Gunshow "Loophole" Questions...

[clublights]

So I was reading an opinion piece on CNN and this fart nugget claims that manufacturers are against Universal Background Checks because if they were in place they manufacturers would sell fewer guns to criminals and nut cases...

Now Thats hogwash .. right ?

I can not think of any way for a gun to go from manufacturer to private citizen without going thru a background check at some point( this of course excludes criminal acts like theft of the weapon)

Only thing I can think of to be close would be transfer to an FFL who transfers to his private collection then sells personally ... but I'd think if a guys were doing tat enough to show a REAL profit to manufacturers the ATF would crack some books and deal some prison time. ...

So am I wrong?

[Ridge]

Their argument is based entirely on supposition. They haven't actually asked any manufacturers.

[Gman]

Just like buying guns off the Internet without a background check. I'm not sure what alternate reality they live in.

[brutal]

I'm surprised they didn't say that manufacturers are FOR UBC. Cause you know like 90% of gun owners are for them.

[clublights]

Their argument is based entirely on supposition. They haven't actually asked any manufacturers.

Yes yes I get that ...

Thing is want to write my own little opinion piece on my facebook but wanna cover my bases to make sure I'm not missing something.

[brutal]

I'm surprised they didn't say that manufacturers are FOR UBC. Cause you know like 90% of gun owners FUDDS are for them.

FIFMDS

(fixed if for my damn self)

[brutal]

"Gunshow loophole"

If you intend to speak to the post title, there are no dealer sales exempt from Background checks. The gunshow loophole argument is only meaningful if discussing private sales.

[clublights]

Just like buying guns off the Internet without a background check. I'm not sure what alternate reality they live in.


Well that one I kinda keep my mouth shut about ...

we do have that little trading post thing here......


Yes yes .. it's just the same as newspaper want ad's face to face sales but it's easy to call it internet sales.. we met on the internet.. So you COULD technically call it an internet sale...

But that is not the point I'm after.

Is there a legit way for gun to go from manufacturer to citizen without a background check in the loop?

[clublights]

"Gunshow loophole"

If you intend to speak to the post title, there are no dealer sales exempt from Background checks. The gunshow loophole argument is only meaningful if discussing private sales.


Yup.. I get that again trying to find something I don't know about before I do my little write up.

[def90]

Well that one I kinda keep my mouth shut about ...

we do have that little trading post thing here......


Yes yes .. it's just the same as newspaper want ad's face to face sales but it's easy to call it internet sales.. we met on the internet.. So you COULD technically call it an internet sale...

But that is not the point I'm after.

Is there a legit way for gun to go from manufacturer to citizen without a background check in the loop?

Well, the first person to buy it would get a check.. after that a private sale would not need a check.

[clublights]

Well, the first person to buy it would get a check.. after that a private sale would not need a check.


EXACTLY! so from a manufacturers point of view UBC's mean NOTHING. every weapon they produce goes thru at least one background check ( you could easily argue 2 or 3 since they typically go from manufacturer to distributor to dealer/Gun Shop to citizen .... and both dealer/Gun Shop and distributor are FFL's and have gone thru background checks )

[jhood001]

I tried a few times to reply to this post and finally gave up. I couldn't find any factual basis, logic or reasoning to refute a point that lacked any factual basis, logic or reasoning.

I don't think you need any help with this one.

[clublights]

I tried a few times to reply to this post and finally gave up. I couldn't find any factual basis, logic or reasoning to refute a point that lacked any factual basis, logic or reasoning.

I don't think you need any help with this one.


Thanks... I think ....


Again just trying to find something I don't know about. I'm pretty darn sure I ave how this works down .. but hey I'm no expert.

[jhood001]

Thanks... I think ....


Again just trying to find something I don't know about. I'm pretty darn sure I ave how this works down .. but hey I'm no expert.

Yeah, I meant on the op-ed assholes' opinion. Not yours.

Manufacturers aren't concerned about a fractional percent of sales that MIGHT go to a criminal element. They would do anything in their power to prevent their firearms from falling into the hands of a criminal element in order to preserve the reputation of their business as well as avoid any scrutiny of the law.

The opinion the author is putting forward is comparative to saying a condom manufacturer wants to protect their sales to rapists and child molesters that are mindful of unwanted pregnancies or STDs. It is just insanely stupid.

[sniper7]

So the manufacturers should not sell to the government. A fraction of those go to criminals. They end up in Mexican cartels as the ATF forces the ffl dealers to see the guns. The guns end up in foreign countries used against our troops. Logical to me to not sell to the government any more....oh and since leos have allowed guns to get into the hands of criminals, or killed children and dogs the manufacturers should not sell to them as well.

