View Full Version : Hickenlooper veto outcomes
We all think it would be great if Hickenlooper vetos the mag ban, right? Here's what I think could happen:
1) Hickenlooper vetos the mag ban. "While I support appropriate limitations to save lives, this law was not as well-written as it needed to be regarding such an important issue to Colorado citizens. Most importantly, it is clear that even with the Senate's modifications, it still would ban man magazines that were not intended to be covered under the spirit of the law. Furthermore, it is highly doubtful that such a ban at a state level would have any impact on public safety. Finally, it is clear that the majority of the public does not support this legislation."
-gun owners breathe a sigh of relief
-Magpul stays
-recall efforts fizzle out
-Hickenlooper re-elected in 2014
-R apathy remains high and Ds maintain a majority in the legislature
-sometime in 2015 or 2016 there's another mass shooting, and this time the ban sails through
-Colorado votes blue in 2016 presidential elections
2) Hickenlooper signs the mag ban.
-gun owners both R and D rise up
-Magpul leaves
-John Morse, Angela Giron, and perhaps other legislators face recall efforts
-ballot measure and/or court case overturns HB1224 anyway
-R turnout in 2014 is high
-Hickenlooper defeated in 2014
-R governor and R control of at least one house in legislature
-Colorado votes red in 2016 presidential elections
I think this magazine capacity bill is the death sentence for Ds in Colorado this cycle, just like the R stupidity on the civil unions bill was their death sentence in 2012. What remains to be seen is whether they're smart enough to wiggle out of the noose, or whether they're going to tell themselves it's just a rope swing and jump off the platform.
I don't think the bill is defensible under Heller, but it may not get as far as a court case if a ballot measure gets put forward.
My only hope is that Magpul will at least wait till the 2014 elections to pull up stakes.
Lippy Laroux
03-17-2013, 14:29
I think under both scenarios Dems are gone come 2014 no matter what.. It is going to look like 2004 again in every state going Red and Obama will not finish the term and impeached or forced to resign because of fraud.
Bailey Guns
03-17-2013, 14:34
It is going to look like 2004 again in every state going Red and Obama will not finish the term and impeached or forced to resign because of fraud.
Isn't fantasyland a wonderful place?
hurley842002
03-17-2013, 14:36
Isn't fantasyland a wonderful place?
No shit! Somebody started drinking the green beer early.... :beer:
Hickenlooper not being reelected is not a threat or concern for him. His eyes are on a much bigger prize (Bloomberg/Hickenlooper ticket in 2016). So threats to Hick just won't work. I have the feeling all of these bills will be signed. The fight will have to be continued through elections, courts, recalls and amendments. I think that is our only avenue right now.
Zundfolge
03-17-2013, 14:38
I think wreave's theory is sound. I just don't see Hick "coming to his sense" and vetoing anything.
If the Democrats are going to lose Colorado it will be over their gun grab.
That's why I say Colorado is still worth fighting for and I'm not packing and running until it's clear that the Dems have solidified Colorado into a 100% permanent Blue State (which it will if they remain in power after the next couple of elections).
Lippy Laroux
03-17-2013, 14:43
Dont be so sure; Obama's people here in Hawaii who helped forge the BC are running scared. I have a friend in the Hawaii Health Dept and he says the people involved have been put on indefinite leave and or have disappeared. I predict an indictment here in Hawaii by years end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8DZRFEnGEE&feature=player_embedded
Hick will sign them, he is kissing the party's ass. Besides for him to reverse his already made statements would look bad.
He probably really doesn't care for the next election, leave us in the dust. As far as going back to a Republican majority in this state, I have this feeling it is nothing but a dream, we can vote but if the numbers are not there with as many of the hard left that has moved here, it will be a fight. Us who are independent thinkers and freedom lovers are becoming a thing of the past in this state. :(
I think the numbers are there... the question is... is the motivation there? During the last couple of elections... nearly half of the Republicans have stayed home and didn't vote (obviously that varies by county... but I'm talking about the state as a whole).
Are Republicans energized and can we get the vote out (like the pot smokers did)? If so... GREAT! If they continue to not care enough to vote... then the next election and this state will be lost.
Dems are toast next election no matter what. Recall efforts are great and I hope they work but at a minimum it will keep people active to get everyone to vote.
I hope hickenlooper does the right thing but I hae absolutely no faith.
I think under both scenarios Dems are gone come 2014 no matter what.. It is going to look like 2004 again in every state going Red and Obama will not finish the term and impeached or forced to resign because of fraud.
I wish you were right but I don't think you are.
We are outnumbered. The problem is that we no longer have the numbers to get these douche nozzles out of office. This state has turned blue and despite how we feel about it it isn't going to change anytime soon. With the marijuana law and Hickenloopers blatant desire to continue to make this a sanctuary state for illegals the number of minorities will continue to grow and this state will continue to lean further and further left.
