Stem Academy in Highlands Ranch shooting

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

Yeah...because being sure of your target really isn't that important.

(my bold)

How do you, with any semblance of reasonableness, get to because I questioned the security guard's actions? That's absurd.

Not only that but the guard may have violated the law by having a gun on school property. He violated the terms of the contract as far as we know. And now we have a "good guy with a gun", that wasn't supposed to have a gun, shooting at a cop and wounding a student. So much for advancing the argument of guns in schools by anyone other than a cop. I'm not discounting what the guy did in terms of handcuffing the suspect. But FFS...another way to look at it is the guard was responsible for wounding 11% of the casualties during the incident. I'm not sure how you spin that into a good thing but, hey...knock yourself out.

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OK- His mistake caused 11 percent of the casualties. Let's say he did NOTHING, and the perp figured out the safety catch on their weapon. Now how many casualties are there? That's the same Catch-22 of because the person stops a mass shooting from occuring that there wasn't a mass shooting.

Would you have the same derogatory opinion if the shot(s?) at the Deputy and the wounded student were fired by another responding LEO, or would that be just be an unintentional "fog of war" result of a high stress situation?

Would any of this help the guard when if/when the DA decides to throw the book at him? Probably not, but the prosecution sure wouldn't want me on the jury.

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Originally Posted by glocktoberfest

sometimes when i'm zoning out at the movie theater before the show begins, i imagine how i'd react if somebody opened fire and the chaos that would ensue. getting a single good shot off would be near impossible as i imagine it. Hitting the shooter wouldn't be impossible, but not shooting bystanders would be.

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And that's the trade-off. Do you shoot into the crowd and become part of the problem, or do you find a position that limits the risk of wounding innocents, or do you just GTFO.

It's good to figure out where the exits and entrances are before the show begins. You already know where a threat may come from and where you might need to go before there's a problem.

i'd run away with my family. if i'm trapped, i duck. when he's in front of me and pointed at my family, i'd defend. apparently this is cowardly based on my previous ccw instructor. i'm supposed to intervene. i wonder what most would do. based on previous classes, my peers are eager to use their firearms.

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Originally Posted by Gman

And that's the trade-off. Do you shoot into the crowd and become part of the problem, or do you find a position that limits the risk of wounding innocents, or do you just GTFO.

It's good to figure out where the exits and entrances are before the show begins. You already know where a threat may come from and where you might need to go before there's a problem.

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Originally Posted by glocktoberfest

i'd run away with my family. if i'm trapped, i duck. when he's in front of me and pointed at my family, i'd defend. apparently this is cowardly based on my previous ccw instructor. i'm supposed to intervene. i wonder what most would do. based on previous classes, my peers are eager to use their firearms.

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I lean toward your values. I am not a LEO. I don't have hero syndrome. Protect yourself and your family.

I grew up in the security business (dad's career) and have worked both armed and unarmed. For unarmed private security, observe and report.

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Originally Posted by glocktoberfest

i'd run away with my family. if i'm trapped, i duck. when he's in front of me and pointed at my family, i'd defend. apparently this is cowardly based on my previous ccw instructor. i'm supposed to intervene. i wonder what most would do. based on previous classes, my peers are eager to use their firearms.

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If I'm going to a movie theater, it's because I'm taking my kids to see something, if someone starts shooting up the place, we GTFO if possible, if not, we bed down until I absolutely have to defend my kid's. I would love to play hero, but unfortunately that would likely increase the risk to my kid's. Call me selfish, but if other's can't be bothered to value their lives enough to implement a plan to defend themselves, why should I put my children's lives in jeopardy for them?


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Hang the sheepdog

I don't even know what to say to someone who thinks that it's OK for another to shoot at a cop because he saw the muzzle of a gun, miss, and wound an innocent person. On top of that the person who shot wasn't even supposed to have a gun. I feel like I'm in an alternate universe.

I suppose the security company should tell the parents of the wounded girl to just suck it up and take one for the team.

I believe in being a good witness. UNLESS BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT i have a good shot at said threat. I'm not taking the fall or lawsuit for dropping a fleeing person.

BESIDES, as mentioned before myself and family come first. Anyone else is on their own.

The difference between a round or 2 fired at a target @ 7 yards has a different POI than one @ 15-20 etc. Between the time i'm on the threat and ready to take the shot who knows who while fleeing, has decided to pop up from their cover and run in front of me.


Of course this was hashed out in the shoot we had (started by CStone) a few years back. While some successfully engaged a target at X yards. There was no one shooting back.

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

I don't even know what to say to someone who thinks that it's OK for another to shoot at a cop because he saw the muzzle of a gun, miss, and wound an innocent person. On top of that the person who shot wasn't even supposed to have a gun. I feel like I'm in an alternate universe.

I suppose the security company should tell the parents of the wounded girl to just suck it up and take one for the team.

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I didn't say it was OK, but it unfortunately happened in the course of engaging and stopping an active shooter event where students had already been shot in another location within the building.

You didn't supply your response if it would have been LEO on LEO/3rd party friendly fire versus Security Guard on LEO/3rd party friendly fire. Both events would be bad, but one is not more bad than the other in light of what was occurring. This wasn't just another normal morning at the STEM school when some wacked-out security guard pulled out an unauthorized weapon and just started shooting at make believe bad guys.

You guys are going to lose your shit when an active school shooter is stopped by another student with an "unauthorized" weapon. Unfortunately, it will probably happen sooner than later.

I'm not LE and did not get my CC permit to be one. I go it to defend myself and my family. I will be the best witness I can but will not actively seek to be a "Hero". I will get me and my family to cover to defend or get away from the trouble if at all possible. My family's safety and well being is the most important thing that matters to me. However, if confronted I will not hesitate to defend.

I feel for the guard, at least he tried to do something to stop the carnage.