View Full Version : $10 background check starts today
sneakerd
03-21-2013, 09:04
Haven't seen this posted. We rec'd notification yesterday from CBI that the BGC fee starts immediately. It is charged to the FFL whether the buyer passes or not- so the fee will be charged to the buyer at the time the bgc is entered.[Bang][Mad][Rant1]
Hmm. Sounds a bit fishy to me since the law doesn't go into affect until July 1st.
bowhunter
03-21-2013, 09:14
I did not mind the idea of paying for my bgc that is fine. But with the additional retardation i refuse to support the state going forward.
sneakerd
03-21-2013, 09:15
Caught us by surprise too. Bastards.
we pay sales tax on that fee? :)
Hmm. Sounds a bit fishy to me since the law doesn't go into affect until July 1st.
HB 1228 actually goes into effect as soon as it is signed.
kidicarus13
03-21-2013, 09:21
Just at the Firing Line or can other dealer chime in?
drift_g35
03-21-2013, 09:27
Yeah Id like to know if this is everywhere as well. Im picking up something today. Anyone know how long BGC are taking currently?
CBI has it posted on their website and on the instacheck page when the dealer logs in. Apparently they are still trying to figure out how they are going to collect it from the dealers.
http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite/CDPS-CBIMain/CBON/1251640766047
So is it what FFL normally charges + $10?
I was at another dealer yesterday and what they were told from CBI is CBI has NO clue what to do. So that's now $60 per transfer at FL? Thanks..but NO.
KestrelBike
03-21-2013, 09:30
Fucking bastards.
KestrelBike
03-21-2013, 09:33
I did not mind the idea of paying for my bgc that is fine. But with the additional retardation i refuse to support the state going forward.
You should. The rest of the country (ca is not in the USA) has their background checks done for free. Your CO legislators insist on creating addtnl steps for you to pay for, and now you are paying for it TWICE with both Tate taxes and another tax at the cash register.
sneakerd
03-21-2013, 09:34
We didn't charge for bgc before. The fee at this point for any bgc is going to be $10. I don't think there would be tax since we are not selling anything at that point. Please keep in mind that we are still trying to figure it all out, and thought we had time to organize. This is for all FFLs- of course I would like to hear what other FFLs are doing as well. I start late today, so am just trying to give folks here a little heads up. The FFLs are going to be charged the fee by CBI, so will have to recoup it at the register from the buyer.
10mm-man
03-21-2013, 09:35
Just at the Firing Line or can other dealer chime in?
From logging in at CBI:
***Important Notice-CBI Implementation of New HB13-1228***Dear FFLs,The Colorado Bureau of Investigation (CBI) InstaCheck Unit would like to take a moment to provide a quick update related to the status of the firearm legislation signed into law on March 20, 2013.With the recent passage of firearm bills during the 2013 legislative session, the CBI is working to create processes to address the implementation of those laws. Specifically, the CBI is creating the framework for conducting universal background checks, and the process by which fees will be collected related to firearms transfers in the state.We understand this is a new process for everyone involved, and we will work with you to address these challenges moving forward. Our goal is to provide frequent communication and updates in the coming days and weeks related to these issues to make this transition as effortless as possible.As stated earlier, HB-1228 went into effect on March 20, 2013. It requires a $10.00 fee to be collected during the sale of a firearm in Colorado. We are currently finalizing the system by which you will be required to collect the fee and remit the payment to the State of Colorado. That information will be provided through this message board, the CBI InstaCheck Web Site and other means.Universal background checks (HB1229) states private sales of firearms are subject to a background check conducted by a licensed firearms dealer. This law will go into effect on July 1, 2013.Again, CBI will continue to coordinate with FFLs throughout the state as processes are finalized. We greatly appreciate your patience as we move forward. The CBI InstaCheck Unit also plans to provide updates involving these laws on our public web site (www.cbi.state.co.us) in the coming days and weeks.The following lists some of the frequently asked questions already posed to CBI.When will the fee go into effect? " CBI is currently finalizing the framework for the collection of the fee with the licensed firearms dealers (FFLs) throughout the state. It's expected the fee collection will begin as soon as signed into law by the Governor.
What will CBI do with the funding through the fees collected during the purchase of a firearm? " CBI will utilize the funding to address direct and indirect costs associated with InstaCheck including increased staffing (24.7 positions), equipment for the computer-based checks and additional physical space to house the team to accommodate the increase of background checks.
How did the CBI determine the dollar amount of the fee? " CBI considered the potential for increased volume of checks in the future, staffing needs and other operational costs to determine the $10 fee. While we believe actual costs exceed $10, we will assess the program at the end of the calendar year to determine if any adjustments need to be made once we have an opportunity to analyze actual data.
