Any Attorneys out there?

[mdflem51]

Is it legal for individuals to cross the state line and conduct a private transaction? Hypothetically does is matter if the inanimate object being sold is a bicycle,baseball cards , long gun or a handgun, if no federal laws are being violated?

Please gentlemen..I`m looking for a legal opinion..armchair Matlock`s please refrain.1229 is unenforceable,and I`m looking for who may have standing to challenge it.

[Ronin13]

Nevermind- face to face no law against it.
ETA: Read this:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

[TFOGGER]

Reading the language in the above cited USC sections, would anything prevent one from establishing a corporation in say, Wyoming for the purpose of purchasing firearms from a private party in that state, as long as the firearm is sold to the corporation or LLC? And as a board member of that corporation, would anything prevent the transport of a corporately owned firearm to another state?

[Great-Kazoo]

Spend the money and sit down with an attorney. This way your shit isn't all over the web, PRIOR TO anything that may or may not transpire

[Circuits]

Is it legal for individuals to cross the state line and conduct a private transaction? Hypothetically does is matter if the inanimate object being sold is a bicycle,baseball cards , long gun or a handgun, if no federal laws are being violated?

Please gentlemen..I`m looking for a legal opinion..armchair Matlock`s please refrain.1229 is unenforceable,and I`m looking for who may have standing to challenge it.

For firearms, it is not legal and hasn't been since GCA 1968 went into effect. FTF firearms transactions without an FFL involved are only legal in a person's state of residence, with another resident of that state, and if the state's law allow it.

[rocktot]

Been listening to John Caldera alot, and it seems you can get around some of the new restrictions legally just by going to Wyoming? Is this being talked about? Not really sure I was half asleep.

[Gunner]

Not sure that would work since it is crossing state line. And you are not a resident. I think the law now requires an FFL for that anyway

[mb504]

That would be illegal today and after July 1st 2013.

[theGinsue]

Merged

[spqrzilla]

What an incoherent thread.

What the heck are people trying to ask?

[Great-Kazoo]

What an incoherent thread.

What the heck are people trying to ask?

The OP is asking for an attorney to validate his going in to an adjoining state to buy a firearm FTF, with no 4473 paperwork. Which if the OP was able to do a search on line and or go to the ATF web site, would have given him the answer. Instead he's hoping an attorney will give him the answer he wants, not what federal law IS.

[Firehaus]

What about inheriting a gun from a relative out of state? Do you need to have it transferred through an FFL here to legally bring it into the state?

[Great-Kazoo]

What about inheriting a gun from a relative out of state? Do you need to have it transferred through an FFL here to legally bring it into the state?

DO A SEARCH, JEEZUS.


Advanced Search (http://www.ar-15.co/search.php)

I'll let HBar provide the LINK[s] to this beaten to death question.

[Circuits]

What about inheriting a gun from a relative out of state? Do you need to have it transferred through an FFL here to legally bring it into the state?

Bequest is special, and doesn't require an FFL - unless state laws require it.

[Firehaus]

Thanks for the info.

[spqrzilla]

Inheriting is an exception, but its actually narrow. You have to go to the state of the executor / personal representative and pick it up.

[spqrzilla]

The OP is asking for an attorney to validate his going in to an adjoining state to buy a firearm FTF, with no 4473 paperwork. Which if the OP was able to do a search on line and or go to the ATF web site, would have given him the answer. Instead he's hoping an attorney will give him the answer he wants, not what federal law IS.

Thanks for the translation ... I guess.

[funkymonkey1111]

retain an ABA accredited attorney



what's an ABA accredited attorney?

[spqrzilla]

what's an ABA accredited attorney?Meaningless. That's what.

[funkymonkey1111]

American Bar Association

Basically, it's a monopoly. ABA accredits only a select number of schools (2 in colorado) so that only a few number of attorneys can turn out - and thus, they all can charge $250 an hour. Beautiful system right? The only business where monopoly is legal is the legal business. (Little secret- those online law degrees are useless, you cannot pass the BAR with one nor become an attorney in virtually every State in the union)

do you mean a graduate from an ABA accredited law school?

[CO Hugh]

Anybody on this forum who hires a lawyer who is a member of the ABA, is a fool. You are sending your money to a fiercly anti-gun organziation. I refuse to pay dues to the ABA or the CO Bar Association.

