Just one. And you may be right, you may not, but it's something to give the antis to remove registration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
Personally, I'm for this. If something must be done, then let it be at least a little reasonable.
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Just one. And you may be right, you may not, but it's something to give the antis to remove registration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
Personally, I'm for this. If something must be done, then let it be at least a little reasonable.
So take a bite of the sandwhich and leave the peanuts (sesame seeds) out and not call it eating the whole thing? This state needs an enema.
What about mags?
I don't live there, I don't have 'skin' in the game, I don't know who is negotiating and how much power they have.
I say that you support getting as much saved as you can with the minimum number of votes. That might not be popular among some. I understand the no-not anything position, because as soon as you make this deal, they will be back.
They always will be back, but I'd rather have something than nothing.
To me, the things in order you want to avoid are
Out-right ban
Registration
Mag limits
I don't know where the whole AWB thing will end up at after SCOTUS decides. Rational readers of precedent and logic would say that AWBs would be struck down, probably with the court we have- yes if Kennedy or a lib is replaced. If AWBs stand, we might be begging for a baby NFA or CCW type 'license' to keep our stuff.
I think that things like this are elitist and a bit classist when it comes to mandating resources to keep our basic rights. But that is reality. We have had too many sh!t heads act out with guns- and blame and rationale can be laid in a lot of places outside of gun ownership- but we live in democracies at the local level. If their push to do 'something' can be confined to do the least amount of damage- all the better.
If you can leave the state mag level BS and have the deal above- that would be an improvement over the current BS.
BTW- the moratorium is a dead fish offer- it kind of stinks. You can't bind future council decisions, as far as I understand. You can put it in the law, but it would be like saying that no one can sue to try to get this overturned.
Especially if it leaves mags out of it, it is this is like being molested under your clothes versus raped in the other version. If it pushes people to get their CCW, mores the better.
Be wary of people outside of Boulder that might trash the deal. Really easy to do when your crap isn't on the line.
Wasn't that mass murderer in CA a cop? (not to rag on cops), but I still haven't found a mass shooter or murderer that was an NRA member.
If there is ever a "mass" shooting in Boulder while this is in effect, it should immediately be repealed since it's clearly not working and is instead an unnecessary burden on the rights of the people.
Why do people who have serious out of state money (moms demand strip club Action) have any say or right to be at anyone's table, except their own.? Also what qualifications does a group of never been around guns except for a photo op bring to the table.
There is nothing in the proposal restricting magazine size in any way. It doesn't even appear in the document outside of the definition of "Assault Weapon".Quote:
Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand
This is one thing I am worried about. Things are very fragile right now after the rally completely backfired.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand
I think their comments about non-Boulder residents speaking at the hearing are extremely hypocritical, and would be hilarious if people didn't eat that shit up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Great-Kazoo
If you believe or think the jackal is content to walk away from the carcass with it only 1/2 eaten, you're fooling yourself. This isn't about "concessions" from the anti-gun side.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand
This is part of what i call the Anti-gun 5 yr plan. Or as others call it Death by 1000 cuts.
Sure we'll agree to these modest proposals, now. You get this Kennedy or Polis as .gov. What Boulder will sign off (wink, wink) on is merely the beginning
Are those people brokering the "deal" from the 2A side also agreeing not to sue based on pre-emption?
Shall not be infringed, will not comply.
What do people not understand, this is not a compromise, the left is not giving up anything, they gain everything and the 2nd is infringed yet again under the myth of "compromise"
YAA!!!!!! Rah-rah. I just waved an American flag and light of a party popper.Quote:
Originally Posted by Great-Kazoo
Now back to reality playing out in real time.
You want to lose it all or only some. This is democracy (ETA: at the local level). You get what you can get with 50%+1 vote. What you say is exactly true, but this isn't like the national game where you have two sides to play against each other- and we hold the majority. This is 100% against us and they could vote in CA/NJ/NY level of stupidity if they wanted to.
