize the D.C. Republicans and Democrats are the XST with the exception of a handful on either side.

True. However don't post you're a democrat, deny you vote that way, then advocate Redistribution of Wealth, all in one sentence.

[motohooligan]

She's a democrat too?[LOL]
No, she said she didn't like the liberals. Her parents are very conservative. I think it rubbed off on her. She just has never shot a gun before. It doesn't hurt to hear things from someone other than your parents when you're a teenager.

[bowhunter]

Its not just guns dumb ass. Obamalama care, guns, budget (or lack their of), foreign policy, etc etc etc.

If i bust my ass at a job i hate I should be taxed more for trying to get ahead? I should have to pay for more peoples healthcare so they can work a job they like that doesn't offer it instead of a job they don't like that does? Did you really think enough of the gay/lesbian democrat politicians would vote pro-gun to make a difference? Wow giving all the illegals money and cheap college to stay is awesome huh? And oh yea pro gay woopdy fucking pickle puffing deal, just awesome huh? So my tax dollars will pay for impregnation of fur traders under obama care care, awesome. And college sluts can fuck who ever they want while we pay for their condoms, awesome. Thank you for everything.

[Great-Kazoo]

No, she said she didn't like the liberals. Her parents are very conservative. I think it rubbed off on her. She just has never shot a gun before. It doesn't hurt to hear things from someone other than your parents when you're a teenager.

AMEN to that.

[motohooligan]

Its not just guns dumb ass. Obamalama care, guns, budget (or lack their of), foreign policy, etc etc etc.

If i bust my ass at a job i hate I should be taxed more for trying to get ahead? I should have to pay for more peoples healthcare so they can work a job they like that doesn't offer it instead of a job they don't like that does? Did you really think enough of the gay/lesbian democrat politicians would vote pro-gun to make a difference? Wow giving all the illegals money and cheap college to stay is awesome huh? And oh yea pro gay woopdy fucking pickle puffing deal, just awesome huh? So my tax dollars will pay for impregnation of fur traders under obama care care, awesome. And college sluts can fuck who ever they want while we pay for their condoms, awesome. Thank you for everything.

Yup... the military just cut tuition assistance. So now when you fight for your country, the illegals get cheaper college and you pay full price. That's super fair, right?

[jhood001]

It takes years of adult experience to fully understand our two main political parties. Neither one is something I want to cuddle up with at night, but when I have to choose the most satisfying lay, I know which way I go.

This fellow comes here asking for guidance in his beliefs. At that point, two paths were available for replies:

1. Educate him on the folly of his ways.

2. Kick the shit out of him because you're pissed off and you want blood.

Are some of you more interested in making yourselves feel better or are you more interested in changing the hearts and minds of people who may or may not have had some wool pulled over their eyes?

I am more interested in acquiring allies right now than I am interested in getting my angry nut off because I feel like a fucking loser over recent legislation... and I DO feel like a loser right now.

OP - Your beliefs and issues are your own. It is a crazy and complicated world and those at the top of both of our political parties have very vested interests in regards to our legislation. What you have to ask yourself, at the end of the day, is which efforts currently underway have the largest chance of rendering all of your rights and beliefs irrelevant? If someone wants to take your ability to live a free, happy, and successful life away, how will you respond when it comes down to the tilting point? If you are not armed, you won't even have the chance to answer that question.

Think about that.

[Byte Stryke]

I prefer the "free thinking Conservative" Party

Because debating D vs R is like arguing which side of the turd tastes better

[BPTactical]

The one thing that was resounding to me in the OP's posts: "I"
That is why we are in the mess we are in, people are only concerned with what "I" want.
Thank God 70 years ago people were not nearly as concerned with "I" so much and had kept the vision of something greater than themselves alive.
People have lost the sense that the welfare of the country(and state) is greater than the individuals wishes.
I do not fault the OP, when we are young we are all idealistic. We want to see the world as our ideal.
You get along in life a little more and you discover that the ideals are very often not realistic and become more conservative in your views.
Yes, both parties are screwed but the Democratic parties ideals are now formed around a socialistic model that is a direct conflict with a free republic. Our society now refuses to grow up.
Jim, while blunt is spot on as is Chunky.
Great post Jhood.

To the OP, its ok to make a mistake. Its how you recover from it that counts.

[sroz]

Independent. Follow no party, only your own principles and what you believe is best for the country as a whole.

[Troublco]

You cannot believe in the right of freedom and right to bear arm as long as you are self declared democrat.

Democrats believe in large govt;
believe that the big gov and ONLY the gov who must protect them;
believe the successful or the wealthy as you mentioned have no right to his/her hard earned freedom while the lazy gets his/her unearned share;
believe that it is unjustice to require the same welfare recipient to pass a drug test;
believe that a one cell organism on a martian rock is LIFE, yet a few weeks old baby is nothing but a bunch of cells;
believe that while it is ok kill that baby, it is not ok to sentence murderers to death;
and believe in social justice, but don't any of you worry about your own personal responsibility.


Well said.


I'm pro gun, I'm pro choice, I'm pro freedom, I don't care who anybody is atracted to or sleeps with, I think every able bodied person should work and pay taxes, Amendment 64 passed so the war on drugs is lost. And I have voted Republican for 39 years.


Well nice to see that an cannot have a constructive discussion on here. Thanks guys for doing nothing but attacking me. Feeling really good right now, I supose you think I should just blindly follow one party or another without disagreeing with one part or another of each.


I never said I vote Democrat, I just said I am a registered Democrat.

By being a registered Democrat, you are identifying yourself as someone who supports their agenda. I believe if you are as against what they're doing as you say, you'd be better switching to Libertarian.

Thing is, when you declare yourself as a Democrat you are declaring yourself as someone who thinks and believes more like they do. As has been mentioned, the Democrats support what amounts to socialism, and that is contrary to everything this country was ever supposed to be. If you declare yourself as a Democrat you are saying, in effect, that you support their positions. So you're saying you support their agenda.


The one thing that was resounding to me in the OP's posts: "I"
That is why we are in the mess we are in, people are only concerned with what "I" want.
Thank God 70 years ago people were not nearly as concerned with "I" so much and had kept the vision of something greater than themselves alive.
People have lost the sense that the welfare of the country(and state) is greater than the individuals wishes.
I do not fault the OP, when we are young we are all idealistic. We want to see the world as our ideal.
You get along in life a little more and you discover that the ideals are very often not realistic and become more conservative in your views.
Yes, both parties are screwed but the Democratic parties ideals are now formed around a socialistic model that is a direct conflict with a free republic. Our society now refuses to grow up.
Jim, while blunt is spot on as is Chunky.
Great post Jhood.

To the OP, its ok to make a mistake. Its how you recover from it that counts.

Said better than I could, although I have been conservative from before I really knew what it was. At 15 I was once described as "slightly to the right of Attila the Hun", and I took it (still do) as a compliment. In reality, I am right about where BigE3 is; I don't care about sexual orientation as long as they aren't demanding that I tell them I agree. What happened to everyone doing their thing? Why is it that WE have to submit to THEM? Why the hell can't they just go on about their business like everyone else? I find it odd that militant gays, militant fems, the abortion crowd (who, as it was mentioned, believe that they can kill babies and it's OK but scream about animals being put down in shelters - hypocrites!), and so on are all on the left side of the spectrum. What I mean by that is, "birds of a feather flock together". And you're identifying yourself as one of them. I know you said you vote your conscience, but what you declare yourself as also counts.

[HBARleatherneck]

did this guy miss Bailey Guns thread earlier in the week thanking him? that thread should have told him to stay silent.

[Gman]

The world is not black and white people.
Actually, it's a lot less grey than you think. The world is very much live/die, predator/prey, etc. It's people that make it grey to make them feel better about themselves or their choices in life.

Politicians desire power and that usually means taking power from the people. The people that have similar values to me want to be left alone and have no desire to become politicians.

Being identified as a Republican in CO is pretty much a no-win as well. The R candidate is usually chosen in open primaries in Eastern states before we ever get the opportunity.