Is the fee of $10 fixed? " The $10 fee was based on calculations of two of the bills being debated in the 2013 Colorado Legislative session. The CBI plans to evaluate the program at the end of the calendar year to determine if any adjustments need to be made once we have an opportunity to analyze actual data.Effective 03/20/13
So if I sell a gun on the TP here I can still do it FTF with no FFL until July 1? Also, I'm sure when they review it at the end of the year the fee will go up.
10mm-man
03-21-2013, 09:41
So if I sell a gun on the TP here I can still do it FTF with no FFL until July 1? Also, I'm sure when they review it at the end of the year the fee will go up.
Correct
It shouldn't be too difficult for them to figure out, it was this way in the 90's
fucking ass holes! im waiting for a gun buyed in GB and now i need to pay $10 to this bastards! ahhhhhhh, so Angry
You should. The rest of the country (ca is not in the USA) has their background checks done for free. Your CO legislators insist on creating addtnl steps for you to pay for, and now you are paying for it TWICE with both Tate taxes and another tax at the cash register.
Lets not also forget that this is the only right in which the exercise of requires you to pay a FEE... Bullshit, through and through. Liberal, tyrannical, bullshit.
KestrelBike
03-21-2013, 09:51
Lets not also forget that this is the only right in which the exercise of requires you to pay a FEE... Bullshit, through and through. Liberal, tyrannical, bullshit.
Signed. Again, fuck those idiots.
lowbeyond
03-21-2013, 09:54
Is the fee of $10 fixed? " The $10 fee was based on calculations of two of the bills being debated in the 2013 Colorado Legislative session. The CBI plans to evaluate the program at the end of the calendar year to determine if any adjustments need to be made once we have an opportunity to analyze actual data.
prepare your anus. They are going to jack up the fee every year.
Fucking bastards.
Fuck those fucking fucks.
buzzed223
03-21-2013, 10:14
I just dont understand it....they act like anyone that carrys out a gun crime will fail to pass a bgc.
Hmmm...Well, I guess all of my purchases will be from online dealers then since I see no reason to pay taxes twice. Wonder if they'll be sharing info with the CO DOR.
Hmmm...Well, I guess all of my purchases will be from online dealers then since I see no reason to pay taxes twice. Wonder if they'll be sharing info with the CO DOR.
Your online purchaee will still need to go to a ffl where you will have a bgc and pay twice...
Your online purchaee will still need to go to a ffl where you will have a bgc and pay twice...
Good point! So this would be called then triple taxation then?
Rapid Fire Bunker
03-21-2013, 10:32
Yes
Our Transfer from Online FFLs is $15 per firearm + $10 CBI fee. So 1 firearm and CBI fee is just $25.
Our Transfer from Online NON-FFL Private parties is $25 + $10 CBI Fee. So 1 firearm and CBI fee is $35
Our transfer for IN-Store PRIVATE party sales is $15 per firearm + $10 CBI fee. So 1 firearm and CBI fee is just $25.
If you buy a firearm from us it is price of firearm + $10 CBI fee.
Sad day for Colorado
DeusExMachina
03-21-2013, 10:37
I'm so glad The Firing Line voiced their overwhelming support for this fee!
BPTactical
03-21-2013, 10:58
I'm so glad The Firing Line voiced their overwhelming support for this fee!
Not just the FL.
FFL's in this state are to blame for this nearly as much as the sponsors of these bills.
Every shop I have been in has always talked tough when it comes to 2A issues and swore they would fight yada, yada, yada.
In 24 hours of testimony, 2 rallies and hours of debates I watched I only recall 3 FFL's making a stand.
Way to fucking go Colorado FFL's.
I contacted 2 about making a statement that could be presented to legislators and got the same answer: "I'm too busy"..... Stupid, shortsighted and selfish fools.
They were too concerned about cashing in yet sold out the farm.
Yup, Colorado FFL's, nice show of support for your industry and customers that provide your livelihood.
DeusExMachina
03-21-2013, 11:06
Not just the FL.
FFL's in this state are to blame for this nearly as much as the sponsors of these bills.
Every shop I have been in has always talked tough when it comes to 2A issues and swore they would fight yada, yada, yada.
In 24 hours of testimony, 2 rallies and hours of debates I watched I only recall 3 FFL's making a stand.
Way to fucking go Colorado FFL's.
I contacted 2 about making a statement that could be presented to legislators and got the same answer: "I'm too busy"..... Stupid, shortsighted and selfish fools.
They were too concerned about cashing in yet sold out the farm.
