Wow, what a cluster
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Wow, what a cluster
Best bet is to consult a real estate lawyer licensed in OK and with experience.
Each state has their own structure and rules.
Is the appraiser licensed and required to have Errors and Omissions insurance?
Did the appraiser work for the mortgage company?
Does the contract to buy and sell list the square footage?
Lots of questions that requires someone expert in Oklahoma real estate.
I am very interested in the result of this.
Will try to knock out all replies at once.
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Originally Posted by fitz19d
There were not a lot of comps in the area, so valuation was something that we, personally, weren't up on; however, a discrepancy of this nature is a big deal not just to the VA but also for the appraiser because it means he didn't actually do his job -- hence his panicked phone call to me upon notification of the complaint being filed, and upon relooking at the file realizing he basically screwed the pooch in a bad, bad way. The post-sale appraiser who confirmed the mistake is also on the Appraiser Disciplinary board for OK and was adamant we file a complaint due to the complete lack of due diligence on the part of the original appraiser. If it were a residential situation, yeah, we would have known something was off. My "satisfaction" with the property in ignorance is immaterial, though. The way the VA approaches things is to protect the buyer as much as the VA; they backed an overvalued property due to the appraiser's mistake. It could be a cardboard box covered in dog shit for $300k, and my personal desire/happiness/etc. for the property is immaterial where the VA is concerned. The entire point of the appraiser is to determine the proper value of the home. When a VA loan situation finds a discrepancy in value vs listed price, they will either deny the loan entirely, or only back the appraised amount. He failed, miserably, as it way overvalued the property with the incorrect GLA for the house itself.
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Originally Posted by Gman
Yes, we have filed a complaint through the VA Regional Loan Center (in this case, Houston covers Oklahoma). Trying to get more clarity through them on what our personal abilities are in this process. Would prefer not to involve a lawyer, if possible.
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Originally Posted by oinco
I'm happy to work with the appraiser and possibly his insurance on making it right. I just am waiting on word from the VA as to if I am allowed to talk with him outside of their involvement/arbitration/mediation.
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Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand
1896sqft was the listed; 1257 was the measured post-sale. We knew it felt smaller, but it was an older house and having lived in an older house before they sometimes seem small, but aren't due to use of space vs the more modern "open" feel; in short, we had nothing official to use for negotiations, since our own appraiser royally screwed up. We brought up the issue of it seeming smaller than listed with our realtor's assistant, but had no proof given the bad appraisal and the fact that the appraiser went with listed GLA instead of actually measuring, like he is required to do.
No neighborhood. Rural property.
"But if you had already decided to buy it at that price before he did his appraisal, that would weaken your argument a bit." Um, no. we would have had some SERIOUS bargaining power if we had been given the correct information on GLA and a properly done valuation. Like, wayyyyy serious bargaining power. AND we would have not lost money on the sale, which we did, upon discovery of the correct GLA. The VA is serious about their loans and they are a bitch compared to conventional. The point of an appraiser is to transfer risk of a buyer overvaluing a property for any number of reasons, as well as ensuring that the VA doesn't back a property that is overvalued. This dude isn't just on the hook to me. He's got the boot of the VA coming straight for his ass and that's a bad thing for a VA appraiser.
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Originally Posted by BladesNBarrels
Numbered your questions for ease of reply:
1) Yes, to my knowledge. The VA is stricter on their requirements to become an appraiser for them.
2) Technically for the VA, to whom the mortgage company defers, as far as I understand it.
3) Yes, incorrectly as 1896, which was agreed with by the original appraiser, and then confirmed to be incorrect by 639sqft in the negative.
Talk to your agent. They should be on top of this. They should know your options and be prepared to walk away.
We sold the house when we moved. Our selling agent is who removed the scales from our eyes on how much of a mistake was made and got us hooked up with the new appraiser who is on the disciplinary board for OK. He is who confirmed this is a big deal and we need to pursue every avenue to get it corrected.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfuego
Again, my question would go back to this: Who does the appraiser (the one who made the mistake) work for? Does he work for you, the buyer? Or does he work for the guarantor of the loan, the VA? Or does he work for the real estate agent?
He works for SOMEBODY and that SOMEBODY has to have some kind of a contract specifying what the appraiser is supposed to do and what happens if he doesn't do what he's supposed to do.
Personally I've only bought one house in my life and I honestly can't remember ever entering into any kind of contractual arrangement with the appraiser - our real estate agent did all that, which makes me think that either the appraiser worked for the agent, or the appraiser worked for the loan company (we did a conventional, not VA.)
If the appraiser did work for us, the buyers, then I presume this was done through a POA arrangement where the RE agent had a POA from us to set up the appraisal. If that's the case, that the appraiser worked for you but that the appraisal itself was arranged by the RE agent through a POA, then it seems to me that both the appraiser and the POA RE agent could be liable for malpractice/lack of due diligence.
Sorry if you posted this already, I didn't see it, but when did the erroneous appraisal happen?
Because the other question would be whether either the contract or state law puts any kind of a statute of limitations on claims against an appraiser. If the erroneous appraisal was 5 years ago and there is a 3 year SoL on filing a claim from the date of the appraisal, you would likely have to go to court to try and argue why the SoL shouldn't apply in your situation. It's also possible that there's some kind of time limitation on the contract with the appraiser and if you are past that time limitation, it may be difficult to seek damages.
September 2019.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinjmpr
We are working on getting the other answers. Here's what I do know:
2 real estate agents (a trusted friend who was not involved and the other was our selling agent when we sold) and 1 other appraiser (who is on the disciplinary board), along with the VA all blew their stacks when we explained the situation and said we need to raise hell. Upon notification of the complaint, the offending appraiser called me in a straight panic, which to me confirms this is a big deal and he knows he's liable for something.
Really, I'm just curious if anyone had ever seen a similar situation, and, if the VA says we can work with the appraiser on restitution without their involvement, how we might go about that.
It may have been implied in your first post, but for anyone that hasn't read every word, I think pointing out, "AND we would have not lost money on the sale, which we did, upon discovery of the correct GLA." helps.
It's not that you had some small additional cost in your mortgage passing through a property, it's the large amount of money you lost that's key - in addition to the screw ups and pissing off the VA.
Yes, it's not like he appraised formica counter tops as if they were granite. He failed to do a basic function as an appraiser, and then continued to file a report with incorrect diagrams and measurements which, if the GLA and diagrams were correct, would have resulted in some serious bargaining power as a buyer. And, imagine if we'd defaulted for some reason and then the VA realized they had a 200k loan being back for a 132-140k property?Quote:
Originally Posted by brutal