Voting 3rd party pretty much guarantees a D win.

We get to live through the rot of this once great nation.

[cjmore]

Well said.







By being a registered Democrat, you are identifying yourself as someone who supports their agenda. I believe if you are as against what they're doing as you say, you'd be better switching to Libertarian.

Thing is, when you declare yourself as a Democrat you are declaring yourself as someone who thinks and believes more like they do. As has been mentioned, the Democrats support what amounts to socialism, and that is contrary to everything this country was ever supposed to be. If you declare yourself as a Democrat you are saying, in effect, that you support their positions. So you're saying you support their agenda.



Said better than I could, although I have been conservative from before I really knew what it was. At 15 I was once described as "slightly to the right of Attila the Hun", and I took it (still do) as a compliment. In reality, I am right about where BigE3 is; I don't care about sexual orientation as long as they aren't demanding that I tell them I agree. What happened to everyone doing their thing? Why is it that WE have to submit to THEM? Why the hell can't they just go on about their business like everyone else? I find it odd that militant gays, militant fems, the abortion crowd (who, as it was mentioned, believe that they can kill babies and it's OK but scream about animals being put down in shelters - hypocrites!), and so on are all on the left side of the spectrum. What I mean by that is, "birds of a feather flock together". And you're identifying yourself as one of them. I know you said you vote your conscience, but what you declare yourself as also counts.

^^^^^^^FTW

OP if you're serious register independent. It's always good to reevaluate political affiliation

[Great-Kazoo]

did this guy miss Bailey Guns thread earlier in the week thanking him? that thread should have told him to stay silent.

It's all part of the "White Guilt" mentality. IF they express an interest to "atone" for their mistakes, They "HOPE" by wanting to "CHANGE" their ideals "we" will welcome them with open arms. However when i read how mean "we are" and how the wealthy should pay more" the only thing i see is a predator wearing a disguise hoping no one notices them in the hen house.

Mean = Buzz Word
constructive discussion = Sensible & reasonable Where have we heard this before?

Thanks guys for doing nothing but attacking me = Actually it was Me (or should i say I) who took issue with you full on bullshit statement[s] HOWEVER YOU choose to LUMP ALL OF US into one pile vs addressing MY replies to YOU.
INSTEAD YOU attacked and or criticized EVERYONE . Why not debate and or disagree what I or others said regarding you Coming OUT?
There are a few board members who are WILLING to give YOU the benefit of a doubt, even embrace your "Belief's" with the knowledge you are young and made some mistakes in your early years.

ME i'll burn the town down HOPING I eliminated the disease. BP was being kind saying i am BLUNT.
At this point in our lives we (family) has seen decades of YOUR touchy, feeley entitlement, tax spend representatives at work.
I as I said before there is little difference between the 2 parties. HOWEVER I believe in reading and studying a proposed piece of legislation prior to informing my rep's how I (We The PEOPLE) would like them to vote.
I don't say pass the law then read it later.

[n8tive97]

seems to me Jim and monkey have this handled

Yup, I will just go get some popcorn...

[osok-308]

To be honest, I hate the whole two party system and believe we need to sort other things out, but i vote more based on gun rights than any other issue. So, I vote republican, because 9.9999 times out 10, they're the ones defending this freedom.

[Rucker61]

I might add this might be the third worst time in the last 5 years to mention this...

I disagree. This is the first worst time.

[Bailey Guns]

did this guy miss Bailey Guns thread earlier in the week thanking him? that thread should have told him to stay silent.

I want it noted and made part of my permanent record how much restraint I've exercised by not responding to the OP.

[waxthis]

I want it noted and made part of my permanent record how much restraint I've exercised by not responding to the OP.

Noted.

[strm_trpr]

It takes years of adult experience to fully understand our two main political parties. Neither one is something I want to cuddle up with at night, but when I have to choose the most satisfying lay, I know which way I go.

This fellow comes here asking for guidance in his beliefs. At that point, two paths were available for replies:

1. Educate him on the folly of his ways.

2. Kick the shit out of him because you're pissed off and you want blood.

Are some of you more interested in making yourselves feel better or are you more interested in changing the hearts and minds of people who may or may not have had some wool pulled over their eyes?

I am more interested in acquiring allies right now than I am interested in getting my angry nut off because I feel like a fucking loser over recent legislation... and I DO feel like a loser right now.

OP - Your beliefs and issues are your own. It is a crazy and complicated world and those at the top of both of our political parties have very vested interests in regards to our legislation. What you have to ask yourself, at the end of the day, is which efforts currently underway have the largest chance of rendering all of your rights and beliefs irrelevant? If someone wants to take your ability to live a free, happy, and successful life away, how will you respond when it comes down to the tilting point? If you are not armed, you won't even have the chance to answer that question.

Think about that.


Thanks Jhood001,

I am a person who is re evaluating a lot in my life right now and I apprecaite your thoughtful post. It is much easier to attack me than it is to provide advise on moving forward in life.

Jim,

I don't fault you for being blunt, it just hit me hard last night as it was late and I had a long day, I see what you are saying, however, I am not some crazy libtard like you are thinking, Just because I said proportional taxation does not mean realocation of wealth, What i am talking about is having a flat scheduled percentage of income being paid to the government for Education, Defense and organizations such as NASA. Government has no role to be taken in helath care, moral decisions, or personal life decisions one way or the other.

I realized I opened my self to this by posting this, political affiliation is always a hot button topic especially right now right here, however, it is the internet, so, its only words and I just wanted to get some input on a personal decision.

Thanks to all

[wreave]

I am a Democrat.....Don't attack me, please, hear me out.

I am pro gun, pro choice, pro freedom, believe gays should marry, believe that taxation should be proporuntate to wealth, and believe the war on drugs is a lost cause.

But The Democratic party is attacking my firearms rights which I hold above many others.

Should I change my affiliation or fight from inside?

I'm with you on all but pro choice (depending on what you might by taxation "in proportion to wealth" as it is currently HIGHLY disproportionate), though I've always voted R. I have political views that would alienate most members of either party. It pains me the hate you're getting in response to this question.

As an alternate example, my brother has always voted D. He supports some things that Rs typically support, like gun ownership, but is more of a D through and through. However, after this fiasco he is changing. He says he will never vote for a D again. We'll see - "never" is a long time - but he sees the stupidity on that side of the aisle and is ashamed he voted for them.

Changing these guys from the inside is hard. Changing them by voting them out is easier. Look at Angela Giron in Pueblo. She had every reason to vote against the mag capacity bill and be the 18th vote. Her district was overwhelmingly against it. Yet she voted in favor because of the D next to her name. I think both she and Morse are on the chopping block next election (Morse would not even have won this year without the Libertarian vote split, but he'll probably end up with some party job in thanks for his contribution).

[Bailey Guns]

...but I'm running out of restraint. Rather than attack you, let me suggest you start by reading this:


Rosen: Party trumps person in real politics

By Mike Rosen

As many times as I've explained how party trumps person in the real world of politics, some people misunderstand my meaning. It doesn't mean party trumps principle, although broad-based political coalitions may compromise conflicting principles. And it doesn't mean that individuals can't make a difference in politics and public policy. But like it or not, we have a two-party system, and that's not going to change anytime soon.

Minor parties and their candidates can be spoilers, but rarely do they win elections. Either Republicans or Democrats will be the majority party in legislative bodies, and with that majority status goes control of all the committees and subcommittees, the locus of power.

Let's say Republican voters helped elect a conservative Democrat to Congress over a moderate Republican, and that conservative Democrat gave his party a 218-217 majority in the U.S. House. Misguided Republicans who voted for this conservative Democrat would get the unintended consequence of Nancy Pelosi presiding as speaker, a majority of liberal Democrats running the show, the GOP relegated to minority status and its legislative agenda stymied.

In Europe's multi-party parliamentary democracies, when no single party wins a majority of seats in parliament, a governing coalition is patched together after the election to forge a legislative majority. That coalition then elects a head of government, the prime minister. In our constitutional republic, the executive branch is independent of Congress, and the president is elected by the people. But, like the Europeans, we also have coalitions. The difference is that the distinct coalitions of our two major parties are already in place before the election.

