View Full Version : AK47 vs AKM vs AK74
Just so you know this is not a which one is better thread; that out of the way...
How do you tell, aesthetically speaking, which one is which? Add in all of the variants and countries that have made them, and I'm finding this task difficult unless it's explicitly labeled. Are there any tips that can be used to quickly identify these rifles from one another?
AKM is the modernized version of the AK-47. Both are 7.62x39mm, but the modernized included stamped receivers and some thinner gauge metal. The AK-74 is chambered in 5.45 mm. That's about the extent of what I know about the differences.
AKM is the modernized version of the AK-47. Both are 7.62x39mm, but the modernized included stamped receivers and some thinner gauge metal. The AK-74 is chambered in 5.45 mm. That's about the extent of what I know about the differences.
About the extent of my knowledge base too Dave. Just don;t know how one can tell the difference between a 47 and AKM when assembled as you cannot measure the thickness of the steel.
blacklabel
04-01-2013, 20:31
Paging Rachel. He'll school you.
Paging Rachel. He'll school you.
lol +1, thanks!
*edit* to avoid double posting...
Looks like one thing I've noticed is that 47's/AKM's have a gas block that appears to twist or rotate while being set back (towards the breach) from the pins a bit; the 74 is straight and aligned right above where the pins are set, that right?
There is quite a lot of suttle diferences to tell them apart.Probably too long to post in a thread.
Stamped sheetmetal is the akm pattern.The ones before that are milled.aks pattern.Then there is the type1 which also was stamped as well.
One way to tell the difference between countries is the country code stampings and even some countries had multiples for different plants.
Chineese used multiples- /66\ waas one of the most common.
Bulgy used a circle 10 or 21 and also 25-akm,aks and ak74.
Polish used oval 11,and another one which I forget(I think 12? )
the Rommys had an arrow in a triangle sorta like the Russians,somtimes hard to tell apart.
And the Russians used an arrow and a star-one being Tula,and the other being Iszevesk-I get confused which is which.I dont believe that Molot produced any ak's but they did produce mags and that was a shield looking thingy..
As far as East Germany -jreifsch80 can fill you in on that one (probably a page worth :D )
And the Maadis had a T looking thing in a circle with aribic writing.
Theres more but I forget.
I believe the Akforum has a few good write ups on the details of all the markings and differences.
Now wait till you start deciphering the mags and bayonets!!That's a whole 'nother bunch of markings as well!!
palepainter
04-01-2013, 21:22
You will also notice a slight difference in the aroma of cleaning oil corresponding to the country of origin. ;)
And the Maadis had a T looking thing in a circle with aribic writing.
Theres more but I forget.
I believe the Akforum has a few good write ups on the details of all the markings and differences.
Now wait till you start deciphering the mags and bayonets!!That's a whole 'nother bunch of markings as well!!
Yeah, now that you mention it, I've downloaded a pdf someone was kind enough to host over at AKForums. Explains the symbols stamped on the receivers and I used it to decode and translate the Hindi (Hindu?) on my Maadi. Specifically, for Maadi's, The proof stamp is a "T" with a longer horizontal line above the "T" intersecting a circle like you said above, I've seen it also with a 5 & 4 inside the circle, but on the left and right sides (respectively) of the vertical line that makes the "T".
I don't even want to start thinking about the bayonet that AoA send with my kit then... ;)
You will also notice a slight difference in the aroma of cleaning oil corresponding to the country of origin. ;)
The OFFICIAL Rachel Ray sniff test!!!![ROFL3]
You will also notice a slight difference in the aroma of cleaning oil corresponding to the country of origin. ;)My Maadi kit falls in this category for sure! lol
The neat thing about the Egyptians is that at first they used Soviet tooling to make their ak's.And a lot of their early ak's used Soviet wood on them,they just put their own markings on them.
I also noticed a lot of the Egyptian kits with Polish wood on them as well.I believe they basicly used what ever they got a hold of before they started their own production runs.
