Just bought my 1st Firearm (AR-15 type POF P415) thanks to Hickenlooper/Obama. Need feedback

[jaypkay]

Finally made the plunge and exercised my 2nd amendment right and purchased my first sidearm and AR-15 style rifle. Too bad I waited too long and had to pay premium prices but that's what I get for sitting on the sidelines and assuming my 2nd amendment rights would always be around. My son and I went to DFC guns shooting range and Summit County Shooting range to fire off some rounds from the sidearm...had a great time and had a chance to doing some father/son bonding. Great handgun...comes standard with 4 20-round magazines, night sights (fiber optic front sights), rails, light trigger pull and short reset trigger for faster 2nd shots and magpul grips.

I also just received a POF P415 rifle (16 inch barrel with muzzle brake and 11 inch rails) with the bells and whistles that POF puts into their rifles. I put a set of magpul mbus sights since I was sick of waiting for the diamondhead micro sights to come in. I'm waiting to throw some rounds down range that greater than 30 ft so wanted to see if people could recommend a decent outdoor shooting range/area near Denver. I'm familiar with the Family Shooting Range (I like the folks there) but wanted to see if I could avoid the park fee and the range fee. I'll probably hit the Summit County Shooting Range but it gets crowded and is further than I'd like. I saw a guy with the user ID Ronin shoot his POF P415 someplace near Echo Mountain off of Sqaw Pass Road. Can anyone tell me more about this place. Is it open to public and a designated shooting area...I don't want beef with the local law enforcement.

I'll let people know how the P415 shoots and feels. I'll probably end up getting a EoTECH HHS-1 holographic sight and magnifier system but the rifle is heavy. Please let me know if any of you are familar with these optics and have good or bad things experiences. There is a chance that I might decide to unload/sell this rifle if it feels too heavy for my all purpose go to rifle since the odds are that this will be my only tactical type of rifle. Might end up going with a direct impingement AR that's lighter with less rails (Daniel Defense, Knight Arms or maybe Stag) or buy up to a Scar. We'll see once I have a chance to have a day of shooting this thing.

[cfortune]

The eotech/magnifier combo is heavy. At that price point you might look to get an ACOG. I sold my EXPS2-0 and Gen II magnifier to get one and have been much happier. Personally thought the eye relief on the magnifier was horrible as well.

[HBARleatherneck]

what handgun has magpul grips? and 20 round magazines?



i am such a skeptic. this sounds like we are being trolled.


first firearm, but knows tons of information.

[RblDiver]

If only your experience had taken place near Fort Collins. Having recently graduated and gotten a job, I too am looking to exercise my 2nd. I'm not a complete "noob," but definitely a novice (as a youth did a bit of .22 shooting (milk bottles and the like when camping) and a smidge of actual range firing). I'm trying to find a good place who'll give me good advice and eventually point me in the right direction of learning hunting skills.

I'll be interested to read about your experiences!

[crashdown]

what handgun has magpul grips? and 20 round magazines?



i am such a skeptic. this sounds like we are being trolled.


first firearm, but knows tons of information.

AR-Pistol? he did say "rails" not rail too.

[mrghost]

AR-Pistol? he did say "rails" not rail too.

I was thinking some type of Sig.

[blacklabel]

AR-Pistol? he did say "rails" not rail too.

That's the only thing that makes sense but it's far from a "sidearm".

