CBI Checks, aren't they supposed to be purged?

Printable View

07-24-2012, 09:40
brianut

CBI Checks, aren't they supposed to be purged?

I was of the understanding that when a background was done and verified you are clean, then the "check" was not recorded or kept on file.

I do not remember where I had heard or seen that, but didn't believe it and now I for sure don't as the authorities pulled up records of Holmes' firearms purchases over the last 3 months.

from here http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/p...gally-16826588

Holmes' gun purchases include:
— On May 28, six days after buying the first Glock, he purchased the shotgun from Bass Pro Shops in Denver.
— On June 7, Holmes bought the AR-15 assault rifle at a Gander Mountain store in Thornton, Colo.
— On July 6, Holmes returned to the Bass Pro Shops store in Denver and bought the other Glock pistol.

I thought that maybe they used credit card info to find that, but I think that would typically just state how much he spent at a specific store and not necessarily what was purchased.

I would have to assume that anything firearms related bought with a credit or debit card has been and will be for sure traced.

Maybe I am not paranoid in only paying cash for these items.

Does anyone else do cash only when buying gun stuff?
I guess for me it is mainly anything more than a box here and there.
Example: I bought a box of .380 at Walmart and payed with a card.
but the 2k of .22 I bought at Bass Pro I payed cash and walked.
07-24-2012, 10:02
sniper7

He used a credit card I believe.
they had the serial numbers of the weapons recovered.
they find out from the manufacturer which distributor the guns went to and then which ffl they went to. ATF then goes to the ffl to get the records of the sales.
it is a backdoor to registration. More man power needed but not a full on accessible list.
07-24-2012, 10:04
hatidua

When those three Dougherty siblings were being chased by authorities, the news was already reporting exactly what weapons they had before their journey came to an end on I-25.
07-24-2012, 10:04
DeusExMachina

The ATF looks up the serial number of the firearm and finds where it was purchased. They contact the store and the store finds the 4473 they are required to keep on file for X years and provides the ATF with whatever information they requested.

So, no, they're not. However it only works in certain ways, supposedly. For example they can't go "show me all the guns that James Holmes from Aurora, CO has purchased", they need the serial numbers.
07-24-2012, 10:16
DD977GM2

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeusExMachina

The ATF looks up the serial number of the firearm and finds where it was purchased. They contact the store and the store finds the 4473 they are required to keep on file for X years and provides the ATF with whatever information they requested.

So, no, they're not. However it only works in certain ways, supposedly. For example they can't go "show me all the guns that James Holmes from Aurora, CO has purchased", they need the serial numbers.

I believe the 4473s are supposed to be kept by the vendor for 30 years
07-24-2012, 10:21
asmo

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeusExMachina

So, no, they're not. However it only works in certain ways, supposedly. For example they can't go "show me all the guns that James Holmes from Aurora, CO has purchased", they need the serial numbers.

Unless of course your FFL uses an automated system that allows for this type of search. The request usually comes as: Who purchased firearm serial number ABCDEFG and what other items have they purchased from you.

If you can't comply on the second half no biggie - if you refuse to comply on the second half then the pain starts.

This is 12+ years old but its still relevant: http://www.davekopel.com/2A/LawRev/C...ATFtracing.htm

This is more recent and still relevant: http://www.policyarchive.org/handle/...2006-06-16.pdf

Oh and both the FBI and the ATF have a unit dedicated to Firearms Tracing.
07-24-2012, 10:22
Mazin

Quote:

Originally Posted by DD977GM2

I believe the 4473s are supposed to be kept by the vendor for 30 years

Or until they no longer renew their FFL, then they send the 4473's to the ATF. That was what I had heard a few years back when I had a buddy running a shop.
07-24-2012, 10:22
DeusExMachina

Quote:

Originally Posted by DD977GM2

I believe the 4473s are supposed to be kept by the vendor for 30 years

I think it depends on the locality. There's also if the shop goes out of business, they submit all 4473s to the ATF who keeps them forever.
07-24-2012, 10:27
Great-Kazoo

FFL holds on to them. if FFL sells the business or does not renew his ffl, off the forms go to ATF[e]

As mentioned above. Serial number & mfg info allows feds to contact mfg, who then directs them to vendor or ffl . Once ffl is contacted the 4473 search begins. That is how they know who purchased what & for how much. Not through CBI but just plain old police work.
07-24-2012, 11:13
Whistler

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianut

I was of the understanding that when a background was done and verified you are clean, then the "check" was not recorded or kept on file.

I do not remember where I had heard or seen that, but didn't believe it and now I for sure don't as the authorities pulled up records of Holmes' firearms purchases over the last 3 months.

from here http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/p...gally-16826588

Holmes' gun purchases include:
— On May 28, six days after buying the first Glock, he purchased the shotgun from Bass Pro Shops in Denver.
— On June 7, Holmes bought the AR-15 assault rifle at a Gander Mountain store in Thornton, Colo.
— On July 6, Holmes returned to the Bass Pro Shops store in Denver and bought the other Glock pistol.

I thought that maybe they used credit card info to find that, but I think that would typically just state how much he spent at a specific store and not necessarily what was purchased.

I would have to assume that anything firearms related bought with a credit or debit card has been and will be for sure traced.

Maybe I am not paranoid in only paying cash for these items.

Does anyone else do cash only when buying gun stuff?
I guess for me it is mainly anything more than a box here and there.
Example: I bought a box of .380 at Walmart and payed with a card.
but the 2k of .22 I bought at Bass Pro I payed cash and walked.

Except for utilities & on-line we use cash for virtually everything else. Wouldn't use a card on-line but PayPal and I have agreed to disagree. Folks I didn't tell already know enough about my business and it's none of theirs.