Hire a lawyer who is a member of the federalist society.

[spqrzilla]

American Bar Association

Basically, it's a monopoly. ABA accredits only a select number of schools (2 in colorado) so that only a few number of attorneys can turn out - and thus, they all can charge $250 an hour. Beautiful system right? The only business where monopoly is legal is the legal business. (Little secret- those online law degrees are useless, you cannot pass the BAR with one nor become an attorney in virtually every State in the union)

Not entirely true, there are ways around the ABA accreditation issue, but the idea that there is a shortage of attorneys is utterly f'ing laughable. Someone hasn't been paying attention to the reality of the legal profession. Law schools have been pumping out more attorneys than there really is work for for decades.

[BlasterBob]

The OP is asking for an attorney to validate his going in to an adjoining state to buy a firearm FTF, with no 4473 paperwork. Which if the OP was able to do a search on line and or go to the ATF web site, would have given him the answer. Instead he's hoping an attorney will give him the answer he wants, not what federal law IS.

Perhaps the OP was asking something in line like the following:.

Say two CO residents drive down to Raton, NM for a shooting match of some type. One of these shooters is doing horrible with his shooting iron and tells the other guy that he's ready to give the damn gun a toss. The other CO shooter tells his fellow CO guy that he'd take the apparent piss poor gun and maybe swap a similar firearm or something else for it. If they were to make that complete swap while across the NM State line, then who'd know the difference. Better make sure the guy you are giving/swapping with is a REAL FRIEND and not a snitch. I am not suggesting this nor am I condoning it, just mentioning this possible remote situation to gather thoughts/opinions..........

One scenario would take place between now and June 30th and the second scenario if it were to take place after the July 1st BCG law effective date. Again, I don't want anyone think I am mentioning this to promote ANY illegal activity so do NOT read that into the above.

[BlasterBob]

Thought sure that by now, SOMEONE would comment on my post above.

[spqrzilla]

Nothing to comment upon. The scenario you describe would violate Colorado law on July 1. The persons if discovered would be prosecutable.

[Great-Kazoo]

Thought sure that by now, SOMEONE would comment on my post above.


Nothing to comment upon. The scenario you describe would violate Colorado law on July 1. The persons if discovered would be prosecutable.

Ditto. Once someone sees or knows of a law being broken, you have the potential to be an accessory before the fact. With knowledge of a crime but failed to report it. Some of the shit i read on line i change the page asap.

[BlasterBob]

Nothing to comment upon. The scenario you describe would violate Colorado law on July 1. The persons if discovered would be prosecutable.

OK for the violation when the new July 1st law going into effect especially since that new law would be circumvented but what about between NOW and June 30th?

[BlasterBob]

Ditto. Once someone sees or knows of a law being broken, you have the potential to be an accessory before the fact. With knowledge of a crime but failed to report it. Some of the shit i read on line i change the page asap.

Yet, some of that "shit" that we sometimes read on the internet may just make some person aware of the fact that something that they themselves had been contemplating doing is actually illegal and may just steer them away from the planned action and save them doing some serious time. Nothing wrong with trying to make people aware of some of the pit falls that they could/should be a aware of.

[Ronin13]

Ditto. Once someone sees or knows of a law being broken, you have the potential to be an accessory before the fact. With knowledge of a crime but failed to report it. Some of the shit i read on line i change the page asap.


Yet, some of that "shit" that we sometimes read on the internet may just make some person aware of the fact that something that they themselves had been contemplating doing is actually illegal and may just steer them away from the planned action and save them doing some serious time. Nothing wrong with trying to make people aware of some of the pit falls that they could/should be a aware of.
http://xangam.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/MustBeTrue.jpg

[spqrzilla]

"Its not easy being green" - Yoda

[spqrzilla]

foxtrot, if you think that law schools limit enrollment, you are simply a clown. Granted one with a foul mouth, but a clown.

[spqrzilla]

Paul Campos writes on the topic of how law schools graduate more lawyers than the industry can absorb last year (http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/2012/01/why-people-dont-get-jobs-as-lawyers.html).

[Ronin13]

Irving....
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4126/5192221149_9558ae40b1_z.jpg
Is spqrzilla an attorney, or are you being sarcastic?