Lippy Laroux
03-17-2013, 15:21
I think the numbers are there they just didnt bother to come out last election cycle because they thought that there was no way Obama was going to get re-elected with an economic record like that.. Add to that the Pothead vote and a whole bunch of Voter fraud. That is how they won. The Gun control issue has awakened a sleeping giant that WILL come out next cycle..
I wish you were right but I don't think you are.
We are outnumbered. The problem is that we no longer have the numbers to get these douche nozzles out of office. This state has turned blue and despite how we feel about it it isn't going to change anytime soon. With the marijuana law and Hickenloopers blatant desire to continue to make this a sanctuary state for illegals the number of minorities will continue to grow and this state will continue to lean further and further left.
I don't think we're outnumbered, and I don't think pot was the big issue. I think it was a) the awful way the Rs handled the civil unions bill (how'd that work out for ya?) and b) general R malaise over a boring candidate. The split third party vote in Colorado Springs is what elected Morse.
I agree it's unlikely that Hick will veto. He'd have to find a way to do it without shaming the party, and he'd have to get the DP on board. Tough row to hoe.
Cylinder Head
03-17-2013, 16:34
The thing most people have discounted so far is the "dope vote". Amendment 64 brought a lot of people out of the woodwork who previously didn't know what a ballot box was. And they were all "D's"
Californication of Colorado is becoming reality :(
Isn't fantasyland a wonderful place?
agreed...
52% of Amerikans are already on the .gov payroll in one form or another. There's very little that the 48% of us can do to bring the republic back to it's one glorious state
Californication of Colorado is becoming reality :(
Hey now, not every county in California thinks like the rest. The county I come from is primarily Republican and has the highest number of CCWs issued in the state.
robertcolorado2009
03-17-2013, 17:06
Part of the issue with R's can be found in Jeb Bush's talk at the CPAC. R's are seen as anti-everything. He received a chilled response from what I have heard on the radio. but, I think, the truth hurts. R's need to re-evaluate our stance on immigration, the gay thing and women's rights if we're going to get the votes on board. Younger people are more tolerant of these issues. But ALL Americans need to be re-educated on the Constitutional rights, starting with how they are taught in the schools. The Constitution is America's "bible" no more or no less.
So...if the Republicans just become Democrats, you're saying they have a chance...
osok-308
03-17-2013, 17:30
I think the dems will be out in 2014, but will we have enough of a majority to repeal 1224, 1228, and 1229? That is the real question
Hick will sign. Like another said, he's drooling over being either on a ticket with Bloomberg in 2016, or in his cabinet.
Zundfolge
03-17-2013, 17:37
Part of the issue with R's can be found in Jeb Bush's talk at the CPAC. R's are seen as anti-everything. He received a chilled response from what I have heard on the radio. but, I think, the truth hurts. R's need to re-evaluate our stance on immigration, the gay thing and women's rights if we're going to get the votes on board. Younger people are more tolerant of these issues. But ALL Americans need to be re-educated on the Constitutional rights, starting with how they are taught in the schools. The Constitution is America's "bible" no more or no less.
I think that's the "Big Lie" that Republicans have fallen for over and over again the last few election cycles and that's why they keep losing.
Republicans win when they stand firm on conservative principals, not when they get all wishy-washy-mealy-mouthed-moderate ... People want a clear choice, not "Democrat Lite".
We've had this same stupid fight for the last century in the GOP ... we need more Calvin Coolidges, Barry Goldwaters and Ronald Reagans, not Bushes, Nixons, Hoovers, McCains and Romneys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OznoFCZdS8
I think that's the "Big Lie" that Republicans have fallen for over and over again the last few election cycles and that's why they keep losing.
Republicans win when they stand firm on conservative principals, not when they get all wishy-washy-mealy-mouthed-moderate ... People want a clear choice, not "Democrat Lite".
We've had this same stupid fight for the last century in the GOP ... we need more Calvin Coolidges, Barry Goldwaters and Ronald Reagans, not Bushes, Nixons, Hoovers, McCains and Romneys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OznoFCZdS8
That is exactly right. But the Republican Party management thinks the other way. A big reason the R's stayed home was the RINO that was being run for president.
bigshane
03-17-2013, 18:09
My wife and I were both R voters who voted yes on 64, though I don't "partake". I think that to say, across the board, that legalizing pot makes it proof that the D's now outnumber us is an after-the-fact rationalization. I don't think there's an easy answer, but to say that "we got pot, thus the pro-2A crowd is screwed" is premature. Or I'm delusional and just hope that's the case.
If this path continues, we're sticking around for the 2014 vote (and to not have to uproot the HS age kid), then we'll probably pack up and head to a place more aligned with our views.
