View Full Version : White Priveldge Confrence
The University of Colorado-Colorado Springs (UCCS) will offer students up to four college credits (http://www.campusreform.org/blog/?ID=4667)for attending (http://www.uccs.edu/extendedstudies/teacherconference_annualwhiteprivilegeconference.h tml) its 14th annual “White Privilege Conference,”
http://www.campusreform.org/blog/?ID=4667 (http://www.campusreform.org/blog/?ID=4667)
Bailey Guns
03-14-2013, 15:30
I've been bypassed in favor of less qualified minorities for at least two jobs I've applied for because I'm white. I would love to have some academic type tell me how privileged I am to be white.
It makes me furious. I'm sure Pancho will tell you how it's all true.
Did anyone watch that video... that shit was racist as hell! Eff those people.
It makes me furious. I'm sure Pancho will tell you how it's all true.
Yep... waiting for him to poke his head in here. I don't care if this offends, HIS people are part of the party responsible for screwing this country up. It used to be you immigrated here to better your life and become an American... now you come here, rape, pillage, and generally take advantage and stay "Mexican." I don't think I've really ever met a "Mexican," but I have sure met a lot of Mexican'ts.
Three days surrounded by idiots and a bullshit paper to avoid a semester surrounded by idiots in some required multicultural class? Shit I'd go...
On another note, I'd also like to hear about how privledged my life has been all this time because its sure felt alot fucking different than "privledged". That's the quality of character in a true man, over coming the obstacles against YOU not blaming your failure on someone else's success.
flan7211
03-14-2013, 15:57
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
I don't think I've really ever met a "Mexican," but I have sure met a lot of Mexican'ts.
I've met lots of Mexicans. Most of them aren't that bad. The ones who are really bad aren't actually Mexican but Central American. All brown people who speak Spanish seem to be lumped into the "Mexican" category though.
I've met lots of Mexicans. Most of them aren't that bad. The ones who are really bad aren't actually Mexican but Central American. All brown people who speak Spanish seem to be lumped into the "Mexican" category though.
That's why I used the "" to say they're not really from Mexico, but get labeled as such (kind of like how I've had black people label me British, wrong part of the island, pal!). And I coined the term "Mexican't" to mean those who come here and can't seem to get with the program, you wanna wear the uniform and hang out on the field, you just don't wanna play the game... You know the kind, they refuse to learn English (hell they don't even try!), they fly their nation's flag, they mooch off of our system without paying into it, they don't immigrate the right way (I have friends who paid thousands or their spouse paid thousands to do it the right way), and a lot of times their paychecks don't even get spent here but instead get sent home! I tell 'em: GTFO! Don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you.
It makes me furious. I'm sure Pancho will tell you how it's all true.
EXACTLY what went through my head.
And sad to say that I graduated from there. [facepalm]
Just remember that your tax dollars are paying for most if not all of the conference.
hghclsswhitetrsh
03-14-2013, 18:08
To quote my late mother - the white male is the most discriminated person in the USA.
liberty19
03-14-2013, 18:13
To quote my late mother - the white male is the most discriminated person in the USA.
Yep. been there.
White privilege?!? What kind of crap is that? Sure, I caught a couple of breaks here and there but I earned them and I'll continue to earn them. Working hard makes its own good luck, but not always.
Voluntary indoctrination for extra credit? I'm envisioning something like A Clockwork Orange...
Hmm...i know im not privileged in my industry.
Rucker61
03-14-2013, 18:54
To quote my late mother - the white male is the most discriminated person in the USA.
Would you trade places with any woman or any other race? I know I sure wouldn't.
<MADDOG>
03-14-2013, 20:05
It's a good thing I haven't been drinking..
Rucker, with all due respect, I call bullshit. Woman and minorities are given priority due to Affirmative Action in today's employment market in case you haven't noticed. Somehow, this video fails to call out what some board members have already stated; your screwed if you try to land a job, especially with a Federal contractor, sub, or otherwise, that has the beloved "AA" standard its trying to meet.
And I will say this, be a white person (I don't care which sex) and walk down some parts of LA, Chicago, Detroit, DC, et al, and see exactly who feels "discriminated" against. Oh, I'm sorry, its whities fault you can't do that because those people haven't been spoon-fed enough welfare, food-stamps, and Medicaid to stop being criminals, pull their heads out of their asses, and be productive members of society...
Privileged my ass, I work for what I have. Some "underprivileged" may want to try it.
Rucker61
03-14-2013, 20:09
It's a good thing I haven't been drinking..
Rucker, with all due respect, I call bullshit. Woman and minorities are given priority due to Affirmative Action in today's employment market in case you haven't noticed. Somehow, this video fails to call out what some board members have already stated; your screwed if you try to land a job, especially with a Federal contractor, sub, or otherwise, that has the beloved "AA" standard its trying to meet.
And I will say this, be a white person (I don't care which sex) and walk down some parts of LA, Chicago, Detroit, DC, et al, and see exactly who feels "discriminated" against. Oh, I'm sorry, its whities fault you can't do that because those people haven't been spoon-fed enough welfare, food-stamps, and Medicaid to stop being criminals, pull their heads out of their asses, and be productive members of society...
Privileged my ass, I work for what I have. Some "underprivileged" may want to try it.
You didn't answer the yes or no question. I worked hard to get where I am, too. Still wouldn't trade places with any of those so called priviledged underclass, because I know that being a white male in the US puts me in the best position. Racism and reverse racism exist, as does sexism and reverse sexism. Telling us how you are or are not affected isn't data; it's an anecdote. As a class, white males have it better, on the whole, than any other race or gender group. Why are the women and minorities given preference? Because, in general, they can't compete on an equal footing. And why are you trying so hard to work for the .gov?
jackthewall81
03-14-2013, 20:13
Threads like this make us look bad guys. Just a heads up.
<MADDOG>
03-14-2013, 20:36
I hope you enjoy your four free credits...
And I'll answer your silly ass hypothetical question; I wouldn't be afraid at all to be another race. Why: because, again, I am willing to work to better myself, just as I have.
Being a woman; no. First, I happen to enjoy pissing standing up. Secondly, and probably more importantly, most women have a total different value system, in that they value children and family over all. In simple terms, they will sacrifice their careers to raise kids. Most men won't.
