Any Honest FFL Holders in Colorado Springs?

[colo-pr]

I had my FFL Dealer for more than a year and transfer maybe 15 or more guns with him but today when i visit him for SEND 2 guns for my surprise he raise the Fees to $30 and for me this is not honest because if some holders are helping us with the Imposed Government fee of $10 with low Transfer fees why this holder grow his fees? the Bill/Law dont impose any fee for SEND a gun. Im my opinion he took advantage of the recent issues for have more earning, for this reason i decide to pick a new one, any recommendations in the Springs area?

[IFFV]

You need to take your business somewhere else.
I know of dealers who charge $15.00 for a transfer. . Thirty is just too much. Shop around.

[sellersm]

PM sent.

[colo-pr]

PM sent.

Thanks, appreciated :-)

[Eggysrun]

PM sent.

Same, hope things work out. I miss my gunsmith in the springs :(

[Bailey Guns]

Oh, look! It's the weekly "Bash an FFL" fest.

[mrghost]

Yes, the FFL transfer fee works both ways...

[Bailey Guns]

I have no issue with someone asking for information about dealer's and what they charge for various services. I have no issue with guys voting with their wallets and finding a dealer that charges less or provides better service or both.

I DO have an issue with calling a dealer (or any business owner) dishonest because the guy raised his prices. He may have had an entirely HONEST reason to do so. Expenses have gone up. Maybe he's decided his time is worth more. Maybe his wife is sick and medical bills are an issue. To label the guy as dishonest on a public forum (I know...the OP didn't identify the dealer) simply because you don't like his prices is, in my opinion, in extremely poor taste.

I'm willing to bet the OP has never turned down a raise. Or, if he's a business owner I'm guessing he wouldn't hesitate to raise prices if he had to stay in business.

[10mm-man]

I have no issue with someone asking for information about dealer's and what they charge for various services. I have no issue with guys voting with their wallets and finding a dealer that charges less or provides better service or both.

I DO have an issue with calling a dealer (or any business owner) dishonest because the guy raised his prices. He may have had an entirely HONEST reason to do so. Expenses have gone up. Maybe he's decided his time is worth more. Maybe his wife is sick and medical bills are an issue. To label the guy as dishonest on a public forum (I know...the OP didn't identify the dealer) simply because you don't like his prices is, in my opinion, in extremely poor taste.

I'm willing to bet the OP has never turned down a raise. Or, if he's a business owner I'm guessing he wouldn't hesitate to raise prices if he had to stay in business.


+1- I raised my fee because doing transfers are a pain in the ass IMO. Some people I just don't want to deal with, so it thins out the crowd. And as Bailey said above, I raised my price because my time is worth $$$ and now it is worth $$$$.....

[BlasterBob]

the Bill/Law dont impose any fee for SEND a gun.

I don't understand this statement If an FFL dealer is going to have to SEND a gun to another FFL dealer, the sending FFL must still enter the gun in his/her book as a receipt and a disposition. May not need a BGC but still has to run it through his books..... Isn't that correct?

[mrghost]

I don't understand why an FFL holder would be expected to go to the trouble of shipping off anything for free, no matter what laws are in the pipeline. I guess I've never not paid to send a firearm.

[Bailey Guns]

Curious, colo-pr...how many guns have you purchased from this FFL?

[Blockhead]

Why don't you send the gun yourself? You don't need an FFL to ship, just to receive.

[colo-pr]

Yes, the FFL transfer fee works both ways...

Yes, the FFL Transfer Fee works in both ways, i know that for years BUT the Fee of $10 Imposed from the Bill/Law NOT!!! and take advantage of this is NOT honest!!!

[colo-pr]

I have no issue with someone asking for information about dealer's and what they charge for various services. I have no issue with guys voting with their wallets and finding a dealer that charges less or provides better service or both.

I DO have an issue with calling a dealer (or any business owner) dishonest because the guy raised his prices. He may have had an entirely HONEST reason to do so. Expenses have gone up. Maybe he's decided his time is worth more. Maybe his wife is sick and medical bills are an issue. To label the guy as dishonest on a public forum (I know...the OP didn't identify the dealer) simply because you don't like his prices is, in my opinion, in extremely poor taste.

I'm willing to bet the OP has never turned down a raise. Or, if he's a business owner I'm guessing he wouldn't hesitate to raise prices if he had to stay in business.