[Ronin13]

OP, ignore these sticklers for spelling and proper lingo- you're new, so I'll be welcoming... you also called me out, and so I must respond. Welcome to the forum, and especially, welcome to the small, distinguished world of being a POF firearm owner! I've had my P415 for almost 2 years now and have probably put 5-6,000 rounds through it and it still runs like a sewing machine! My current setup has Magpul MBUS, EOTech HWS, and Magpul RVG. I love it!
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/253892_10150214514998130_5211566_n.jpghttps://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/252908_10150217614163130_653553_n.jpg
Here are some pics to compare with. It's a good system, and I'm sure I'll get some flak here, but I honestly believe that the POF piston system is far superior in terms of cleanliness, reliability, and durability to the DI system used on most AR family rifles (that also comes from extensive use and abuse with an Army issued M4, and I'd still rather swap out the upper with my POF than use the Bushmaster I was issued). The downside is, due to the construction and the weighty metals POF uses, they can be heavier systems than most, but if it's too much for someone, I can suggest a great personal trainer to help overcome that. [Weight]

As far as Squaw Pass goes, yes it's up by the Echo Mtn ski training facility (used to be known as Echo Mtn Ski Area, not sure what it's actually called now) the directions are somewhat easy it's just a bit of a trek- I can PM you with directions, but you will need 4x4 to get there until all the snow melts. [Beer]

[Dingo]

Welcome to the site man, and enjoy the new guns! Good for you for helping the next generation appreciate them as well.

[drift_g35]

what handgun has magpul grips? and 20 round magazines?



i am such a skeptic. this sounds like we are being trolled.


first firearm, but knows tons of information.

Sig p226 tacops comes with 4 20rnd mags.

[HBARleatherneck]

and uses magpul grips?

[drift_g35]

OP, do you mind letting us know what you paid? My buddy has been looking all over for a 415. He found one at Machine Gun Tours but they wanted almost $5000 for it.

[drift_g35]

and uses magpul grips?

I think he may have been thinking of possibly magwell grips? i dont know. The tacops has different grips because of the extended magazine
http://www.kygunco.com/prodimages/26115-DEFAULT-L.jpg

[HoneyBadger]

So... Is the "sidearm" am AR pistol? Or did Magpul start making pistol grips without telling anyone?

[Zundfolge]

The eotech/magnifier combo is heavy. At that price point you might look to get an ACOG. I sold my EXPS2-0 and Gen II magnifier to get one and have been much happier. Personally thought the eye relief on the magnifier was horrible as well.

I agree with this, the only reason to get a magnifier for an eotech is if you already happen to have an eotech, otherwise get the ACOG. With only 4x magnification on my TA01NSN I have no problem with quick and close work (works great with both eyes open).

[jaypkay]

OP, do you mind letting us know what you paid? My buddy has been looking all over for a 415. He found one at Machine Gun Tours but they wanted almost $5000 for it.


Drift_g35, I paid around $2300 for the POF P415 (when taking into account the free mags). I got it from Hinterland Outfitter and had it shipped to my FFL dealer. I was just on their site looking for some optics and did notice they had one in stock as of this morning. Before people chastise me for paying a butt load for an AR-15 type rifle, I too realize I paid a lot but that's the penalty I'm paying for waiting too long and buying in the midst of a political agenda that wants to roll back our 2nd amendment rights. Its also a gas piston and has a ton of bells and whistles...I think the list MSRP from POF is $2300. One thing to note, when I received the rifle and after taking possession of it, I noticed that it was missing the Norgon ambi mag release while I stripped and cleaned the rifle. I talked to Hinterland and they were surprised as well. They quickly responded to my concern and reached out to POF on my behalf. They were notified by POF that their rifles no longer included the norgon ambi mag release because of the long lead time to get those from Norgon. To make things right with my, Hinterland shipped me free of charge 3 30 round mags. I highly recommend Hinterland Outfitters...they are very responsive and took great care of me.

[drift_g35]

Thats actually a pretty good price for right now. I payed 2000 for my barrett pre panic and wasnt too upset about it. Dont know what they are selling for now though. You will like your POF I have heard nothing but good things about them.