The Republican coalition is an alliance of conservatives, middle- and upper-income taxpayers (but not leftist Hollywood millionaires and George Soros), individualists who prefer limited government, those who are pro-market and pro-business, believers in American exceptionalism and a strong national defense, social-issues conservatives and supporters of traditional American values.

The Democratic coalition includes guilt-ridden liberals, collectivists, labor unions, government workers, leftist academics, plaintiffs-lawyers, lower- and middle-income net tax-receivers, identity-politics minorities, feminists, gays, enviros, nannyists, and activists for assorted anti-gun, anti-capitalist, anti-business, anti-military and world-government causes

I say party trumps person because regardless of the individuals who win legislative seats, in the final analysis the agenda of the majority party's coalition will be served. This also applies to the occupant of the White House or the Governor's Mansion, who will accommodate his party's coalition with policies and with appointments of like-minded people to judgeships, key executive branch positions, boards, commissions, etc.

Independents who may variously swing their votes to Democrats and Republicans may idealistically pride themselves on voting for "the person, not the party." But whether they intend it or not, they'll be hitching their wagon to the agenda and interests of one of the two major-party coalitions. If they vote quixotically for minor-party candidates, they'll still ultimately be governed by Democrats or Republicans.

In Colorado's chaotic governor's race this year, party still trumps person. Tom Tancredo may, as a matter of convenience, be running as the nominal candidate of a minor party, but he's still very much a Republican in spirit and agenda. If he or Dan Maes is elected, the GOP coalition will be served.

John Hickenlooper isn't nonpartisan or bipartisan. He's a Democrat by choice. He may have a little wiggle room but, if elected, he'll still be beholden to and bound by the big players in his party's coalition. Don't hold your breath waiting for Hick to defy the teacher unions or government employees.

You can pick the "lesser of evils" between the two major parties and get in the game or indulge your idealism and independence. It's your vote to cast as you wish. But it won't change the reality of the system.

Mike Rosen's radio show airs weekdays from 9 a.m. to noon on 850-KOA.

[strm_trpr]

...but I'm running out of restraint. Rather than attack you, let me suggest you start by reading this:

Thank you Bailey Guns for not attacking me and instead educating me, good artical, this is what I want to see, Can't you guys see that I am a person who is trying to in my opinion make a big decision and you guys can help craft that if you give constructive input. I will say this, Hickelooper is no friend of government employee's unless you are at the top, and Government employees at the top are just politicians. I am a government employee who has never recieved a rase, none of those hired when I were have, and that is part of why I am pissed at the Democratic party, because, they say that I should just be happy to have a job, and they want to throw more money at the criminals.

[losttrail]

I am a Democrat.....Don't attack me, please, hear me out.

I am pro gun, pro choice, pro freedom, believe gays should marry, believe that taxation should be proporuntate to wealth, and believe the war on drugs is a lost cause.

But The Democratic party is attacking my firearms rights which I hold above many others.

Should I change my affiliation or fight from inside?

1. Pro gun - Not a Democtrat stance. Duh!

2. Pro choice - Democrats are pro murder of innocent, unborn children, but let murderers, rapists and pedophiles live and/or go free. Brilliant. As an adoptive parent, I have skin in this game.

3. Believe gays should marry - Marriage by definition, is a religious union and as a Christian I believe God does not condone the gay lifestyle. Civil union is a legal union and if that's what man wants to do, oh well. I don't go out and make trouble for gays but don't have to like it or tolerate it in my home.

4. Believe that taxation should be proportionate to wealth - How is that 'fair' or 'balanced'? Why should people that make more money be penalized more and carry more of the tax burden? A flat tax, where every one has "skin in the game", "pays their fair share", would be much better than the perverted, unjust system we have. Maybe even a national sales tax that generates revenue based upon consumption would be even more fair. Typical Liberal "punish the wealthy" and class warfare.

5. Believe the war on drugs is lost - Can't argue against that. At least the ineffectual way it has been waged that past 50 years. Here's my solution: Park a carrier group off the nearest coast of the offending supplying country. Announce that all foreign aid to that country is immediately cut off (all foreign aid should be stopped anyway). Inform them that they have 30 days to stop all drug trafficing in their country. If they do not stop all drug trafficing in 30 days, our carrier group will stop it and the U.S. will NOT rebuild their country. Drug dealers within the U.S. will be executed publicly within 12 hours of arrest (if caught in the act) or conviction. End of story.

The modern Democrat (not Democratic) party is Marxist. Look at the attacks on not just the 2nd Amendment, but the 1st, 5th, 14th, etc. In California, Christians cannot say a prayer before a sporting event, in school, etc., yet there are high schools that are building foot baths for Muslim students and provided parayer time for Muslim students. Take a guess at which political party is making these decisions.

Marxist-Muslim Obama belongs to which party? He has said that the Constitution is an impediment to what he wants to do.

Democrats are the enemy of America.

[Great-Kazoo]

I'm with you on all but pro choice (depending on what you might by taxation "in proportion to wealth" as it is currently HIGHLY disproportionate), though I've always voted R. I have political views that would alienate most members of either party. It pains me the hate you're getting in response to this question.

As an alternate example, my brother has always voted D. He supports some things that Rs typically support, like gun ownership, but is more of a D through and through. However, after this fiasco he is changing. He says he will never vote for a D again. We'll see - "never" is a long time - but he sees the stupidity on that side of the aisle and is ashamed he voted for them.

Changing these guys from the inside is hard. Changing them by voting them out is easier. Look at Angela Giron in Pueblo. She had every reason to vote against the mag capacity bill and be the 18th vote. Her district was overwhelmingly against it. Yet she voted in favor because of the D next to her name. I think both she and Morse are on the chopping block next election (Morse would not even have won this year without the Libertarian vote split, but he'll probably end up with some party job in thanks for his contribution).

You're another one. HATE is a wide sweeping brush to use. If I Hated the OP i'd pm or em him .
PAINS ME= PC'ness it pains you How about me?

I TAKE ISSUE, which is so much different than HATE. YOU remind me of the Liberal PC crowd who CONDEMNS ANYONE that takes issue with ISLAMIST.
I'M A RACIST because i do not believe a section of ISLAM'S population wants to eradicate anyone who does not believe in ALLAH . IF we speak out against ISLAMIST we are attacked because we do not understand their ideology , or willing to become in touch with them as a people.
The same folks who ATTACK us for (what's that word you used?) HATE, people of different thought are (Yourself included) the same ones who preach TOLERANCE AND DIVERSITY.
YET YOU are unwilling to listen to anyone who takes issue with YOUR belief.

HATE, get real, go hug a like minded flag burning individual and console each other over how mean spirited I / WE are. [facepalm]

[waxthis]

"5. Believe the war on drugs is lost - Can't argue against that. At least the ineffectual way it has been waged that past 50 years. Here's my solution: Park a carrier group off the nearest coast of the offending supplying country. Announce that all foreign aid to that country is immediately cut off (all foreign aid should be stopped anyway). Inform them that they have 30 days to stop all drug trafficing in their country. If they do not stop all drug trafficing in 30 days, our carrier group will stop it and the U.S. will NOT rebuild their country. Drug dealers within the U.S. will be executed publicly within 12 hours of arrest (if caught in the act) or conviction. End of story."

Now that is how shit gets done!!!............[Alrigh]

[Great-Kazoo]

I want it noted and made part of my permanent record how much restraint I've exercised by not responding to the OP.

Not only commend you but applaud your sense of restraint.

When you (US) reply to this SHIT the buzz words fly out of their keyboards like some angst ridden teen.

HATE
PAINS ME
I meant something different that i actually meant.
What's that one NYNCO used oh yeah JERK. AM NOT ARE TOO.
THEIR emotions run rampant when taking issue with anyone who DISAGREES WITH THEIR IDEOLOGY . Polite words to sympathize with other like minded people makes them believe they are superior INTELLECTUALLY to anyone who has an opposing view.

