Senate Reached Bipartisan Deal on Background Checks

[wctriumph]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/10/background-checks_n_3053059.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D296292

Sens. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) and Pat Toomey (R-Pa.) announced a deal on background checks for gun sales during a press conference on Wednesday.
The background check deal would expand the system to cover all commercial sales, such as at gun shows and online, the AP reports (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20130410/us-gun-control-congress/).
Two Senate aides with knowledge of the negotiations broke news (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/10/gun-background-checks_n_3051579.html) of the deal Wednesday morning. The AP reports (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20130410/us-gun-control-congress/):
WASHINGTON — Two pivotal senators have announced a bipartisan deal on expanding background checks to more gun buyers. The agreement could build support for President Barack Obama's drive to curb firearms violence. Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin of West Virginia and Republican Sen. Patrick Toomey of Pennsylvania said their agreement would help keep firearms from criminals and the mentally ill.
The checks would now apply to commercial sales, such as transactions at gun shows and online. The sales would have to be channeled through licensed firearms dealers, who would have to keep records of the transactions.
Manchin said that since the slayings of school children and educators in Newtown, Conn., both sides in the gun debate must find common ground. Toomey said he considers expanded background checks common sense, not gun control.

Lets hope that the House does not do the same (I have a feeling that they will).

[losttrail]

BOHICA

[Teufelhund]

The checks would now apply to commercial sales, such as transactions at gun shows and online.

How is this different from the way it is today?

[Caithford]

How is this different from the way it is today?

That's my thought too? Gun show dealers already do BGC's, and purchasing online requires shipment to an FFL who must do a BGC IAW state laws to release the firearm to you. Maybe it's another "feel good" piece of legislation that doesn't actually do anything but shows their constituents they are "doing something." They need a law that wasting taxpayer dollars on worthless legislation should be a felony.

[Robb]

If this passes, no face-to-face in-state sales are legal anywhere in the country, unless it's between family members.

[Dave]

We already have to do BGC's for gun show sales here in CO, but in a lot of states you don't. Wonder what their definition of commercial gun sales will entail.

[Hound]

We already have to do BGC's for gun show sales here in CO, but in a lot of states you don't. Wonder what their definition of commercial gun sales will entail.

Yup

[clark]

This still has to go through the house and not sure how well it will be recieved though it will prob get through if this is all it has in it. Might get changed some and sent back to the senate.

[Zundfolge]

How is this different from the way it is today?

If I understand it correctly it would make the entire country the same as Colorado was before it passed this latest round of gun control laws.

Here in CO we're used to BG checks on sales between non FFLs at gun shows, but in much of the rest of the country gun shows are just like the forum here or Armslist.

I also believe the new law would require BG checks for local sales via Armslist and the forums if they make any money off advertising.

[Clint45]

im guessing online means armslist and forum sales.


If this passes, no face-to-face in-state sales are legal anywhere in the country, unless it's between family members.

Actually, it sounds like it only applies to COMMERCIAL sales. With the exception of C&R, which requires a federal license, black powder rifles, and antique rifles over 100 years old, all "internet sales" shipped through the mail already require transfer through a FFL.

[liberty19]

These "new" BG checks will be registration.

[Rucker61]

If this passes, no face-to-face in-state sales are legal anywhere in the country, unless it's between family members.

After July 1 here, we'll have to get BGCs for sales to family members.

[Teufelhund]

Actually, it sounds like it only applies to COMMERCIAL sales. With the exception of C&R, which requires a federal license, black powder rifles, and antique rifles over 100 years old, all "internet sales" shipped through the mail already require transfer through a FFL.

This. So it looks like it doesn't apply to private transactions. I haven't read it though, so who knows?


These "new" BG checks will be registration.

FFLs are already required to keep the 4473 forms. Does this introduce a more detailed record of the transaction?

[Great-Kazoo]

These "new" BG checks will be registration.