Do you know, or can you explain, the relationship between Maadi and Steyr and how it affected production? Was there only one plant?
*edit*
Basically, I'm gathering that the rabbit hole goes down much... much further!
Great-Kazoo
04-01-2013, 23:12
Steyr were the bbl's. The maadi's were easy to tell with out even picking them up based off the shitty "paint" [literally] job on them. Worse than original production Arsenal 106's
jreifsch80
04-02-2013, 05:02
The neat thing about the Egyptians is that at first they used Soviet tooling to make their ak's.And a lot of their early ak's used Soviet wood on them,they just put their own markings on them.
I also noticed a lot of the Egyptian kits with Polish wood on them as well.I believe they basicly used what ever they got a hold of before they started their own production runs.
in fact it's not uncommon to find DDR parts on an early egyptian ak (morning everyone) originally the DDR made the crutch folder for the egyptians it's also what the germans used on their MPi-kms from 70-71 before making a better folding stock for their MPI-KMS-72 model
for military models (some commercial ak's will share features and yugo m-70's are loosly based off of type 3 ak47 and the rpk)
ak-47 (type 3), milled receiver (you'll notice lightening cuts on the front sides), threaded barrel installed into receiver (later bulgarians are press and pin 23mm), blocky butt stock, heavier barrel, sling loop at the gas block non-palm swell smooth sided lower handguards, vented gas tube, longer front sight block than akm, 800 meter rear sight leaf, milled mag latch. made by the soviet union and under license by east germany, poland, hungary and bulgaria. also the chinese type 56 milled ak, not sure if it's licensed but is basically a type 3 ak47
akm stamped receiver (look for rivet heads on the side of the receiver, spot weld dimples and magwell dimples), 23mm press and pin barrel trunnion, thinner smoother butt stock, generally has palm swell lower handguards (germany has palm swell wood or 1980 and later have distinct ribbed sided bakelite, early romanian has palm swells later production went to the vertical grip "donky dong" hg) sling loop on the hg retainer, front sight block isn't as long as the type 3, vented gas block non-vented gas tube, stamped mag latch, 1000 meter rear sight leaf (east german akm's and hungarian amd-65 still used an 800m rear sight leaf). produced by the soviet union, east germany, poland, hungary, romania and egypt. (bulgaria never made an akm for domestic military use)
ak74 same as akm but ak74 specifics would be a 22mm press and pin barrel trunnion, slightly different rivet spacing on the rear trunnion, a forked rear trunnion (like late pattern soviet akm but what a different spacing), 90 degree gas block (romanian and super early soviet had 45 degree gas blocks similar to the akm) 24mm integrated threads on the front sight block with a long muzzle brake (romania used 22mm threads), horizontal lightening cuts on the fixed wood stocks, smaller diameter bolt stem and appropriate bolt carrier. made by the soviet union, bulgaria (soviet mid pattern) east germany (soviet mid pattern) romania (soviet mid pattern and akm) poland (tantal is mostly soviet mid pattern but with tantal specific parts on the barrel, selector, gas tube and a modified akm rear trunnion)
i could go into more internal differences but those are the general visible differences.
Great-Kazoo
04-02-2013, 07:07
i could go into more internal differences but those are the general visible differences.
I don't believe it, anyone else??
I don't believe it, anyone else??
Nope-he's holding something back...[Coffee]
LOL, I read that in my head with jreifsch80 only taking one breathe before starting. :) But, don't hold back on my account, I've got a pencil in hand and am taking notes! I've been trying to read all of the stickies little by little over at AKfourms, but after a while they all start to meld together and I feel like I'm not making any progress... Threads like this help me get back on track, or push me in a different direction for a while so I can start to retain more knowledge, so thanks!
Also, I was right with the gas block orientation on the 74's being vertical (or 90 degree as you called it).
*edit*
Oh yeah, I forgot to ask about the spot welds. Does the number of them above the dimple signify anything? Are they the same on left and right? They weld the rails inside the receiver, correct?