Lastly, I work in the construction industry, and in case you may not have noticed, the only sector that has been decent for the last 3-4 years has been federal work. I have been lucky, some of my fellow WHITE co-workers haven't been as lucky.
And I don't see any retort for my statement that these underprivileged are given enough already...
Keep going, I just whipped out the Jim Beam...
Rucker61
03-14-2013, 20:42
I hope you enjoy your four free credits...
And I'll answer your silly ass hypothetical question; it wouldn't be afraid at all to be another race. Why: because, again, I am willing to work to better myself, just as I have.
Being a woman; no. First, I happen to enjoy pissing standing up. Secondly, and probably more importantly, most women have a total different value system, in that they value children and family over all. In simple terms, they will sacrifice their careers to raise kids. Most men won't.
Lastly, I work in the construction industry, and in case you may not have noticed, the only sector that has been decent for the last 3-4 years has been federal work. I have been lucky, some of my fellow WHITE co-workers haven't been as lucky.
And I don't see any retort for my statement that these underprivileged are given enough already...
Keep going, I just whipped out the Jim Beam...
I have to wait until after the conference with a Taiwan supplier before I hit the Jamesons. I have enough credits and degrees now, thanks. Curious, by what measure do you judge that the underprivileged are given enough? Here's another hypothetical: if all preferential programs were ended overnight, do you think that the proportion of races and sexes in any pariticular desirable state (college, trades, etc.) would reflect the population as a whole?
I hope you enjoy your four free credits...
And I'll answer your silly ass hypothetical question; it wouldn't be afraid at all to be another race. Why: because, again, I am willing to work to better myself, just as I have.
Being a woman; no. First, I happen to enjoy pissing standing up. Secondly, and probably more importantly, most women have a total different value system, in that they value children and family over all. In simple terms, they will sacrifice their careers to raise kids. Most men won't.
Lastly, I work in the construction industry, and in case you may not have noticed, the only sector that has been decent for the last 3-4 years has been federal work. I have been lucky, some of my fellow WHITE co-workers haven't been as lucky.
And I don't see any retort for my statement that these underprivileged are given enough already...
Keep going, I just whipped out the Jim Beam...
Yeah....and you're psychic, right? That's how you can give a blanket statement such as the bolded text. Just like you can assure everyone that women are "granted" Affirmative Action, and therefore, the problems they've had are all taken care of. Yup. You've said it, so it must be so.
Only it's really not.
jackthewall81
03-14-2013, 20:48
<p>
Secondly, and probably more importantly, most women have a total different value system, in that they value children and family over all. In simple terms, they will sacrifice their careers to raise kids. Most men won't. Why is that? Because they are biologically created to prefer sacrificing their careers for family? Maybe, just maybe, it has something to do with the social world we live in. Nothing you are stating is biologically inherent.</p>
hghclsswhitetrsh
03-14-2013, 20:57
Would you trade places with any woman or any other race? I know I sure wouldn't.
Dont put words in my mouth jack ass. I didn't say I'd trade. I've worked for every freakin thing I have, missed out on opportunities because the second choice was not white. But here I am, unapologetically white.
When was the last time a government contract or an hr director or corporation openly sought out white men? Never. I'm done with this conversation.
<MADDOG>
03-14-2013, 21:06
Where do I start?
If I'm a bad guy for being politically incorrect for speaking my mind, so be it.
Rucker- I hope you enjoy your Jamesons. I challenge you to provide me facts that they are not given enough already, as obviously you are an advocate of doing more. To address your second hypothetical; based on my experience; the answer is yes. Those who truly wish to rise above and excel in life find ways.
For Grey and Jack: notice I state MOST woman; not all. I have seen very career oriented women in my years of graying, but they are the exception, not the rule. Is it a social stigma? Perhaps, but I'm not an anthropology major, so I can't say for sure. Glass ceilings-definitely. Biologically inherent; I think so; men can't give birth or nor nurse.
Rucker61
03-14-2013, 21:21
Where do I start?
If I'm a bad guy for being politically incorrect for speaking my mind, so be it.
Rucker- I hope you enjoy your Jamesons. I challenge you to provide me facts that they are not given enough already, as obviously you are an advocate of doing more.
Sorry, don't think I've advocated one way or the other here. I can't give you facts on whether they have enough without some way to measure. How would you say that we could objectively measure what "enough" is?
To address your second hypothetical; based on my experience; the answer is yes. Those who truly wish to rise above and excel in life find ways.
Interesting/
KestrelBike
03-14-2013, 21:30
I've been bypassed in favor of less qualified minorities for at least two jobs I've applied for because I'm white. I would love to have some academic type tell me how privileged I am to be white.
I can trace my lineage to Spain, so I put "Hispanic" on my college apps and I'm pretty sure that gave me a lot more leverage getting in to the few places I did.
Where do I start?
If I'm a bad guy for being politically incorrect for speaking my mind, so be it.
Rucker- I hope you enjoy your Jamesons. I challenge you to provide me facts that they are not given enough already, as obviously you are an advocate of doing more. To address your second hypothetical; based on my experience; the answer is yes. Those who truly wish to rise above and excel in life find ways.
For Grey and Jack: notice I state MOST woman; not all. I have seen very career oriented women in my years of graying, but they are the exception, not the rule. Is it a social stigma? Perhaps, but I'm not an anthropology major, so I can't say for sure. Glass ceilings-definitely. Biologically inherent; I think so; men can't give birth or nor nurse.
I understand that, but this is what you also posted:
It's a good thing I haven't been drinking..
Rucker, with all due respect, I call bullshit. Woman and minorities are given priority due to Affirmative Action in today's employment market in case you haven't noticed. Somehow, this video fails to call out what some board members have already stated; your screwed if you try to land a job, especially with a Federal contractor, sub, or otherwise, that has the beloved "AA" standard its trying to meet.
And I will say this, be a white person (I don't care which sex) and walk down some parts of LA, Chicago, Detroit, DC, et al, and see exactly who feels "discriminated" against. Oh, I'm sorry, its whities fault you can't do that because those people haven't been spoon-fed enough welfare, food-stamps, and Medicaid to stop being criminals, pull their heads out of their asses, and be productive members of society...
Privileged my ass, I work for what I have. Some "underprivileged" may want to try it.
