Your "Go to home defense SHTF firearm!

Unless you are getting attacked by bats or are in a Hitchcock film.

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Originally Posted by Cameron

That's just complete bull shit.

Cameron

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Straight and to the point. I like it.

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Originally Posted by coloccw

Yes, there was nothing that could be done. Multiple organ failure due to the perforations and the shockwave from each projectile and the uncontrolable loss of blood (can't plug that many holes in a 6-7" area compared to a few from a rifle/handgun). Only a handful of the pellets passed competely through, no marks in the drywall behind him.

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Gee, that's just too bad. How big was this guy, was he just a typical skinny thug?

Just need to figure out where to mount the 1911

http://www.geocities.jp/ar_itiban/AR-15/m4masker.jpg



Yes I am J/K
1911 primary

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Originally Posted by iamhunter

See, I thought this was a forum of like-minded enthusiasts who could have intelligent, civilized discussion. But I guess attacking people's opinions and calling them "Mall Ninjas" is a better way to promote community.

Obviously I didn't think that a knowledgeable gunman would take my claim as shooting in the "general direction" at face value. What I really meant is you can afford to be LESS PRECISE with your aim (which is a common occurence under stress)

But since you seem to more of a facts oriented guy, let's present some of those.

At a distance of 5 feet or under, a 18" barreled 12 gauge shot gun (using 00 buckshot) will provide a 2" spread, carrying the wadding into the wound with the pellets, and creating a solid 2" hole.

As distance increases to 10 feet, your looking at a 4" hole,

at distances greater than 20 feet, you no longer had a solid hole and instead have a spread of pellets 9"-12", creating a still incapacitating and quite probably fatal injury, and no chance of wall penetration.

So, just using straight statistics, as compared to .223

@ <5 feet, you have a 450% greater allowed margin of aiming error

@ <10 feet this increases to 900%

and @ >20 feet this increases to 2500%

As compared to .45 ACP these numbers are 225%, 450%, and 1250% respectively.

If you would like to reproduce these numbers on your own to test for accuracy,
Now you may argue that these percentages represent only inches in real life, but when shot placement counts, those inches could make the difference between life or death.


And as for penetration, I've actually run my own tests (based on an article I read).

Using leftover drywall from a remodel I did (fully intact) I simulated walls by connecting two pieces of drywall to 2x4 studs and stuffing the insides iwth left over insulation material.

I set up three walls at 10 foot intervals, and started shooting.

Both Hornady TAP 55 grain and 60 grain (common "self defense" rounds)
Penetrated all three simuated walls, although some of the 60 grain bullets had begun to fragment by the third wall.


45 ACP penetrated also penetrated all three walls, as did 9MM, and exited the third wall


The buckshot also showed some penetration through the third wall, but the spread was widened to the point where much of the buckshot didn't even hit the wall, and there was a significant amount of spread between each piece that did.

At the end of the day, its still your personal choice, but a 1250-2500% greater allowed margin of aiming error, and a lower chance of accidental injury to inhabitants was enough for me to go with the shotgun as my weapon of choice for home invasion.


but hey.... What do us uneducated mall ninjas know? [M2]

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Since we're just trying to be "LESS PRECISE" I won't even bother getting into things like "variables", "generalizations" and "controls".

I had a drink or two after work and I would like to stir the pot a little in regard to the whole buckshot vs. birdshot thing.

I have heard stories (that means I have no way to prove or substantiate the following claim) that home invaders would wear the tread of old tires cut into a vest to stop birdshot when they would break into a home. I'm not sure I would trust my home defense to a cartridge that could be overcome with such a simple device.

On the other hand, I have tried 'ghetto slugs' which would not work in a pump action, but when shooting a break action shottie you cut around the plastic of a shot shell just above the bottom of the wad so when you shoot the wad and plastic part of the shell come out. This is both stupid and dangerous but I've seen what it can do to corrugated steel and it puts a nice hole in it at 15 feet.

I think you all have it wrong on shotguns and which shell is best.

What you guys really need is mini grenades in a 12 gauge shell with cyanide coated shrapnel.

I think it would do the trick[Coffee]

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Originally Posted by BadShot

I still can't believe you guys actually have GUNS! How.. horrible

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Agreed.

In watching a LOT of TV cops shows I have noticed a really effective procedure to ensure your safety...

Enter house, check behind one door and if a ninja does not kick your ass into next week, yell "CLEAR" and you will be fine. I have never seen anyone killed, attacked or even spat at after yelling "CLEAR". Not sure why it works, but it sure seems to be 100% reliable!

Try it, you will feel so much better. I do this everytime I go into the office, house, or public restroom.

No, heavier but not fat. approx 5'11"-6' 235lbs

He must have worn his heart on his sleeve. ;)