Yup, Colorado FFL's, nice show of support for your industry and customers that provide your livelihood.
I read a headline today that "FFLs overwhelmingly oppose universal background checks". Gun tax is fine but yeah lets take a stand against UBCs!
newracer
03-21-2013, 11:12
Yes
Our Transfer from Online FFLs is $15 per firearm + $10 CBI fee. So 1 firearm and CBI fee is just $25.
Our Transfer from Online NON-FFL Private parties is $25 + $10 CBI Fee. So 1 firearm and CBI fee is $35
Our transfer for IN-Store PRIVATE party sales is $15 per firearm + $10 CBI fee. So 1 firearm and CBI fee is just $25.
If you buy a firearm from us it is price of firearm + $10 CBI fee.
Sad day for Colorado
I thought the law stated you could only charge $10.
lowbeyond
03-21-2013, 11:23
yep you better go change that its unlawful to charge more then 10 bucks for a private bcg. i guess you could institute a minimum purchase so you can recoup the cost. or maybe a tip jar.
i'd go with a tip jar, stick fields mug on it lol
Sharpienads
03-21-2013, 11:24
I thought the law stated you could only charge $10.
The way I understand it an FFL can only charge $10 for the BGC (for now), but can still charge whatever they want for the transfer.
Rapid Fire Bunker
03-21-2013, 11:50
I thought that was clear. Let me try this again. I am ONLY charging the state mandated $10 for the background check. the additional charge is for the TRANSFER.
Transfer is only charged if you shop for firearms online (ie Bud's. Grabagun, gunbroke...ect)
If this is still unclear just call me
HBARleatherneck
03-21-2013, 11:53
I did not mind the idea of paying for my bgc that is fine. But with the additional retardation i refuse to support the state going forward.
i dont mind paying to use the rights granted me by the constitution. maybe we could pay to talk now.
What these silly bastards are ignoring, is that if EVERYBODY had unrestricted access to guns(yes, even felons and crazies), it would still work out to being safer in the long run. It's a tired old saw, but if even 50% of the Aurora theater had been armed, it either wouldn't have happened or would have been kept to a minimum number of casualties instead of the fish-in-the-barrel situation that it was.
DeusExMachina
03-21-2013, 12:02
i dont mind paying to use the rights granted me by the constitution. maybe we could pay to talk now.
This doesn't turn away the Democrat voter base, so it's OK. Like a poll tax or showing ID to vote.
I thought that was clear. Let me try this again. I am ONLY charging the state mandated $10 for the background check. the additional charge is for the TRANSFER.
Transfer is only charged if you shop for firearms online (ie Bud's. Grabagun, gunbroke...ect)
If this is still unclear just call me
^^ or do a private party transfer come 7/1
Yes
Our Transfer from Online FFLs is $15 per firearm + $10 CBI fee. So 1 firearm and CBI fee is just $25.
Our Transfer from Online NON-FFL Private parties is $25 + $10 CBI Fee. So 1 firearm and CBI fee is $35
Our transfer for IN-Store PRIVATE party sales is $15 per firearm + $10 CBI fee. So 1 firearm and CBI fee is just $25.
If you buy a firearm from us it is price of firearm + $10 CBI fee.
Sad day for Colorado
The confusion is that there are two fees being added on at different times. It seems the CBI check went into effect instantly while the mandatory FFL for private transfers goes into effect 7/1.
The CBI check is starting out at $10 but will absolutely increase each year, my guess is 7%/yr.
The Private Transfer fee is state limited to $10, which is a loss for FFLs. While the law says they can only charge that for the transfer, there may be additional processing fees on a FFL by FFL basis raising it to the $15 private party listed above (Which is probably still a loss).
Punkface
03-21-2013, 13:15
so, since people ages 18-20 used to be able to buy handguns through private sales, since they're going through ffls now does that mean it's pretty much illegal to buy a handgun under the age of 21 through private party sales now?
so, since people ages 18-20 used to be able to buy handguns through private sales, since they're going through ffls now does that mean it's pretty much illegal to buy a handgun under the age of 21 through private party sales now?
You are correct except that the UBC goes into effect on July 1, 2013, not immediately. 18-20 can do private handgun sales through June 30, 2013.
You are correct except that the UBC goes into effect on July 1, 2013, not immediately. 18-20 can do private handgun sales through June 30, 2013.
And if your 17 year old kid turns 18 after July 1, sorry, you're SOL. Yet again, this is what happens when you vote for Democraps! I'm so furious, but I've decreed to stay in CO until I see this through (both the legal challenges and the 2014 election).