This bolded portion is what I most object to, because as much as the media loves to hype this fact, it is not true. Just as you have worked for every inch you've gained, so have the very people you are decrying as "given prioroty" due to Affirmative Action. Does Affirmative Action sometimes step in? Sure. Do some minorities get hired over other people? Sure. You did not state "most" in this situation, and I don't think even "most" would work in this particular point.
That's what I object to. I am not stating that people in this thread have not worked hard for what they have earned; but that also goes for some of the people you're suggesting have been given some sort of advantage through Affirmative Action.
That Pancho was brought up at all is pathetic.
This is a sensitive topic. We are forced at work to attend a half day diversity seminar. It was mostly bullshit, and pissed me off the whole day. Right after they make you read some article that tries to shame you into white guilt, the girl leading the seminar tells how the high school she went to had only one or two people of color and it was such a rich school. I wanted to say, "Oh my GOSH, I'm SOOOOOO SORRY you had to go to school with rich white kids, I feel so terrible for your situation." The way she delivered the story was so shitty. I'm pretty sure she was talking about Cherry Creek by the way. Anyway, right after that, they run you through the list of all the different diversity groups they have in the company, including the "White Males" group, which they openly laughed at. By the way, each of those diversity groups has some description for what the group is about and the White Males group definition is basically about getting along with non-white people.
On the flip side, guys in here are coming off sounding like a bunch of total assholes. I've never been comfortable with this subject because both sides like to spout utter bullshit.
I'm sure each workplace is different. I can name names of men who have been paid significantly higher than women doing the same job, with the same, or even less qualifications. You could have a scavenger hunt for black people at the place I work. Then again, I was probably too white to be a Denver cop, and didn't even bother applying for scholarships when going to college.
To answer Rucker's question, no I wouldn't trade places.
<MADDOG>
03-14-2013, 22:24
Sorry, don't think I've advocated one way or the other here. I can't give you facts on whether they have enough without some way to measure. How would you say that we could objectively measure what "enough" is?
Interesting/
I do believe in one doing his or her own research when posing a question, so feel feel free to research the statistical percentages of welfare/food-stamp/Medicaid recipients broken down by racial background and post in this thread. At the same time, please post the data for financial aid/grants broken down by the same classifications. There is a disparity in numbers, especially if broken down into the population as a whole, and I leave it to you to surmise as to why...
But I digress; and Teufelhund said it best in a succinct manner "a local university is now holding a four-day seminar demonstrating how being racist toward white people is not only acceptable, but preferable". Our society has taken such a 180 that we believe that some people (IE: race/gender/sexual orientation,etc) are more equal than others; and we as a society are accepting this as the de facto, and someday, we may be reaping the benefits of that mentality. IE: instead of looking at a person's true colors (and in my view, that is work ethics, honesty,etc), we immediately paint them with their skin color (and organs in the case of this post). Kind of goes against the rights we hold so dear, does it not?
I do believe in one doing his or her own research when posing a question, so feel feel free to research the statistical percentages of welfare/food-stamp/Medicaid recipients broken down by racial background and post in this thread. At the same time, please post the data for financial aid/grants broken down by the same classifications. There is a disparity in numbers, especially if broken down into the population as a whole, and I leave it to you to surmise as to why...
But I digress; and Teufelhund said it best in a succinct manner "a local university is now holding a four-day seminar demonstrating how being racist toward white people is not only acceptable, but preferable". Our society has taken such a 180 that we believe that some people (IE: race/gender/sexual orientation,etc) are more equal than others; and we as a society are accepting this as the de facto, and someday, we may be reaping the benefits of that mentality. IE: instead of looking at a person's true colors (and in my view, that is work ethics, honesty,etc), we immediately paint them with their skin color (and organs in the case of this post). Kind of goes against the rights we hold so dear, does it not?
The pendulum has definitely swung to the far side of the pit. It's frustrating to see the values that we've grown up with being disparaged.
Rucker61
03-14-2013, 22:34
I do believe in one doing his or her own research when posing a question, so feel feel free to research the statistical percentages of welfare/food-stamp/Medicaid recipients broken down by racial background and post in this thread. At the same time, please post the data for financial aid/grants broken down by the same classifications. There is a disparity in numbers, especially if broken down into the population as a whole, and I leave it to you to surmise as to why...
Seriously, I need a metric. What defines "is enough"? Unless we agree on that definition, no amount of research is sufficient to answer the question. My background is mathematics, and the first item that has to be agreed upon is the definition. Preferential treatment in jobs, in college admissions, those are a start. Do we also include metrics of conviction rate and length of sentence for the same crime for whites and non-whites? Do we look at pure test scores for college entrance and also include discrimination against Asian candidates as compared to the population as a whole? How about quality of elementary education, as measured by items like classroom size, number of books in the library per student, etc.?
But I digress; and Teufelhund said it best in a succinct manner "a local university is now holding a four-day seminar demonstrating how being racist toward white people is not only acceptable, but preferable". Our society has taken such a 180 that we believe that some people (IE: race/gender/sexual orientation,etc) are more equal than others; and we as a society are accepting this as the de facto, and someday, we may be reaping the benefits of that mentality. IE: instead of looking at a person's true colors (and in my view, that is work ethics, honesty,etc), we immediately paint them with their skin color (and organs in the case of this post). Kind of goes against the rights we hold so dear, does it not?
Yep, that class and that mindset is fucked up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFCW9I9x0tU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jfjvaL-h4I
<MADDOG>
03-14-2013, 23:09
I understand that, but this is what you also posted:
This bolded portion is what I most object to, because as much as the media loves to hype this fact, it is not true. Just as you have worked for every inch you've gained, so have the very people you are decrying as "given prioroty" due to Affirmative Action. Does Affirmative Action sometimes step in? Sure. Do some minorities get hired over other people? Sure. You did not state "most" in this situation, and I don't think even "most" would work in this particular point.
That's what I object to. I am not stating that people in this thread have not worked hard for what they have earned; but that also goes for some of the people you're suggesting have been given some sort of advantage through Affirmative Action.
You are correct, and my apologies. I did not state "most" women, but that was my intent.
However, I will not retract the AA commentary. The fact that a person is hired or otherwise chosen because of his/her/their "AA" status instead of his/her/their capabilities is bullshit in my opinion. My simple analogy on AA; I am forced to go find one of the Rosanne Barr look-alikes in the bar... Not because of her (his if your a female) quality or quantity, but just because she (again, if you are a her - he) is a Rosanne Barr look-alike. Again, I am not politically correct, but I am trying to interject some humor!