Personally, I'm a quintessential one-issue voter, and that's pro-2A. Any of the "who do you align with?" polls put me at 95% Libertarian, but I know I'm throwing away my vote on the one issue that I absolutely will not compromise on. Each election cycle I am reminded of a quote I heard awhile back. "When you've had enough, grab your gun and go outside. Look up and down your street... if you're the only one with a gun, go back inside... it's not time yet." (for you lurkers out there the gun, as used in this example, is my Libertarian vote, not a call to revolution on a public forum)
Anyone know WHEN the governor is suppose to sign or veto this shit?
I just want to sleep relax
Aloha_Shooter
03-17-2013, 18:55
Part of the issue with R's can be found in Jeb Bush's talk at the CPAC. R's are seen as anti-everything. He received a chilled response from what I have heard on the radio. but, I think, the truth hurts. R's need to re-evaluate our stance on immigration, the gay thing and women's rights if we're going to get the votes on board. Younger people are more tolerant of these issues. But ALL Americans need to be re-educated on the Constitutional rights, starting with how they are taught in the schools. The Constitution is America's "bible" no more or no less.
Republicans are seen as anti-everything because that's what the mainstream media portray them as -- and this is reinforced by inflammatory rhetoric by other non-GOP non-Socialists. For the record, I'm a damned independent and have been for years. Just to take your last point, name one point in the Republican plank that's anti-women's rights other than questioning the unfettered right to an abortion (and bear in mind Mitt Romney and nearly every major GOP voice said they weren't going to pursue revocation of Roe vs. Wade). Hell, the GOP has elected more women to governorships than the Democrats and appointed more women to positions of power in the Executive Branch during the Bush years than Obama has ever done. The whole "Republican war against women" was the biggest canard of the 2011-2012 campaigns.
Shootersfab
03-17-2013, 19:08
That dude will sign anything D. He does not give a shit about colorado, all he cares about is his own personal status. His ass will move on to washington as soon as he can. If you think he gives 2 cents you live under a rock.
Anyways its st. Patty's. Day [Beer]
I think that's the "Big Lie" that Republicans have fallen for over and over again the last few election cycles and that's why they keep losing.
Republicans win when they stand firm on conservative principals, not when they get all wishy-washy-mealy-mouthed-moderate ... People want a clear choice, not "Democrat Lite".
We've had this same stupid fight for the last century in the GOP ... we need more Calvin Coolidges, Barry Goldwaters and Ronald Reagans, not Bushes, Nixons, Hoovers, McCains and Romneys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OznoFCZdS8
Part of the issue with R's can be found in Jeb Bush's talk at the CPAC. R's are seen as anti-everything. He received a chilled response from what I have heard on the radio. but, I think, the truth hurts. R's need to re-evaluate our stance on immigration, the gay thing and women's rights if we're going to get the votes on board. Younger people are more tolerant of these issues. But ALL Americans need to be re-educated on the Constitutional rights, starting with how they are taught in the schools. The Constitution is America's "bible" no more or no less.
I think this is the problem, not all the R's are on the same page any more as seen above. Some want a "Democrat Lite" as you put it, i call it evolving, and some want an uber-Conservative. So what happens is if they do not like the R candidate , they do not vote.
A big reason the R's stayed home was the RINO that was being run for president.Romney being a Mormon didn't help, either. A bunch of Christian voters just couldn't vote for him.
Jumpstart
03-17-2013, 19:59
The mag ban is the red herring. What we should all worry about is the universal background check. Keep your eyes on the prize.
SA Friday
03-17-2013, 20:12
I think that's the "Big Lie" that Republicans have fallen for over and over again the last few election cycles and that's why they keep losing.
Republicans win when they stand firm on conservative principals, not when they get all wishy-washy-mealy-mouthed-moderate ... People want a clear choice, not "Democrat Lite".
We've had this same stupid fight for the last century in the GOP ... we need more Calvin Coolidges, Barry Goldwaters and Ronald Reagans, not Bushes, Nixons, Hoovers, McCains and Romneys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OznoFCZdS8
[ROFL2]Really... It's pretty well known that the SCOTUS members appointed by Regan were all selected based on their very loose views on the 4th amendment. (The Evolution of the Fourth Amendment, Thomas McInnis) Regan has been quoted as saying he disliked the 4th and would have gotten rid of it if he thought he could pull it off. Be careful labeling politicians.
He will sign them. Bottom line. I won't even bother getting my hopes up. I have sent an email every day to him, called, left messages, posted on his Facebook. I gave it my everything but I know what will happen.
streetglideok
03-17-2013, 20:53
The mag ban is the red herring. What we should all worry about is the universal background check. Keep your eyes on the prize.
Oh you mean registration lite? The mag ban is an issue, but you are right, the UBC is one of the golden eggs. Its a backdoor registration. They want to force us to register them via anytime there is a transfer of control of the gun. I almost look for Hickenpooper to veto the mag ban, but wouldn't be schocked if he signs it. He's likely got an offer in DC if he "gets it done", to calm his fears of political suicide. Problem is, it will in the end leave every democrat hanging out to dry at the next election cycle. My guess is, Crazy Joe and Obama have a plan for all of that after 2014. Tons of conspiracy theories on that already, but I bet money there is something in the works, whether we have figured it out yet or not. They think they have an ace in the hole for some reason.
