Is anybody else sick of this?

"except that guns are not about capitalism, or hunting, or even self-defense. The overriding reason to have our fellow citizens armed is to insure the honesty of our government.'' Wrong! <==== guntroll statement about the preceeding statement.

Well, it's nice to see that you disagree with the majority of the signers of the constitution. Perhaps they didn't have your insight?

And I can, and do, call shops on price gouging - it is perfectly within my rights to do so. Then I buy elsehwhere. When the shops closes and the owner whines about gun owners not supporting them, I have ZERO sympathy. Dave's guns closed because Dave Anvers overextended himself in a couple of different ways, not because he couldn't make a profit. Rob Burke got tired of it. Some gun shops were ill-conceived ideas in the first place, and so went under.

Do you remember when the twin towers fell? Remember the Starbuck's manager that CHARGED for bottles of water to give to rescuers and victims? Oh - well - clearly you'd be next to them opening up your own bottled water stand, if you could have anticipated the OPPORTUNITY it presented.

"Everything is permissible"- but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"- but not everything is constructive. 1st Corinthians 10:23

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ldmaster

"except that guns are not about capitalism, or hunting, or even self-defense. The overriding reason to have our fellow citizens armed is to insure the honesty of our government.'' Wrong! <==== guntroll statement about the preceeding statement.

Well, it's nice to see that you disagree with the majority of the signers of the constitution. Perhaps they didn't have your insight?

And I can, and do, call shops on price gouging - it is perfectly within my rights to do so. Then I buy elsehwhere. When the shops closes and the owner whines about gun owners not supporting them, I have ZERO sympathy. Dave's guns closed because Dave Anvers overextended himself in a couple of different ways, not because he couldn't make a profit. Rob Burke got tired of it. Some gun shops were ill-conceived ideas in the first place, and so went under.

Do you remember when the twin towers fell? Remember the Starbuck's manager that CHARGED for bottles of water to give to rescuers and victims? Oh - well - clearly you'd be next to them opening up your own bottled water stand, if you could have anticipated the OPPORTUNITY it presented.

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I agree with you in ways as I said.But hunting was around before our founding fathers drafted up th constitution. Firearms are tools. Nothing more. A tool has many uses. Self defense,food provider,etc. That is what my statement meant. Sorry for the confusion. And as for the bottle selling statement, F.Off! I joined the Army shortly after 911 at the age of 25 yrs old. Knowing what all comes with enlistment in time of war. You statement is out of line. You can't attack someone personally for there coments. Maybe attack what comment was made but not the person. Grow up! Your pretty big sitting behind your computer! We are a nation of many, and in that many there are many ideas and or beleifs. I have mine and you have yours. BE civial.
On the gun shops...call them out. I don't but go ahead. I choose to take the high road and keep my mouth shut. You choose to confront. Both have the same effect...no sale. So we are close in agreement there.
Remember its not the firearms seller to completely blame. Its the buyer! If no one would buy these over priced piles then the price would go down. No one is forcing anyone to purchase anything.

my motivation for buying a mill is partially because I enjoy working with my hands, and building something from raw materials... and there are many non-firearm related uses for it as well..

but the other motivation is that when some items inflated, I'd rather make it than pay the premium... so I refuse to help drive up the cost... I do this by not paying more than I'm willing to..

an example is 10 round magazines for a Saiga-12 shotgun...
they're composite mags, not much different than PMags, just the application isn't as wide-spread... so the going rate for Saiga-12 mags is $50 and up... people trying to sell them on gunbroker for $70 each! Many don't want to pay over $20 for a PMag (and I can't blame them).. but even Taiwanese 5-rounders for the Saiga-12 are $20 & up...
I'd rather try to build some from sheet metal, or mold some using fiberglass techniques (maybe Kevlar fabric), then pay those prices...

I also agree with Guntroll's statement that firearms are tools...
the question is, tools for what purpose?
they can be tools for hunting, self-defense, protection, enslavement, opression, intimidation, liberation...

by ensuring that citizens are guaranteed the right to keep tools, the founding fathers intended achieve a balance of power (rather than the gov't having all the power, history has revealed it time and time again)

So, you're going to swear at me, TELL me to be civil, then tell me I'm a jerk?

Son, I'm not your wife you can intimidate into submission and threaten. I get the feeling this is your normal mode of operation though, coupled with your lack of civility in the first place.

Hunting, etc... WAS around long before the revolutionary war. What wasn't around was a codified list of basic freedoms and rights. The 2nd amendment is not about hunting, it's stated outright in the federalist papers and in several other documents of the time. The preservation of the 2nd amendment is vital for each and every citizen, pricing a 100 dollat gun near a 1000 dollars simply for the sake of a buck, keeps a citizen of modest means from being able to de-facto exercise that right.

Quit acting like a punk, btw. Not that I expect you will, you probably don't even know that you're being one.

All I can say is WOW! My mistake for even posting in your thread. Excuse me for even trying to have an opinion. Sorry about all confusion and thanks for making it clear to me and everyone else who is out of line. I foresee this thread getting way out of line and being closed. You my FATHER, are the bigger man for sure and now all can see. You sound a bit like a closet comy who won't have anything to do with freedom of expresion/opinion. KEEP the 2nd alive for sure but don't forget the other admendments.

My PM sent to Idlmaster....
You should not go on the offensive against me. You aren't far off of the point. And I do agree with most statements that you made as I said in my post in your thread. You don't know where I stand on , on anything and should not make accusations without knowing me. What you made are assumptions and they aren't grounded. I understand your frustration and agree(again as I said) with some of your opinions. I didn't feel the need to point out the ones I agree with and perhaps should have so I wouldn't bear the brunt of your lack of tolerating of other opinions. Your views aren't the only out there and when you post opinions in a public forum you should expect and possible encourage opposite points of view. This is America by the way

His response.....
First was the "Wrong!" statement followed by an incoherent sentence about doing things legally. Then this PM,(mine above) which is condescending to the extreme.

NO, I don't know you - and we may not be far apart in our views. But you're not going to make a public statement about me personally, and avoid a rebuke.

End of PM's

What public statement do you speak that is directed personnel against you and how did I avoid a rebuke? I believe all personal statement directed at anyone personnel came from you first and a lot harsher. Even bringing in family members. I fell this is way out of line and childish on both of our parts. I'll publicly apologize for my comments......and you?

It's hard enough deciphering your posts, but posting private PM's? In a private message you apologize, then post this here?

Guntroll, this post was never about how smart you want us to think you are, it was about a trend in the gun culture and a re-statement of my personal beliefs about gun ownership.

You attack where there was no offense, you use profane language as if you had a right to, you have only a tenuous grasp of the meaning of the words and sentences you use - then you demonstrate ill-manners in each post since.

Again, can you expect to post something publicly and NOT receive a rebuke?

Geez, I'm away from the site for a while and come back to THIS?
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