Take back the schools-Take back our nation.

@ Mr. Lebowski,

Church or other private schools are an option, but the frustrating part is paying for the public schools via property taxes AND THEN paying private school tuition on top of that. I have a feeling we're headed in the same direction with regard to health care... Pay for the public system and then pay again if you want truly QUALITY care.

I went to Catholic school through 6th grade--because that's all that was offered in Loveland at the time. I could have slept through at least 7th and 8th grade when I transferred to the public school system.

I don't have kids of my own, but I'm very involved with my brother's children. I'm frequently disgusted by the nonsense the girls hear from their teachers. In fact the only concern I have for my brother's oldest child is that she's going to get herself in trouble for her [conservative] political viewpoint. Her IQ is in the stratosphere and she expresses her opinions in a logical fashion with clarity that most adults could only dream of. Teachers have broached the subject with my brother at parent teacher conferences and have quickly learned that the apple, in fact, doesn't fall far from the tree!

If I had children of my own, I'd do whatever it took to send my children to a private school where a more traditional (old-fashioned) course of study is emphasized.

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Originally Posted by NFATrustGuy

@ Mr. Lebowski,
Church or other private schools are an option, but the frustrating part is paying for the public schools via property taxes AND THEN paying private school tuition on top of that. I have a feeling we're headed in the same direction with regard to health care... Pay for the public system and then pay again if you want truly QUALITY care.

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Yeah, I can't disagree. It is (personally) frustrating that I have NO kids and pay for the public schools anyway, and occasionally have teachers come door to door (election / referendum time) asking if I support the next tax hike to pay for their retirement. No, not only do I not support that, I think you teachers aren't doing a good job. Like yourself, I went to parochial (Lutheran, in my case) and never once had to deal with alternate meanings of the 2nd amendment or other bizarre progressive ideals. I'd still "double down" though, if I did have kids. I'd probably try to get involved even if it were a Catholic school I trusted. My parents being invested made me invested.


I also agree there are plenty of examples where you pay double - and we are already there with Health Care.
We're there with food (stamps). We're there with books (library vs amazon). You could argue many are there with public parks vs. HOA common areas.
Society has too much dead weight, gimmedats, and hangers-on, sadly. The school thing bothers me less than [some of] the others, though.

The first thing is to stop electing union endorsed school board candidates. Go the direction of Douglas County. There is no reason for taxpayers to pay for union representatives or to collect dues on their behalf.

Schools are failing abysmally at their primary role, which is to impart the basic skills (i.e. literacy) and knowledge needed for kids to go out and function as productive members of society. Instead, the "everyone's a winner" philosophy and mindless conformity to even the most idiotic policies, as well as slavish adherence to political correctness and suppression of any original or independent thought, is facilitating our national descent into IDIOCRACY.

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Originally Posted by BigBear

Yes, I should've been clearer. The test themselves is not the issue. It is the funding in relation to the test and how teachers must teach to the test (instead of rational thinking skills and general knowledge) in order to keep their job/credentials/performance pay/all the other crap.

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The NEA-approved curriculum doesn't have anything to do with teaching rational thinking skills or what we would call "general knowledge" either. At least the standardized tests make them spend time on stuff like math, English and actual history instead of why Heather Has Two Mommies or other sensitivity/diversity BS. I'd rather have teacher teach to a test that at least verifies basic skills than have kids indoctrinated by more of the PC diversity crap or junk science like carbon dioxide being an evil toxic chemical that should be regulated by the EPA.

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Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter

The NEA-approved curriculum doesn't have anything to do with teaching rational thinking skills or what we would call "general knowledge" either. At least the standardized tests make them spend time on stuff like math, English and actual history instead of why Heather Has Two Mommies or other sensitivity/diversity BS. I'd rather have teacher teach to a test that at least verifies basic skills than have kids indoctrinated by more of the PC diversity crap or junk science like carbon dioxide being an evil toxic chemical that should be regulated by the EPA.