Oh you mean registration lite? The mag ban is an issue, but you are right, the UBC is one of the golden eggs. Its a backdoor registration. They want to force us to register them via anytime there is a transfer of control of the gun. I almost look for Hickenpooper to veto the mag ban, but wouldn't be schocked if he signs it. He's likely got an offer in DC if he "gets it done", to calm his fears of political suicide. Problem is, it will in the end leave every democrat hanging out to dry at the next election cycle. My guess is, Crazy Joe and Obama have a plan for all of that after 2014. Tons of conspiracy theories on that already, but I bet money there is something in the works, whether we have figured it out yet or not. They think they have an ace in the hole for some reason.
Nah, they don't care about the low life dems. They protect their figureheads. Those congress critters are a dime a dozen. They have a plan, they executed it, they know Colorado will probably turn but they inflicted major damage and make dems across the country feel good but most importantly they are showing places other than Cali and NY can change to the "better"
Bailey Guns
03-17-2013, 22:04
It's been said over and over and over...when are you guys gonna learn. Party trumps person (with due respect to Rosen). If you're a single issue voter (2A), regardless of affiliation, you only have one real choice at the ballot box whether you want to admit it or not.
Be libertarian all you want but it's not doing you one damn bit of good to vote libertarian. As a matter of fact you're just cutting off your nose to spite your face. You can call it compromise or voting for the lesser of two evils or any other platitude you choose as an excuse not to vote libertarian. Libertarians are not going to win major races on a state or national level any time soon (unless they run as republicans). So you can choose not to compromise on your "principles" at the expense of your 2A rights or you can swallow your pride, do us all a favor and compromise and vote for a republican - who almost always is a 2A supporter and actually has a chance of beating the democrat. If libertarians were smart they'd concentrate their limited resources on winning more local races and put state and national races on the back burner until some solid people are in office at the county and city level. You can wish and wish and wish all you want that we didn't have a solid 2-party system and you can hope beyond hope that a libertarian will get elected. Or you can wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up faster.
If you're a so-called "pro gun democrat" (which is a fantasy, by the way) you can vote democrat and hope they don't eat your 2A rights. And then reality in the form of the democrats you helped to elect to the Colorado legislature takes a big bite outta your ass. When your backside is sufficiently healed you can whine on gun forums that you thought they would listen to you because you voted for them while everyone calls you (deservedly) a moron.
And if you're a republican you can piss and moan that "the republican machine" (instead of voters in primaries and caucuses) chose a candidate that "isn't conservative enough". And because you're not happy and to prove a point you can stay home and teach those guys a lesson and watch the democrats who have their political shit together go out, get elected and trash your rights.
Or you can be pragmatic and come to the realization that reality is what it is and voting republican is pretty much the best way you can be sure you're voting for the survival of your 2A rights.
And before any of you purists and idealists point out how flawed the republican party is you'll notice I never said the party, or the people that represent it, are perfect. I'm simply pointing out, as I said in the beginning of this rant, that's your best option if you're a single issue (2A) voter. I am.
Bailey Guns
03-17-2013, 22:19
Part of the issue with R's can be found in Jeb Bush's talk at the CPAC. R's are seen as anti-everything. He received a chilled response from what I have heard on the radio. but, I think, the truth hurts. R's need to re-evaluate our stance on immigration, the gay thing and women's rights if we're going to get the votes on board. Younger people are more tolerant of these issues. But ALL Americans need to be re-educated on the Constitutional rights, starting with how they are taught in the schools. The Constitution is America's "bible" no more or no less.
As Z pointed out, that's just a flat out lie. Republicans need to run on solid, traditional conservative American values. They need to stop playing nice with a media machine that constantly lies. When a media person lies they need to call them a liar and a disgrace to their profession and suggest they find another line of work if they can't be objective.
They need to call democrats liars when they come up with bumper sticker phrases like the "war on women". They need to hammer the truth about American exceptionalism at every opportunity. They need to hammer the truth that illegal immigration is a cancer that's killing this country but legal immigrants are part of the reason we're the greatest country in the world to live. They need to hammer the truth that the Constitution isn't a living, breathing document...it's a beacon to all who believe the founding fathers were given a gift from God in the form of wisdom and will to do what's right against tyranny. They need to tell a lot of people to get off their asses and get a job and become a benefit to society rather than a leach on society. They need to explain over and over and over to minorities the republican party has done more for equal rights by accident than the democrat party has done on purpose. They need to tell GLTB...whatever the hell the acronym is...that they are not special and don't deserve "special" rights. They should be treated as equal to everyone else...nothing more, nothing less. They need to point out to hypocritical liberals that the corporations they badmouth feed their families...that without "Big Oil" they wouldn't have food, jobs, cars, homes, medicines, clean air...pretty much all the things they need to live their comfortable lives.