Their way of thinking and beliefs are what have gotten people like my brother killed.
EVERYONE DESERVES ANOTHER CHANCE, AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN.

[nynco]

Their way of thinking and beliefs are what have gotten people like my brother killed.
EVERYONE DESERVES ANOTHER CHANCE, AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN.

Ahhhh so thats your problem. Well I am sorry you lost your brother. No clue why or how. But being a total jerk to 50% of the nation won't bring him back.

[BlasterBob]

Actually, there are many Dems on the site. Some I get along just fine, others not so much. You put your balls on the table, and Jim smacked them ping pong twins with a 40 pound cast iron frying pan. You didn't expect that????

Alright, I know this thread is a VERY serious matter but I just damn near fell out of the chair [ROFL3] when I read the above about Jim smacking the twins with a 40# cast iron frying pan. Now I'll be chuckling the rest of the day thinking about that one........ Ok, now back to those lessons for the young uns.

[muddywings]

TLDR
Honestly a bit surprised i'm in before the lock.
My only addition is this:
The 2A is what protects all other rights. W/O 2A big GOV can wield power over the populace. If you desired representative doesn't believe in 2A then remember, they can change their minds about anything else you believe in down the road once they control you.

[Great-Kazoo]

Ahhhh so thats your problem. Well I am sorry you lost your brother. No clue why or how. But being a total jerk to 50% of the nation won't bring him back.

FUCK YOU.
Your "being a jerk" is tired and played out go back to the hellhole you call liberalism and leave me the fuck alone.

YOUR 50% of a nation is on the worng track and will never be derailed , in fact it's going to get worse than it is now. ANSWER me this. How long before the have not's take everything from the have's and decide to start rioting because "They deserve" everyone else hard earned belongings? 1, 2 5 years?

How much empowerment do we (not you) allow your kind to have? The 2nd amendment is already on the chopping block. Your liberal thinking really doesn't understand the 2nd is only the first step. How long do you support and allow the (to me) destruction of America.

WHEN THEY CAME FOR ME IT WAS TO LATE.

[brobar]

I didn't read any of the responses so I'm not sure what kind of advice you received. If I had to bet... I would say you probably received a lot of "this is all your fault" type responses. Just ignore them. People in the Republican Party are just mad at themselves because they didn't get the vote out during the last election and stayed home on their bums. What do people do when they are mad at themselves? They usually blame someone else!

I'm an independent and believe we should fight for ALL rights... though I also hold the 2nd above all others. I've toyed around with changing party affiliation to Republican since that is the way I've voted 3 out of the last 4 elections. While I lean left on a few issues and right on a few more issues... I would say I align myself more with the Libertarian party than any others. I hate pinning a label on myself though because I've seen too many people vote based on that label instead of what they truly believe.

Only you can decide what is most important and best for you... same comes to any political affiliations as well. Good luck in your decision(s).


I am a Democrat.....Don't attack me, please, hear me out.

I am pro gun, pro choice, pro freedom, believe gays should marry, believe that taxation should be proporuntate to wealth, and believe the war on drugs is a lost cause.

But The Democratic party is attacking my firearms rights which I hold above many others.

Should I change my affiliation or fight from inside?

[losttrail]

FUCK YOU.
Your "being a jerk" is tired and played out go back to the hellhole you call liberalism and leave me the fuck alone.

YOUR 50% of a nation is on the worng track and will never be derailed , in fact it's going to get worse than it is now. ANSWER me this. How long before the have not's take everything from the have's and decide to start rioting because "They deserve" everyone else hard earned belongings? 1, 2 5 years?

Already started with the OWS movement. It will continue & grow as more and more people have to depend on government for subsistance. This is Marxist-Muslim Obama's plan. Rack up enormous debt, devalue the dollar so that it is no longer the world standard currency, demonize business and regulate/tax them out of business. Provide a model that capitalism has failed.

[DavieD55]

FUCK YOU.
Your "being a jerk" is tired and played out go back to the hellhole you call liberalism and leave me the fuck alone.

YOUR 50% of a nation is on the worng track and will never be derailed , in fact it's going to get worse than it is now. ANSWER me this. How long before the have not's take everything from the have's and decide to start rioting because "They deserve" everyone else hard earned belongings? 1, 2 5 years?

How much empowerment do we (not you) allow your kind to have? The 2nd amendment is already on the chopping block. Your liberal thinking really doesn't understand the 2nd is only the first step. How long do you support and allow the (to me) destruction of America.

WHEN THEY CAME FOR ME IT WAS TO LATE.
+1 [Beer]

[nynco]

Its Obamas plan to rack up debt.... Geeee I guess I missed the fact that the GOP racked up more. I am not defending the Dems. But thinking either party is the answer in this two party dictatorship is laughable. Bush more than doubled the national debt of ALL the previous presidential debts combined and you want to bitch about Obamas spending. Or Reagan TRIPLING the national debt....

Come on people

[Great-Kazoo]

I didn't read any of the responses so I'm not sure what kind of advice you received. If I had to bet... I would say you probably received a lot of "this is all your fault" type responses. Just ignore them. People in the Republican Party are just mad at themselves because they didn't get the vote out during the last election and stayed home on their bums. What do people do when they are mad at themselves? They usually blame someone else!

I'm an independent and believe we should fight for ALL rights... though I also hold the 2nd above all others. I've toyed around with changing party affiliation to Republican since that is the way I've voted 3 out of the last 4 elections. While I lean left on a few issues and right on a few more issues... I would say I align myself more with the Libertarian party than any others. I hate pinning a label on myself though because I've seen too many people vote based on that label instead of what they truly believe.

Only you can decide what is most important and best for you... same comes to any political affiliations as well. Good luck in your decision(s).


ANOTHER LIBERAL MINDSET

I DIDN'T READ ???[facepalm]
BUT you're sure as hell more than willing to VOICE you OPINION. FUCK ME. This shit is out of control. I DIDN'T , BUT...................... You sound like the fuktards who not only proposed these illegal laws . But march lock step with their way of thinking.

[Great-Kazoo]

Its Obamas plan to rack up debt.... Geeee I guess I missed the fact that the GOP racked up more. I am not defending the Dems. But thinking either party is the answer in this two party dictatorship is laughable. Bush more than doubled the national debt of ALL the previous presidential debts combined and you want to bitch about Obamas spending. Or Reagan TRIPLING the national debt....

Come on people

Of course you're not. The germans & poles never knew there were concentration camps across the train tracks either

[nynco]

Of course you're not. The germans & poles never knew there were concentration camps across the train tracks either

Jim you are as worthless as tits on bull sometimes. Good job ignoring everything else in there when it suited your needs. Sadly predictable.

[spqrzilla]

Its Obamas plan to rack up debt.... Geeee I guess I missed the fact that the GOP racked up more. I am not defending the Dems. But thinking either party is the answer in this two party dictatorship is laughable. Bush more than doubled the national debt of ALL the previous presidential debts combined and you want to bitch about Obamas spending. Or Reagan TRIPLING the national debt....

Come on peopleObama has already racked up more debt that Bush, in half the time. By the end of the Obama term, he'll have doubled the debt himself. You remain utterly ignorant of the size of the Obama deficits, nynco. And ignorant of the fact that no one is buying that debt - its being funded by the Federal Reserve printing presses. The Federal Reserve is expected to buy 90% of FY2014 treasuries with funny money.

[sniper7]

Its Obamas plan to rack up debt.... Geeee I guess I missed the fact that the GOP racked up more. I am not defending the Dems. But thinking either party is the answer in this two party dictatorship is laughable. Bush more than doubled the national debt of ALL the previous presidential debts combined and you want to bitch about Obamas spending. Or Reagan TRIPLING the national debt....

Come on people

they also didn't create a health care system that will cause prices to explode and force many middle class americans to go without it or be forced into a terrible system....
It is just one more bullshit program like social security, medicare, medicaid, food stamps, section 8 etc. If all of these went away and people actually took the personal responsibility upon themselves to save for the future instead of blowing money on bullshit now we wouldn't have to worry about these programs, we would get more money in each paycheck, employers could pay more money to their employees, contribute more to their private retirement programs or 401K/IRA etc.