How so, Since GS BGC are already law in CO? If you do a purchase at a LGS it's 4473. IF you buy online................. it goes through a FFL / LGS/ 4473


This. So it looks like it doesn't apply to private transactions. I haven't read it though, so who knows?



FFLs are already required to keep the 4473 forms. Does this introduce a more detailed record of the transaction?

Correct.
keep in mind While CO enacted a UBC starting 7/1/2013 NOT ALL STATES REQUIRE A UBC

[buckshotbarlow]

if this passes...ill host a free forumn from cheyenne to do ftf at one of the truckstops....

[Great-Kazoo]

if this passes...ill host a free forumn from cheyenne to do ftf at one of the truckstops....

You still can't sell w/out a 4473 over state lines.
I'm going to sell weed, less hassle, laid back clientele and hot hippie & hipster chicks. Only problem is convincing some college kid to grow it for me. The 1099 form's going to be a bitch, oh well. Maybe i'll grow hemp, the sowing not the rollin kind. Then do what Holley did way back when and make parts with them. Imagine the look on some LE's face when you have not only a 20 round mag, but it's made out of weed.

[Hound]

This does not look any different to us because it is what we are used to. I want to see what the actual wording is. The devil is in the details.

[buckshotbarlow]

You still can't sell w/out a 4473 over state lines.
I'm going to sell weed, less hassle, laid back clientele and hot hippie & hipster chicks. Only problem is convincing some college kid to grow it for me. The 1099 form's going to be a bitch, oh well. Maybe i'll grow hemp, tjhe sowing not the rollin kind. Then do what Holley did way back when and make parts with them. Imagine the look on some LE's face when you have not only a 20 round mag, but it's made out of weed.
not if i'm a WY resident...

[Great-Kazoo]

not if i'm a WY resident...

Only to other Wyo residents.

[rondog]

I read in this morning's Denver Wipe that this proposal DOESN'T include face-to-face private transactions?

[sniper7]

After July 1 here, we'll have to get BGCs for sales to family members.

No that is wrong

[BlasterBob]

Actually, it sounds like it only applies to COMMERCIAL sales. With the exception of C&R, which requires a federal license, black powder rifles, and antique rifles over 100 years old, all "internet sales" shipped through the mail already require transfer through a FFL.

For the C&R's, are you sure it's 100 years and NOT just 50 years old?? Unless we are talking about two different matters, my C&R instruction book shows 50 years to qualify as being a real C&R but this does not include replicas thereof.

[jreifsch80]

c&r's and antiques are different thing. c&r's are firearms on the c&r list. antiques are firearms 1898 and earlier.

[Rucker61]

No that is wrong

I see where "bona fide" gifts and loans to family members are exempted, but not sales.

[Great-Kazoo]

I see where "bona fide" gifts and loans to family members are exempted, but not sales.

And who exactly is going to SELL anything to a family member[facepalm]

[Hound]

The only exception at this time is 'word of mouth' only. So if you've ever posted it on a forum or dicussed it at a meeting, 4473.

This is defacto registration via paper, inevitably BATFE will get caught compiling the data and some mid-level flunky will get 'reassigned'. But make no mistake, given that 4473s 'live' forever, this is the first step to a national database of gun owners.

Galaxy Note II + Tapatalk 2

To bolster this point: I recently had an FFL tell me that If/When an FFL Quits/Retires they are required to send in all of their paperwork to the ATF for them to dispose of by law. Hmmmm, no room for abuse their!

[BlasterBob]

To bolster this point: I recently had an FFL tell me that If/When an FFL Quits/Retires they are required to send in all of their paperwork to the ATF for them to dispose of by law. Hmmmm, no room for abuse their!

Correct! When I turned my FFL 01 record book a few years ago, the BATF told me specifically that those records would be entered into their computer.

[Rucker61]

And who exactly is going to SELL anything to a family member[facepalm]

I'd buy or sell a gun with my brother or uncle.