That would show them!!!! ???? You willing to live under the same restrictions as Boulder if the 'deal' doesn't pass? I'd love to have this deal in Denver, better than what we have.
Elections have consequences. The reps we have will vote the way they want. We could all wish it wasn't this way, but this is reality. Until you get a SCOTUS decision that lays down sharp lines, keep as much as you can as long as you can. Someone else can be the test case. Northbridgelakepark or whatever in Chicago is a great one.
I really think there isn't a deal. I don't know why they would make one. When Bloomberg's people hear about it, they will come down HARD on anyone not toeing the line. Happened in Denver when there was a consensus on council for the smallest of a moderation on the 15 round confiscation.
You realize that Bloomberg's people would see this as a huge victory for the gun rights side?
Fondled or raped?
I'm all about the foreplay.
This deal is anything but certain at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand
I'm not sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by .455_Hunter
Everyone is always willing to martyr someone else.
Anyone have any head count on the Colorado Supreme Court? Facts, precedent, the law, and logic are all good. You have a majority Progressive block on the court and they'll vote they way their told.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand
Back to reality ??? Looks like it's time to change your board name to I'll compromise .
Is this really a tenable option at this point? Where we are now, we could lose everything. Honestly, damage control needs to be ongoing until the Supreme Court gets off their ass and makes a ruling.Quote:
Originally Posted by thedave1164
Yea, yea. So original. You have a bad deal and a worse deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Great-Kazoo
https://youtu.be/BNjcuZ-LiSY
Your plan is for someone else to take the worse deal. Great plan. You're screaming 'or death' for the guy in line in front of you. How brave and noble. I forgot, what's the song and poem they wrote about that...
There is no compromise. There are no two sides on that council. That the law could go from what it was to what was mentioned with out any real power is kind of amazing. In Boulder of all places.
The RMGO mental-midget, all-or-nothing attitude is really self defeating.
I know this is the interwebs and people spout off absolutist positions and posture to make themselves feel big and good, but sweet Jesus- when will our community understand the nature of local politics. Don't want this position, elect different people. Crap and one hand and wishes in the other...
But sure, let's martyr someone else..
2:32
https://youtu.be/tRJlo2WRDbw?t=2m32s
ETA: The title of this thread is 'AR15 Ban' and it could be "Get a CCW". Death or Cake.
Should we have said no to CCW until we got constitutional carry?
Ding, ding, ding. Winner of the clear vision sweepstakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by boxy
It is the only option.Quote:
Originally Posted by boxy
CCW law was a gain, not a loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand
So you would rather have our rights greatly infringed, rather than slightly infringed?Quote:
Originally Posted by thedave1164
You'd rather accelerate the loss of our rights, than slow it?
There is no Option C: Not infringe. They're going to infringe. It's a question of how much.
I am not going to capitulate and give up my rights, no matter what they think they can get away with.Quote:
Originally Posted by boxy
I refuse to play by their rules, this is not a game.
Well, you don't have to play at all, because you don't live here. When it comes to Evans, you can play hardball. And it may work.... but it won't work in Boulder.Quote:
Originally Posted by thedave1164
In some ways, but we didn't get everything we wanted, isn't that giving in? We are being infringed. What if they pass the worse bill and then work to get the new bill- would that be a win or loss?Quote:
Originally Posted by thedave1164
It is a game for you. You have about as much skin in the game as a mohel who can't make the cut.Quote:
Originally Posted by thedave1164
I actually don't even know what your position is? You seem to want option C in a binary choice. You're playing Russian Roulette with a full cylinder- but with someone elses head. You're like the drunk friend that keeps getting in fights in bars and I end up getting punched pulling you back. I can do this all day long.
The question is. What did Boulder offer to give up for their part?
No registration and no mag limits, for one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Great-Kazoo
So the equivalent of "If you let us punch you in the mouth, we won't kick you in the nuts and break your fingers".Quote:
Originally Posted by boxy
...until we feel like it again.
The only way this could be even palatable is if a violation was at MOST a petty offense, punishable with a fine of no more than $10.