Watermagnet
03-14-2013, 23:27
Would you trade places with any woman or any other race? I know I sure wouldn't.
You clearly haven't tested with a civil service city to obtain a job, ever heard of the "rule of 3's"...They want to hire 50% of the minority applicants even though they = 5% of the testing populous. Hopefully they're responding to your house and not mine. White/Black/Yellow/Brown/Green I want the most qualified person, not the most under-represented to save me and mine. To each their own...
You didn't answer the yes or no question. I worked hard to get where I am, too. Still wouldn't trade places with any of those so called priviledged underclass, because I know that being a white male in the US puts me in the best position. Racism and reverse racism exist, as does sexism and reverse sexism. Telling us how you are or are not affected isn't data; it's an anecdote. As a class, white males have it better, on the whole, than any other race or gender group. Why are the women and minorities given preference? Because, in general, they can't compete on an equal footing. And why are you trying so hard to work for the .gov?
Acceptance of this term = horse shit...Discrimination = Discrimination = Discrimination. The definition of discrimination is " the process by which two stimuli differing in some aspect are responded to differently". For someone that wants mathematical/scientific evidence of everything you're sure willing to accept a societal definition of an imaginary term.
<MADDOG>
03-14-2013, 23:39
Seriously, I need a metric. What defines "is enough"? Unless we agree on that definition, no amount of research is sufficient to answer the question. My background is mathematics, and the first item that has to be agreed upon is the definition. Preferential treatment in jobs, in college admissions, those are a start. Do we also include metrics of conviction rate and length of sentence for the same crime for whites and non-whites? Do we look at pure test scores for college entrance and also include discrimination against Asian candidates as compared to the population as a whole? How about quality of elementary education, as measured by items like classroom size, number of books in the library per student, etc.?
Rucker; I appreciate your argument, but I do not have the time, patience, or Six Sigma skills to provide you an answer that may pacify your appetite for numbers and a counter-point. Again, in my mind and opinion, the stats derived from simple research is all I need to define "enough" is enough. What the underlying cause for those numbers is beyond the scope of this discussion; and does not detract from the original post's objective...
<MADDOG>
03-14-2013, 23:47
The second video is much better...Far less satire and easier to grasp under alcohol inducement..
White people complaining about them not getting the job and or being treated unfairly... YOU'RE UNDER QUALIFIED. That's why you were passed up. Salary wise white males still make a LOT more then their colored counter parts. Stop being a bitches and get qualifications. If a brown or black person was chosen over you they probably got less salary then you were looking for... It's business 101 if you can find someone who will do the job for cheaper and they CAN do the job you hire that person. Racist fucks.
I would gladly hire a hard working mexican that's trying to support their family that works twice as hard as the white guy who feels entitled to a job. If the white guy worked just as hard then it's a wash. It comes down to qualifications. Unfortunately, when you feel entitled you feel are entitled to something I know you feel entitled to it.
All of the negative comments saying you got passed up for one of color etc just makes you look like you feel you're entitled to it. If you want feel entitled to stuff I suggest getting in the section 8 housing line. I pay my taxes so I suppose I will subsidize your housing. White trash.
<MADDOG>
03-15-2013, 00:36
That's funny, I don't see anyone saying he/she was entitled to anything.
That's okay, you are proving the point of "reverse-racism", if such a thing exists... I mean, really, did someone say "mexican no good, lazy beaners"?
<MADDOG>
03-15-2013, 00:49
Oh, let me extrapolate on the last also- if an illegal makes $5/hr: that's because of 2 conditions Mr Business 101:
A. That's what the market can bear because of supply & demand.
B. That's their worth.
I won't go into the diatribe that they are Mexican; that would be racist (although that is a nationality). Not to mention illegal for any business to hire them w/o proper papers.
Watermagnet
03-15-2013, 00:50
[QUOTE=Ashton;1020383]White people complaining about them not getting the job and or being treated unfairly... YOU'RE UNDER QUALIFIED.
Not sure if you're referencing my post or not but either way, see Denver's rule of 3's...Or the public service lists Mayor Welling Webb threw out because their wasn't enough minorities on the list. Neither one affected me, but that's good fortune not honest politics.
"Stop being a bitches and get qualifications".
LOL...Enough said.
"Unfortunately, when you feel entitled you feel are entitled to something I know you feel entitled to it."
Pretty sure entitled is the intent, but...What?
"All of the negative comments saying you got passed up for one of color etc just makes you look like you feel you're entitled to it. If you want feel entitled to stuff I suggest getting in the section 8 housing line.I pay my taxes so I suppose I will subsidize your housing. White trash."
Ahh, a little more entitlement lecture...And then the white trash slur. Clearly you're basing this on fact and not emotion. Who is the "racist fuck" now?
It's cool Feinstein, but perhaps you should substitute a little bit of fact and research with emotion and your post will be a little more intelligible.
<MADDOG>
03-15-2013, 00:54
Quick! We need a Canadian or European to speak up about us lazy, entitled Americans!
[QUOTE=Ashton;1020383]White people complaining about them not getting the job and or being treated unfairly... YOU'RE UNDER QUALIFIED.
Not sure if you're referencing my post or not but either way, see Denver's rule of 3's...Or the public service lists Mayor Welling Webb threw out because their wasn't enough minorities on the list. Neither one affected me, but that's good fortune not honest politics.
"Stop being a bitches and get qualifications".
LOL...Enough said.
"Unfortunately, when you feel entitled you feel are entitled to something I know you feel entitled to it."
Pretty sure entitled is the intent, but...What?
"All of the negative comments saying you got passed up for one of color etc just makes you look like you feel you're entitled to it. If you want feel entitled to stuff I suggest getting in the section 8 housing line.I pay my taxes so I suppose I will subsidize your housing. White trash."
Ahh, a little more entitlement lecture...And then the white trash slur. Clearly you're basing this on fact and not emotion. Who is the "racist fuck" now?
Perhaps you should substitute a little emotion with fact and research and your post will be a little more intelligible.