Do it in times with the Goverment Imposed Fees YES, is not Honest.

I dont say the name of the place to be Ethic BUT at the same time is not honest, for this reason i decide to change, is my money and i decide when i want to change!

[Blockhead]

Yes, the FFL Transfer Fee works in both ways, i know that for years BUT the Fee of $10 Imposed from the Bill/Law NOT!!! and take advantage of this is NOT honest!!!

The more you explain the more confused I get. :confused:

[colo-pr]

+1- I raised my fee because doing transfers are a pain in the ass IMO. Some people I just don't want to deal with, so it thins out the crowd. And as Bailey said above, I raised my price because my time is worth $$$ and now it is worth $$$$.....

A littlebit of Ethic is not do it at the same time of the other Fee, of course, ALL FFL Holders be defends themselves (is obvious) but if people can live with $15 and also i saw another Holders that devide the Goverment Fee between the Holder and the Client, but NO, now $30+ for fill some papers is not enought yeah right

[blacklabel]

This isn't a matter of dishonesty, it's a matter of you being frustrated with him increasing the cost of his services. Do you get pissed off at McDonald's when they raise the price of a sandwich?

[Bailey Guns]

There's a lot more to it than just filling in the paperwork. So how many guns have you bought from this guy?

And by the way....I'm not a dealer. I haven't been a dealer for over 2 years. But I have run a small business for many years.

[colo-pr]

I don't understand this statement If an FFL dealer is going to have to SEND a gun to another FFL dealer, the sending FFL must still enter the gun in his/her book as a receipt and a disposition. May not need a BGC but still has to run it through his books..... Isn't that correct?

Ok, send and receive have a Fee (i understand that) but for send NO NEED a Background Check and for this reason NOT have anything to do with the imposed fee by the goverment. If you want to raise your cost MINIMUM dont do it in the same week of the goverment imposed fee, for me is Ethic.

and if their wife is sick $5-$10 box more dont help in anything...

[colo-pr]

I don't understand why an FFL holder would be expected to go to the trouble of shipping off anything for free, no matter what laws are in the pipeline. I guess I've never not paid to send a firearm.

my gosh!!! who say "for Free"?????/ i never say this

[colo-pr]

Curious, colo-pr...how many guns have you purchased from this FFL?

i said in my original post, more than 15 in a year period.

[Dingo]

Bailey... you had/have an FFL, right? (Think I may have wandered thru your shop in metropolitan Bailey many moons ago.) I agree - I get tired of the FFL bashing threads as well. Maybe you should post a thread talking about the nitty gritty of what an FFL has do during an xfer of the different types. I've always heard it's a headache - raising awareness from the FFL's side of what all goes into it, might make people think about it from the gun store's perspective.

[keylay31]

I had my FFL Dealer for more than a year and transfer maybe 15 or more guns with him but today when i visit him for SEND 2 guns for my surprise he raise the Fees to $30 and for me this is not honest because if some holders are helping us with the Imposed Government fee of $10 with low Transfer fees why this holder grow his fees? the Bill/Law dont impose any fee for SEND a gun. Im my opinion he took advantage of the recent issues for have more earning, for this reason i decide to pick a new one, any recommendations in the Springs area?


Yes, the FFL Transfer Fee works in both ways, i know that for years BUT the Fee of $10 Imposed from the Bill/Law NOT!!! and take advantage of this is NOT honest!!!


Do it in times with the Goverment Imposed Fees YES, is not Honest.

I dont say the name of the place to be Ethic BUT at the same time is not honest, for this reason i decide to change, is my money and i decide when i want to change!


A littlebit of Ethic is not do it at the same time of the other Fee, of course, ALL FFL Holders be defends themselves (is obvious) but if people can live with $15 and also i saw another Holders that devide the Goverment Fee between the Holder and the Client, but NO, now $30+ for fill some papers is not enought yeah right


Ok, send and receive have a Fee (i understand that) but for send NO NEED a Background Check and for this reason NOT have anything to do with the imposed fee by the goverment. If you want to raise your cost MINIMUM dont do it in the same week of the goverment imposed fee, for me is Ethic.

and if their wife is sick $5-$10 box more dont help in anything...

Am I having a seizure or something... [panic] Under Brady don't you have to be a U.S. Citizen to buy/own guns?