[GilpinGuy]

So the manufacturers should not sell to the government. A fraction of those go to criminals. They end up in Mexican cartels as the ATF forces the ffl dealers to see the guns. The guns end up in foreign countries used against our troops. Logical to me to not sell to the government any more....oh and since leos have allowed guns to get into the hands of criminals, or killed children and dogs the manufacturers should not sell to them as well.

Well said, sir.

[alxone]

there is no gun show loophole ! its a myth that is held in place by the gov and gun grabbers . 1 keeping the myth alive keeps dumb asses coming in the show and leaving n cuffs . 2 it also helps fuel the gun grabbing machine . 3 do you know or have ever met a vendor that would risk it all for a few hundred bucks ?

[Gman]

Well that one I kinda keep my mouth shut about ...

we do have that little trading post thing here......


Yes yes .. it's just the same as newspaper want ad's face to face sales but it's easy to call it internet sales.. we met on the internet.. So you COULD technically call it an internet sale...
No funds are exchanged on the Internet, so calling it an "Internet sale" would be misleading. I surf sales brochures for sporting goods on the Internet to find what I might want to buy at the store, but that doesn't make it an Internet sale.

Dealers do background checks by law and, in CO, non-dealers do background checks at gun shows. F2F sales do not. End of story.

"Gun show loophole", "40% of sales don't have background checks", "Internet sales without background checks", etc., are all part of a propaganda machine. They don't care about facts.

[spqrzilla]

If manufacturers had an opinion on "universal background checks", separate from the 2nd Amend issues, they'd support something that made used gun sales more difficult as it would drive up new gun sales.

Anyone claiming that manufacturers oppose background checks on private transfers - of guns they've already sold and can't get paid for again - out of some desire to sell to criminals is a moron.

[Sawin]

This is the problem gents. http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c3#/video/politics/2013/04/11/ac-pkg-savidge-gun-show-gun-buying.cnn

there are unscrupulous folks in the mix.

The above link, released today, shows a reporter buying guns at gun shows without bgc's.... Maybe CNN edited to show what they wanted it to show, but the end result is bad press for freedom/2A folks.

[TFOGGER]

This is the problem gents. http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c3#/video/politics/2013/04/11/ac-pkg-savidge-gun-show-gun-buying.cnn

there are unscrupulous folks in the mix.

The above link, released today, shows a reporter buying guns at gun shows without bgc's.... Maybe CNN edited to show what they wanted it to show, but the end result is bad press for freedom/2A folks.

And there are several states that do not require a background check for sales between private individuals at a gun show. The 40% figure is vastly inflated, however. Last I heard, less than 3% of guns were sold under these specific condtions.

Edit: I may be wrong, but aren't they committing a series of Federal felonies by making interstate purchases of handguns from private individuals? [Mad]

[OneGuy67]

So the manufacturers should not sell to the government. A fraction of those go to criminals. They end up in Mexican cartels as the ATF forces the ffl dealers to see the guns. The guns end up in foreign countries used against our troops. Logical to me to not sell to the government any more....oh and since leos have allowed guns to get into the hands of criminals, or killed children and dogs the manufacturers should not sell to them as well.

What are you talking about relating to LEO's allowing guns to get into the hands of criminals?

[Sawin]

And there are several states that do not require a background check for sales between private individuals at a gun show. The 40% figure is vastly inflated, however. Last I heard, less than 3% of guns were sold under these specific condtions.

Edit: I may be wrong, but aren't they committing a series of Federal felonies by making interstate purchases of handguns from private individuals? [Mad]

YES, they absolutely are! If that same reporter bought private party guns from people in each of those 3 states, then he has committed felonies.

[Teufelhund]

Is the premise flawed? Why do we have to submit to background checks to exercise one of our rights, and none of the others?

[Ronin13]

Is the premise flawed? Why do we have to submit to background checks to exercise one of our rights, and none of the others?
Because we gotta check you out before you buy something that *could* kill dozens, but we don't need to check you out before you vote in someone who has the potential to kill hundreds of thousands... [facepalm] That would be racist, you know.

[Inconel710]

YES, they absolutely are! If that same reporter bought private party guns from people in each of those 3 states, then he has committed felonies.

The sellers are guilty as well. Can't fix stupid, so we will ALL have to suffer.

[Great-Kazoo]

What are you talking about relating to LEO's allowing guns to get into the hands of criminals?

Fast and Furious

[OneGuy67]

Fast and Furious

Ahh! I get it.