Actually, my post wasn't directed at any specific member. I don't even remember reading your post but I will search your name after to read it. It was simply a compilation of what I saw in all of the posts before mine. We have people complaining about not getting the job due to colored people and supposed "preference". You have people who are white thinking they should get the job because they believe they're more qualified although the employer may not see it that way. When in reality business 101 always says. If you have someone that can do the job for cheaper you hire them as long as they can do the job. And yes, I dislike those who feel "entitled" to something irregardless of their race and will probably use derogatory terms associated with their race if they're bashing on another race, because quite frankly they're bashing on another race for being beaten out by the other race and deserve a taste of their own medicine. And I'm basing it on the fact that white males earn a significantly larger percentage salary wise for the same job in the same industry then their darker counter parts. Check US Labor Statistics if you want to argue that point further...
Quick! We need a Canadian or European to speak up about us lazy, entitled Americans!
Really, you need the french.
You clearly haven't tested with a civil service city to obtain a job, ever heard of the "rule of 3's"...They want to hire 50% of the minority applicants even though they = 5% of the testing populous. Hopefully they're responding to your house and not mine. White/Black/Yellow/Brown/Green I want the most qualified person, not the most under-represented to save me and mine. To each their own...
Acceptance of this term = horse shit...Discrimination = Discrimination = Discrimination. The definition of discrimination is " the process by which two stimuli differing in some aspect are responded to differently". For someone that wants mathematical/scientific evidence of everything you're sure willing to accept a societal definition of an imaginary term.
I'm just going to say politics is involved in all this city shit. I don't like it nor condone it. No one gets a "fair" shake when it comes to politics and quite honestly I know nothing about civil service jobs so I won't comment. My other post had literally nothing that pertains to your comment...
Watermagnet
03-15-2013, 01:31
[QUOTE=Watermagnet;1020421]
Actually, my post wasn't directed at any specific member. I don't even remember reading your post but I will search your name after to read it. It was simply a compilation of what I saw in all of the posts before mine. We have people complaining about not getting the job due to colored people and supposed "preference". You have people who are white thinking they should get the job because they believe they're more qualified although the employer may not see it that way. When in reality business 101 always says. If you have someone that can do the job for cheaper you hire them as long as they can do the job. And yes, I dislike those who feel "entitled" to something irregardless of their race and will probably use derogatory terms associated with their race if they're bashing on another race, because quite frankly they're bashing on another race for being beaten out by the other race and deserve a taste of their own medicine. And I'm basing it on the fact that white males earn a significantly larger percentage salary wise for the same job in the same industry then their darker counter parts. Check US Labor Statistics if you want to argue that point further...
Watermagnet
03-15-2013, 01:38
[QUOTE=Watermagnet;1020421]
Actually, my post wasn't directed at any specific member. I don't even remember reading your post but I will search your name after to read it. It was simply a compilation of what I saw in all of the posts before mine. We have people complaining about not getting the job due to colored people and supposed "preference". You have people who are white thinking they should get the job because they believe they're more qualified although the employer may not see it that way. When in reality business 101 always says. If you have someone that can do the job for cheaper you hire them as long as they can do the job. And yes, I dislike those who feel "entitled" to something irregardless of their race and will probably use derogatory terms associated with their race if they're bashing on another race, because quite frankly they're bashing on another race for being beaten out by the other race and deserve a taste of their own medicine. And I'm basing it on the fact that white males earn a significantly larger percentage salary wise for the same job in the same industry then their darker counter parts. Check US Labor Statistics if you want to argue that point further...
You have people who are white thinking they should get the job because they believe they're more qualified although the employer may not see it that way. When in reality business 101 always says.If you have someone that can do the job for cheaper you hire them as long as they can do the job.
Is this the mission statement of Affirmative Action?
And yes, I dislike those who feel "entitled" to something irregardless of their race and will probably use derogatory terms associated with their race if they're bashing on another race, because quite frankly they're bashing on another race for being beaten out by the other race and deserve a taste of their own medicine
It appears to me you're the only one bashing anybody's race in this thread...But I suppose it's okay because it's just the white guys that are "racist fucks" and any attempt of calling you a hypocritical "racist fuck" would be politically incorrect, so I will certainly refrain from doing so.
Watermagnet
03-15-2013, 01:53
I'm just going to say politics is involved in all this city shit. I don't like it nor condone it. No one gets a "fair" shake when it comes to politics
Okay, we finally agree on something...Politics shouldn't have ANYTHING to do with hiring anybody for any position. Most qualified = Hired. Black/White/Female/Male/Gay/Straight/ It shouldn't matter, but unfortunately that is not the society we live in. ..
White people complaining about them not getting the job and or being treated unfairly... YOU'RE UNDER QUALIFIED. That's why you were passed up. Salary wise white males still make a LOT more then their colored counter parts. Stop being a bitches and get qualifications. If a brown or black person was chosen over you they probably got less salary then you were looking for... It's business 101 if you can find someone who will do the job for cheaper and they CAN do the job you hire that person. Racist fucks.
When I was an EMT in another state, if you wanted to work on the city ambulance you needed to score at least a 95% on the test and get on a waiting list that was a year long . . . unless you were Black, in which case if you scored at least a 75% you went to the head of the line.
buffalobo
03-15-2013, 05:55
You didn't answer the yes or no question. I worked hard to get where I am, too. Still wouldn't trade places with any of those so called priviledged underclass, because I know that being a white male in the US puts me in the best position. Racism and reverse racism exist, as does sexism and reverse sexism. Telling us how you are or are not affected isn't data; it's an anecdote. As a class, white males have it better, on the whole, than any other race or gender group. Why are the women and minorities given preference? Because, in general, they can't compete on an equal footing. And why are you trying so hard to work for the .gov?
There is no such thing as reverse racism or reverse sexism. It is racism or sexism no matter which direction it goes. Using the reverse implies "different" kinds of racism or sexism.
buffalobo
03-15-2013, 06:00
I have to wait until after the conference with a Taiwan supplier before I hit the Jamesons. I have enough credits and degrees now, thanks. Curious, by what measure do you judge that the underprivileged are given enough? Here's another hypothetical: if all preferential programs were ended overnight, do you think that the proportion of races and sexes in any pariticular desirable state (college, trades, etc.) would reflect the population as a whole?