[colo-pr]

This isn't a matter of dishonesty, it's a matter of you being frustrated with him increasing the cost of his services. Do you get pissed off at McDonald's when they raise the price of a sandwich?

McDonalds give services?

Definetly you are an FFL holder and you will defend any holder, no matter charge a $100

[mrghost]

Why don't you send the gun yourself? You don't need an FFL to ship, just to receive.

Sometimes you do as the receiving FFL won't accept shipment from a non-FFL.

[Bailey Guns]

i said in my original post, more than 15 in a year period.

No, you said "transferred". I asked how many guns have you bought from this dealer?

[Blockhead]

Sometimes you do as the receiving FFL won't accept shipment from a non-FFL.

Good point, but fairly rare in my experience.

[blacklabel]

McDonalds give services?

Definetly you are an FFL holder and you will defend any holder, no matter charge a $100

Do you make your own hamburger there? Your FFL felt his time was worth more than he was charging so he increased it. Find another FFL and quit while you're ahead.

[colo-pr]

I dont understand why the alarm and why cannot understand my point, is incredible, i will try to explain for the last time:

If you are a FFL Holder and you want to rise your fees you are in all of your right, is your business and you put the fee that you want, people can use your service or go away, BUUUUUUUUTTTTT in this days when ALL of us are so angry and frustrated with all stupid bills and laws and this bill/law of the additional Government Fee happens IS NOT A MOMENT, is ethic, is the same this that this people that sell an Bushy AR in 3k, is the same thing, is NOT ethic, is take advantage of the situation, MINIMUM do it months later.

if anyone continue without understand me, im sorry. Anyway is my opinion and i dont expect that all people think like me, less if is a FFL Holder. Anyway too many friends are send me PM's about honest FFL Holders, thanks guys.

[colo-pr]

No, you said "transferred". I asked how many guns have you bought from this dealer?

is an FFL holder, i never say that is a store or place to sell guns

[DaBull]

OP: You don't like your dealer's fees for transfers and mailing? Ask for a cheaper dealer and go somewhere else. Your mistake was asserting that the fee increase made the dealer dishonest.

[Bailey Guns]

Bailey... you had/have an FFL, right? (Think I may have wandered thru your shop in metropolitan Bailey many moons ago.) I agree - I get tired of the FFL bashing threads as well. Maybe you should post a thread talking about the nitty gritty of what an FFL has do during an xfer of the different types. I've always heard it's a headache - raising awareness from the FFL's side of what all goes into it, might make people think about it from the gun store's perspective.

It's been posted on here numerous times by me and others. There's more to completing a transfer than filling out the 4473. The dealer has to:



Accurately complete the form
Check the accuracy of the customer completed portion
Log the gun as an acquistion
Log the disposition of the gun
Complete the background check
Maintain the paperwork for many years
Make the paperwork available to inspecting law enforcement officers
Potentially deal with traces that might result from the transaction
Comply with all local, state and federal laws
Purchase the equipment to complete the BGC...phone, computer, etc...
Pay the bills to power those computers
Pay employees to assist (and supervise them to insure they do their jobs correctly)
Pay for FFL licensing fees
Pay local business license fees
File tax forms on sales, including tax-exempt sales like BGCs
Pay accountants and tax preparers
Pay rent/mortgage
Deal with PITA, whiny customers who bitch about how much it costs to do all of this

[Bailey Guns]

is an FFL holder, i never say that is a store or place to sell guns

If he's got an FFL it's a place to sell guns. So I'm guessing you've never bought any guns from this dealer. Asking the guy to order you a gun here and there would go a long way to maintaining a healthy business/customer relationship.

When I had my store I charged $25. If someone even occasionally bought guns from me I often did transfers for that person for free or a much smaller fee of $10. The store I deal with most often now does my transfers, even multiples, for free. Of course I also buy things there and don't bitch about prices. If I wanna buy it and it's a fair price, even if it's a little more than what I consider fair, I'll buy it. Because I know I'm saving some money in the long run with $0 transfers.

[keylay31]

Deal with PITA, whiny customers who bitch about how much it costs to do all of this



+1 [ROFL1]

On a completely unrelated note, I'm really looking forward to post-July 1st... I will probably become one of those PITAs. (We all will).