Basically, they need to stop being wimps.
Dalendenver
03-17-2013, 22:41
I agree with Bailey. Those who think they control the R party are in bed with the progressives and are working within to keep the party ineffective. That said, I think the Ds are dead next year not just because of gun control but civil unions, the death penalty and whatever other extreme positions they get passed this year. I look for a backlash next year. The reason the Ds keep winning is their organization. They send buses through their neighborhoods picking up registered Ds who would not otherwise vote and taking them to the polls and helping them with advice on how to fill out their ballot once they get in the booth. They also provide pizza and soda at the polls for all those standing in line. This influences the uninformed voter. There was another factor in the Pres. race last year, voter fraud. There is no way without fraud that 59 precincts had not one vote for Romney. There was even fraud in Colorado with the way the machines were set up.
bigshane
03-17-2013, 23:11
It's been said over and over and over...when are you guys gonna learn. Party trumps person (with due respect to Rosen). If you're a single issue voter (2A), regardless of affiliation, you only have one real choice at the ballot box whether you want to admit it or not.
Be libertarian all you want but it's not doing you one damn bit of good to vote libertarian. As a matter of fact you're just cutting off your nose to spite your face. You can call it compromise or voting for the lesser of two evils or any other platitude you choose as an excuse not to vote libertarian. Libertarians are not going to win major races on a state or national level any time soon (unless they run as republicans). So you can choose not to compromise on your "principles" at the expense of your 2A rights or you can swallow your pride, do us all a favor and compromise and vote for a republican - who almost always is a 2A supporter and actually has a chance of beating the democrat. If libertarians were smart they'd concentrate their limited resources on winning more local races and put state and national races on the back burner until some solid people are in office at the county and city level. You can wish and wish and wish all you want that we didn't have a solid 2-party system and you can hope beyond hope that a libertarian will get elected. Or you can wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up faster.
...
As the only one who mentioned Libertarianism in this thread, I'm guessing you meant me. My previous post must not have been clear enough. I'm a single-issue (pro-2A) voter, which means I'm voting R each and every election until enough people get behind true Liberty to make it viable to vote Libertarian (and I've been waiting for it since the 80's). You're preaching to the choir here, as I hold my nose and do my part with each election. Voting for Mitt was a nice big bowl of broccoli, but I ate it.
As the only one who mentioned Libertarianism in this thread, I'm guessing you meant me. My previous post must not have been clear enough. I'm a single-issue (pro-2A) voter, which means I'm voting R each and every election until enough people get behind true Liberty to make it viable to vote Libertarian (and I've been waiting for it since the 80's). You're preaching to the choir here, as I hold my nose and do my part with each election. Voting for Mitt was a nice big bowl of broccoli, but I ate it.
I dont speak for bailey but im positive he did not mean you. We have several on here that did not vote for the R because the libertarian mindset and they didnt like the candidate.
Bailey Guns
03-18-2013, 07:31
I didn't mean any one person in particular. Sorry if it came across that way. I understood what you meant, Zip...not everyone thinks that way, though.
I like broccoli!
It's been said over and over and over...when are you guys gonna learn. Party trumps person (with due respect to Rosen). If you're a single issue voter (2A), regardless of affiliation, you only have one real choice at the ballot box whether you want to admit it or not......
Be libertarian all you want but it's not doing you one damn bit of good to vote libertarian. .
^^THIS^^ I'm a rabid Libertarian in every sense of the word, but it's easy to see that third party votes are a vote for a Damnocrat. I vote GOP every freaking time, because it's the lesser of two evils and I am a single issue voter.
Bailey-
Everything you said was basically a giant hammer, hitting a giant nail right on it's head! I couldn't put it better myself. Look at "those libertarian kids" McCain and Graham were talking about (mainly Rand Paul)... what letter is after Paul's name? That's right, an R! That's doing it the right way, you lean Libertarian and you run as a republican and you'll go places. The only way to really defeat this crap we're up against is to be united. Stop bickering like little children over who's daddy could be up the other. No one cares. What we need is to put the Democrat machine down, and keep it held down until people wake up and realize that with Republicans (or Libertarians posing as Republicans) in power, the country doesn't fall apart. [Beer]
Then we'll disagree.
The GOP compromises. No compromises.
I'm not voting party ever again - I'm voting the individual. If that's Libertarian, than so be it.
The Leftists/Liberal Socialist Democrats believe in one thing: more progress towards the Left. We need to be as resolute in our direction.
bowhunter
03-18-2013, 10:37
And thats why the dems win. All dems vote retard, the gop voter base is split 6 ways. A 3rd party will not win, dems wont vote 3rd party. So if the 3rd party voters and part of the GOP voters keep voting 3rd party we will be stuck with what we have.
