Beware of who you are selling to...

[jrock]

http://www.armslist.com/posts/1462667/denver-colorado-rifles-for-sale--fox31-hidden-camera-crew-using-armslist-

[kidicarus13]

I wonder what laws they were breaking? The sale was not in Denver.

[generalmeow]

Infuriating! But I would like more details.

[Zundfolge]

God I hate "Journalists" ... I've known many over the years (socially and family) and they're all reprehensible narcissistic schmucks.

[brokenscout]

Its gonna happen, it fits the agenda

[Ronin13]

Infuriating! But I would like more details.
That's what I was about to say- reading that little narrative it's pretty vague... I'd like to know more details before jumping to any conclusions.

[generalmeow]

That's what I was about to say- reading that little narrative it's pretty vague... I'd like to know more details before jumping to any conclusions.

I sent them an email to ask why they are doing that. Doubt I'll hear back.

[USAFGopherMike]

People who purposely lie and try to entrap should be held accountable.

[jrock]

People who purposely lie and try to entrap should be held accountable.

Agreed, I emailed the guy and told him to report them to the police and other news agencies. Hopefully something will come out of it but I have my doubts.

[Jefe's AR]

I linked it to Fox's FB page asking for comment. How long before they delete it? Or will they comment? I gave them the 'opportunity' to respond before I linked it to my FB page. :)

[jrock]

The guy emailed me back and said he is talking with 9news about it and has reported them to the BATFE.

[GlockDog47]

The guy emailed me back and said he is talking with 9news about it and has reported them to the BATFE.

good but cant trust any media!

[rockhound]

link is dead for me

[Sharpienads]

link is dead for me

http://www.armslist.com/posts/1462667/denver-colorado-rifles-for-sale--fox31-hidden-camera-crew-using-armslist-
FOX31 HIDDEN CAMERA CREW USING ARMSLIST.

Be aware that Julie Hayden and Josh Bernstein are using this site to set up meetings with honest gun owners. I was almost scammed by them. Luckily I recognized Julie and told her they were attempting a straw purchase of my rifle (using her producer's money along with a fake name and address).

They went by the names Chris and Cheryl when they met with me. They tried to buy 30 round magazines just outside Denver claiming they were legal residents of Clear Creek County. They broke SEVERAL laws while trying to make ME out to be the bad guy.

Just be aware that they are out there. If anything smells funny walk away...or point out the illegality of their activities.

Edit: Thanks to those that have contacted me. Many have asked about their vehicle. They were in a black Cadillac crossover. I'm fairly certain they were filming from a late model Jeep Grand Cherokee across the Home Depot parking lot. I had a phone interview with 9news about this and I'm reporting them to BATFE. Keep the faith.

BTW, their contact info is as follows:
Julie.hayden@kdvr.com - Hidden camera reporter
peter.maroney@kdvr.com - President of KDVR (he actually responded to my email...totally worthless brush off)
josh.bernstein@kdvr.com - Reporter
Chris.lupenski@kdvr.com - He's the producer. Josh tried to use Chris's name and mountain residency (and cash?) to purchase my gun after I told him I couldn't sell to a Denver resident.

Give em a piece of your mind. If anybody is hooked up with RMGO or a decent lawyer I'd like to get this to them as well. Let's get this out there.

[USAFGopherMike]

I'd like to see them all fired and banned from journalism.. some jail time with a large repeat offender rapist named bubba would be good too.

[NFATrustGuy]

I can't be sure, but I think I may have been contacted this afternoon by someone trying to come up with a news story. I'm pretty certain I didn't say anything incriminating, but we all know how a comment can be taken out of context.

From this point on, I'll definitely be more careful of who I talk with. Don't take it personally, but I'll probably ask a few more questions before I take on new gun trust clients.

RWW

PS. Somebody send me a PM if you hear my voice on some news station. I almost never watch TV for news so I'd probably never see it. Thanks.

[streetglideok]

Fox31 was the station that did a sting on a bunch of auto repair shops in the area early in the year. They did a good job at causing a mess at a sister facility to ours. In that sting, they used a Jeep Grand Cherokee as well.