Your statement implies that you agree that the "underprivileged" should be given something. Why should anyone be given something from govt.?
buffalobo
03-15-2013, 06:33
White people complaining about them not getting the job and or being treated unfairly... YOU'RE UNDER QUALIFIED. That's why you were passed up. Salary wise white males still make a LOT more then their colored counter parts. Stop being a bitches and get qualifications. If a brown or black person was chosen over you they probably got less salary then you were looking for... It's business 101 if you can find someone who will do the job for cheaper and they CAN do the job you hire that person. Racist fucks.
I would gladly hire a hard working mexican that's trying to support their family that works twice as hard as the white guy who feels entitled to a job. If the white guy worked just as hard then it's a wash. It comes down to qualifications. Unfortunately, when you feel entitled you feel are entitled to something I know you feel entitled to it.
All of the negative comments saying you got passed up for one of color etc just makes you look like you feel you're entitled to it. If you want feel entitled to stuff I suggest getting in the section 8 housing line. I pay my taxes so I suppose I will subsidize your housing. White trash.
Almost all of the posts you are complaining about and calling people racist fucks on were referencing affirmative action hires or forced diversity for the sake of diversity. Affirmative Action hires have little to nothing to do with qualifications and in fact put lesser qualified candidates ahead because of race or gender. This is also common amongst companies and corporations who wish to portray themselves enlightened or avoid future lawsuits for some sort of legitimate discrimination complaint. Then you go on to state you know nothing about civil service jobs, which is where most affirmative actions hires come from.
Looks like you popped off about something you don't know shit about and that makes you look like a racist fuck.
Rucker61
03-15-2013, 07:33
There is no such thing as reverse racism or reverse sexism. It is racism or sexism no matter which direction it goes. Using the reverse implies "different" kinds of racism or sexism.
Point taken. I was using the terms to try to make it easier to make my point, but that's intellectual laziness.
Bailey Guns
03-15-2013, 08:08
Here's another hypothetical: if all preferential programs were ended overnight, do you think that the proportion of races and sexes in any pariticular desirable state (college, trades, etc.) would reflect the population as a whole?
Who cares? Hire and/or admit the most highly qualified candidates for the position. Affirmative Action programs are simply liberal programs that enable victim mentality. You're just as much a racist if you think minorities need preferential treatment over others because you're saying they can't achieve on their own.
If a person can prove a company didn't hire them (or admit them into a program or whatever) then there are venues for justice in those scenarios.
And anyone who thinks qualifications have anything to do with Affirmative Action programs is naive in the extreme.
generalmeow
03-15-2013, 08:37
I took an African History class in college. It was about 10 white women, 9 black women, and me. I was not popular in that class. A more appropriate title for the class would have been African Excuses, 101. There was literally no subject we learned about in the class that wasn't the white man's fault. Every single thing we learned about followed the same story line "Africans are brilliant. White man comes, makes Africans live like animals. Whites are bad." OR "Africans are brilliant. White man leaves, and his absence makes Africans live like animals. Whites are bad."
We learned all about Nelson Mandela, and how he was jailed for terrorism, and it wasn't his fault. The whites were just racist. And I said "Wait a second. Nelson Mandela bombed buildings and killed people, and not only was he not a terrorist, you think he was wrongfully imprisoned? He's a hero? What's the difference between Nelson Mandela and Osama Bin Laden?" In unison virtually every person in the class yelled at me that the difference is that Nelson Mandela had a good reason to be a terrorist. And I said "WTF!? You think Osama Bin Laden and muslims don't think he has a good reason? It depends on what side you're on!" The teacher told me that if she was younger she basically would have physically assaulted me for saying that Nelson Mandela was a terrorist.
Every day it was me against 20 people who wanted to kill me. I loved every second of it.
Bailey Guns
03-15-2013, 09:06
Every day it was me against 20 people who wanted to kill me. I loved every second of it.
Yeah, I can see feeling that way. I probably would've failed the class but it would've been the most fun I've had failing something.
generalmeow
03-15-2013, 09:12
Yeah, I can see feeling that way. I probably would've failed the class but it would've been the most fun I've had failing something.
I got an A. Because the answer to every question was "It's the white man's fault." And, being a white man, it was easy to remember.
Rucker61
03-15-2013, 09:20
Your statement implies that you agree that the "underprivileged" should be given something. Why should anyone be given something from govt.?
Because government, at some level, gives more to others?
I got an A. Because the answer to every question was "It's the white man's fault." And, being a white man, it was easy to remember.
[ROFL3] That really shouldn't be funny but damn I laughed my ass off picturing that classroom environment. I had a similar experience in college but it was a female writing class. I also knew the right answers (women are smarter then men and men just want to keep them down and chained up in the basement) but I still managed to get a C. It killed my 4.0 in college, safe to say I was unimpressed.
Rucker61
03-15-2013, 09:28
The teacher told me that if she was younger she basically would have physically assaulted me for saying that Nelson Mandela was a terrorist.
Just think if she was allowed to carry a gun in class.
Every day it was me against 20 people who wanted to kill me. I loved every second of it.
Sounds like fun. When I was in college I took a class on a history of the Vietnam War. Most of the studertns were older students, mostly liberal and quite a few veterans against the war. The class was right after my ROTC class, so they loved it when I showed up every day in full BDUs. I remember one day when the instructor, a former CIA man who ran tribesmen in Laos, brought in our full bull Professor of Military Science to relate his Vietnam Was experiences. I though we were going to have a full blown riot when he referred to the Viets as "little rice-propelled bastards".
I had a similar professor as you did for my Central American History class. This was the mid 80s so I was trying to get as much info on possible enemies possible. Again, the class was right after my ROTC class and the environment was every bit as hostile. My instructor, who must have had a Sandanista tattoo or two tucked away, was more passive/aggressive than yours. Only class I failed in college, and my ROTC instructors understood why.
That Pancho was brought up at all is pathetic.
My bad, didn't mean to call someone out who purposefully interjects into many of our topics of discussion and spews borderline racist bullshit blindly defending a group of people as if they never did any harm (we all know that's a big steaming lie). It's similar to nynco jumping in and defending the democrats and immediately blaming Bush... so no, I'm going to refrain from apologizing for calling Pancho out on his crap.
White people complaining about them not getting the job and or being treated unfairly... YOU'RE UNDER QUALIFIED. That's why you were passed up. Salary wise white males still make a LOT more then their colored counter parts. Stop being a bitches and get qualifications. If a brown or black person was chosen over you they probably got less salary then you were looking for... It's business 101 if you can find someone who will do the job for cheaper and they CAN do the job you hire that person. Racist fucks.