ChunkyMonkey
03-18-2013, 10:39
It's been said over and over and over...when are you guys gonna learn. Party trumps person (with due respect to Rosen). If you're a single issue voter (2A), regardless of affiliation, you only have one real choice at the ballot box whether you want to admit it or not.
Be libertarian all you want but it's not doing you one damn bit of good to vote libertarian. As a matter of fact you're just cutting off your nose to spite your face. You can call it compromise or voting for the lesser of two evils or any other platitude you choose as an excuse not to vote libertarian. Libertarians are not going to win major races on a state or national level any time soon (unless they run as republicans). So you can choose not to compromise on your "principles" at the expense of your 2A rights or you can swallow your pride, do us all a favor and compromise and vote for a republican - who almost always is a 2A supporter and actually has a chance of beating the democrat. If libertarians were smart they'd concentrate their limited resources on winning more local races and put state and national races on the back burner until some solid people are in office at the county and city level. You can wish and wish and wish all you want that we didn't have a solid 2-party system and you can hope beyond hope that a libertarian will get elected. Or you can wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up faster.
If you're a so-called "pro gun democrat" (which is a fantasy, by the way) you can vote democrat and hope they don't eat your 2A rights. And then reality in the form of the democrats you helped to elect to the Colorado legislature takes a big bite outta your ass. When your backside is sufficiently healed you can whine on gun forums that you thought they would listen to you because you voted for them while everyone calls you (deservedly) a moron.
And if you're a republican you can piss and moan that "the republican machine" (instead of voters in primaries and caucuses) chose a candidate that "isn't conservative enough". And because you're not happy and to prove a point you can stay home and teach those guys a lesson and watch the democrats who have their political shit together go out, get elected and trash your rights.
Or you can be pragmatic and come to the realization that reality is what it is and voting republican is pretty much the best way you can be sure you're voting for the survival of your 2A rights.
And before any of you purists and idealists point out how flawed the republican party is you'll notice I never said the party, or the people that represent it, are perfect. I'm simply pointing out, as I said in the beginning of this rant, that's your best option if you're a single issue (2A) voter. I am.
great post that deserved to be quoted and requoted in multiple political thread. Thank you!
Zundfolge
03-18-2013, 10:39
We're divided ... we will be conquered (hell, we may already be).
hurley842002
03-18-2013, 10:42
And thats why the dems win. All dems vote retard, the gop voter base is split 6 ways. A 3rd party will not win, dems wont vote 3rd party. So if the 3rd party voters and part of the GOP voters keep voting 3rd party we will be stuck with what we have.
This ^^ I truly hope the "ethical voters" in here will be happy when the dems have fully succeeded in their agenda. Come to think of it, you person over party voters are no better than the dems that claim to be pro 2a....
And thats why the dems win. All dems vote retard, the gop voter base is split 6 ways. A 3rd party will not win, dems wont vote 3rd party. So if the 3rd party voters and part of the GOP voters keep voting 3rd party we will be stuck with what we have.
Actually, I know a few Democrats who didn't really like Obama after 4 years and voted libertarian. I know a few others who are outright libertarians but usually vote D because they know the L won't win...
This ^^ I truly hope the "ethical voters" in here will be happy when the dems have fully succeeded in their agenda. Come to think of it, you person over party voters are no better than the dems that claim to be pro 2a....
THIS! Look, the truth hurts, if what Bailey says offends you, you might be living in denial.
Inconel710
03-18-2013, 11:28
Blaming people that voted Libertarian for where we are now is like blaming your little sister for your losing at the spelling bee. If you really think John Morse would not have won SD11 if there wasn't a Libertarian candidate then you're living in fantasyland. As others have stated, the Libertarian vote is composed of people that would otherwise vote for D or R, not just R. You have no guarantee that all of those "L" votes would have gone for the Republican. My guess is the race would have been just as close and probably would have come out with Morse on top. That district doesn't include all the liberals in Manitou and Old Colorado City for nothing!
My standing rule is to vote Libertarian in anything but a close election. Which is why I voted for Romney and Libertarian for everything else. BTW - I don't live in Morse's district. Mine went R.
Here's where I think the Republican party has lost its way. By adhering so strongly to social conservatism, it has alienated a lot of voters. By pushing laws like the Defense of Marriage Act, they satisfied their base instead of realizing they were stomping on the First Ammendment. Yeah, I said it - DOMA violates the First Ammendment. If you're an Episcopalian and your church recognizes gay marriage, who the hell is the government to tell your church what is right and moral?
buffalobo
03-18-2013, 11:51
So which races were decided by 3rd party voters? I have heard claims Morse won due to 3rd party votes. Has anyone verified this in vote totals? Any other races?
I always like to make sure I have the right villain.
Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2
I'm okay with your judgements. The GOP of 2012 proved they weren't 2A.
The arguments are unnecessary because we're reasonably self-educated folks (at worst IMO).
GOP isn't magical.
YMMV
I'm okay with your judgements. The GOP of 2012 proved they weren't 2A.