[jaypkay]

Bingo on the Sig Sauer P226 TacOps 9mm. I mistakenly referred to the grips...its Magwell NOT Magpul and I meant rail not rails. It may have looked like I was trolling as a newbie with too much info, but the internet is a wonderful invention. I probably spent around 6-8 months researching the sidearm I was going to get. I narrowed it down to my two top contenders, the P226 TacOps 9mm and the FNX .45 Tactical. I ended up going with the P226 TacOps because it holds more rounds, 9mm ammo seemed cheaper at the time, the SRT trigger and rave reviews on reliability. Because of my dithering and the increased concern on limiting gun rights, I think I ended up paying $150 more. I ended up mounting a Viridian X5L gen 2 laser/light for home defense purposes. I've shot around 800 rounds (mostly cheap-ish PMC and remmington stuff as well as some Speer gold dot self defense ammo). I haven't had a single misfire and the P226 shoots great.

With respect to the optics, I was pretty sure on the EoTECH but your comments have me rethinking...maybe I bought into the EoTECH hype too much. I thought it was the right combo of fast close quarter target acquisition and down range accuracy/sighting. I've never used high end optics so not sure what ACOG is about...I'll have to do some research. Does the ACOG allow for both close quarter and long range sighting. If its mainly a down range optic, what do you guys do for close quarter...iron sights only? I assume the price point is about the same? I got a quote (although it would be back order) on the EoTECH HH-1 package for $949. I'm also thinking I might sell the Magpul mbus sights....which are basically brand new since I just installed them, and get the diamondhead micro sights specifically made for POF rifles.

[Ronin13]

Hmmm... I paid $2300 for my 415... strange, no panic prices for POF? I love it! Drift- Machine Gun Tours is one of the worst price gougers in the city! Go compare their prices on things with 5280 and you'll be surprised at how much of difference you see. They still think they can charge $1000 for 1000 rounds of .223. [Bang]

ETA: Jaypkay- it all comes down to preference. My brother runs an Aimpoint Micro on his Noveske and he seems to like it, I run an EOTech on my POF and I love it. I don't need magnification since I don't usually shoot further out than 200M, and can see pretty well at that distance. Choose what you like best (I personally love holo sights- ran an Aimpoint CCO on my Army M4 and wasn't that impressed).

[SideShow Bob]

Before ordering your optics, meet up at some of the gatherings and share your AR with others and they will share with you, so that you can try various optics setups to see what you really want.

Or you will end up like the most of us, buying and selling optics until you find what is perfect for you.

[losttrail]

...I narrowed it down to my two top contenders, the P226 TacOps 9mm and the FNX .45 Tactical. I ended up going with the P226 TacOps because it holds more rounds, 9mm ammo seemed cheaper at the time, ...

.45ACP Because shooting twice is just silly. At least that's what the sticker on my truck says. :)

Welcome and enjoy your toys. Vote right.

[soldier-of-the-apocalypse]

looks like we have a honest new member here guys. That sig is sweet!!!

[soldier-of-the-apocalypse]

I would say before you worry too much about optics you should get proficient at using iron sights. After you do that you should think real hard about your POU, do you plan on being a tactical operator that is clearing houses. Or do you hunt small game. Put holes in paper at the range, 3 gun competition. It all depends on what you want to do with your gun when looking at optics or red dots but first you need to know how to use iron sights. You should take a look a some of NUTNFANCY'S videos on you tube there is alot of helpful info on there for you

[Ridge]

Before ordering your optics, meet up at some of the gatherings and share your AR with others and they will share with you, so that you can try various optics setups to see what you really want.

Or you will end up like the most of us, buying and selling optics until you find what is perfect for you.

Agreed. I've gone through about every type of optic there is.

Gotta say, the TA01 was my fave magnified optic, and the T-1 Micro was my fave red dot.

http://i.imgur.com/cykn0DO.jpg

[davsel]

looks like we have a honest new member here guys. That sig is sweet!!!

Though I hear good things about the trigger (even though it's DA), I don't understand the beaver-tail or the grips.

[soldier-of-the-apocalypse]

Though I hear good things about the trigger (even though it's DA), I don't understand the beaver-tail or the grips.


