Dems want Colorado Red Flag Law

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Originally Posted by CavSct1983

The lesson is KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT. Psychologists and Doctors are not anyone's friend and thinking one is "blowing off steam" is a good way to get hemmed up.

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If you can't communicate honestly with your psychiatrist, what is the point of seeing one? That's the whole reason for the privilege in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Irving

Aren't there some states that requires hairdressers to turn people in if they think they are talking about domestic violence issues?

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I think domestic abuse recognition training has become required in some states for hair dressers, no requirement for reporting.

Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Martinjmpr

Not quite. In some jurisdictions, a doctor is ALLOWED to break privilege if the doctor reasonably believes the patient is likely to harm someone. But the only circumstance where a doctor is REQUIRED to break the privilege and notify someone is if the patient expresses an intent to harm a SPECIFIC PERSON and in that case the duty is only to THAT SPECIFIC PERSON. Tarasoff v. Regents of California. 551 P.2d 334 (1976.)

Note the word "allowed" in the above example though. Except for a very narrow exception in Tarasoff, there is no duty or legal requirement to notify. Nor, to my knowledge, is there any criminal or civil penalty that can be levied against a doctor who knows a patient is about to commit a crime and CHOOSES not to notify the authorities if the victim is not specifically identified.

Put more simply, if I tell my shrink "I'm going to murder Joe Schmoe who lives at 123 Fake Street in Springfield", Tarasoff requires that, at minimum, the shrink warn Joe Schmoe that I made threats against him.

But if I tell my shrink "I'm going to get a gun and kill as many random people as I can" there is, to my knowledge, no specific legal requirement that the shrink notify anyone.

Now, that may be wrong because I've been out of school for a long time, and it may be that there have since been some laws passed that require doctors, under some circumstances, to notify the authorities, I don't know. Doctors, like lawyers, have their own ethics boards that write Rules of Professional Conduct that govern what they may or may not disclose to the authorities and under what circumstances.

As I said, I think there are a lot of places where doctors are ALLOWED to break privilege, but there are very few (that I am aware of) where they are REQUIRED to do so.

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Holmes shrink did say she contacted local LE, or was going to but.............something more important distracted her. There was a lot of discussion on line and the media (the DP) questioning why she attempted to but never followed up based on her "concerns"

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Originally Posted by Martinjmpr

If you can't communicate honestly with your psychiatrist, what is the point of seeing one? That's the whole reason for the privilege in the first place.

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People often say things that they do not mean, thinking they are in a situation where that cannot come back to bite them. Communicating honestly is one thing, but saying something heated, which is not truly intended as anything other than blowing off steam, is another.

A person might use hyperbole in a conversation with a professional, e.g., "I just want to kill him", not intending to actually kill a person. Well, if the professional doesn't understand that, adios guns.

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Originally Posted by Martinjmpr

If you can't communicate honestly with your psychiatrist, what is the point of seeing one? That's the whole reason for the privilege in the first place.

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To be fair, the vast majority of psychiatrists are not worth seeing anyway. For that matter i'd be hesitant to even socialize with psychiatric professionals.

The days of our doctors' (especially psychiatrists) primary function being that of state informants is soon upon us (assuming its not here already).

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Originally Posted by newracer

I think domestic abuse recognition training has become required in some states for hair dressers, no requirement for reporting.

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Flight attendants are supposedly trained to look for human traffickers..... Or at least some of them think they are...

There is all kinds of violence out there. The left focuses on the guns. There are all kinds of gun violence out there. Most driven by suicides and gang violence. The left focuses on the unicorns (who can ignore a unicorn) of white kids shot up at school. A distant second is general active shooters. Almost all of these active shooters have a screw loose, and someone at school, at a doctors office or a LEO interaction have tried to nail down that screw- and people end up dead.

I could fit in suitcase all the rifles and ammo that have been used in these mass shootings that the left uses as evidence for grabbing 15 million guns. Considering that the LV shooter (who is so odd he has a Oliver Stone script written all over him) is about the only one that wasn't known to people, there has to be way to address that.