[colo-pr]

It's been posted on here numerous times by me and others. There's more to completing a transfer than filling out the 4473. The dealer has to:



Accurately complete the form
Check the accuracy of the customer completed portion
Log the gun as an acquistion
Log the disposition of the gun
Complete the background check
Maintain the paperwork for many years
Make the paperwork available to inspecting law enforcement officers
Potentially deal with traces that might result from the transaction
Comply with all local, state and federal laws
Purchase the equipment to complete the BGC...phone, computer, etc...
Pay the bills to power those computers
Pay employees to assist (and supervise them to insure they do their jobs correctly)
Pay for FFL licensing fees
Pay local business license fees
File tax forms on sales, including tax-exempt sales like BGCs
Pay accountants and tax preparers
Pay rent/mortgage
Deal with PITA, whiny customers who bitch about how much it costs to do all of this



wooooooowwwwww, a lootttt of work! my gosh, this is more work than build a house, bahhhhh.

Again, i NEVER say that need to do it for free, i explain what i try it to say some post ago.

[Bailey Guns]

OP: You don't like your dealer's fees for transfers and mailing? Ask for a cheaper dealer and go somewhere else. Your mistake was asserting that the fee increase made the dealer dishonest.

Exactly.

[Bailey Guns]

wooooooowwwwww, a lootttt of work! my gosh, this is more work than build a house, bahhhhh.

It's painfully obvious now you don't have a clue, and you don't care to be informed, about what it really takes to do transfer. You just wanna piss and moan because your time and effort are obviously more valuable than the dealer's.

[colo-pr]

ok guys, i dont want to lost more time with this stupid thing, anyway now i have a list of honest people to do business, again, for me, for my opinion and the opinion of a lots more raise Fees at the same time of the Imposed Government fee is NOT honest, is taking advantage.

go ahead and start selling Hi Cap Mags at $60, go ahead...SAME PEOPLE!!!

[Bailey Guns]

http://c11045744.r44.cf2.rackcdn.com/andrus-whiny-baby.jpg

[Great-Kazoo]

Am I having a seizure or something... [panic] Under Brady don't you have to be a U.S. Citizen to buy/own guns?

COLO= Colorado
PR= Puerto Rico. SO ,COLO-PR is from both places.
Geography The U.S. and the smaller outlying islands, Like GU= GUAM. US Territories.

AND NO you don't have to be a U.S. Citizen to purchase a gun.

[colo-pr]

OP: You don't like your dealer's fees for transfers and mailing? Ask for a cheaper dealer and go somewhere else. Your mistake was asserting that the fee increase made the dealer dishonest.

ehhhh, this is not what i trying to do with this topic?

[colo-pr]

Am I having a seizure or something... [panic] Under Brady don't you have to be a U.S. Citizen to buy/own guns?

im trying to not understand that this is Racism Comment. You dont learn in the school that people of Puerto Rico are US Citizens like you? and have the same rights like you?

[colo-pr]

COLO= Colorado
PR= Puerto Rico. SO ,COLO-PR is from both places.
Geography The U.S. and the smaller outlying islands, Like GU= GUAM. US Territories.

AND NO you don't have to be a U.S. Citizen to purchase a gun.

ehhhhh, people of US Territories ARE US CITIZENS WHEN BORN!!!!!!

[hurley842002]

Am I having a seizure or something... [panic] Under Brady don't you have to be a U.S. Citizen to buy/own guns?

Wow foolishness at it's finest...

[sellersm]

If he's got an FFL it's a place to sell guns. So I'm guessing you've never bought any guns from this dealer. Asking the guy to order you a gun here and there would go a long way to maintaining a healthy business/customer relationship.

When I had my store I charged $25. If someone even occasionally bought guns from me I often did transfers for that person for free or a much smaller fee of $10. The store I deal with most often now does my transfers, even multiples, for free. Of course I also buy things there and don't bitch about prices. If I wanna buy it and it's a fair price, even if it's a little more than what I consider fair, I'll buy it. Because I know I'm saving some money in the long run with $0 transfers.

Just to clarify, the business in question in this thread isn't a "normal" gun store. He's pretty much just a FFL. He might sell firearms, but it's not really advertised as such. His main business is made in a different product line...

[Great-Kazoo]

ehhhhh, people of US Territories ARE US CITIZENS WHEN BORN!!!!!!

I Know, You Know, but some folks do not realize there are US citizens who are born somewhere else that the 50 United States. if you confuse them it gets worse. I mentioned the non-us citizens because you don't need to be a US citizen to purchase a firearm. Since the poster was not aware of that info either.