​1911

[davsel]

​1911

Sorry to high-jack the thread, and I am a big fan of Sig pistols, but:

The 1911 is SA carried cocked - beaver-tail shields the hammer. Sig is DA. The original Sig grip frame is sufficient. Is curve in the Sig beaver-tail higher up the rear of the frame than the original Sig curve, or is it just a cosmetic (wanting to look like a 1911) thing?

The extended grips blend into the 20 round mag, but wouldn't they make loading a standard mag more difficult? The standard grips are more than long enough to accommodate the largest of hands. Are the extended ones for people with extra fingers? :)

[soldier-of-the-apocalypse]

I think its just to be different or look cool. Just like the glock gen 4 that got all muffed up for no reason, why fix it if it aint broke am I right

[losttrail]

I would say before you worry too much about optics you should get proficient at using iron sights. After you do that you should think real hard about your POU, do you plan on being a tactical operator that is clearing houses. Or do you hunt small game. Put holes in paper at the range, 3 gun competition. It all depends on what you want to do with your gun when looking at optics or red dots but first you need to know how to use iron sights. You should take a look a some of NUTNFANCY'S videos on you tube there is alot of helpful info on there for you

Great advise. That's why you need more than one AR.

[jaypkay]

Sorry to high-jack the thread, and I am a big fan of Sig pistols, but:

The 1911 is SA carried cocked - beaver-tail shields the hammer. Sig is DA. The original Sig grip frame is sufficient. Is curve in the Sig beaver-tail higher up the rear of the frame than the original Sig curve, or is it just a cosmetic (wanting to look like a 1911) thing?

The extended grips blend into the 20 round mag, but wouldn't they make loading a standard mag more difficult? The standard grips are more than long enough to accommodate the largest of hands. Are the extended ones for people with extra fingers? :)

The beaver tail was not a factor in my decision but the grip and ergo just feels right. You can use regular magazines. For example , the 18 round magazine will lock in flush...the 20 round magazine has a small butt end of the magazine that extends out of the grip. Since the P226 is a full size pistol...I wasn't considering it for CC so the extended grips and magazine size wasn't an issue.

I'm not sure, but I believe that you are supposed to carry this with a round chambered and with the hammer decocked using the decocking lever. The DA pull is around 9-10 pounds and the single action 4.4 pounds. Feels very crisp and the travel on the trigger is short. I went to blucore and tried out various handguns when I started my research and the P226 and the XDM was what felt and shot the best for me. I've been trying to learn to get accurage with my double action pull and follow-up SA second. That 10 pound double action pull takes some getting used after getting comfortable with the SA.

[HBARleatherneck]

well the whole first post makes sense now. it must be nice to start off with some of the nicest guns out.

[jaypkay]

I would say before you worry too much about optics you should get proficient at using iron sights. After you do that you should think real hard about your POU, do you plan on being a tactical operator that is clearing houses. Or do you hunt small game. Put holes in paper at the range, 3 gun competition. It all depends on what you want to do with your gun when looking at optics or red dots but first you need to know how to use iron sights. You should take a look a some of NUTNFANCY'S videos on you tube there is alot of helpful info on there for you

I definately want to get used to the iron sights. I've shot around 120 rounds at my indoor shooting range but that only goes out to 30 feet so I need to spend some time throwing some rounds out farther and get good at it. I'm not sure if I'm sold on the Magpul Mbus sights. I'm have some difficulty to get it sighted.

[jaypkay]

Hmmm... I paid $2300 for my 415... strange, no panic prices for POF? I love it! Drift- Machine Gun Tours is one of the worst price gougers in the city! Go compare their prices on things with 5280 and you'll be surprised at how much of difference you see. They still think they can charge $1000 for 1000 rounds of .223. [Bang]

ETA: Jaypkay- it all comes down to preference. My brother runs an Aimpoint Micro on his Noveske and he seems to like it, I run an EOTech on my POF and I love it. I don't need magnification since I don't usually shoot further out than 200M, and can see pretty well at that distance. Choose what you like best (I personally love holo sights- ran an Aimpoint CCO on my Army M4 and wasn't that impressed).