Obviously you've never been passed over for the job, promotion, or even fair treatment because you're white. I have been passed over for fair treatment due to my whiteness, and seen a guy with lesser work ethic and qualifications get promoted because he was not white over a harder working white guy. Hell, I've even had friends tell me how a FIRE DEPARTMENT selected a black guy who scored lower on the test than a white guy, because they had to have X amount of color in their ranks. So no, it's not due to qualifications. I attended a state college with two people (one a Pacific Islander, the other a Black person) who got scholarships just because of their heritage/color, nothing else. Where's my "White Boy Scholarship"?
jackthewall81
03-15-2013, 09:46
My bad, didn't mean to call someone out who purposefully interjects into many of our topics of discussion and spews borderline racist bullshit blindly defending a group of people as if they never did any harm (we all know that's a big steaming lie). It's similar to nynco jumping in and defending the democrats and immediately blaming Bush... so no, I'm going to refrain from apologizing for calling Pancho out on his crap. Maybe you should listen to someone who is on your side, believes in the 2a, and sees things very similar to you, yet may live a completly different life because of his skin color. Nothing is objective sir. Pancho might have something to teach us. Attacking him even though he is not even in the discussion represents racism in itself.
Rucker61
03-15-2013, 09:46
Obviously you've never been passed over for the job, promotion, or even fair treatment because you're white. I have been passed over for fair treatment due to my whiteness, and seen a guy with lesser work ethic and qualifications get promoted because he was not white over a harder working white guy. Hell, I've even had friends tell me how a FIRE DEPARTMENT selected a black guy who scored lower on the test than a white guy, because they had to have X amount of color in their ranks. So no, it's not due to qualifications. I attended a state college with two people (one a Pacific Islander, the other a Black person) who got scholarships just because of their heritage/color, nothing else. Where's my "White Boy Scholarship"?.
All valid points. Discrimination isn't just about jobs and college, though. When your father was teaching you about how to handle getting pulled over by the cops, was his concern that you should do what you can to avoid a ticket, or do what you need to do to avoid getting killed?
buffalobo
03-15-2013, 09:50
Because government, at some level, gives more to others?
Some examples? Moral equivalency argument?
Sounds like support for income redistribution based on race or gender.
Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2
generalmeow
03-15-2013, 09:50
I think this thread should be deleted. Because I'm pretty sure it's illegal now for white people to not think of themselves as inferior. We don't want to end up on any government lists.
Maybe you should listen to someone who is on your side, believes in the 2a, and sees things very similar to you, yet may live a completly different life because of his skin color. Nothing is objective sir. Pancho might have something to teach us. Attacking him even though he is not even in the discussion represents racism in itself.
I have given him plenty chances to provide sound, logical, unbiased argument, and he has failed on that a few times, and no, it's not based on his skin color, religion, or heritage, I don't use those in factors in placing blame on someone when blame comes due. I judge the opinions of people based on how they present them, how they argue, and if they can actually do so in a manner consistent with how rational, respectful people do so... Perfect example: I respect Rucker's differing opinions on politics more than nynco because of the way he presents them and argues his point.
All valid points. Discrimination isn't just about jobs and college, though. When your father was teaching you about how to handle getting pulled over by the cops, was his concern that you should do what you can to avoid a ticket, or do what you need to do to avoid getting killed?
That's a bit of a reach now-a-days. I'm willing to bet that if a black kid and I were both pulled over by the same cop in the same area, let's say 5 Points, neither one of us would be in fear of being shot by the cop. Sure growing up was a bit different, especially in the times of 2Pac where police abuse was rampant- depending on your region- and blacks were treated with disrespect and discriminated against because of their skin color, but as a good LEO friend once told me "If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck, odds are it's a damn duck." The fact of the matter is, and this is not racism at all- it's fact- more blacks were 'bangers' than whites in the mid-90s... so the perpetuation of the stereotype is certainly not my fault. I've seen unfair treatment of white kids because they wore baggy jeans, jerseys, and flat bill caps and looked and acted like they were thug... it doesn't always come down to color at all, it's attitude most of the time now-a-days.
Rucker61
03-15-2013, 10:06
Some examples? Moral equivalency argument?
Sounds like support for income redistribution based on race or gender.
School systems in largely minority neighborhoods/districts/cities aren't funded as well, have poorer facilities and lead to a generally poorer education environment than those, again, in general, in white areas.
Rucker61
03-15-2013, 10:08
That's a bit of a reach now-a-days. I'm willing to bet that if a black kid and I were both pulled over by the same cop in the same area, let's say 5 Points, neither one of us would be in fear of being shot by the cop. Sure growing up was a bit different, especially in the times of 2Pac where police abuse was rampant- depending on your region- and blacks were treated with disrespect and discriminated against because of their skin color, but as a good LEO friend once told me "If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck, odds are it's a damn duck." The fact of the matter is, and this is not racism at all- it's fact- more blacks were 'bangers' than whites in the mid-90s... so the perpetuation of the stereotype is certainly not my fault. I've seen unfair treatment of white kids because they wore baggy jeans, jerseys, and flat bill caps and looked and acted like they were thug... it doesn't always come down to color at all, it's attitude most of the time now-a-days.
Interesting viewpoint.
http://scottystarnes.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/liberal-logic-101-121.jpg?w=500&h=416
That's funny, I don't see anyone saying he/she was entitled to anything.
That's okay, you are proving the point of "reverse-racism", if such a thing exists... I mean, really, did someone say "mexican no good, lazy beaners"?
Yes, Ronin said that on page one.
You are correct, and my apologies. I did not state "most" women, but that was my intent.
However, I will not retract the AA commentary. The fact that a person is hired or otherwise chosen because of his/her/their "AA" status instead of his/her/their capabilities is bullshit in my opinion. My simple analogy on AA; I am forced to go find one of the Rosanne Barr look-alikes in the bar... Not because of her (his if your a female) quality or quantity, but just because she (again, if you are a her - he) is a Rosanne Barr look-alike. Again, I am not politically correct, but I am trying to interject some humor!
No worries- we're actually right on the same page. :) AA was a misguided attempt to make discrimination go away, and to force employers to give women a chance. Unfortunately, the letter of the law neglected to take into account that qualifications still had to be met. There are few things that are as infuriating as an incompetent person in a job!