The liberal mindset is a disease. You need help.

[two shoes]

T I am not some crazy libtard like you are thinking, Just because I said proportional taxation does not mean realocation of wealth, What i am talking about is having a flat scheduled percentage of income being paid to the government for Education, Defense and organizations such as NASA. Government has no role to be taken in helath care, moral decisions, or personal life decisions one way or the other.

I am all for a flat tax... Say 10% of your pay, hedge fund... whatever the fuck makes you money. It isn't the same amount, but it is the same burden.

[Aloha_Shooter]

I'll start by saying I disagree with most of the OP's politics but am glad he is realizing how hostile the Democratic Party is to the Second Amendment. I'll also say this: your voice as a fellow Democrat who believes in all the other liberal malarkey is more powerful with the current power brokers in Denver than 100 of us non-Democrats. John Morse and the other Democrats have proven they don't give a rat's arse what any of the rest of us think and they may not even care what YOU think since you're not part of the anti-gun mafia but you at least have a chance of them listening to why not all Democrats are anti-gun.

Leave the Democrat Party for another entity and you will become just another faceless cog to be ground into the mush. No matter what you say, they will view you as a pro-gun Neanderthal which means they will assume you are a racist, elitist homophobe despite all your protestations to the contrary, all available evidence showing THEIR policies are the ones putting minorities into eternal bondage, etc. Stay inside the Democrats but be a loud voice of reason on the Second Amendment.

[ChunkyMonkey]

nynco is a lost cause. He will still vote for the DEMS... he might as well turn in his guns already. You notice what he is good at? He changed the subject, hijacked this thread back to his old game of your guys are worse than my guys hence why my guys have the right to do the wrong thing. Fucking loser

[HBARleatherneck]

Thanks Jhood001,

I am a person who is re evaluating a lot in my life right now and I apprecaite your thoughtful post. It is much easier to attack me than it is to provide advise on moving forward in life.

flat scheduled percentage of income being paid to the government for Education, Defense and organizations such as NASA. Government has no role to be taken in helath care, moral decisions, or personal life decisions one way or the other.

the problem with this statement is... the federal government doesnt have the power given by the Constitution to tax us for health care, education or NASA.

NASA what a bunch of bullshit. I looked at their budget last year and it was basically $5 for every human in the US. If you want to explore space, then do it with private dollars.
The federal government shouldnt need much tax revenue, because they shouldnt do much.
just another point that says your are a democrat. you cant seriously be a democrat and be pro 2nd amendment. And all the other parts are built and protected by the 2nd.

[nynco]

No I think that both parties are a pile of crap. I think we need to fundamentally reform the system to end the 2 party dictatorship. We need to go to Instant Run Off Voting. Then we have the power to vote for whome we want to represent us and not just the lessor of two evils.

[Singlestack]

I don't think anyone here defended the debt and spending that Bush did, especially in the 2nd term - utterly reprehensible. However, Beeho is Bush on steroids. My lib sister in law knee jerk responds with "the republicans do it too" to any criticism of the dems or Beeho. I keep telling her I'm not defending Bush, but the playbook doesn't change.

The 2nd amendment is the ultimate protector of all the others, and the dem party is out to gut the 2nd. So if you believe in constitutional freedoms, there in only one way to vote.

[nynco]

nynco is a lost cause. He will still vote for the DEMS... he might as well turn in his guns already. You notice what he is good at? He changed the subject, hijacked this thread back to his old game of your guys are worse than my guys hence why my guys have the right to do the wrong thing. Fucking loser

I changed the subject, NO I replied to another posters false allegations.

[HBARleatherneck]

both parties are a pile of crap. but it you ever changed a dirty diaper here is an example.

when a baby is new and only drinks milk, the poop really doesnt smell. (republicans)
when a bay starts eating meat and vegetables, the poop really stinks. (democrats)

they are both piles of shit, but one stinks a whole lot more than the other.

[brobar]

you cant seriously be a democrat and be pro 2nd amendment.

Why is that? Is this something that can be factually backed up, or just an opinion? I was of the belief that our Constitution applied to ALL American citizens... not just those of a particular party system. I am however intrigued and will gladly entertain any data you can produce that supports that as being fact.

[Bailey Guns]

No I think that both parties are a pile of crap. I think we need to fundamentally reform the system to end the 2 party dictatorship. We need to go to Instant Run Off Voting. Then we have the power to vote for whome we want to represent us and not just the lessor of two evils.

nynco doesn't believe in the Constitution. CHECK.

[nynco]

they also didn't create a health care system that will cause prices to explode and force many middle class americans to go without it or be forced into a terrible system....
It is just one more bullshit program like social security, medicare, medicaid, food stamps, section 8 etc. If all of these went away and people actually took the personal responsibility upon themselves to save for the future instead of blowing money on bullshit now we wouldn't have to worry about these programs, we would get more money in each paycheck, employers could pay more money to their employees, contribute more to their private retirement programs or 401K/IRA etc.

The liberal mindset is a disease. You need help.

No Bush created the Medicare drug program as a big wet kiss to the drug companies and did not pay for it one bit. Again.... both sides are a pile of crap

[Bailey Guns]

Why is that? Is this something that can be factually backed up, or just an opinion? I was of the belief that our Constitution applied to ALL American citizens... not just those of a particular party system. I am however intrigued and will gladly entertain any data you can produce that supports that as being fact.

Why don't you search some of the other threads where this has been repeated over and over with valid reasons given rather than asking others to do your work for you? As a matter of fact, I posted a very compelling essay by Mike Rosen in THIS thread as to why it's basically true (the essay isn't about why you can't be a democrat and be pro-gun but it outlines the reason nonetheless).

I know tending liberal reduces the ability to think critically, but you should at least give it a shot.

[nynco]

nynco doesn't believe in the Constitution. CHECK.

The founding fathers warned us of political parties. They also gave us a means to change the constitution because they knew that it was not perfect. We can go to Instant Run Off Voting for every race except the presidential. Because that is the only race that dictates that we must use the electoral college. So once again, we can fix this and still be in clear of the constitution. I also in favor of Amending the constitution to get rid of the electoral college AND to enshrine the common sense fact that only HUMANS can be citizens and NOT artificial gov creations of law called corporations.

So get your facts straight...

[brobar]

Why don't you search some of the other threads where this has been repeated over and over with valid reasons given rather than asking others to do your work for you? As a matter of fact, I posted a very compelling essay by Mike Rosen in THIS thread as to why it's basically true (the essay isn't about why you can't be a democrat and be pro-gun but it outlines the reason nonetheless).

I know tending liberal reduces the ability to think critically, but you should at least give it a shot.

Do these other threads post fact? Or opinion?

[brobar]

And weren't you the one, Bailey, who was posting how this whole mess was because of the liberals? hehe... it is starting to make sense now!!!

[Bailey Guns]

What whole mess? I'm glad it's making sense to you because it doesn't make sense to anyone else who isn't a liberal.

[ChunkyMonkey]

I changed the subject, NO I replied to another posters false allegations.

Typical libtard.. You have always been an attention whore. You cannot let your ego go and must respond every single post, dont ya. You are so obvious by now.

[nynco]

It takes years of adult experience to fully understand our two main political parties. Neither one is something I want to cuddle up with at night, but when I have to choose the most satisfying lay, I know which way I go.

This fellow comes here asking for guidance in his beliefs. At that point, two paths were available for replies:

1. Educate him on the folly of his ways.

2. Kick the shit out of him because you're pissed off and you want blood.

Are some of you more interested in making yourselves feel better or are you more interested in changing the hearts and minds of people who may or may not have had some wool pulled over their eyes?

I am more interested in acquiring allies right now than I am interested in getting my angry nut off because I feel like a fucking loser over recent legislation... and I DO feel like a loser right now.