Algunas personas no tienen ni idea Si tienen que pensar más allá de los 50 Estados confunde

little rough on the espanoal / puerto ricano



Mi tía y tío eran de Río Piedras

[Boulderar15]

I'm not an FFL, and I know little about it.

Seems to me that we have a pissing match on our hands and we all know how those end up... Customer whining about FFL. FFL whining about customer.

IMO the below are legitimate things involved with a transfer. I'm putting guesstimates on these. I guess it would differ if you were using a computer or physical form.






Accurately complete the form. 1-2 minutes
Check the accuracy of the customer completed portion 10 seconds
Log the gun as an acquistion 1 minute
Log the disposition of the gun 1 minute
Complete the background check. I'd change 'complete' to ' submit' 2 minutes?? Not sure on this one.
Maintain the paperwork for many years. No time, very little cost. You should be keeping your biz records anyways so not a big deal..?
Make the paperwork available to inspecting law enforcement office
Potentially deal with traces that might result from the transaction



6 minutes? That fair for actual time spent? Lets just say it is 10 minutes. At $30 for a transfer you are valuing your time at $180/hour?!? Seems excessive for actual time spent.

These have nothing to do with a transfers. When you decide to run a business you decide to do these anyway. Especially dealing with the PITA customers.





Comply with all local, state and federal laws
Purchase the equipment to complete the BGC...phone, computer, etc...
Pay the bills to power those computers
Pay employees to assist (and supervise them to insure they do their jobs correctly)
Pay for FFL licensing fees
Pay local business license fees
File tax forms on sales, including tax-exempt sales like BGCs
Pay accountants and tax preparers
Pay rent/mortgage
Deal with PITA, whiny customers who bitch about how much it costs to do all of this



Beautiful thing is that the market will ultimately establish the price. He raised it. You are moving your biz.

[Great-Kazoo]

I'm not an FFL, and I know little about it.

Seems to me that we have a pissing match on our hands and we all know how those end up... Customer whining about FFL. FFL whining about customer.

IMO the below are legitimate things involved with a transfer. I'm putting guesstimates on these. I guess it would differ if you were using a computer or physical form.



6 minutes? That fair for actual time spent? Lets just say it is 10 minutes. At $30 for a transfer you are valuing your time at $180/hour?!? Seems excessive for actual time spent.

These have nothing to do with a transfers. When you decide to run a business you decide to do these anyway. Especially dealing with the PITA customers.



Beautiful thing is that the market will ultimately establish the price. He raised it. You are moving your biz.

Take the 10 minutes which you really low balled, multiply it by say 3. deduct the time spent of say 30 minutes, not including the actual paperwork involved, you know the log book and 4473 info. You spend by your Guestimate 10 min per (way off) take in to account everything being done in a store and that 10 min ( again low balled) detracts from the operation of the business.

Now with that being said, real time per transfer varies. You have customer A who OOPS put the state where county should be [new 4473] then forgets to sign back of form, hand it back. While doing the paperwork customer B ask you a question, the phone rings [must take call] as it's one of your vendors with a back order that was screwed up, etc etc etc

You remind me of a client who assumed because my hrly rate was $125 i was making out like a bandit. Once i explained that hrly was when working, being on commission, no income. Divide the $125 x 4 hours and no other work that week i made after shop rental a whopping $6.75 an hr,.
Same for transfers, that "money" gets eaten by everything else you put on hold to "get it right" An ATF audit catches a few of those and GFL.

[Boba Fett]

If you're in the military and stationed at or near Fort Carson, the Outdoor Recreation Complex on post offers an FFL transfer service.

Sent from my ZTE V768 using Tapatalk 2

[10mm-man]

I think saying he is "Dishonest" because he raised the price is the problem. I raised my price 1st of the year, so am I one of the ones, who is honest because I didn't do it the same week as the GOV? Maybe he is taking advantage of the situation, isn't that called capitalism?

Or maybe it is the title: Any Honest FFL Holders in Colorado Springs? (http://www.ar-15.co/threads/96405-Any-Honest-FFL-Holders-in-Colorado-Springs)


That insinuates he is dishonest, and come to find out it is just you crying because he raised the price. I would have to say your more dishonest than he is at this point! Were not 100% socialist yet and it is still OK to raise the price of items or services.

