when does it become "gouging" vs supply & demand?

My turn to chime in....I'll bitch about primers. I know for a fact that primers have not not gone up what some would think from the factory. They are selling to retailers for a bit more but that is just good business. If the supply is high sell for more. CCI sells to someone I know personally. He owned a shop some time ago and co-owns an ammo reloading company or at least is a player in that business. I can't get more specific than that. I bought my primers for $25/1000 a few weeks ago. Now the same primers cost me $30/1000. Not that bad of a price hike. Now when I see primers going for $70-80 at shows and on the net I laugh. Either the seller bought them for retail ($30ish) and is gouging or he gets them from a distributor for not a good price to attempt to resell. Either way its gouging. The plant/company sells them for a set price and everyone else is going ape-shit and taking advantage of the current situation through jacking up the price.

If its priced high just pass and laugh! Let that person starve because unless he's selling food he's not eating primers to survive. He'll adjust his price sooner or later to pay the bills and eat.

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Originally Posted by GunTroll

If its priced high just pass and laugh! Let that person starve because unless he's selling food he's not eating primers to survive. He'll adjust his price sooner or later to pay the bills and eat.

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+1 on the way people should respond.

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if ONE group, company or person were to go and buy every single round of ammo in the state of Colorado, then demand 2-3x the price they paid for it "just because they can"- does that make it right?

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No, but it's legal and being done all the time in other markets (communication infrastructure, cell phone towers, water rights etc).

There is no valid argument of PRICE GOUGING on the original post. As long as people buying, you cannot argue price gouging. Walk away and wait it out until you can afford the price. The market will correct itself as demand decreases. It's still a free market or what's left of it.

I am going through the 'shortage' as much as everyone else here, but you will never see me complaining to a vendor or seller about price gouging. It's his/her right to sell whatever price. It's my right to buy or not to buy. This country has the most billionaires/capita in the world thanks to a simple concept of price is not always the value, and value is not always the Price, hence stock bubble, housing bubble, and in turn the endless new opportunities for everyone on each market up and down etc etc etc.

I think many of us are taking 'FREE MARKET' for granted. Take this from a guy who grew up in a socialist country, where price fixing, quota buying are applied on everything.

whew... [Tooth]

Well, I wasn't going to even reply, until I saw the post where the fella says to "grow up". Oxymoron, that.
It's called being a decent human being and not raping people, like in the example of the AK. The same fellow has been trying to sell wolf ammo for $400.00 plus for months. Even when everyone else was selling at $300.00 and Cabela's at 264.00.
Greed has/is destroying this country. And I'm certainly no liberal.
Sorry, but I believe in an honest days' wage for an honest days' work. And that includes an honest price, on anything.
Truth is, people who "gouge" like that usually don't sell their stuff. And they make a bad name for themselves in the process.
Bad thing is, they really screw some people in the meantime.
And as far as finding a "better deal", well some of us don't have the time nor the resources. So that means we should get raped?
I guess what pisses me off the most is the internet toughies. They act so self-righteous and in control and tough on the web, but in real life they bitch up. Sorry to go off track, but it's the truth.
As for me personally, I don't nor ever will need to make 10,000% on anything. It's just not honest.
Tristan

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Originally Posted by ryanek9freak

I'm not so necessarily concerned about the price, as I am availability. It does suck that every time I fire my AR, I piss away .25-.50 cents, but at the moment, I need to practice badly, so i wouldn't mind paying that, If I could at least find a decent quantity.

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How much ya need? I've got a modest amount of Brown Bear 62gr FMJ I can supply to local shooters for $45/100 plus tax.

wow, guess I touched a nerve with M2MG- we can guess what he's been up to..

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Originally Posted by M2MG

A few questions for you. When does poor planning on your part, cause an emergency on my part? Quite simply, NEVER.

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we agree on this point...

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Originally Posted by M2MG

You don't have ammo, to bad. You don't like someone's price, don't buy it and go find it cheaper some place else. You can't find it some place else cheaper, you should have planned better when you could have.

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still agreeing... I've got ammo- I don't like prices I see, so I don't buy it- sometimes I do find it cheaper somewhere else- otherwise, I just live with what I've got... planning for what? hindsight is 20/20, and it was a given that certain things were going to be scarce in the Obamanation- but you do what you can with the resources you have.. but I never mentioned messing up any plans...

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Originally Posted by M2MG

What you have is the mindset of a LIBERAL. Someone else takes a risk and buys a quantity of a product to sell for a profit, and you're mad that you have to pay the profit.

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you've missed the point of my post if you think I have the mindset of a LIBERAL... (and you've resorted to namecalling [LOL])

I don't have a problem with profit- especially for those that are running a business, or supply & demand economics... until the point of market manipulation... can you honestly say that you'd be just fine if Bill Gates decided to buy every last >fill in the blank< that's on the shelves in the US... and then said "come to me, I've got all of them, but the price has just tripled"? you'd be fine with that? REALLY?
and I'm saying that we're seeing the same effect, but instead of one person/company being behind it, it's a mindset & actions of a number of people influencing the market..

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Originally Posted by M2MG

When was the last time your boss came to you and asked you to pay back some of your wages because a product he bought didn't make a profit and he had to sell it at a loss? If this happened to you, you would probably quit your job, or file a law suit, or walk a picket line in front of the business. But you think nothing of demanding others do this for you.