Circuits
03-21-2013, 14:48
And if your 17 year old kid turns 18 after July 1, sorry, you're SOL. Yet again, this is what happens when you vote for Democraps! I'm so furious, but I've decreed to stay in CO until I see this through (both the legal challenges and the 2014 election).
Well, your kid doesn't even have to be 18 for you to give them a handgun. They just need your written permission when they're not on your property. CRS 18-12-108.5
10mm-man
03-21-2013, 15:06
so, since people ages 18-20 used to be able to buy handguns through private sales, since they're going through ffls now does that mean it's pretty much illegal to buy a handgun under the age of 21 through private party sales now?
Ouch! Good Point- I would say yep.. Im not an attorney though
sneakerd
03-21-2013, 15:12
By the way- the word is that Firing Line will not be doing any bgc for FTF purchases. We will be "opting out".
By the way- the word is that Firing Line will not be doing any bgc for FTF purchases. We will be "opting out".
Yet again, that's the choice of the FFL if they actually want to do FTF transfers... And we get hosed (by our legislature) if the majority of them don't want to and those that do want big fees (again their business, their right to run it how they choose) for the transaction on top of the fee for the BGC. I hope no one here goes shifting their blame to the FFLs, they're not the ones to blame, it's those meddling demorats. <no that is not a typo.
lowbeyond
03-21-2013, 16:06
why on earth would any ffl do it for 10 bux ?
everyone is going to opt out.
it is a back door prohibition on private sales.
jerrymrc
03-21-2013, 16:23
why on earth would any ffl do it for 10 bux ?
everyone is going to opt out.
it is a back door prohibition on private sales.
Why do you think it is worded the way it is.
Looks like I'll be buying my long guns in Wyoming from now on. I am up there frequently anyways so I might as well save myself the $10.
newracer
03-21-2013, 17:06
When the bill was in committee they tried to add an amendment that stated no FFL would be required to perform the BGC, it was shot down and they basically said FFLs would be required to do them. I don't see how they can force a business to perform a service for a loss.
battle_sight_zero
03-21-2013, 17:15
Yet again, that's the choice of the FFL if they actually want to do FTF transfers... And we get hosed (by our legislature) if the majority of them don't want to and those that do want big fees (again their business, their right to run it how they choose) for the transaction on top of the fee for the BGC. I hope no one here goes shifting their blame to the FFLs, they're not the ones to blame, it's those meddling demorats. <no that is not a typo.
I get my tranfers through Green Mountain Guns and they charged $35.00 for transfers so I would suspect that their new price will be $45.00. Quite frankly I suspect that all this gun tracking in some way so I will not being buying any guns unless it is a real must have after July 1st or until this junk is overturned. As I said before I have 3 months to get what I need for the long haul. However after the 1st of July NOBODY is going to tell me how to interact with my family.
However after the 1st of July NOBODY is going to tell me how to interact with my family.
This is the primary issue I see with this new piece of legislation; it doesn't matter if a person is doing business with a family member or a complete stranger, this law is unenforceable.
When the bill was in committee they tried to add an amendment that stated no FFL would be required to perform the BGC, it was shot down and they basically said FFLs would be required to do them. I don't see how they can force a business to perform a service for a loss.
they can force you to do anything, they do have the men in blue with the guns behind them. As for forcing a business doing things that cost them money; thats generally called red tape, taxes, fees, etc.
I wont bitch if I want to do a private transfer and a shop wont do it for $10. I will bitch if I cannot find a shop that will do it at all (as in, for what they would charge to transfer from internet sale).
This is the primary issue I see with this new piece of legislation; it doesn't matter if a person is doing business with a family member or a complete stranger, this law is unenforceable.
They can only catch people with stings. Otherwise there is nothing they can do to enforce any of this. It is a bunch of slap happy bullshit that will either turn into a big damn joke that nobody listens to, or the biggest legislative nightmare that results in gun and magazine registration. I will tell you one thing though; I am going to be fucking livid if any background check that I pay for takes longer than 15 minutes. They are more than doubling their funding and increasing staffing so they better get shit done chop chop.
Don't forget that if you bring you firearm to a dealer for a private transfer and the buyer doesn't pass, the owner will have to fill out a form 4473 + $10.00 to get his firearm back
also this is copied from the CBI page:
The following lists some of the frequently asked questions already posed to CBI.
When will the fee go into effect? " CBI is currently finalizing the framework for the collection of the fee with the licensed firearms dealers (FFLs) throughout the state. It's expected the fee collection will begin as soon as signed into law by the Governor.
What will CBI do with the funding through the fees collected during the purchase of a firearm? " CBI will utilize the funding to address direct and indirect costs associated with InstaCheck including increased staffing (24.7 positions), equipment for the computer-based checks and additional physical space to house the team to accommodate the increase of background checks.