We have to get off the paradigm of bad leftist ideas ramming into the right do nothing- because eventually their offense wins over our defense. We never get anything. My point was how do we shift the focus from the tool to the operator- with out the BS that this law entailed?

We also have to understand that there is a difference between Libertarianism and just being an anti-social ass-hole. Colorado has way to many of the later that claim to be the former. Not playing well with others is head-trash, not a viable governing policy. Get rid of crappy laws and only put in place efficient and effective laws. If you don't do that, you get crappy pols writing worse laws.

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Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand

Flight attendants are supposedly trained to look for human traffickers..... Or at least some of them think they are...

There is all kinds of violence out there. The left focuses on the guns. There are all kinds of gun violence out there. Most driven by suicides and gang violence. The left focuses on the unicorns (who can ignore a unicorn) of white kids shot up at school. A distant second is general active shooters. Almost all of these active shooters have a screw loose, and someone at school, at a doctors office or a LEO interaction have tried to nail down that screw- and people end up dead.

I could fit in suitcase all the rifles and ammo that have been used in these mass shootings that the left uses as evidence for grabbing 15 million guns. Considering that the LV shooter (who is so odd he has a Oliver Stone script written all over him) is about the only one that wasn't known to people, there has to be way to address that.

We have to get off the paradigm of bad leftist ideas ramming into the right do nothing- because eventually their offense wins over our defense. We never get anything. My point was how do we shift the focus from the tool to the operator- with out the BS that this law entailed?

We also have to understand that there is a difference between Libertarianism and just being an anti-social ass-hole. Colorado has way to many of the later that claim to be the former. Not playing well with others is head-trash, not a viable governing policy. Get rid of crappy laws and only put in place efficient and effective laws. If you don't do that, you get crappy pols writing worse laws.

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This...Defensive does nothing but push back the date you lose, if we want to win the fight we must wield power when we have it, and if those in office (local/state/Fed) will not do so for what ever reason they are to be hounded until they comply or primaries out.

I know this already failed, but I'm sure it'll be back. Here is a perfect example of the problem that I, and I'm sure many others, had with this law.

This guy went to lunch with his family, got up from the table in a way that everyone thought he was going to the bathroom, but he went outside and drove his car through the wall right into the table where his family was sitting and killed his two daughters. He was battling mental health issues and had communicated as much to his family. He even had someone take all his guns from his house. Yet tragedy still happened. Sure, he didn't shoot a bunch of strangers, but does it matter? He still killed people in a public venue with zero disregard for others. All this to point out that if someone is that dangerous, then just removing some guns is not even a shadow of a solution. If the person is the problem, then that person shouldn't be in society. It's still a slippery slope, but at least it's focusing on the real issue, the person.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...embers-n875996

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It was supposed to be a chance for them to get together as a family — a relaxing lunch at a local seafood restaurant after Sunday's church service.

Appetizers had just been ordered at the Surf and Turf Lodge in Bessemer City, North Carolina, when patriarch Roger Self got up from the table without saying a word, according to the family's pastor. Moments later, they noticed him in his white Jeep outside, circling the parking lot several times.

Then, without warning, the SUV burst through the wood-framed restaurant and smashed into the family's table. Self's daughter and daughter-in-law were killed, while his wife, son and 13-year-old granddaughter were injured, authorities said.

Police say it was no accident. Self, 62, faces two first-degree murder charges for the crash.

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In the past couple of months, Self had stopped working, and divulged to friends and family that he felt like he was sliding deeper and deeper into depression, Rammell said. Self had asked Rammell to take away his guns from him, the pastor said, which he did.

In the last few days, "it went from bad to really bad," Rammell added. He said he had spoken with Self on Saturday afternoon and texted with him and feared he might commit suicide, but was unsure how to help him.

"At the end of the day, we were all unable to help our friend," he said, "and the result was his mental health carried him to an act that the Roger Self we all knew would have, without a doubt, called insane and evil."

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