OP - Your beliefs and issues are your own. It is a crazy and complicated world and those at the top of both of our political parties have very vested interests in regards to our legislation. What you have to ask yourself, at the end of the day, is which efforts currently underway have the largest chance of rendering all of your rights and beliefs irrelevant? If someone wants to take your ability to live a free, happy, and successful life away, how will you respond when it comes down to the tilting point? If you are not armed, you won't even have the chance to answer that question.

Think about that.


Here let me repost this for you Bailey and many others.

[brobar]

What whole mess? I'm glad it's making sense to you because it doesn't make sense to anyone else who isn't a liberal.

The whole gun control mess here in CO. I'm pretty sure it was you who made the post about how this was all the democrats fault. That is a very liberal mindset of you. To shuck the responsibility and put the blame for your problems on somebody else. You know the reason we are in this debacle is because half of the republicans sat on their ass during the last election. But maybe the closet liberal in you is trying to come out when you put the blame on someone else.

[nynco]

Typical libtard.. You have always been an attention whore. You cannot let your ego go and must respond every single post, dont ya. You are so obvious by now.


You just accused me of what you are doing yourself... good job

[ChunkyMonkey]

Back to the topic.. liberal = mental disease. Carry on.

[Bailey Guns]

The founding fathers warned us of political parties. They also gave us a means to change the constitution because they knew that it was not perfect. We can go to Instant Run Off Voting for every race except the presidential. Because that is the only race that dictates that we must use the electoral college. So once again, we can fix this and still be in clear of the constitution. I also in favor of Amending the constitution to get rid of the electoral college AND to enshrine the common sense fact that only HUMANS can be citizens and NOT artificial gov creations of law called corporations.

So get your facts straight...

Ah. So now we have further conditions that weren't added before because the original statement couldn't be supported.

It's not my fault you can't say what you mean.

[nynco]

No you idiot those are facts, they are not conditions. You just don't seem to have the mental faculties to understand facts without me typing them out for you.

[ChunkyMonkey]

You just accused me of what you are doing yourself... good job

How many threads have you turned into all about nynco is right and everyone else is wrong? Nothing new. You were bragging of Obama administration and the dems until your gun right is being attacked by your heroes. Now your argument shifted to well... GOP is worse. Not an accusation, stating fact about you.

[nynco]

How many threads have you turned into all about nynco is right and everyone else is wrong? Nothing new. You were bragging of Obama administration and the dems until your gun right is being attacked by your heroes. Now your argument shifted to well... GOP is worse. Not an accusation, stating fact about you.

Again you are accusing me of doing exactly what you are doing RIGHT NOW

[Gman]

To be honest, I hate the whole two party system and believe we need to sort other things out, but i vote more based on gun rights than any other issue. So, I vote republican, because 9.9999 times out 10, they're the ones defending this freedom.
It's not a "two party system". It was never systematically intended to be this way. Our political process has devolved to this point.

I agree with voting on gun rights as a primary issue. Gun rights equals freedom. None of the rest of the Constitution or "our" government means a damn thing without it.

[Gman]

You know the reason we are in this debacle is because half of the republicans sat on their ass during the last election.
Not in my voting district...

[nynco]

It's not a "two party system". It was never systematically intended to be this way. Our political process has devolved to this point.

I agree with voting on gun rights as a primary issue. Gun rights equals freedom. None of the rest of the Constitution or "our" government means a damn thing without it.

Agreed

[strm_trpr]

So, back on topic, Thomas Jefferson who is one of the founding members of the Democratic Party has this to say

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"
-- Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334


It is my argument that the current Democratic party ideals do not match mine or those of my ancessters who founded this country and fought beside washington. Why has Democrat become socialist?

unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244)

[HoneyBadger]

I don't have time to read the whole thread, but your views are clearly not in line with the democratic party. Honestly, you sound like you could be more libertarian than anything else. I'm not sure exactly what you mean when you say that taxation should be proportionate to wealth... do you mean a flat tax?

[Busta Prima]

There already is a party for you (us) as I'm sure in all of these replies (which I didn't read) someone already mentioned: You're a Libertarian. Vote Libertarian from now on. That is what I'm doing. No, your vote doesn't go to waste because if nothing else it sends a message to both of the other two, useless parties and shows other Libertarians that support is growing.

Never think you're alone. Not one single person here is okay with each and every issue with any party, no matter what they say.


I am a Democrat.....Don't attack me, please, hear me out.

I am pro gun, pro choice, pro freedom, believe gays should marry, believe that taxation should be proporuntate to wealth, and believe the war on drugs is a lost cause.

But The Democratic party is attacking my firearms rights which I hold above many others.

Should I change my affiliation or fight from inside?

[strm_trpr]

I don't have time to read the whole thread, but your views are clearly not in line with the democratic party. Honestly, you sound like you could be more libertarian than anything else. I'm not sure exactly what you mean when you say that taxation should be proportionate to wealth... do you mean a flat tax?

yes i mean a flat percentage. I have read that true libertarian ideals say that the individual decides what they want to contribute to the government in taxes, to me that does not seem that realistic. But why can't income tax be a simple 10-15%, that is proportional because the more you make the more money that percentage is, it is math. I don't think the percentage paid should go up if you make more money.

[MED]

Hey guys just because I said I am a democrat does not mean that I always vote that way. There are pro gun Democrats just like there are anti gun republicans. How do I enable the democrats to do anything? And I am not appologizing for my political association.

I spent hours upon hours of my life after the '94 Assault Weapons Ban working on campaigns and cleaning up with the Democrats did back then, and now everybody forgot and we are dealing with it again. I never want to hear about pro-gun Democrats. As a collective, they will strip us of our right to bear arms. It is not about one good guy...it is about what the party does each time they have complete control.

I place my freedom and the right to defend it in front of every single issue. I will only vote accordingly. If you believe in the fundamental right to protect your freedom, then the Democrat party is at odds with this philosophy. You can't change it from within. There is too much of a socialist presence in the Democrat party and individual freedom, liberty, and firearm ownership is mutually exclusive with socialism. You might be a centrist, I don't know, but the socialists are driving the bus and you are along for the ride.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Why has Democrat become socialist?

unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244)



Because social justice is the only why Dem can shore up support from the lazy and unlucky ones.

[brobar]

Not in my voting district...

I'm referring to a state-wide level. Of course if you break down district by district, you will see variances. There were some districts where Republicans won with only 25-27% of eligible voters voting. So even though a Republican one... it still shows you nearly half of them stayed home. How are you going to accomplish anything if you don't think it is important enough to vote in appropriate leadership. I've heard excuses from "I was too busy" to "I was out of the state" to "my vote doesn't matter". Well... those are all excuses. Many of those people are pissed about how things turned out... as they should be... but they only have themselves to blame! You can't push the blame and responsibility over to others when it was their responsibility to vote in the first place.

[ChunkyMonkey]

I spent hours upon hours of my life after the '94 Assault Weapons Ban working on campaigns and cleaning up with the Democrats did back then, and now everybody forgot and we are dealing with it again. I never want to hear about pro-gun Democrats. As a collective, they will strip us of our right to bear arms. It is not about one good guy...it is about what the party does each time they have complete control.

I place my freedom and the right to defend it in front of every single issue. I will only vote accordingly. If you believe in the fundamental right to protect your freedom, then the Democrat party is at odds with this philosophy. You can't change it from within. There is too much of a socialist presence in the Democrat party and individual freedom, liberty, and firearm ownership is mutually exclusive with socialism. You might be a centrist, I don't know, but the socialists are driving the bus and you are along for the ride.

Yet many dumbasses like Nynco still can seriously say he doesn't like the two party system, that gun right is the primary reason to vote, and nevertheless he proudly supported DEMS and their ideology as a gun owner.

[strm_trpr]

I have been reading Atlas Shrugged lately too, I do see some strong points in what Rand has to say. Thanks for the positive discussion from those putting out well thought out arguments and posts.

[brobar]

I'm sure in all of these replies (which I didn't read).
Uh oh... you are about to be labeled a liberal for not first consulting with others on here first and agreeing w/ what they wrote! If you make a decision on your own without taking into account what everyone else thinks... apparently that makes you a lib!