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I understand the idea of entrepreneurial risk- again, not what I'm talking about- and you're applying that ideal to a "job"- (when you have no idea what I do for a living)... but ultimately, it's a bad analogy... if that same boss made A LOT more money than he expected, would he double or triple my salary? I doubt it- because I didn't bear the risk... someone takes a job that pays "wages" because of the stability (less risk), someone in business for themselves can stand to lose money, or could make many times their original investment...

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Originally Posted by M2MG

Go try to buy a house from someone and tell them you want the same price they paid for the house twenty years ago, "because it's only fair you get the same price as they did".

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another lousy analogy... real estate is NOT a commodity market, and inflation over 20 years alone would raise the price.. I'm talking about people that buy one week and sell the next for double the price, and they've done NOTHING to add to the value..

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Originally Posted by M2MG

The next time you buy a pack of cigarettes, or a case of beer, or go out to dinner or whatever you spend your money on. someone else used their same disposable money and bought the ammo you're crying about not having.

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It's my disposable income, and I WON'T spend it with somebody that's not providing any value to the economy other than just profiting from holding something for a week... you can justify it by saying you're "providing a service"... and I'll say that's Bovine Scatology, you're profiteering...I'll spend it with the good folks that refuse to sell to the gougers, and would rather put product in the hands of loyal customers... I'll spend it with the guy that's feeding his family with his little 1000 Sq. ft shop that he makes a modest living on, and his prices are higher than the big boxes, but he isn't gouging either... I WON'T spend it with the guy who's buying the last 5 boxes of primers at $30/1000, and then re-selling them the next day, without providing any value- he's just making $$ for himself while driving the price up...
And that wasn't the case with the post I was reading at the time- he mentioned that he buys estates- so he researched market value, and I tip my hat to him for coming down to a reasonable price, he did not have to... I just saw someone ELSE saying "it's just supply & demand"

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Originally Posted by M2MG

You want something, save for it, sacrifice for it, work for it, but don't complain that others have planned for it while you didn't, it's YOUR responsibility, not theirs/ours. GROW UP.

M2MG

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you seem much more upset about this than I am... to me it's not much more than an annoyance... it's not an emergency on anyone's part- some people seem to THINK it's an emergency... I'm covered, I am not "worried" at all- and I'm not looking for anyone to GIVE me anything... I take responsibility for those things I'm responsible for, but I don't have to just accept the behavior of others that I don't agree with... I even recognized that they have the 'right' to do it... I'm not taking any issues with those that "planned" for it... just those that "profit" by it without adding value...

Maybe I'm just tired of hearing that it's "just supply & demand".. when that's not ALL that's at work here... if you take away the regulations (and rumors of more), the market manipulation (fear mongering leading to panic buying, the 'cornering' of the market by a segment of buyers, etc...) then things would be much more palatable.... I believe prices would be lower...

so I stick by my statement that if you're participating in that kind of activity (buying things you know are scarce not because you need them or want them, but just to resell at a profit without providing any value), you're PART OF THE PROBLEM... if you don't like being that, then STOP DOING IT... if you can live with that, fine.... but I won't stop saying it...

I don't have any solution- that doesn't create more of a problem... I'll just be patient and work through it...

68charger, it's just supply and demand! [Tooth]



j/k [Beer]

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Originally Posted by 68Charger

I WON'T spend it with the guy who's buying the last 5 boxes of primers at $30/1000, and then re-selling them the next day, without providing any value

Maybe I'm just tired of hearing that it's "just supply & demand".. when that's not ALL that's at work here... if you take away the regulations (and rumors of more), the market manipulation (fear mongering leading to panic buying, the 'cornering' of the market by a segment of buyers, etc...) then things would be much more palatable.... I believe prices would be lower...

so I stick by my statement that if you're participating in that kind of activity (buying things you know are scarce not because you need them or want them, but just to resell at a profit without providing any value), you're PART OF THE PROBLEM... if you don't like being that, then STOP DOING IT... if you can live with that, fine.... but I won't stop saying it...

I don't have any solution- that doesn't create more of a problem... I'll just be patient and work through it...

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I'm with you on the above statements!! The market is definitely fear driven at the moment. Just think what the fools who bought the $80/1000 will think when (and I'll use primers again as an example) the prices drop due to over production of primers due to a lack of demand. At some point people will have enough primers or run out of money or get kicked out by their old lady and the demand will stabilize. There will be an abundance of primers and the price will drop to near or equal to the pre-OBAMA threat on the firearm industry.

Call me optimistic. I know it could go the other way and we are all screwed in that case. Back to bows and arrows or rock chucking to fight the tyranny!

When local shops go to cheaper places and buy out all the stock to sell at their higher prices, time and time again...

When the dick heads at Gunsmoke have a used, factory synthetic butt stock and forearm for a Remington 870 for sale for $98, when you can just order it new from Remington for $60. I often wonder how that place stays in business.

I'm actually surprised the prices aren't higher! To me, if demand is so high (or supply so low), that you can't keep it in stock, raise the prices. It's amazing to me that I can still buy 30-06 at prices I was paying 5 years ago, it just takes me a LOT longer to find someone to hand my money to.

I see prices of "assault weapons" taking a dive when people realize Obama's not stupid enough to ban them in his first term. I don't think ammo will drop much, though. I see what you all are saying about people charging outrageous prices, but there's still plenty of deals out there, if you plan on buying a bit before that trip to the range.