WHAT!? The GOP of '12 proved they weren't 2A? What are you talking about? All folks here in our state that have an R after their name voted against gun control bills... I don't know what GOP you're talking about.
Local, yes; nationally? Not so much.
Here's where I think the Republican party has lost its way. By adhering so strongly to social conservatism, it has alienated a lot of voters. By pushing laws like the Defense of Marriage Act, they satisfied their base instead of realizing they were stomping on the First Ammendment. Yeah, I said it - DOMA violates the First Ammendment. If you're an Episcopalian and your church recognizes gay marriage, who the hell is the government to tell your church what is right and moral?
This. There's a major divide within the party because many Republicans are either atheists or regardless of religious belief do not believe that people's rights should be trampled on because of their sexual orientation.
I'm a part of the divide. You can ask Jesus to help you all you want. Your children can pray at their desks or say god in the pledge of allegiance. That's your right but my children should not be forced to follow the same rules because I do not share your beliefs. I also do not share your beliefs regarding homosexuals, they are people and they should not be discriminated against because they were born with a genetic trait that makes them attracted to the same sex. I'm not even going to get started on the abortion issue.
I know a lot of women who were Conservative and by many accounts still are but they now vote D because they want equal rights for all people and they don't want some old man telling them what thy can and not do with their bodies. This was a major issue in the current election for a lot of women, Paul Ryan reacts to the lost election by co-authoring a bill that would declare a fertilized egg a human life at the moment of conception. Paul Ryan will never win a presidential election because of this kind of crap.
When the religious right learns to keep their biblical beliefs out of their politics the Republicans might just stand a chance of making a come back but until then our party is destined to continue to fail.
There is a good chance hick would have lost if it wasnt for 3rd party bullshit
Bailey Guns
03-18-2013, 12:28
I can think of very few republicans who've made religion a cornerstone of their political arguments.
I can think of many, many democrats, liberals and journalists who paint a picture of those same republicans as politico-religious zealots.
Mitt Romney didn't make a big deal out of his religion. Liberals did. People bought into it.
What were the voting percentages, sniper? I don't remember.
Bailey Guns
03-18-2013, 12:36
Republicans are all too easily led in the trap of being forced into a discussion, especially on the national level, that should never come anywhere near national level politics. If they were smart they'd start answering those discussions with something along the lines of, "I want to be president. The office, along with the federal gov't, has no business talking about regulating _____________. That should be left to the states or the individual. Here's a copy of the US Constitution and it clearly defines what the federal gov't should concern itself with. Read it some time, dumbass."
ETA: Unfortunately, republicans don't generally prove themselves to be that smart.
We can recognize contemporary events and organize, consolidate and focus a unified vector towards restoration without division.
Bailey Guns
03-18-2013, 12:44
We can recognize contemporary events and organize, consolidate and focus a unified vector towards restoration without division.
We can? Who's "we"? Not saying it wouldn't be good, I've just never seen it. There was even division among "pro-gun" people over the latest round of democrat legislation.
There is a good chance hick would have lost if it wasnt for 3rd party bullshit
There is a good chance Hick would have lost if the GOP had run someone acceptable to the party. Given the split in the votes it was very obvious they ran the wrong man.
If the Republicans want libertarian votes, then they need only do one thing; act in support of liberty first and foremost.
The Colorado republican party has been held back and hamstrung by a belief that they have to kowtow to a bunch of religious zealots and their unabashed, and frankly creepy, obsession with the activities of consenting adults behind closed doors.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk. Hence all the misspellings and goofy word choices.
BG, I have faith in the strength of good people to commit to acting for the good of our Republic when darkness falls.
That's "we."
Maybe it's time to adventure seeing it true for the first time. We have everything to lose if we don't.
Bailey Guns
03-18-2013, 14:53
I guess it's just not dark enough yet for some folks.
What were the voting percentages, sniper? I don't remember.
Would have been within 1%
Zundfolge
03-18-2013, 15:01
I guess it's just not dark enough yet for some folks.
Agreed.
The fundamental problem with people is that all too often the "time to do something" threshold is on the wrong side of the "too late to do something" threshold.
Inconel710
03-18-2013, 16:35
Republicans are all too easily led in the trap of being forced into a discussion, especially on the national level, that should never come anywhere near national level politics. If they were smart they'd start answering those discussions with something along the lines of, "I want to be president. The office, along with the federal gov't, has no business talking about regulating _____________. That should be left to the states or the individual. Here's a copy of the US Constitution and it clearly defines what the federal gov't should concern itself with. Read it some time, dumbass."
ETA: Unfortunately, republicans don't generally prove themselves to be that smart.
Amen, BG.