So they're sticking to state 15 rd limit. Whew...they sure did compromise with us didn't they.Quote:
Originally Posted by boxy
Question is. Outside the gullible , a few members here, east and west coast transplants. WTF is going to register a firearm at the county level... Let alone register any gun at all.
I like my fingers, I need them to shoot.Quote:
Originally Posted by TFOGGER
Well, considering they were going to go to 10, I'd say that's somewhat of a W.Quote:
Originally Posted by Great-Kazoo
I was going to move out of the city before registering any of my firearms, it's Boulder municipality, not Boulder County.
Do you have any NFA items?
I still can't figure out what your point is? It seems that unless Boulder starts handing out bandoliers of ammo, you won't be happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Great-Kazoo
Yes the deal sucks, the other one sucks more. So you have these people voting and someone has done some work to get a winning a majority to move. The council has already voted 100% for the older version.
You seem to think that this is a compromise. It isn't. Compromise involves two parties of relative levels of power that have something to trade to reach a relative mutually optimal acceptable solution. That isn't where we are. The council doesn't have to listen to us at all. They actually don't have to do anything to mitigate the old version. Someone has gone in with there with no bargaining power and been able to use old school persuasion, in lieu of leverage, to change people's mind. You'd label them a traitor. What they got, if there is an actual 'got' here, is the political equivalent of Daniel fending off the lions and then for lunch feeding of the multitudes with a couple of loaves and a fish- and you're sitting there bitching that there isn't an dessert and we throw him back to the lions.
I'm guessing your way would be to walk in and tell the council its your right and F U.
Bloomberg prays for people with that kind of mentality.
I'd rather have access to ARs than 10+ round mags. But still good they're throwing out the 10 round limitQuote:
Originally Posted by boxy
LOL, you girls might as well just register with your betters now.
In the original version, possession of an unregistered AR would be illegal. This is by far and away a better deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Will1776
That's the point of this alternative path, no one has to register.Quote:
Originally Posted by thedave1164
Like.... what the hell. There's a way out of this where Boulder gun owners remain relatively unscathed... and you're shitting all over it?
The density in this thread rivals a neutron star.
You are making a deal with the devil, haven't you been paying attention, they will not be satisfied until all guns are outlawed and all gun owners are outlaws.Quote:
Originally Posted by boxy
I have been involved in the fight for gun rights for far too long, and have seen their tactics, and every time gun owners capitulate to their "compromise" they get screwed.
But hey, I know it has never worked before but why not try it again, it just wasn't done right before
Or what?
Deal with the devil? I'd rather spend time in purgatory than hell.
I don't know why you call it a compromise. People have gotten them to reduce the list of bad things. Until you get a council with a majority of people that respect the 2A, this is what you get.
For some reason people would rather have the worse version and something bitch about. At no cost to them.
The whole conversation is a bit silly.
I never thought I'd see virtue-signaling on our side.
SMH
Good luck with that
You should march outside their homes, and sue for violation of your rights, get creative.
Go on the offensive instead of playing defense all the time.
Run Carr out of town on a rail, you know there is stuff in his past that even the Boulder City council couldn't stomach.
What has what i own have anything to do with a leftist gun grabbing county, who fucked gun owners over. Yeah it's a victory. if you're content they used lube before sticking up the proverbial keyster. Instead of doing us dry.Quote:
Originally Posted by boxy
Look it's clear we're not going to agree on what compromise is, or how happy some of you are they didn't make you register guns. Or was that Just the AR style of firearm?
Just "Assault Weapons", so yes ARs, AKs, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Great-Kazoo
At this point, I'll take what I can get. One thing that we can both agree on is that it sucks that they are proposing something in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Great-Kazoo
Yes, I am indeed that guy. And your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
Transplants claiming to be pro 2a?Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
You've been outed as a Cali spy!!!! You brought this hex upon our house.Quote:
Originally Posted by boxy
Muuuuuhaaahaaaahaaaa.