[Sharpienads]

I linked it to Fox's FB page asking for comment. How long before they delete it? Or will they comment? I gave them the 'opportunity' to respond before I linked it to my FB page. :)

I posted the link there as well.

[griebel303]

Guess it's a time for me to quit using fox31 for news. Idiots. Good job to the guy who didn't go through with the sale and is passing the word

[generalmeow]

Is there any chance that they're trying to record people not agreeing to illegal transactions, to prove that private sales aren't a big deal?

[SideShow Bob]

Is there any chance that they're trying to record people not agreeing to illegal transactions, to prove that private sales aren't a big deal?

Yeah, sure....... If you beleive that, I have some ocean front property in AZ. that I would sell you cheap. You just need to wait for CA. to fall off first.

[68Charger]

Is there any chance that they're trying to record people not agreeing to illegal transactions, to prove that private sales aren't a big deal?

Bwhahahaha!!!! [hahhah-no][hahhah-no]

[bigshane]

Is there any chance that they're trying to record people not agreeing to illegal transactions, to prove that private sales aren't a big deal?
I wish that was the world we're living in. *sigh*

[Aloha_Shooter]

Is there any chance that they're trying to record people not agreeing to illegal transactions, to prove that private sales aren't a big deal?

[facepalm][fail][facepalm]

[def90]

Is there any chance that they're trying to record people not agreeing to illegal transactions, to prove that private sales aren't a big deal?

Yeah, that would make for great ratings and surely get them an investigative journalism award..

[rockhound]

You funny man, you make joke [ROFL2]

[tmleadr03]

Fox31 was the station that did a sting on a bunch of auto repair shops in the area early in the year. They did a good job at causing a mess at a sister facility to ours. In that sting, they used a Jeep Grand Cherokee as well.

What did they do?

[keylay31]

Ok, I must be completely ignorant. What part of the transaction was illegal?

[spongejosh]

Hypothetically if he called the cops on the spot and said they tried to buy the rifle with fake identities, could they have been arrested and charged? Would the local PD or sheriff actually show up?

[th3w01f]

Oh, if only they could have met up with an ATF agent selling a SBR or SBS..... Now that would have made for some good TV.

[BushMasterBoy]

I wouldn't be surprised if they try to infiltrate this forum too...

[USAFGopherMike]

What makes you think they haven't?

[Blockhead]

i would get a hoot hearing Pete Boyles talk about this.

[NFATrustGuy]

An update to my earlier post. It looks as though I overreacted. The inquiry I received turned out to be legit (I think). It was a phone inquiry which is a little unusual... and then the conversation was a bit unusual... which left me questioning if I had just been had... and then I signed on to this forum and saw this thread.

I guess my mind just connected all the dots and I assumed my goose was cooked. I still don't think I said anything that would give a news outlet a juicy quote, but I'll definitely be more careful in the future. I think I may actually add a field to my questionnaire that asks for your forum name in addition to the line asking "how did you hear about me?"

These are certainly strange times.

RWW

[sniper7]

I'm glad I don't own guns any more and don't have to deal with this nonsense

[Hound]

Gotcha news at its worst.

[streetglideok]

What did they do?


Sending you a pm to the link since its kind of off topic

[spleify]

SO you guys who posted on facebook, how do we see that and see if they comment on it.

[Jer]

Hypothetically if he called the cops on the spot and said they tried to buy the rifle with fake identities, could they have been arrested and charged? Would the local PD or sheriff actually show up?

Local PD? No. Hell no!

Sheriff. You bet your ass. As unfortunate as we here in Colorado are for a lot of our LE we should all be thankful for our Sheriff representation as they are truly on the side of freedom.

[OneGuy67]

Hypothetically if he called the cops on the spot and said they tried to buy the rifle with fake identities, could they have been arrested and charged? Would the local PD or sheriff actually show up?

If the OP hadn't recognized Julie Hayden and sold her a firearm, did either violate anything?

The law states, a private citizen may sell or transfer a firearm or ammunition to another private citizen without conducting the transaction through a licensed gun dealer, so long as both parties are citizens of Colorado and the seller reasonably knows the purchaser is not a prohibited person from owning firearms.