Theres realy no rhyme or reason to the amount of spotwelds used exept for ease and quickness of production.
I do 2 spotwelds over the dimple on both sides-on each end of the dimple.It's sufficient enough and strong enough.
I have seen some that have 3-one in the middle of the dimple as well, but its a biatch to do..
jreifsch80
04-04-2013, 09:52
LOL, I read that in my head with jreifsch80 only taking one breathe before starting. :) But, don't hold back on my account, I've got a pencil in hand and am taking notes! I've been trying to read all of the stickies little by little over at AKfourms, but after a while they all start to meld together and I feel like I'm not making any progress... Threads like this help me get back on track, or push me in a different direction for a while so I can start to retain more knowledge, so thanks!
Also, I was right with the gas block orientation on the 74's being vertical (or 90 degree as you called it).
*edit*
Oh yeah, I forgot to ask about the spot welds. Does the number of them above the dimple signify anything? Are they the same on left and right? They weld the rails inside the receiver, correct?
i do three above the right dimple myself since i usually do east german clones, one day i'll do a late 70's mpi-kms-72 clone that has a rivet on the rail like this
http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx5/MPIKMS-72/Bilder10082010040.jpg
That's odd, to say the least,why rivet and weld?
jreifsch80
04-05-2013, 01:07
strengthening for grenades just a fun little nuance.
as far as models off the top of my head (only doing communist era)
russian
ak-47 typeI, typeII, typeIII
AKM
AKMS (AKM underfolder)
AKML (akm with night optic rail)
AK-74
AKS-74 (left side folder AK74)
AKS-74u (left side folder short barrel AK-74 or "krinkov")
AKS-74un (AKS-74u with night optic rail)
east german
MPi-K (typeIII fixed stock) MPi-KS (typeIII underfolder)
MPi-KM (AKM)
MPi-KMS (AKM crutch side folder)
MPi-KMS-72 (AKM wire side folder)
MPi-KMS-72s ("spetzialwerke" short barrel AKM wire folder)
MPi-AK-74/n (AK-74 n is optic rail model)
MPi-AKS-74/n (AK-74 wire folder n is optic rail model)
MPi-AKS-74nk (short barrel ak-74 wirefolder with optic rail)
poland
i'm too lazy to try to remember the weird polish model names so Bob you do this one lol
romania
export name is the "AIM" series
PM md. 63 "AIM" (akm)
PM md. 65 "AIMS" (AKM underfolder but not russian akms pattern)
PM md. 86 "AIMR" (short barrel AKM "Draco" 7.62x39, 5.45x39 and later 5.56x45. early models had unique left side folder later models had wire folders)
PM md. 86 "AIMS-74"(wire folder 5.45x39 closer to AKM pattern than AK-74 pattern)
PM md. 90 (same wire folder as md. 86 otherwise same as md. 63)
Hungary
AK-55 (AK-47 typeIII)
AKM-63 (AKM with metal LHG and vertical grip)
AMD-65 (side folding short barrel AKM-63)
AMP-69 (recoil reducing side folder, grenade spigot)
AMM (AKM)
AMMs (AKMS underfolder)
Bulgarian
No one cares about bulgarian model names since everyone uses their kits as hosts for clones ;)
yugo
i'll do this later im tired lol
Great-Kazoo
04-05-2013, 01:22
That's odd, to say the least,why rivet and weld?
You had to ask didn't you...............................
strengthening for grenades just a fun little nuance.