Ronin - did you have trouble getting the mbus sights zero'd? I've shot off about 120 rounds at my indoor range which only goes out about 30 feet and I'm having a bit of an issue with shooting low. I've read that since the POF rifles have high rail system that you need low profile sights. The gunsmith at POF said that I would need to crank down the front post as far as possible and even then, it might still have a tendancy to shoot low. I've been compensating by aiming higher than normal but then the actual target gets covered by the front post so I feel like my accuracy is sucking. I need to get out to an actual rifle range and see how it performs between 25-100 yards. Or I might bite the bullet and get the diamondhead sights but means dropping another $200 and selling the mbus sights.

[HBARleatherneck]

the sights are fine. 30 feet is toooooo close. i think the army goes to out to 25 meters. take it outside and zero them at a further distance then you will know where to aim for close shots.

[Chad4000]

Congrats on the weapons! Welcome to the site!

[soldier-of-the-apocalypse]

the sights are fine. 30 feet is toooooo close. i think the army goes to out to 25 meters. take it outside and zero them at a further distance then you will know where to aim for close shots.

yup I always zero my AR's at 50 yards. You could go shoot at cherry creek res and in the mean time try to join a gun club

[Ronin13]

I'm not sure, but I believe that you are supposed to carry this with a round chambered and with the hammer decocked using the decocking lever. The DA pull is around 9-10 pounds and the single action 4.4 pounds. Feels very crisp and the travel on the trigger is short. I went to blucore and tried out various handguns when I started my research and the P226 and the XDM was what felt and shot the best for me. I've been trying to learn to get accurage with my double action pull and follow-up SA second. That 10 pound double action pull takes some getting used after getting comfortable with the SA.
I carry a Sig P229 9mm as my EDC, I always carry with one in the chamber and hammer back... reasoning, I've trained over and over for the lighter trigger pull.

Ronin - did you have trouble getting the mbus sights zero'd? I've shot off about 120 rounds at my indoor range which only goes out about 30 feet and I'm having a bit of an issue with shooting low. I've read that since the POF rifles have high rail system that you need low profile sights. The gunsmith at POF said that I would need to crank down the front post as far as possible and even then, it might still have a tendancy to shoot low. I've been compensating by aiming higher than normal but then the actual target gets covered by the front post so I feel like my accuracy is sucking. I need to get out to an actual rifle range and see how it performs between 25-100 yards. Or I might bite the bullet and get the diamondhead sights but means dropping another $200 and selling the mbus sights.
I didn't have a problem, but then again I got the whole deal in one go, MBUS and EOTech, so I just co-witnessed my iron sights after dialing in the EOTech and then removed the HWS to confirm and it was dead on. I've heard the same but I don't know for sure if the heightened rail actually does mess up your zero.
ETA: Adjust your zero- I used a 25m->100m zero sheet (shoot at 25m and it is good up to 100m).

[davsel]

I carry a Sig P229 9mm as my EDC, I always carry with one in the chamber and hammer back... reasoning, I've trained over and over for the lighter trigger pull.

Isn't the P229 a DA without any form of safety?
I'm no NRA Certified Pistol Instructor, but isn't that unsafe?

ETA: should have put "external safety" - P229 has firing pin block

[jaypkay]

Isn't the P229 a DA without any form of safety?
I'm no NRA Certified Pistol Instructor, but isn't that unsafe?

ETA: should have put "external safety" - P229 has firing pin block

There is no external safety. On SA (i.e. with hammer cocked and round chambered) a pull of the 4.4 pound trigger will cause it to fire...or at least that's what I think is the situation unless I'm missing something.

[drift_g35]

The sigs that have a DA hammer lock when the hammer is down. The hammer doesnt touch the firing pin therefore you cant just "Drop" your gun and have it fire.