If the OP had called law enforcement, they would have showed up no matter if it was PD or SO. To be arrested and charged, they would have had to violate a state statute. Which one do you think they violated? You mentioned fake identities; did they present fraudulent documents or just give the OP a name other than their real name? Do you think that a private citizen telling another private citizen a different name other than their own is a crime? Because, if that is a crime, then a WHOLE lot of us would have committed a crime when we were younger and looking to pick up girls in bars with a false name!

I'm not looking to be confrontational in this. I wholeheartedly disagree with 'surprise journalism'.

[spqrzilla]

An update to my earlier post. It looks as though I overreacted. The inquiry I received turned out to be legit (I think). It was a phone inquiry which is a little unusual... and then the conversation was a bit unusual... which left me questioning if I had just been had... and then I signed on to this forum and saw this thread.

I guess my mind just connected all the dots and I assumed my goose was cooked. I still don't think I said anything that would give a news outlet a juicy quote, but I'll definitely be more careful in the future. I think I may actually add a field to my questionnaire that asks for your forum name in addition to the line asking "how did you hear about me?"

These are certainly strange times.

RWW
Now you are figuring out why I stopped offering NFA trusts.

[NFATrustGuy]

Now you are figuring out why I stopped offering NFA trusts.

No kidding! You wouldn't happen to have the number to that truck driving school, would you?

Maybe I should look into getting into a more respectable area of practice... Do you think there's room for another personal injury lawyer? :-)

[CO Hugh]

Also Nanny Bloomberg: http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/04/michael_bloombergs_gun_stings.html

pril 16, 2013Michael Bloomberg's Gun StingsBy William A. Levinson (http://www.americanthinker.com/william_a_levinson/)
The New York Daily News lauded (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/mayor-bloomberg-undercover-gun-stings-results-gripes-tucson-article-1.137655) the effectiveness of Mayor Michael Bloomberg's sting operation in which his office hired private investigators to buy guns without background checks at gun shows. The article omits, however, a warning from the U.S. Justice Department that Mayor "Kim Jong" Bloomberg's anti-Second Amendment vigilantism has strayed into a legal gray area, the black side of which is a felony (http://www.dontlie.org/faq.cfm) (straw firearm purchases). It is important to circulate this letter (http://www.nssf.org/share/PDF/JohnFeinblatt_ltr_NYC.pdf) as widely as possible, noting that at least one mayor resigned (http://www.nssf.org/share/PDF/070907_MooreResignationMAIG.pdf) from Bloomberg's Mayors Against Illegal Guns when he found out about it. I am sending copies of both letters to the mayor of Wilkes-Barre, Thomas Leighton.
Mayors Against Illegal Guns is the same organization that is now running advertisements (http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/03/michael_bloomberg_and_mayors_against_illegal_guns_ caught_lying_to_the_public.html), apparently using Mr. Bloomberg's money, to attack the Second Amendment. It is also the organization of which more than 1 percent of whose members (10 out of 800) have been convicted of, or are under indictment for, crimes (http://www.stopillegalmayors.com/)such as Gary Becker's (http://www.examiner.com/article/meet-the-former-mayors-from-mayors-against-illegal-guns)(Racine WI) attempted (http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/86273007.html) second-degree sexual assault of a child. James Schiliro (http://web.archive.org/web/20091209165717/http:/www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/members/members.shtml), the mayor of Marcus Hook PA, was recently charged (http://www.myfoxphilly.com/story/21756962/mayor-of-marcus-hook-arrested) with reckless endangerment that involved the discharge of a firearm. It therefore comes as little surprise that New York's mini-dictator strayed into a gray legal area that, had he strayed somewhat further, might have exposed not only him but also those acting under his direction to serious criminal charges. For the record, however, a Federal judge ruled (http://www.hoodathunkblog.com/2008/01/judge-rules-bloomberg-committed-no-crime-in-attempted-straw-purchases/)that Bloomberg did not actually cross the line that would have made his actions a crime.
Here is the text of the letter, which Michael A. Battle addressed to Mayor Bloomberg's Criminal Justice Coordinator, John Feinblatt, on February 6, 2007. The third paragraph is particularly important, and it warns the City of New York against taking Federal law into its own hands. Note particularly the phrase, "misrepresent that they are the actual purchases of the firearms when, in fact, the purchases are being made on behalf of another person or entity (for instance, on behalf of [New York] City)." It sounds like the DOJ is referring to straw firearm purchases.