as far as models off the top of my head (only doing communist era)
russian
ak-47 typeI, typeII, typeIII
AKM
AKMS (AKM underfolder)
AKML (akm with night optic rail)
AK-74
AKS-74 (left side folder AK74)
AKS-74u (left side folder short barrel AK-74 or "krinkov")
AKS-74un (AKS-74u with night optic rail)
east german
MPi-K (typeIII fixed stock) MPi-KS (typeIII underfolder)
MPi-KM (AKM)
MPi-KMS (AKM crutch side folder)
MPi-KMS-72 (AKM wire side folder)
MPi-KMS-72s ("spetzialwerke" short barrel AKM wire folder)
MPi-AK-74/n (AK-74 n is optic rail model)
MPi-AKS-74/n (AK-74 wire folder n is optic rail model)
MPi-AKS-74nk (short barrel ak-74 wirefolder with optic rail)
poland
i'm too lazy to try to remember the weird polish model names so Bob you do this one lol
romania
export name is the "AIM" series
PM md. 63 "AIM" (akm)
PM md. 65 "AIMS" (AKM underfolder but not russian akms pattern)
PM md. 86 "AIMR" (short barrel AKM "Draco" 7.62x39, 5.45x39 and later 5.56x45. early models had unique left side folder later models had wire folders)
PM md. 86 "AIMS-74"(wire folder 5.45x39 closer to AKM pattern than AK-74 pattern)
PM md. 90 (same wire folder as md. 86 otherwise same as md. 63)
Hungary
AK-55 (AK-47 typeIII)
AKM-63 (AKM with metal LHG and vertical grip)
AMD-65 (side folding short barrel AKM-63)
AMP-69 (recoil reducing side folder, grenade spigot)
AMM (AKM)
AMMs (AKMS underfolder)
Bulgarian
No one cares about bulgarian model names since everyone uses their kits as hosts for clones ;)
yugo
i'll do this later im tired lol
Hey, you did the euro',s how about the chi-com's??
That's right "youre tired"
BTW: Bob says that K2 / MK II is smoking...... did i tell ya it has the original box with matching serial #!
jreifsch80
04-05-2013, 01:31
You had to ask didn't you...............................
Hey, you did the euro',s how about the chi-com's??
That's right "youre tired"
BTW: Bob says that K2 / MK II is smoking...... did i tell ya it has the original box with matching serial #!
type 56 chinese ak lol there
so hopefully you'll let me shoot your k2mkII and not just keep it a safe queen haha
Great-Kazoo
04-05-2013, 06:54
type 56 chinese ak lol there
so hopefully you'll let me shoot your k2mkII and not just keep it a safe queen haha
I'm going to work it like an ex, before moving out.
strengthening for grenades just a fun little nuance. Okay that makes sense I guess! /slap
And thanks for the list! [Awesom]
Confirmed that I retained some of the Romanian's types I've been reading up on the few nights. Long story short, I found out my dad purchased one (I think an AIM, sans "donkey kong grip" & "G") in 2004, put 15 rounds through it, then kept it in a safe for 5-6 years (all without telling me...[Mad]). Now, I'm trying to build him a clone, secretly, because he regrets selling it.
I'm curious to read the Yugo list as I haven't started any reading on them, thus have no clue why everything they make is different...
Bulgarian
No one cares about bulgarian model names since everyone uses their kits as hosts for clones ;)
I care :Cool:; only because after I finish this Maadi, I'm going to try my hand at a fixed wood, or plum, milled 74. So I'm guessing everyone using Bulgy's for clone as it's basically an Arsenal and the tolerances are better?
Anyways, thanks for continuing to educate me, it's helping a lot!
Great-Kazoo
04-05-2013, 21:33
Okay that makes sense I guess! /slap
And thanks for the list! [Awesom]
Confirmed that I retained some of the Romanian's types I've been reading up on the few nights. Long story short, I found out my dad purchased one (I think an AIM, sans "donkey kong grip" & "G") in 2004, put 15 rounds through it, then kept it in a safe for 5-6 years (all without telling me...[Mad]). Now, I'm trying to build him a clone, secretly, because he regrets selling it.
I'm curious to read the Yugo list as I haven't started any reading on them, thus have no clue why everything they make is different...
I care :Cool:; only because after I finish this Maadi, I'm going to try my hand at a fixed wood, or plum, milled 74. So I'm guessing everyone using Bulgy's for clone as it's basically an Arsenal and the tolerances are better?