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Amen I dont care about heather having two moms(unless they are bi and looking for a young stud)

How do we get out of this mess? short of the a economical collapse

I have a daughter in middle school right now and she at least is learning the basics. The problem is with the parents, not many actually look or care about what is going on. School is looked upon as a daycare so both parents can work. If the economy was such that one parent could make a living while the other stayed home and took care of the kids things would be different. I have been lucky in that a medical condition has kept me home so I have spend more time with my child this year then ever before. She has changed a considerable amount with me being home.

Parents and parents to be should go spend a day in a classroom and see what it's like. It's an absolute madhouse with the way kids act these days and there is only one person to blame and that is the parents. Schools shouldn't have to result to spanking a child or smacking them with a ruler they should have to simple call the parents.

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Originally Posted by Lurch

Parents and parents to be should go spend a day in a classroom and see what it's like. It's an absolute madhouse with the way kids act these days and there is only one person to blame and that is the parents.

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I don't have kids, but the thought of this scares me into some mild anxiety!
Just observe how kids act in public IN FRONT OF their parents and I cannot imagine how it is when it is one adult and a classroom of peers. Yikes.

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Originally Posted by Cujo0920

Schools are failing abysmally at their primary role, which is to impart the basic skills (i.e. literacy) and knowledge needed for kids to go out and function as productive members of society. Instead, the "everyone's a winner" philosophy and mindless conformity to even the most idiotic policies, as well as slavish adherence to political correctness and suppression of any original or independent thought, is facilitating our national descent into IDIOCRACY.

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I agree mostly, but don't forget that it "takes two to tango". A lot of the behavior from the kids themselves and resistance to learning when taught is not helping the situation either.

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Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter

The NEA-approved curriculum doesn't have anything to do with teaching rational thinking skills or what we would call "general knowledge" either. At least the standardized tests make them spend time on stuff like math, English and actual history instead of why Heather Has Two Mommies or other sensitivity/diversity BS. I'd rather have teacher teach to a test that at least verifies basic skills than have kids indoctrinated by more of the PC diversity crap or junk science like carbon dioxide being an evil toxic chemical that should be regulated by the EPA.

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Luckily the two moms and EPA issues are not part of the ciriculum (to my knowledge). If that BS is going on, then parents need to get involved in their school and change some things. A few irate parents showing up to the admins office DOES accomplish A LOT.

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Originally Posted by SG1

How do we get out of this mess?

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Start demanding resignations and make sure replacements are qualified, both papered and morally/etc.

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Originally Posted by Lurch

Parents and parents to be should go spend a day in a classroom and see what it's like. It's an absolute madhouse with the way kids act these days and there is only one person to blame and that is the parents.

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YES!!! I BEG parents to come to my class and sit it, help out, be a silent observer, whatever. I just want them to see what is being taught. Teachers are not the only ones to blame.

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Originally Posted by Jeffrey Lebowski

Just observe how kids act in public IN FRONT OF their parents and I cannot imagine how it is when it is one adult and a classroom of peers. Yikes.

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Yup, spare the rod, spoil the child.

The Problems:

1) Lack of Motivation - Students have little motivated to excel. To them, school is a chore and a "time occupier" during the day. The have no desire to reach, achieve, and set higher goals for themselves....it's too much work. It is easier to "just do the minimum" to achieve a tolerable level of pain.

2) Lack of Accountability - this applies to the school administration, teachers, students, and parents . No one wants to be accountable for the poor performance of students. We live in a politically correct world where we "everyone gets a trophy"...win or lose. No one wants to admit that there are "winners" and "losers" . They just promote the kids along. Of course there are always exceptions ( some of the admin, teachers, students and parents DO care and try), but these exceptions don't last long and are soon taught to play by the "rules" , if they want to keep their jobs.

3) Lack of Consequences - So what, if the kids graduate and can't read, write, and suck at math? What are the consequences ? How many times has a teacher gotten fired because they were sub-standard teachers? (I can't think of any. In fact I spoke to an attorney that represented several school districts. He told me in all his 30+ years, he has yet to see a teacher be fired due to incompentency) When do admins get fired for poor policy? (My memory fails me again). Do the parents have any issues ? (I 'm sure it has happened, but I have not seen too many parents complain that their kids graduated high school and can't read/write/cipher). The kids? They got through it and now don't have to deal with school any more. (Ever hear of a story of a kid complaining that "the school system let me down...I'm not educated enough.