[Gman]

I'm referring to a state-wide level. Of course if you break down district by district, you will see variances. There were some districts where Republicans won with only 25-27% of eligible voters voting. So even though a Republican one... it still shows you nearly half of them stayed home. How are you going to accomplish anything if you don't think it is important enough to vote in appropriate leadership.
You can only vote in your home district. You can be a cheerleader if you want to be, but you have no input to the result outside of your voting district.

[Busta Prima]

Uh oh... you are about to be labeled a liberal for not first consulting with others on here first and agreeing w/ what they wrote! If you make a decision on your own without taking into account what everyone else thinks... apparently that makes you a lib!

LOL! But I didn't vote on this poll!

[Gman]

So, back on topic, Thomas Jefferson who is one of the founding members of the Democratic Party has this to say

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"
-- Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334


It is my argument that the current Democratic party ideals do not match mine or those of my ancessters who founded this country and fought beside washington. Why has Democrat become socialist?
JFK's positions look like a Republican of the last decade. Have you been involved enough in politics to remember Dem Zell Miller speaking at the 2004 RNC? There has been no room in the party for a conservative Democrat for decades.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXSQ5BX6YXg

[brobar]

You can only vote in your home district. You can be a cheerleader if you want to be, but you have no input to the result outside of your voting district.

If all you do is vote (which hopefully you did) then you are right... your voice will only be heard in your own district. I'm sure you know though... you aren't handcuffed and shackled to where you can't go outside of your district to help campaign for good candidates in other districts. I'm sure there are plenty of reasons why you won't "too busy, other things are more important on your weekend, you just don't care"... so while there may be reasons you won't... there are no reasons why you can't.

And I'm not directing that at YOU... I'm saying you as in anyone. I hear so many people preach about the importance of the 2A... but they leave the preaching to the forums and water cooler conversations and don't have the conviction or desire to take the sermon on the road where it really counts.

How many people do you know who didn't vote in the last election? Have you asked? If you ask... I'm sure you'll find more than just a couple. Talk to those people. Find out why. Politely enlighten them on the importance of voting and get their commitment to do so during the next election. If you start hearing excuses... educate them on how easy it is with the permanent absentee ballot program here in CO and walk them through getting set up to be a permanent absentee ballot so they can vote from the comfort of their own couch in their underwear if they feel like it. Follow up with them come election time and make sure they filled it out. I did that with several people here during the last election as well as a couple of family members back home in MO. While I can't vote in MO... because I made sure I was involved... MO got four more votes than they would have... so in a way I DID influence the vote not only out of my district but out of my state!

I'll be out in my NEW district come 2014 and I will be helping others campaign in neighboring districts! I invite and hope many of you will join me in doing the same thing!!! Voting is THE most important thing... so at least do that! If the 2A is extremely important to you (as it is to me) then do a little more if at all humanly possible. Make others in your own district as well as neighboring districts are going to vote. Hell... if the lazy ass democrats can do it... can't we?

[MED]

I am a Democrat.....Don't attack me, please, hear me out.

I am pro gun, Good - Your Party IS NOT!

pro choice, Where is the choice for the child? ...his/her right to exist? It is not that simple...there are two people at stake here. I look at every issue in terms of rights. How do you balance a woman's right to her body and a child's right to their life? Personally, I feel there are numerous options and choices before the pregnancy, but after that it turns into a responsibility. But really, this is a non-campaign issue as much as the Dems beat their chest on it. Unless, public opinion changes from the 50/50 split and the constitution is amended, it will not be changed or over-turned in court.

pro freedom, This is certainly at odds with the socialist movement in the Democratic party; you might want to look at what the party stands for on these issues, Private Property, Inheritance and Redistribution, Firearms, Regulation, and so on.

believe gays should marry, I don't agree with their lifestyle in any way, but I would never interfere with their right to choose their own way and the government shouldn't treat people differently. The Republican party needs to change their position on this. This will eventually change.

believe that taxation should be proporuntate to wealth, There should never be taxation that is 50% of somebody's income (ever and regardless of how much they make!)...there should be limits and the government should only provide services that are reasonable within their means.

and believe the war on drugs is a lost cause. This is a double edged sword. There are reasons to keep them illegal and reasons to legalize them. In both cases, narcotics destroy society and cost us tons of money in enforcement, treatment, and subsequent crime. Legalizing them doesn't mean that a strung out person will stop stealing and killing to feed their habit. They will continue to destroy their lives as well as the lives of their children and we will all still foot the bill. It is a boil on the ass of our society.

But The Democratic party is attacking my firearms rights which I hold above many others. YES, THEY WILL TAKE THEM IF THEY KEEP TOTAL CONTROL!!!

You know, we would be better off if we didn't elect leaders to be the Commander and Chief who were raised by outspoken communists and Muslims overseas. I still don't know what in the hell this country was thinking!

I don't know if you realize that a one vote change in the Supreme Court will likely change the interpretation of the 2nd amendment...things are pretty dicey right now.

Should I change my affiliation or fight from inside?

[losttrail]

Its Obamas plan to rack up debt.... Geeee I guess I missed the fact that the GOP racked up more. I am not defending the Dems. But thinking either party is the answer in this two party dictatorship is laughable. Bush more than doubled the national debt of ALL the previous presidential debts combined and you want to bitch about Obamas spending. Or Reagan TRIPLING the national debt....

Come on people

Nowhere did I defend the GOP, also known as DNC Lite. They are both leading this nation towards communism. The difference is that the DNC is on a bullet train while the RNC is in a pickup at full speed.

Let's not forget that POTUS does not fully control the purse strings of the federal government, although with Marxist-Muslim Obama and the Democrat controlled senate, when was the last time a budget was passed? 2009? CR's (Continuing Resolutions) are bound to be more expensive and wasteful than holding to a budget and CR's are what Marxist-Muslim Obama and Harry Reid live by.

Which party controlled BOTH houses of congress for the majority of Reagan's term? DEMOCRATS!

The modern Democrat (Marxist) party is far worse than the inept, ineffectual Republican (Marxist Lite) party.

[wreave]

So, back on topic, Thomas Jefferson who is one of the founding members of the Democratic Party has this to say

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"
-- Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334


It is my argument that the current Democratic party ideals do not match mine or those of my ancessters who founded this country and fought beside washington. Why has Democrat become socialist? ike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244)


You ought to check to see if that's really a Jefferson quote. My money is on no.

The vitriol in this discussion is just awful. You guys are taking it out on one man who posed an honest question and was open to feedback. I can't imagine you talking to someone who was genuinely on the fence about gun control issues. The reasoned, calm responses are outnumbers by pitchforks and nooses.

[MED]

Nowhere did I defend the GOP, also known as DNC Lite. They are both leading this nation towards communism. The difference is that the DNC is on a bullet train while the RNC is in a pickup at full speed.

The RNC vs DNC with debt is a ridiculous argument. Why: the American people don't want to make the hard choices and live within our means. Because of this, all elected officials are going to spend money on programs we can't afford.

Obama: I am absolutely convinced that Obama is acting on his closet Marxism philosophy. His goal: Destroy the monetary system in this country and with it the established wealth.

[BPTactical]

It is my argument that the current Democratic party ideals do not match mine or those of my ancessters who founded this country and fought beside washington. Why has Democrat become socialist? unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244)In my observations and learnings the "traditional" Democratic party was always the representative party of the common working man. Like any other noble idea it has been corrupted by money and influence. I feel JFK was probably the last somewhat traditional D.It has now been bastardized by what is known as the "progressives" which in reality are more in line with the communist party of old. The progressives are the real driving force behind social equality and social justice and all other things "liberal".I am a simple man of political ways and those are just my interpretation.

[Ronin13]

This has been a very fun thread to read... To Jim I say "RIGHT ON BROTHER!" I think it's high time the gloves come off- actually over due.
Bailey- I admire your restraint.
Jhood- Well said, but you're being too nice.
New guy- well I hate to jump down your throat but...


So, back on topic, Thomas Jefferson who is one of the founding members of the Democratic Party has this to say

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"
-- Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
Jefferson is not one of the founding members of the democratic party, FYI, back then it was the "Democratic-Republican" party, and his beliefs are more aligned with Republicans and Libertarians over the current Democratic ideal system.