I have a sig p226 combat and LOVE IT. I also have the mbus and I read a review that they are basically indestructible. I'll check to see if I can find that review for you.

Edit: Found it: http://kitup.military.com/2012/07/back-up-iron-sight-drop-test.html

[Ronin13]

Isn't the P229 a DA without any form of safety?
I'm no NRA Certified Pistol Instructor, but isn't that unsafe?

ETA: should have put "external safety" - P229 has firing pin block
Unsafe? Wait, aren't all guns dangerous, evil killing machines that will destroy any and all children they encounter? I read that once on PMSNBC... [Coffee]
Besides... This is my safety...
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/1691037/this-is-my-safety-o.gif
It's no more dangerous, btw, than me packing a 1911 with a 3.1lb trigger pull always cocked and locked [Beer]

[davsel]

It's no more dangerous, btw, than me packing a 1911 with a 3.1lb trigger pull always cocked and locked [Beer]

Um, when I reholster my 1911s cocked and locked, they will not go bang if something (glove, shirt, string...) finds its way into the trigger guard. They also won't go bang when I draw it quickly under stress - until I unlock it that is.

Certainly not trying to tell you how to carry - you can take as much risk as you like. However, I just thought I'd point out to a new shooter, who owns a similar weapon, that your choice is not necessarily the safest method. And probably not what the NRA teaches in their pistol courses. As a matter of fact, you are the first one I have encountered who carries a DA auto in this fashion.

More practice with the DA pull will overcome this method. Or get a SAO Sig. Or get a 1911. Or get a Glock (granted, not much different than your method). Or get any other manufacturer's weapon that is designed to be carried cocked.

JMHO

[Ronin13]

Um, when I reholster my 1911s cocked and locked, they will not go bang if something (glove, shirt, string...) finds its way into the trigger guard. They also won't go bang when I draw it quickly under stress - until I unlock it that is.

Certainly not trying to tell you how to carry - you can take as much risk as you like. However, I just thought I'd point out to a new shooter, who owns a similar weapon, that your choice is not necessarily the safest method. And probably not what the NRA teaches in their pistol courses. As a matter of fact, you are the first one I have encountered who carries a DA auto in this fashion.

More practice with the DA pull will overcome this method. Or get a SAO Sig. Or get a 1911. Or get a Glock (granted, not much different than your method). Or get any other manufacturer's weapon that is designed to be carried cocked.

JMHO
I understand, and funny, I know a USSS (ret) agent who always carried his duty Sig 229 (.357sig) with the hammer back, but they're trained quite a bit on those pistols. And the NRA itself doesn't teach pistol courses, NRA certified instructors do, and more often than not the "NRA Way" is a very bad way on a lot of things in terms of practical use- for instance, I teach to do everything in your 'workspace' (if you don't know, that's up at about chin level so you can see what you're doing and see the situation developing in front of you), the NRA wants people to have the muzzle down when doing everything. But I guess it all depends on the shooter's skill level and experience, I like to think I have quite a bit in both areas thanks to extensive training and repetition. I only offer my stance on things, the way I do things, YMMV. [Beer]

[Byte Stryke]

I understand, and funny, I know a USSS (ret) agent who always carried his duty Sig 229 (.357sig) with the hammer back, but they're trained quite a bit on those pistols. And the NRA itself doesn't teach pistol courses, NRA certified instructors do, and more often than not the "NRA Way" is a very bad way on a lot of things in terms of practical use- for instance, I teach to do everything in your 'workspace' (if you don't know, that's up at about chin level so you can see what you're doing and see the situation developing in front of you), the NRA wants people to have the muzzle down when doing everything. But I guess it all depends on the shooter's skill level and experience, I like to think I have quite a bit in both areas thanks to extensive training and repetition. I only offer my stance on things, the way I do things, YMMV. [Beer]


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[spittoon]

ONE JUST ONE WELCOME TO THE DARK SIDE