How did the CBI determine the dollar amount of the fee? " CBI considered the potential for increased volume of checks in the future, staffing needs and other operational costs to determine the $10 fee. While we believe actual costs exceed $10, we will assess the program at the end of the calendar year to determine if any adjustments need to be made once we have an opportunity to analyze actual data.
Is the fee of $10 fixed? " The $10 fee was based on calculations of two of the bills being debated in the 2013 Colorado Legislative session. The CBI plans to evaluate the program at the end of the calendar year to determine if any adjustments need to be made once we have an opportunity to analyze actual data.
Effective 03/20/13
Don't forget that if you bring you firearm to a dealer for a private transfer and the buyer doesn't pass, the owner will have to fill out a form 4473 + $10.00 to get his firearm back
I don't think this is the case. As long as the FFL dealer is only facilitating the sale (as opposed to taking possession of the gun), you don't need to run a second background check on the original owner of the firearm if the sale doesn't take place.
I don't think this is the case. As long as the FFL dealer is only facilitating the sale (as opposed to taking possession of the gun), you don't need to run a second background check on the original owner of the firearm if the sale doesn't take place.
What is the source of your information? ATF was at my place on Wednesday of this week and that is not what they said.
^ What he said! [hahhah-no] Exactly, if the buyer is denied on his BGC then the current owner(seller) is still the current owner no sale has taken place. Unless in the eyes of our wonderful new state law they see the FFL as taking ownership since he/she is part of the transaction.
Okay I got beat by 1 post.
They have really gummed things up. Sorta related. If I'm selling my glock 17, I can't sell the gun with the current mags, and I cant find 15 round approved mags. It kinda means the gun is not getting sold. Or I buy a 10 rounder which, will go for a premium, and pay the fees to transfer. Now I'm looking at another 100 bucks added to the cost of the gun. How is this not a regressive tax?
You've got until July 1 to sell it, probably at a hell of a markup before then
What is the source of your information? ATF was at my place on Wednesday of this week and that is not what they said.
You may want to call the main office and verify what you were told; I am quite certain that the BATF agent gave you the wrong information. When you are facilitating a sale (like in the case that was mentioned above), the FFL is not required to accept the firearm into their bound book until after the background check has cleared and the new owner is to take possession of the item.
Nope, the situation was covered very clearly, you might want to call BATF&E and speak with a compliance officer. FWIW
osok-308
03-21-2013, 21:17
Man that sucks
Man that sucks
This is just one more infringement on our 2nd amendment right, IMHO
Rucker61
03-21-2013, 21:24
Not just the FL.
FFL's in this state are to blame for this nearly as much as the sponsors of these bills.
Every shop I have been in has always talked tough when it comes to 2A issues and swore they would fight yada, yada, yada.
In 24 hours of testimony, 2 rallies and hours of debates I watched I only recall 3 FFL's making a stand.
Way to fucking go Colorado FFL's.
I contacted 2 about making a statement that could be presented to legislators and got the same answer: "I'm too busy"..... Stupid, shortsighted and selfish fools.
They were too concerned about cashing in yet sold out the farm.
Yup, Colorado FFL's, nice show of support for your industry and customers that provide your livelihood.
It doesn't matter how many FFLs would have shown up, the same way it didn't matter how many gun owners, how many Sheriffs and how many logical arguments showed up and were deliberately ignored. The Hand of God could have shown up as a burning bush, handed out individual clay tablets with His opinion why these were bad laws and they would have passed just the way they did.
Ready Room
03-21-2013, 21:25
a simple "no" might be in order here folks. Isn't that how revolutions begin?
I hope the 96% hit them (house and Senate) where it hurts, at the polls! I can't wait to vote these folks out of office
The "elected officials" had their minds made up and they weren't going to be confused with the facts
Buckaroobonsai
03-21-2013, 21:34
I heard that gang bangers are raising their firearm transfer fee to (2) dime bags because of the new law.
[Shock]
sneakerd
03-21-2013, 22:02
To the couple of members who implied and/or stated that the FFLs are as much to blame as the sponsors of the bill- What are you smoking? A multi-multi million dollar entity like Magpul- with money for lawyers, lobbyists, money to hire people to fight for them- proves to be impotent. What the hell do you think an FFL owner is going to do about this Democrat-driven power grab? I applaud certain members who stood up and spoke for many of us, but I'm sorry if I had to go to work to bring home my full paycheck. You can't blame a business owner, big or small, for continuing to run their business and not stopping the train to get off and try to stop another one by standing in front of it and yelling at it. Besides, you have no idea what was being tried being the scenes.
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