There is a good chance hick would have lost if it wasnt for 3rd party bullshit
Hickenlooper won with roughly 50.5% of the vote, Tancredo had 36.8 and Maes had 11.2
If you remember both Tancredo and Maes were essentially Republicans splitting their own votes as GOP and Tea Party candidates so they did themselves in. Even combined their total did not beat Hickenlooper. This 3rd party story is a fallacy.
streetglideok
03-18-2013, 19:18
Well, I read on magpul's facebook page a bit ago that it has been announced that hickenpooper is signing the mag ban this wednesday. Question will be, how many hours before the first lawsuit is filed?
Hickenlooper won with roughly 50.5% of the vote, Tancredo had 36.8 and Maes had 11.2
If you remember both Tancredo and Maes were essentially Republicans splitting their own votes as GOP and Tea Party candidates so they did themselves in. Even combined their total did not beat Hickenlooper. This 3rd party story is a fallacy.
But how man people didn't even bother to vote with that crap going on? How man got discouraged and voted for the democrat as independent voters because the republicans couldn't put something together.
We both voted straight "R" one last time.
The vacant voters? I hope we'll see them next year!
Well, I read on magpul's facebook page a bit ago that it has been announced that hickenpooper is signing the mag ban this wednesday. Question will be, how many hours before the first lawsuit is filed?
Call me cynical, as far as "pro-active pro-gun politics" goes in Colorado (Didn't even hear a peep out of RMGO until these bills passed the House) - but I have a feeling we'll be waiting lots and lots of 'hours' until a lawsuit is filed on these.
A lot of bloviation about it, I suspect, and no real movements to overturn it. (Constitutional amendment, while i'd sure vote for it if it showed up, is a bridge too far, I think.)
This is one post I'd be thrilled to be wrong about.
Republicans are all too easily led in the trap of being forced into a discussion, especially on the national level, that should never come anywhere near national level politics. If they were smart they'd start answering those discussions with something along the lines of, "I want to be president. The office, along with the federal gov't, has no business talking about regulating _____________. That should be left to the states or the individual. Here's a copy of the US Constitution and it clearly defines what the federal gov't should concern itself with. Read it some time, dumbass."
ETA: Unfortunately, republicans don't generally prove themselves to be that smart.
Has a Republican EVER something like that? Really, I'd be interested to know of a Republican that has said that government should not be involved in something, while not simultaneously pushing for something else that the government also should not be involved in.
But how man people didn't even bother to vote with that crap going on? How many got discouraged and voted for the democrat as independent voters because the republicans couldn't put something together. So whose fault is that? Not the voters.
Bailey Guns
03-18-2013, 19:56
Has a Republican EVER something like that? Really, I'd be interested to know of a Republican that has said that government should not be involved in something, while not simultaneously pushing for something else that the government also should not be involved in.
Yeah, I've heard a few. But it's rare. And unfortunately, that message is lost on most people because the average person isn't very well educated on what the Constitution is all about in terms of government powers. For too many people it's all about "what can government do for me?".
Bailey, you confuse me because you frequently post you standard piece about voting "R" because they are the only ones who can beat the "D." Then you go and post what I quoted, which seems to me, to be adverse to your usual stance of voting "R" because when you describe what you want out of the Republican party, it is what they almost never do.
Bailey Guns
03-18-2013, 20:13
I've never said republicans or the party were perfect. My stance is, of the two parties that are likely to be elected by the voters the republican party platform most closely resembles my own values. Just keep in mind "closely" is oftentimes a relative term.
ETA: And I'll be the first to admit I tilt way more to the right than most republicans.
Kraven251
03-18-2013, 20:48
Call me cynical, as far as "pro-active pro-gun politics" goes in Colorado (Didn't even hear a peep out of RMGO until these bills passed the House) - but I have a feeling we'll be waiting lots and lots of 'hours' until a lawsuit is filed on these.
A lot of bloviation about it, I suspect, and no real movements to overturn it. (Constitutional amendment, while i'd sure vote for it if it showed up, is a bridge too far, I think.)
This is one post I'd be thrilled to be wrong about.
An amendment addressing HB1224 has already been put together and is in process to get on the ballot in 2014
An amendment addressing HB1224 has already been put together and is in process to get on the ballot in 2014
Yeah. That's the constitutional amendment I was takling about. Not an easy thing to do. Getting it on the ballot itself will be a challenge. How it's worded on the ballot is going to matter too. Then, getting enough voters to vote in the midterm is going to be yet another. I just think it's 25% realistic, 75% pipe dream.
An amendment addressing HB1224 has already been put together and is in process to get on the ballot in 2014
I'd rather have a court case overthrow the bill than have it decided by an amendment, I'd be willing o wait an extra year or two for it to happen. the wording of the amendment will mean everything.
MuzzleFlash
03-18-2013, 21:13
Chickenlooper reiterates that he will sign the bills again. Signing set for 21-Mar.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/governor-hickenlooper-will-sign-magazine-limit-and-background-check-bills-a-source-tells-the-ap
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/03/18/source-gov-hickenlooper-to-sign-gun-controls/
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