[mikedubs]

I read many pieces on this deal yesterday; they all seemed contradictory. BUT I did see something mentioning 48 hour background checks...how does this affect gun shows that pack up and leave in 48 hours?

Is this the real purpose: to greatly diminish gunshows? If so, wouldn't that interfere with commerce and therefore be open to a legal challenge?

ETA: a link to one such story

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/gun-background-checks-deal-89856.html?hp=r1

[BlasterBob]

c&r's and antiques are different thing. c&r's are firearms on the c&r list. antiques are firearms 1898 and earlier.

A C&R Licensee would handle a 60 or 70 year old firearm that is NOT listed on the C&R "List" as a C&R. As long as it was manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date then it is considered a C&R and should be handled accordingly. So, the Licensee would not have to be concerned about it being an "antique".

[Ronin13]

I'd buy or sell a gun with my brother or uncle.
You ain't the brightest light in the knife drawer is you, boy?

[liberty19]

This is defacto registration via paper, inevitably BATFE will get caught compiling the data and some mid-level flunky will get 'reassigned'. But make no mistake, given that 4473s 'live' forever, this is the first step to a national database of gun owners.

Galaxy Note II + Tapatalk 2[/QUOTE]
This.

[Rucker61]

You ain't the brightest light in the knife drawer is you, boy?

Explain.

[Random]

This is defacto registration via paper, inevitably BATFE will get caught compiling the data and some mid-level flunky will get 'reassigned'. But make no mistake, given that 4473s 'live' forever, this is the first step to a national database of gun owners.

Galaxy Note II + Tapatalk 2


This is a Second Amendment "Protection" act in much the same way North Korea is the "Democratic People's Republic" of Korea. East Germany was the German "Democratic" Republic. You get the idea.

[Ronin13]

Explain.
To say what Jim already said, I'm not going to sell a firearm to a family member... as gifts do not require a BGC, I'm glad my family has birthdays spread out throughout the year.

[Rucker61]

To say what Jim already said, I'm not going to sell a firearm to a family member... as gifts do not require a BGC, I'm glad my family has birthdays spread out throughout the year.

But that's not what the law says, which was my point. It will be illegal to sell a gun to your wife, brother or uncle without a BGC. I'm also concerned about the wording of "bona fide gift". Does Colorado law required documentation like the IRS does?

[Great-Kazoo]

But that's not what the law says, which was my point. It will be illegal to sell a gun to your wife, brother or uncle without a BGC. I'm also concerned about the wording of "bona fide gift". Does Colorado law required documentation like the IRS does?

AND WHO EXACTLY IS GOING TO SELL A GUN TO THEIR WIFE, OR FAMILY MEMBER[facepalm]THIS is what i asked you. Which you seem to be missing the point of. HOW THE FUK WILL ANYONE KNOW WHAT YOUR FAMILY DOES OR DOES NOT HAVE IN THEIR POSSESSION????

You going down to your local LGS and have your spouse or kid fill out a 4473?????? get with it.

[Rucker61]

AND WHO EXACTLY IS GOING TO SELL A GUN TO THEIR WIFE, OR FAMILY MEMBER[facepalm]THIS is what i asked you. Which you seem to be missing the point of. HOW THE FUK WILL ANYONE KNOW WHAT YOUR FAMILY DOES OR DOES NOT HAVE IN THEIR POSSESSION????

You going down to your local LGS and have your spouse or kid fill out a 4473?????? get with it.


You seem to miss my point: uncles and brothers count as close familty members, and I think it's reasonable to expect that one could expect to actually purchase or sell a firearm from a brother or uncle. Would I actually go to an FFL and do the form 4473? Likely not, but WILL BE THE LAW, which is the first point I made.

[polski]

It is way worse than advertised...you can forget about every posting a firearm for sale or for want in any electronic or printed news media.

http://www.thedailysheeple.com/tommey-manchin-sellout-bill-is-worse-than-feinstein-gun-ban_042013

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/posted-full-text-public-safety-and-second-amendment-rights-protection-act_716249.html