Dear Mr. Feinblatt:
This letter is to follow up to the recent activities conducted by the City of New York with respect to 15 federally-licensed firearms dealers against which the City filed a civil lawsuit on May 15, 2006. As the Director of the Executive Office for United States Attorneys, I am writing to you on behalf of each United States Attorney in whose district the City of New York's contracted investigators took action.
As I communicated to you in May of 2006, the evaluation and investigation of this matter is within the jurisdiction of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF). Accordingly, the materials your office provided to ATF's New York Field Division were referred to the appropriate ATF field offices for evaluation. Recently, the ATF field offices concluded their evaluation and investigation, and consulted with their respective United States Attorney's Office. The United States Attorneys' offices in each district wherein the City of New York conducted activities have carefully reviewed the matters and considered all the materials. Each United States Attorney's Office has concluded that the circumstances surrounding the purchases do not rise to a level that would support a criminal prosecution.
Although a decision has been made not to move forward with case filings in these matters, you should be aware that there are potential legal liabilities that may attach when persons outside of law enforcement undertake actions typically reserved for law enforcement agents. This risk is particularly acute when such persons, however well-intentioned, but without proper law enforcement authority, misrepresent that they are the actual purchases of the firearms when, in fact, the purchases are being made on behalf of another person or entity (for instance, on behalf of the City). In addition, civilian efforts can unintentionally interrupt or jeopardize ongoing criminal investigations.
We appreciate your interest in this matter. Please do not hesitate to contact the Department of Justice if we can be of assistance in other matters.
The U.S. Justice Department is apparently not the only law enforcement agency that had a serious problem (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/10/AR2007051001377.html)with the Little Dictator's activities.

Convinced that illegal gun sales in Virginia contribute to violent crime in New York, Bloomberg has been arming private investigators with hidden cameras and sending them into Virginia gun stores to try to make illegal buys. The process involves "straw purchases," in which one person legally fills out a form and buys a gun for someone else.
...[Virginia Attorney General Robert] McDonnell has sent Bloomberg a letter warning him that he and his agents could be charged with a felony if they conduct further stings without the help of Virginia or federal law enforcement officials.
From where we sit, Kim Jong Bloomberg is a wannabee dictator if not like his North Korean counterpart, at least on the same continuum: one who thinks his billions of dollars entitle him to lord it over not only the serfs in his manor (New York City), but the rest of the country. We must make sure that every member of Mayors Against Illegal Guns, as well as the voting public, knows that the Justice Department and at least one state's Attorney General denounced in the harshest terms this individual's efforts to take Federal law into his own hands.
William A. Levinson, P.E. is the author of several books on business management including content on organizational psychology, as well as manufacturing productivity and quality.


Page Printed from: http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/../2013/04/michael_bloombergs_gun_stings.html at April 16, 2013 - 03:45:11 PM CDT

[spongejosh]

Do you think that a private citizen telling another private citizen a different name other than their own is a crime?

I'm not a lawyer but I believe lying in order to buy a firearm is a crime. Also if the reporter lives in Denver they would have been lying to get around the Denver ban. If the seller didn't recognize the reporter, he wouldn't have Knowingly sold to them therefore not breaking the law. Maybe since they didn't complete the transaction it wouldn't have have been a crime and the cops would have let everyone walk. BUT there would be a record of the incident for other news agencies to pick up.

I guess my question is if you're selling private party and during the transaction you find out the other person is lying, after stopping the sale is it your duty to report them on the spot or to give their info to BATFE after the fact?

[Aloha_Shooter]

I guess my question is if you're selling private party and during the transaction you find out the other person is lying, after stopping the sale is it your duty to report them on the spot or to give their info to BATFE after the fact?

If not your duty, it's in your best interests to report the attempt to someone (not necessarily BATFE) so you have a contemporaneous record that you not only didn't aid them in evading the law but notified authorities that someone was trying to do so.