How many threads have you turned into all about nynco is right and everyone else is wrong? Nothing new. You were bragging of Obama administration and the dems until your gun right is being attacked by your heroes. Now your argument shifted to well... GOP is worse. Not an accusation, stating fact about you.
You forgot to mention he is using that same old Team Obama tactic known as "Red 42 Blame Bush HUT!" [facepalm]Nynco, you should just stop now, not quit while you're ahead, because you were never ahead. Your party is responsible for 90% of the bullshit we have to wade through (going all the way back to FDR)... look at the history of this nation, under Democrats our freedom has been eroded and trampled- especially as of late (1994 AWB- Dem in office, NDAA- Dem in office, Obamacare- Dem in office)... Obama didn't have to re-sign the Patriot Act, but he did. You keep blaming Bush, but it's been 4 years and the debt is higher, the dollar is worth less, gas prices are higher, healthcare costs are higher (my girlfriend is paying $30 more PER MONTH for her healthcare- so fuck you and everyone who voted for that piece of shit), we're not better off, and the light at the end is getting further away. [Mad]

[strm_trpr]

Pro choice means just that choice, I am the product of a choice, I am an adopted child who could have been aborted, however, I was not and have a great life, so I wrestle with this idea, however, there are other reasons for Abortion other than birth control and that needs to be a spirtutual and medical decision by the woman as she will have to spend the rest of her life living with it. And if it is wrong and against God then God will judge her when the time comes as he will judge us all.

Gay marriage I just don't give a fuck, let them marry, then let them get divorced, what ever, their life choice, if it is wrong once again god will judge them when the time comes, I will not.

Taxation: 10-15% same rate for all people regardless of income, this is my definition of proportional.

and the war on drugs, it starts with pro active education, promoting positive families, I am not sure how to do this but focusing on those addicted is not working. Increasing penalties on drugs and drug use has little effect, and legalization of marijuana is not the way to go either, it will only make things worse. We just need a new approach.

[strm_trpr]

This has been a very fun thread to read... To Jim I say "RIGHT ON BROTHER!" I think it's high time the gloves come off- actually over due.
Bailey- I admire your restraint.
Jhood- Well said, but you're being too nice.
New guy- well I hate to jump down your throat but...


I am a new guy....i started one month after you...but what ever, I am still reasearching and learning about the creation of the parties we have today, thanks for the info on Jefferson. Who is the actual creator of Democratic party, Maddison or did it start later with FDR.

Jefferson is not one of the founding members of the democratic party, FYI, back then it was the "Democratic-Republican" party, and his beliefs are more aligned with Republicans and Libertarians over the current Democratic ideal system.

[Teufelhund]

Taxation: 10-15% same rate for all people regardless of income, this is my definition of proportional.

I don't want to go down the rabbit hole that is this thread, but I would like to pick on this statement above. That's not what "proportional" means. What you described is a flat tax. For all intents and purposes, it is the opposite of proportional.

[wreave]

I don't want to go down the rabbit hole that is this thread, but I would like to pick on this statement above. That's not what "proportional" means. What you described is a flat tax. For all intents and purposes, it is the opposite of proportional.

No, it's the very definition of proportional. Tax proportional to income. More income, more tax. Less income, less tax. We're used to hearing the phrase "flat tax" which would be more accurate as "flat tax rate".

The system we have now is progressive, not proportional.

[HBARleatherneck]

Taxation: 10-15% same rate for all people regardless of income, this is my definition of proportional..

first why is taxing rich people more ok? do they use more services? no. many have private neighborhoods, private security, actually pay for their own health care. everyone should pay the same. and that amount should be small. because we would slash the federal government to one janitor and the Marine Corps.

and how is pro choice a choice? does the baby get to choose? no, just brutally murdered. and the abortion because of rape statistics are miniscule. abortion is now about, "i dont want to close my legs and taking the pill/shot is just too much effort"

[Teufelhund]

No, it's the very definition of proportional. Tax proportional to income. More income, more tax. Less income, less tax. We're used to hearing the phrase "flat tax" which would be more accurate as "flat tax rate".

The system we have now is progressive, not proportional.

I sit corrected. I thought a proportional tax would mean you pay a different rate, proportional to your income.

[strm_trpr]

No, it's the very definition of proportional. Tax proportional to income. More income, more tax. Less income, less tax. We're used to hearing the phrase "flat tax" which would be more accurate as "flat tax rate".

The system we have now is progressive, not proportional.

Ok, thanks, That is what I thought, i do not think progressive tax is right.

[strm_trpr]

first why is taxing rich people more ok? do they use more services? no. many have private neighborhoods, private security, actually pay for their own health care. everyone should pay the same. and that amount should be small. because we would slash the federal government to one janitor and the Marine Corps.

and how is pro choice a choice? does the baby get to choose? no, just brutally murdered. and the abortion because of rape statistics are miniscule. abortion is now about, "i dont want to close my legs and taking the pill/shot is just too much effort"

And you are the judge appointed by god to decide who lives or dies....

[HBARleatherneck]

no some democrat skank voter is.

who will then murder the baby, but beg to save cats and dogs and murderers and rapists.

[strm_trpr]

No cats and dogs are property, and murders and rapists will burn in hell.

[HBARleatherneck]

No cats and dogs are property, and murders and rapists will burn in hell.

so now you age god to decide that they will burn in hell? so its ok for democrats to play god, just not the thinking public.

[strm_trpr]

No, god says those who do that will burn in hell, as will men who lay with men and so on and so forth. So he will decide what to do with them, i am just re-laying his message.

[Great-Kazoo]

No you idiot those are facts, they are not conditions. You just don't seem to have the mental faculties to understand facts without me typing them out for you.

let me add this one

http://www.ar-15.co/images/tf_ideal/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by jim http://www.ar-15.co/images/tf_ideal/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ar-15.co/showthread.php?p=1018013#post1018013)
Of course you're not. The germans & poles never knew there were concentration camps across the train tracks either


Jim you are as worthless as tits on bull sometimes. Good job ignoring everything else in there when it suited your needs. Sadly predictable.

When you do not get agreement, you resort to Name calling. Each and every time. idiot this, jerk that. Predictable.

IF YOU WERE A MAN and actually had a true idea in your head, instead of name calling on line you would pm me to discuss our difference of opinion.
However with out an audience you are nothing more than a microorganism of the same belief system that Blames everyone else, points fingers, calls other names, and in the end have nothing more to do than throw bombs.

[waxthis]

Shit, just ran out of [Pop]

[Great-Kazoo]

Shit, just ran out of [Pop]

No problem i'll swing by and leave a few boxes for you.
I'm sure the genitalia of liberalism will be typing away sooner or later.
Interesting how quiet he/she has been since all the new laws were announced. NOW instead of starting a new thread he/she jumps in to the fray and tries to take it over with name calling , stomping their feet and the usual liberal play book shit.

[nynco]

I find it laughable that the people whining about name calling right now are doing just that

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

I find it laughable that the people whining about name calling right now are doing just that

Why are you even here? No one agrees with you, no one likes you. You are not even remotely like minded with anyone here. You are a typical democrat that just loves to piss people off and argue with everything that you don't agree with even if you're wrong.

Please leave. Please.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

It'd actually be better if you left the state too. Go to New York or California where you'll be in your comfort zone and with your like minded people. Leave the fighting the big boys that love this country and the constitution.

Please.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

Nynco, you have a problem. I have a solution.

http://www. theliberalgunclub. com/phpBB3/

[strm_trpr]

Mods, can I make a suggestion. I have gotten what I need out of this post, can you guys lock it down please. It is just being trolled by NYNCO.

[nynco]

Trolled... WTF. I have done nothing here but talk like all the other posters.

Gun rights need to become a non partisan issue and the more that people like many of the other posters attack people who are on their side the more we will lose our 2nd Amendment rights. I have already said I will vote GOP until these things are over turned. However the partisan insanity by some people here make rational discussion nearly impossible.