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Started working CQB while on active duty (2 tours with the 82nd, 1 with 1ID). Been serving high risk search warrants in the law enforcement arena since 2003 and currently have several hundred actual warrant services. Also tasked with doing continuing education for the crew I do warrant services with, teaching building searches to police recruits, teaching active shooter response to in-service dept members, etc etc. I try to catch CQB classes whenever possible in order to see/try new TTPS and have done CQB courses with Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, and various police groups. Need other qualifications?Quote:
Originally Posted by <MADDOG>
If we want to talk about pure firearms training; I've logged classes with Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, Scott Reitz, Paul Howe, Pat Rogers, Kyle Defoor, Jason Falla, so on and so forth.
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Anyway; who the fuck "audits" training? I'm getting older by the day, but I refuse to believe CQB or any other training is called "audited". I reserve that term for tax returns, SoX, etc...
Auditing in the sense of having a free slot in the class for the purpose of reviewing the material. Typically certificates/prizes for competitions within the class arent awarded when one audits the class.
NCPatrolAR is off to an exciting start. I too have taken one of Kelley's classes and he covered the most important thing I look for in a class, SAFETY. As long as that is covered, learning can take place at all levels. In the OP video, only bad things can happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by NCPatrolAR
Yeah, but if someone gets killed because of poor safety habits or bad tactics at least they died doing something they loved. Thus the rest of us mere mortals shouldn't criticize the video. [/sarcasm]Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperiorDG
Ditto. I for one am glad to have NCPatrolAR among our ranks and look forward to more of his contributions.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperiorDG
Also, I took the same class as SuperiorDG (a 2-day tactical rifle course) and found his scrutiny on safety was superb. Vocal commands were repeated back from the students, known actions for those commands were established hour-one of day-one, muzzle control, trigger finger control, gun-handling on the line, etc were all clearly upheld by all. If safety is anyone's beef with KellyTTE, they're barking up the wrong tree. As for his real life level of experience, I cannot comment because I do not know, but he was a fine instructor nonetheless, and I came out of the class with increased confidence and recognition of things I needed to work on... so in my mind mission accomplished.
A man charging folks money to teach something he's never done seems like the very definition of someone being out of their lane.Quote:
Originally Posted by NCPatrolAR
Like I said in my post above; You don't need to be a gunfighter to teach marksmanship or safe weapons handling... but that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about someone who is charging people to provide professional instruction on a subject he's never done professionally.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. From what I saw, Kelly's material comes straight from Paul Howe and didn't contain any kind of freelance material. It's really no different than people at Benning teaching CQB to basic trainees when the instructors themselves had 0 real world application of the material being taught. A person with practical application time can provide insights that the other instructor can't but that doesn't mean he can't teach you the core material (slicing the pie, entry methods for corner/center-fed rooms, PODs, etc).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick-Boy
I'm not commenting on your materials Kelly. I'm commenting on the fact that you have no background to be teaching CQB. Period. You can name drop all you like (I've taken classes from MSG Howe too...). The fact that you're trying to charge people to come learn CQB from you strikes me as dishonest at best, flat dangerous at worst.
Obfuscate all you like. Drag up lightfighter, who I choose to train with, the advice your OIC(?) gave you. Whatever. At the end of the day none of that changes the fact that your resume is too shallow to be teaching people gunfighting. You've never done it. You've never been in an organization that does it when it was going on. You've taken some classes from men who actually put it on the line and you've taught AFA Cadets who play gun-games. You should take a hard look at yourself Kelly. Your priorities are skewed.
I just have to say this- This resume pretty much puts you in the same area as the former SF 18B who taught our CQB/MOUT class I took... granted it was for PSD, not infantry tactics (two very different sets of tactics), but yeah, anyone who has done that much pretty much knows their stuff. If you vouch for Kelly, then I'll have to say "Where do I sign up for one of his classes?" [Beer]Quote:
Originally Posted by NCPatrolAR
ETA: My question for Mick- I've done CQB training, I've done breach training, I've done PSD training (to include driving, formations, and close protection), but never actually done the actual job.... Let's say I go out and take a bunch of CQB courses, and decide that I'm competent enough on the subject, and can preform adequately. But since I've never actually done it professionally in a real-life environment (training only, mind you) I'll never be qualified to teach it? Just clarify that for me please. Because by that logic, I've never been in a firefight, yet I have spent countless hours training people on the M4/M16 platform for combat scenarios, trained our unit officers on the M9 combat pistol course, and taught PSD operations, but since I have no real world applications I'm not qualified, right?
I'm not particularly educated on CQB tactics, beyond some basics. However, I'm in complete agreement with NCPatrolAR (welcome to the forum, btw - nice to have somebody with your level of experience on board to contribute!) in that real world experience can lend some nice insight, but shouldn't be an absolute pre-requisite to teach. Competency, proficiency, and common sense should be enough.