[OneGuy67]

I'm not a lawyer but I believe lying in order to buy a firearm is a crime. Also if the reporter lives in Denver they would have been lying to get around the Denver ban. If the seller didn't recognize the reporter, he wouldn't have Knowingly sold to them therefore not breaking the law. Maybe since they didn't complete the transaction it wouldn't have have been a crime and the cops would have let everyone walk. BUT there would be a record of the incident for other news agencies to pick up.

I guess my question is if you're selling private party and during the transaction you find out the other person is lying, after stopping the sale is it your duty to report them on the spot or to give their info to BATFE after the fact?

Again, I'm not looking to be confrontational here and I don't like the gonzo "surprise", "stick-a-mike-in-your-face-and-make-you-look-stupid-on-camera" journalism, but your belief that lying to someone about their name in a private transaction is a crime, isn't in the statutes. We don't know where Julie Hayden lives, so the premise that she might have broken a Denver municipal ordinance isn't relevant either.

To try to answer your question, I believe it would depend upon what the person was lying about. Lying about being a Colorado resident, would negate the transaction as you can only conduct that private transaction with someone else who is a Colorado resident. Lying about not being a prohibited person? Maybe. I would be on board with you reporting the person to local law enforcement, state law enforcement and/or the BATFE.

[Big E3]

I believe that you will avoid a lot of unnecessary brain damage if you just put in a small statement in your add similar to this to discourage "straw purchasers" (media) from contacting you about what you are selling.

"If you do not have any form of legal picture ID to verify age and residency we will not be able to complete this transaction."

I don't care what name they call themselves as long as the I.D. has a picture and address. If we conduct all sales with some due diligence the only real way to truly combat straw purchases is through the prosecution of existing laws.

I don't have any idea what is illegal about this statement in his report:

"They tried to buy 30 round magazines just outside Denver claiming they were legal residents of Clear Creek County."

I don't think 30 round magazines are illegal yet and I don't believe you have to be a resident of Colorado to buy one.

[Danimal]

I just got this from RMGO. I thought that I would pass it on. If it is a repost you can trudge up here through the snow and I will apologize to you directly.



https://blu176.mail.live.com/Handlers/ImageProxy.mvc?bicild=&canary=Ba3bE3djMkOtjkUn%2b3PBuL%2fkxdpB5yPoOhbzsZf yeKA%3d0&url=http%3a%2f%2fparacom.paramountcommunication.co m%2fcimages%2fd9b0764a441755fae84a0de3b2016bbd%2fR MGO-Logo.jpgIt has been brought to our attention that FOX31 reporters Julie Hayden and Josh Bernstein have been attempting to set up straw purchases via online firearm markets.
Keep an eye out for these FOX31 reporters trying to SCAM you in their "investigative reporting":


https://blu176.mail.live.com/Handlers/ImageProxy.mvc?bicild=&canary=Ba3bE3djMkOtjkUn%2b3PBuL%2fkxdpB5yPoOhbzsZf yeKA%3d0&url=http%3a%2f%2fparacom.paramountcommunication.co m%2fcimages%2fd9b0764a441755fae84a0de3b2016bbd%2fj oshb.jpg

Josh Bernstein

https://blu176.mail.live.com/Handlers/ImageProxy.mvc?bicild=&canary=Ba3bE3djMkOtjkUn%2b3PBuL%2fkxdpB5yPoOhbzsZf yeKA%3d0&url=http%3a%2f%2fparacom.paramountcommunication.co m%2fcimages%2fd9b0764a441755fae84a0de3b2016bbd%2fj ulieh.jpg

Julie Hayden



Many of our members have made us aware of these activities through a website called armslist.com.
If you are selling a firearm through this website, or any other website for that matter, please make sure that you exercise caution and your best judgment when completing a transaction.
Remember, while journalists have used these kinds of tactics in the past to paint gun owners in a negative light, they are most likely not violating any laws by doing so.
Again, make sure you are vigilant when you are conducting your firearms transactions online.
For Freedom,
https://blu176.mail.live.com/Handlers/ImageProxy.mvc?bicild=&canary=Ba3bE3djMkOtjkUn%2b3PBuL%2fkxdpB5yPoOhbzsZf yeKA%3d0&url=http%3a%2f%2fparacom.paramountcommunication.co m%2fcimages%2fd9b0764a441755fae84a0de3b2016bbd%2fD WBsignature.jpg

Dudley Brown
Executive Director

[Danimal]

God dammit it is a repost. Nevermind.