[Great-Kazoo]

Irving....
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4126/5192221149_9558ae40b1_z.jpg
Is spqrzilla an attorney, or are you being sarcastic?

No he's not. Some like to keep a Low Profile.

FWIW: There are an easy 1/2 + dozen LE's here too. You want me to out them for ya?

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

Ditto. Once someone sees or knows of a law being broken, you have the potential to be an accessory before the fact. With knowledge of a crime but failed to report it. Some of the shit i read on line i change the page asap.

Why? Once it is downloaded to your browser, it isn't like there is a timer on it. You saw some random knuckleheads spouting on the internet. You have no responsibility to anyone. What am I missing?

[Ronin13]

No he's not. Some like to keep a Low Profile.

FWIW: There are an easy 1/2 + dozen LE's here too. You want me to out them for ya?
I see what you did there... [Beer]

Why? Once it is downloaded to your browser, it isn't like there is a timer on it. You saw some random knuckleheads spouting on the internet. You have no responsibility to anyone. What am I missing?
Dude, it's on the internet, you mean it's not true? [LOL]

[Great-Kazoo]

Why? Once it is downloaded to your browser, it isn't like there is a timer on it. You saw some random knuckleheads spouting on the internet. You have no responsibility to anyone. What am I missing?

Knowledge of a Potential Crime.
There was a person who lent their vehicle to another person. That person "had an idea" the borrower of said car was going to commit a crime. next day investigators trace owner of car and inform them their car was used in a crime. Deny, Deny, Deny, UNTIL the owner was told it was used in commission of a murder. AND as their vehicle was used they are now looking at the death penalty.
WAIT IT GETS BETTER












SINCE LIKE AN IDIOT. The Owner, tweaker she was, had told the investigators she "Thought" they were going to rob someone AND asked her if they could use her car!. Stupid cunt THOUGHT???
Knowledge of a crime prior to or after and "covering it up or Not contacting LE" about it, put them along side the ones who offed a family member. They might as well have been there with them. Granted that is CA and all of them rolled on each other, faster than Bloomberg writing checks.

REMEMBER HERE IN CO on the side of utility trucks EYES AND EARS. !@#$%^ they even have pictures of an Eye & Ear for those less fluent in ENGLISH.
SEE IT, REPORT IT.

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

Dude, it's on the internet, you mean it's not true? [LOL]

http://www.dowackado.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/tumblr_md1gel5UdO1qe1ey2.png


Comment ça va? :D

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

Knowledge of a Potential Crime.
There was a person who lent their vehicle to another person. That person "had an idea" the borrower of said car was going to commit a crime. next day investigators trace owner of car and inform them their car was used in a crime. Deny, Deny, Deny, UNTIL the owner was told it was used in commission of a murder. AND as their vehicle was used they are now looking at the death penalty.
WAIT IT GETS BETTER

SINCE LIKE AN IDIOT. The Owner, tweaker she was, had told the investigators she "Thought" they were going to rob someone AND asked her if they could use her car!. Stupid cunt THOUGHT???
Knowledge of a crime prior to or after and "covering it up or Not contacting LE" about it, put them along side the ones who offed a family member. They might as well have been there with them. Granted that is CA and all of them rolled on each other, faster than Bloomberg writing checks.

REMEMBER HERE IN CO on the side of utility trucks EYES AND EARS. !@#$%^ they even have pictures of an Eye & Ear for those less fluent in ENGLISH.
SEE IT, REPORT IT.

I'm following you on owner/tweaker and the borrower. I'm still not with you on how this impacts you the third party drive-by internet surfer, assuming you are neither one. (?)

So, this little back and forth is going on, online, on a website you may be surfing. Let's say through discovery I get the data logs that said you downloaded the page. How do I prove whether you actually read it or not?
Unless you are commenting directly on the activity in question, I don't. I'm betting everyone here surfs multiple forums multiple times a day. I'm also betting most folks don't read every word of every thread. I sure as hell don't, but my browser would show that I looked at a lot of threads. In fact, I'm in and out of a lot of threads in about 2 sentences if it doesn't capture my attention. So they are going to prosecute everyone who may or may not have seen said discussion online?

Even if you genuinely read it thoroughly, do you know the folks to report or are they largely anonymous to you?
Likewise, can you be expected to report every troll you come across? Of course not, so even if genuinely interested how do you know it isn't that?