I'm not sure of the solution in this situation; I agree that politics/race/religion/etc should have nothing to do with the hiring process.
http://scottystarnes.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/liberal-logic-101-121.jpg?w=500&h=416
Exactly right.
Telling anyone they need government assistance to get by or get ahead reduces that person's self esteem, their self-worth, there aren't many things more evil than that.
Humans, by nature, want to succeed or fail on their own. Liberalism seeks to destroy this basic tenet of human nature.
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/394700_495330803817004_821865687_n.jpg
This man says he can't get hired and is demanding government assistance until someone offers him a fair salary.
I watched 45 seconds had had enough. I say anymore and I WILL be banned for life from here.
I grew up 8 miles from the Mexican boarder. Anybody that tells me that I had it easier because I was white is absolutely wrong. In that part of the country if you weren't Mexican your life was harder for that simple reason. Why are you so against blanket statements except for when it applies to one group of people based on the color of their skin? If that's not racist than I don't know what is.
Rucker61
03-15-2013, 11:20
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/394700_495330803817004_821865687_n.jpg
This man says he can't get hired and is demanding government assistance until someone offers him a elf-fairy salary.
FIFY
generalmeow
03-15-2013, 11:22
School systems in largely minority neighborhoods/districts/cities aren't funded as well, have poorer facilities and lead to a generally poorer education environment than those, again, in general, in white areas.
Bullshit. I thought I read that Douglas County schools were the lowest funded schools in the state.
Teufelhund
03-15-2013, 11:23
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/394700_495330803817004_821865687_n.jpg
This man says he can't get hired and is demanding government assistance until someone offers him a fair salary.
Hot Topic isn't hiring?
Yes, Ronin said that on page one.
Negative... I didn't say that. I said I coined a phrase to describe a section of the immigrant population.
In other news, America at risk of being surpassed by China in reading comprehension.
Rucker61
03-15-2013, 11:34
Bullshit. I thought I read that Douglas County schools were the lowest funded schools in the state.
Are you missing the "in general" portion of my statement?
Aloha_Shooter
03-15-2013, 13:36
Why are the women and minorities given preference? Because, in general, they can't compete on an equal footing.
I was going to try to read through the entire thread before responding to this but just couldn't do it. The level of cranium-in-gluteus-maximus of this statement is just unimaginable. First off, who the hell are you to say we can't compete on an equal footing? I WILL compete on an equal footing on anything that matters to me -- so will tons of women and minorities I've met over the years. What these preferences do is create attitudes that we can't compete and those attitudes are what hurt both minorities and majorities. These preferences create a self-fulfilling prophecy when people stop trying to compete and instead fall back into accepting, nay demanding preferences and offsets.
When I was applying to college, I got letters from the "Minority Recruitment Chairman" from several universities -- I wrote back saying I was an American and that wasn't a minority the last time I looked so they could recruit me as a student or not at all. Funny thing was that I'd have been dinged harder than a white guy if I'd even been interested in applying to a UC-system school since their internal racial quotas said they had too many Asians. It didn't matter if your ancestors had migrated over in the 19th century or if they'd come over in a boat fleeing South Vietnam or the Khmer Rouge in the 1970s.
You want data? I remember studies in the 1990s that showed people given "group preferences" for college admission had a significantly lower rate of graduation (like 25-50% lower). The conclusions were that even the bright ones had gotten so used to being given a leg up that many didn't know how to produce.
The preference systems put in place by well-meaning but logically-bankrupt and mentally addled people in the 60s and 70s are part of the reason behind the American decline in the 90s and 00s. Garbage like that is why Michelle Robinson could graduate from an Ivy League institution with one of the most addle-pated theses I've ever had the displeasure of reading. Barry Soetoro may well have received preferences for college admission and financial aid despite a privileged background that included graduation from the most elite prestigious school in his state.
generalmeow
03-15-2013, 13:46
Are you missing the "in general" portion of my statement?
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011/04/the-myth-of-racial-disparities-in-public-school-funding
http://www.heritage.org/~/media/Images/Reports/2011/04/bg2548/bg2548_table1.ashx?w=400&h=729&as=1
(http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011/04/the-myth-of-racial-disparities-in-public-school-funding)
I was going to try to read through the entire thread before responding to this but just couldn't do it. The level of cranium-in-gluteus-maximus of this statement is just unimaginable. First off, who the hell are you to say we can't compete on an equal footing? I WILL compete on an equal footing on anything that matters to me -- so will tons of women and minorities I've met over the years. What these preferences do is create attitudes that we can't compete and those attitudes are what hurt both minorities and majorities. These preferences create a self-fulfilling prophecy when people stop trying to compete and instead fall back into accepting, nay demanding preferences and offsets.
When I was applying to college, I got letters from the "Minority Recruitment Chairman" from several universities -- I wrote back saying I was an American and that wasn't a minority the last time I looked so they could recruit me as a student or not at all. Funny thing was that I'd have been dinged harder than a white guy if I'd even been interested in applying to a UC-system school since their internal racial quotas said they had too many Asians. It didn't matter if your ancestors had migrated over in the 19th century or if they'd come over in a boat fleeing South Vietnam or the Khmer Rouge in the 1970s.
You want data? I remember studies in the 1990s that showed people given "group preferences" for college admission had a significantly lower rate of graduation (like 25-50% lower). The conclusions were that even the bright ones had gotten so used to being given a leg up that many didn't know how to produce.
The preference systems put in place by well-meaning but logically-bankrupt and mentally addled people in the 60s and 70s are part of the reason behind the American decline in the 90s and 00s. Garbage like that is why Michelle Robinson could graduate from an Ivy League institution with one of the most addle-pated theses I've ever had the displeasure of reading. Barry Soetoro may well have received preferences for college admission and financial aid despite a privileged background that included graduation from the most elite prestigious school in his state.
Seriously, Aloha- thank you for that, that was very well put and very interesting to read- just basically reaffirmed my beliefs on the matter! At no point in that post did I disagree. [Beer]
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/394700_495330803817004_821865687_n.jpg
This man says he can't get hired and is demanding government assistance until someone offers him a fair salary.
If he has no marketable skills, he'll be lucky to get a minimum wage job pumping gas or sweeping floors. Salary? I bet he wants benefits and paid sick time and paid vacation too.
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