[Great-Kazoo]

God dammit it is a repost. Nevermind.

Stop listening to dudley, he's behind the curve.

[CO Hugh]

Hmm maybe to make sure that you don't wind up on camera looking like a fool, inquire into their beliefs, including whether they support the 2nd amendment, the NRA then a list of politically correct causes such as gay rights. Compel them to join the NRA.

Sorry ill advised attempt at humor. pick global warming, common sense gun control, or the children, as favorite pc topic. Not trying to detract from gun debate.

[Ridge]

Hmm maybe to make sure that you don't wind up on camera looking like a fool, inquire into their beliefs, including whether they support the 2nd amendment, the NRA then a list of politically correct causes such as gay rights. Compel them to joint the NRA.

I support gun rights, but don't support the NRA. They don't support me. And I'm in favor of gay rights.

[spqrzilla]

No kidding! You wouldn't happen to have the number to that truck driving school, would you?

Maybe I should look into getting into a more respectable area of practice... Do you think there's room for another personal injury lawyer? :-)
Workers Comp.

[Jer]

I support gun rights, but don't support the NRA. They don't support me. And I'm in favor of gay rights.

+1

Rights is rights & I'm far to busy fighting for mine to waste energy trying to deny someone else theirs.

[Great-Kazoo]

Workers Comp.

Amen to that.

[hatidua]

Hmm maybe to make sure that you don't wind up on camera looking like a fool, inquire into their beliefs, including whether they support the 2nd amendment, the NRA then a list of politically correct causes such as gay rights. Compel them to joint the NRA.

Gay rights and gun ownership are not mutually exclusive. I somewhat doubt my gay friends like there being an NRA sticker on my car but I'm a good bit past caring what others think of me - a tangible benefit of aging.

[Rucker61]

I support gun rights, but don't support the NRA. They don't support me. And I'm in favor of gay rights.

"like"

[Great-Kazoo]

Gay rights and gun ownership are not mutually exclusive. I somewhat doubt my gay friends like there being an NRA sticker on my car but I'm a good bit past caring what others think of me - a tangible benefit of aging.

I have no stickers and could care less what others think or believe. Way beyond that, unless it's an O-B 2012 then all bets are off.

[Aloha_Shooter]

The NRA doesn't give a damn what you do in the bedroom or with who as long as you support the Second Amendment. I don't know where any of you get this shit that they do.

[RussDXT]

This is the cell number they are using. (916) 601-5342CA, USA

[Jer]

This is the cell number they are using. (916) 601-5342CA, USA

Imma call 'em right now!

[Great-Kazoo]

Texting is your friend. Yo bitches lokng 4 some hrdwre,

[Jer]

Texting is your friend. Yo bitches lokng 4 some hrdwre,
Not my friend. My BEST friend! lol

[Cylinder Head]

Texting is your friend. Yo bitches lokng 4 some hrdwre,

Lol this is happening right now.

[hatidua]

The NRA doesn't give a damn what you do in the bedroom or with who as long as you support the Second Amendment. I don't know where any of you get this shit that they do.

Probably confusion with RMGO.

[streetglideok]

I support gun rights, but don't support the NRA. They don't support me. And I'm in favor of gay rights.

Wasn't aware the National Rifle Association was supposed to take a stance on gay rights. Unless you confused them for the National Rectal Association,lol. Right now, gay rights aren't under assault, its GUN rights that are. Liberals are all too happy to bribe gays into voting for them. Not giving some support to the NRA, and other pro-gun organizations, is just like voting democrat in 2012, and actually thinking they still want to bring back amerika, and not take our guns.

[generalmeow]

I sent them an email to ask why they are doing that. Doubt I'll hear back.

I got an email back. She said dont jump to conclusions and wait to see the report.

intriguing.

[halletts]

I got an email back. She said dont jump to conclusions and wait to see the report.

intriguing.

Any idea about when the report will be delivered?