[keylay31]

im trying to not understand that this is Racism Comment. You dont learn in the school that people of Puerto Rico are US Citizens like you? and have the same rights like you?


Wow foolishness at it's finest...

[fail] I love how people just pull the racism card right off the bat... I make one comment about someone who happens to be a minority and suddenly instead of the comment being about him, it's about the whole race. Newsflash: I have lived in Mayaguez, Puerto Rico, went to high school there, and have friends and family still there. I did not put together the colo-pr connection and know very well the details of Puerto Rico's political situation. Puerto Ricans do not have the same rights as a person born in the United States in all instances, for example, Puerto Ricans do not get electoral votes for President. So you can put the racism card back in your pocket to pull out against someone else... It's hard to be racist against yourself.

What I was commenting on was the extremely hard to decipher text and what is nicely summed up here:


It's painfully obvious now you don't have a clue, and you don't care to be informed, about what it really takes to do transfer. You just wanna piss and moan because your time and effort are obviously more valuable than the dealer's.

Now that that's out of the way...I don't want to high jack this thread, but I felt that I must respond publicly. If any further discussion is needed, feel free to PM me.

[brokenscout]

[Pop]

[colo-pr]

[fail] I love how people just pull the racism card right off the bat... I make one comment about someone who happens to be a minority and suddenly instead of the comment being about him, it's about the whole race. Newsflash: I have lived in Mayaguez, Puerto Rico, went to high school there, and have friends and family still there. I did not put together the colo-pr connection and know very well the details of Puerto Rico's political situation. Puerto Ricans do not have the same rights as a person born in the United States in all instances, for example, Puerto Ricans do not get electoral votes for President. So you can put the racism card back in your pocket to pull out against someone else... It's hard to be racist against yourself.

What I was commenting on was the extremely hard to decipher text and what is nicely summed up here:



Now that that's out of the way...I don't want to high jack this thread, but I felt that I must respond publicly. If any further discussion is needed, feel free to PM me.

1- if not is racism what is the intention of your first comment? I don't find any positive on it. Anyway I said "I don't want to think" anyway if your comment are not a racist one good for you.

2- live in PR until high school and later in Mayaguez and don't know about our rights?

3- vote for the president? Trust me, this is the last thing that people living in PR want to do, with the poor candidates that US have forget it. BUT, I'm talking about rights, in PR US don't conduct elections for the president but if you live in main land like me and thousands more you can vote for the president, and If you don't have the right like you said why I can vote here?

Anyway, I don't want to continue discussing stupid things in this topic, this topic have the same effect that have the Republican senators trying to explain to the Democrats Senators in the Capitol about 2nd emmendment = LOSTING TIME!!!!!!

[Eddie]

Ok first post so I hope not to offend. I am looking for a fair priced Ffl for a transfer.

[Dingo]

Eddie: there's a section on here specifically for FFLs, but I will happily plug for Frank M. of "Let's Make A Deal Pawn And Loan" in the Springs. He's one of those rarities as a honest pawn shop owner, an honest gun guy, and was charging $15 for a transfer the last time I did it. (A few years ago)

[CapLock]

Better way to ask this time, but it won't matter someone with nothing better to do will be along shortly.

[def90]

I had my FFL Dealer for more than a year and transfer maybe 15 or more guns with him but today when i visit him for SEND 2 guns for my surprise he raise the Fees to $30 and for me this is not honest because if some holders are helping us with the Imposed Government fee of $10 with low Transfer fees why this holder grow his fees? the Bill/Law dont impose any fee for SEND a gun. Im my opinion he took advantage of the recent issues for have more earning, for this reason i decide to pick a new one, any recommendations in the Springs area?

Why do you need an FL to "Send" guns? Anyone can send a gun as long as it is going to a FFL on the receiving end or you are sending it to yourself.

[def90]

Sometimes you do as the receiving FFL won't accept shipment from a non-FFL.

By law though they are wrong.

[Bailey Guns]

There is no law that requires an FFL to receive a firearm from a non-licensed person. The law allows it, but doesn't require it.

[sneakerd]

Thank you Bailey Guns for all of your reasoned and reasonable comments in this thread.

[Hoser]

Ok first post so I hope not to offend. I am looking for a fair priced Ffl for a transfer.

Whistling Pines Gun Club. The indoor range over by Peterson AFB.