[Great-Kazoo]

I'm following you on owner/tweaker and the borrower. I'm still not with you on how this impacts you the third party drive-by internet surfer, assuming you are neither one. (?)

So, this little back and forth is going on, online, on a website you may be surfing. Let's say through discovery I get the data logs that said you downloaded the page. How do I prove whether you actually read it or not?
Unless you are commenting directly on the activity in question, I don't. I'm betting everyone here surfs multiple forums multiple times a day. I'm also betting most folks don't read every word of every thread. I sure as hell don't, but my browser would show that I looked at a lot of threads. In fact, I'm in and out of a lot of threads in about 2 sentences if it doesn't capture my attention. So they are going to prosecute everyone who may or may not have seen said discussion online?

Even if you genuinely read it thoroughly, do you know the folks to report or are they largely anonymous to you?
Likewise, can you be expected to report every troll you come across? Of course not, so even if genuinely interested how do you know it isn't that?

Prosecute No, intimidate, threaten them, their family and "mention CPS" if they have kids. Shit there are some board members here who would fold over a parking ticket, let alone mention of a federal indictment.

The mods were busy at one point reining in the "ramblings". and rightly so.

You get someone who is a member of any gun forum especially a newer member (like you for instance) who does a McVeigh and bet your house payment, the feds will fine comb each and every post and who replied and or "viewed" said post.
What's that saying? CONSPIRACY .................WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE, WHY.
After OKC, ANY person with ties to a " militia" forum was contacted by the feds. The guys who were on Boyles radio show were "visited / contacted" numerous times by the feds.

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

Wow.

[Bailey Guns]

AHHHHHHHH! I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE.... I did it! I shot JFK. I was only 2 but...I did it!



...and I used steel-cased ammo.

[spqrzilla]

Well, thank god that's settled Bailey Guns.

[Irving]

Sorry spqrzilla, that was shitty of me.

[TFOGGER]

I provided the rifle to Bailey....although I wasn't even born until 2 1/2 years later.

[spqrzilla]

I provided the rifle to Bailey....although I wasn't even born until 2 1/2 years later.
Time Travel. What can't it do?

[Ronin13]

Time Travel. What can't it do?
I'll tell you what it can do, and why I'll never go through with it, time travel gives you parkinson's! [ROFL1]

[Great-Kazoo]

Time Travel. What can't it do?

Get a R elected to office, legally.

[spqrzilla]

Book "The Lawyer Bubble" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0465058779/thevolocons0d-20/).

[funkymonkey1111]

Book "The Lawyer Bubble" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0465058779/thevolocons0d-20/).

now hold on--if this "bubble" indeed existed, wouldn't lawyers be charging $45 per hour?

[brand4]

When you ask for free advice, it is normally worth its face value.
When you are asked by the investigating officer on what basis you acted and you tell him "I got it off the internet", you have already said more than you should have and given them an insight into your MO. If you are unsure about a legal issue, consult a real attorney before you take action (its cheaper). If you decide not to take their advice, then you will have their number handy after the arrest.
(forgivness is easier than permission, does not apply in these cases)

[Great-Kazoo]

When you ask for free advice, it is normally worth its face value.
When you are asked by the investigating officer on what basis you acted and you tell him "I got it off the internet", you have already said more than you should have and given them an insight into your MO. If you are unsure about a legal issue, consult a real attorney before you take action (its cheaper). If you decide not to take their advice, then you will have their number handy after the arrest.
(forgivness is easier than permission, does not apply in these cases)


Also remember that saying Innocent till proven Guilty
Only Applies in Court.

[spqrzilla]

now hold on--if this "bubble" indeed existed, wouldn't lawyers be charging $45 per hour?

Sometimes they effectively do. A lot of people don't understand how long an attorney actually works to get a real billable hour for one thing, for another, many attorneys have overhead that is included in the hourly rate, including staff.

But the reality is that there is a lot of price pressure on attorneys in a lot of industries, and from a lot of sources like legal group plans, online retail legal forms sites, etc. I bill out my time at $175 an hour (plus or minus ...) nominally, but take my word for it, I'm not collecting $385K a year in billables ... ($175 x 2200 hours a year).