Anyways, thanks for continuing to educate me, it's helping a lot!
Unless you have lots of mags and or disposable income. Building a 74 w/out the mags and ammo may be a waste of time & money.
Unless you have lots of mags and or disposable income. Building a 74 w/out the mags and ammo may be a waste of time & money.I'm curious for you to elaborate a bit more I guess...
I will too. I plan on using a CMC Warrior milled receiver, which will allow me to use a stamped kit to fill in the pieces (with minor fitment issues). That said, I've priced an AK74 milled bulgy at around $800-$900; this includes 5 magazine that are "pre-July 1", but no ammo. Still waiting for AIM surplus to get more in stock. 1/3rd of that cost is going to be the receiver anyways, which is always more expensive milled...
*edit* this build isn't a "purist" build either... just another clone Bulgy ;)
Great-Kazoo
04-05-2013, 23:03
I'm curious for you to elaborate a bit more I guess...
I will too. I plan on using a CMC Warrior milled receiver, which will allow me to use a stamped kit to fill in the pieces (with minor fitment issues). That said, I've priced an AK74 milled bulgy at around $800-$900; this includes 5 magazine that are "pre-July 1", but no ammo. Still waiting for AIM surplus to get more in stock. 1/3rd of that cost is going to be the receiver anyways, which is always more expensive milled...
*edit* this build isn't a "purist" build either... just another clone Bulgy ;)
Elaborate on what?
You don't have ammo and IMHO 5 mags is under stocked. There are vendors not wanting to ship mags to CO now, even though the "Law" takes affect 7/1. If 40% of vendors get spooked and decide to not ship anything to CO. The supply chain dries up, maybe permanently.
While the 5.45 is a nice round the ammo supply is sketchy at best, especially in this political climate. An $800 boat anchor is hard to move, if everyone is in the same ammoless situation.
The gesture is nice to do one for your dad.
Oh yeah i'm the nay sayer of the group. I look very long term not what can i do in the near future. For me it's what's availability, down the road. Hell 22lr has become extinct, unless you want to pay for $60+ bulk packs.
Haha, no worries on the naysayer part, I've got thick skin. I wanted you to elaborate on your opinion, which you did, thanks! :D
Personally, I don't think 4-5 mags is low as this gun will be for the range and I don't mind reloading them. If I'm in a SHTF situation. 4-5 mags is all I will need, as avoiding confrontations will be the goal here anyways...and if I end up needing more than 4-5 mags, well I made too many poor decisions that day to lead me there in the first place. Yes, ammo is scarce now and will continue to be for the unforeseeable future. But, I know enough to not buy the shit @ .47 cents a around and am waiting for AIM Surplus to get their next shipment in. Last time, it was 1000 rounds (IIRC 7n6) for .14 cents a round. Yes, not last year prices, but it's the times we live.
Anyways, let's get this thread back on track! Going back to Romanian's.
My dad mentioned that his stock was original and "buckskin" I can only that meant blonde or something similar to a Maadi. Did the Romanians, make a finish in this color or do you think it was taken from another kit or refinished to the owners liking?
Yea mags and ammo kinda limit what to build.
But there allways is sources,and you will pay for it.
The Romanians did have sorta a blondeish stock finish on most their sar's which were hardwood as opposed to laminate.
Some of their early non G rifles also had hardwood stocks but most of them were finished in a darker color
The Romanians did have sorta a blondeish stock finish on most their sar's which were hardwood as opposed to laminate.
Some of their early non G rifles also had hardwood stocks but most of them were finished in a darker color
Yeah I've been cruising the pic's thread over at AKforums, one of the first pages had a SAR that looked blondish. This might seem dumb, but how do you tell laminate from real wood? The laminate should rounded lines, while the solid piece should have very few or straight lines, right? [facepalm]
just trying to keep this build accurate.
Yeah I've been cruising the pic's thread over at AKforums, one of the first pages had a SAR that looked blondish. This might seem dumb, but how do you tell laminate from real wood? The laminate should rounded lines, while the solid piece should have very few or straight lines, right? [facepalm]
just trying to keep this build accurate.
Thats correct-laminate has the circular type grain as the hard wood just has more of a straight grain depending on how it's cut.
Another tell tale sign of laminate is if you look at it on the edge the wood grain looks stacked,basicly its just like plywood.
Easy-peasy. Top is hard wood, bottom laminate.
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m66/scotto01/My%20Firearms/SKSAKM.jpg
Easy-peasy. Top is hard wood, bottom laminate.
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m66/scotto01/My%20Firearms/SKSAKM.jpg
[Awesom] Yup
Although there are some sks's that have laminate stocks,somtimes their a bit harder to tell at first glance.
USAFGopherMike
04-06-2013, 03:48
Love the look of that dark wood.
I'm curious for you to elaborate a bit more I guess...
I will too. I plan on using a CMC Warrior milled receiver, which will allow me to use a stamped kit to fill in the pieces (with minor fitment issues). That said, I've priced an AK74 milled bulgy at around $800-$900; this includes 5 magazine that are "pre-July 1", but no ammo. Still waiting for AIM surplus to get more in stock. 1/3rd of that cost is going to be the receiver anyways, which is always more expensive milled...
*edit* this build isn't a "purist" build either... just another clone Bulgy ;)
Not sure why you'd want to do a milled 74 other than for the "different" factor.
IMHO the only reason to build a milled kit is if your gonna build a "DMR" type 47 or launching grenades.
With the AK74, the recoil is so little that I would find it hard to fathom a stamped kit not holding up any better than a milled. Milled recievers are only gonna add more weight and more cost.
With the money you save on a stamped receiver you can buy another 1080 rounds of 545
I like the aesthetics of the milled and just want to challenge myself to build one really. I doubt I'll do many more unless they are true cut up/rewelded imports.
jreifsch80
04-07-2013, 01:42
I like the aesthetics of the milled and just want to challenge myself to build one really. I doubt I'll do many more unless they are true cut up/rewelded imports.
milled ak's are nice for sure but they're not nearly the "challenge" to build like stamped ak's are. the're super east to build. takes about an hour if you're experienced and have the tooling. i want to tackle my m70's that need a reweld though just need to makes friends with a good welder lol
milled ak's are nice for sure but they're not nearly the "challenge" to build like stamped ak's are. the're super east to build. takes about an hour if you're experienced and have the tooling. lol, well I'm sure not experienced, so most of the refinishing is the challenge for me. Plus, searching for a true Bulgy barrel for under $150.00 is probably going to be the biggest challenge here :)
I like the aesthetics of the milled and just want to challenge myself to build one really. I doubt I'll do many more unless they are true cut up/rewelded imports.
So its the cool factor... Nothing wrong with that. There is another guy on another forum that built something like 14 milled yugo RPKs so he can become warlord of his block someday. He built all milled cause "that's the original" and "that's the strongest" and "stamped receivers suck" yada yada yada.
He could have built them with the 1.5 stamped recievers and bought himself about 16,000 rounds of yugo to feed all those.
Great-Kazoo
04-07-2013, 08:54
So its the cool factor... Nothing wrong with that. There is another guy on another forum that built something like 14 milled yugo RPKs so he can become warlord of his block someday. He built all milled cause "that's the original" and "that's the strongest" and "stamped receivers suck" yada yada yada.
He could have built them with the 1.5 stamped recievers and bought himself about 16,000 rounds of yugo to feed all those.
Stop making sense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r7X3f2gFz4
jreifsch80
04-07-2013, 10:42
by the way viper my second build i ever did was a virgin barrel m76 (milled receiver) it took about 4 hours because i totally took my time making sure to get everything right. ended up having a long headspace so i had to push the barrel in a little more and over size drill and pin the barrel that was frustrating but oh well it runs great and over the last couple years i've fine tuned the gas system on if and lapped the chamber and everything so it really runs but milled builds are the easier of the two
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