Gee...what a shock-more Socialist...voters

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Originally Posted by Stuart

"I fail to see how this ruling has anything to do with socialism."

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EXTRACT: “Of the more than 18,000 felons in [WA] state custody who could get back their right to vote under this ruling, 37.1 percent are minorities. Of that group, blacks make up the largest percentage, at 19.2 percent.”

Of the two viable options in the political arena today, both of which will remain the dominant party's over the next three national election cycles [~decade minimum] and most likely well into the future, which do you believe that potential 37% will gravitate to? The answer is obvious, this minority Bloc will bias Democrat, without question, for those that elect to exercise their “newly afforded” right anyway (only time and analysis will tell the real impact statistically). "Who is Muhammad Shabazz Farrakhan [Plaintiff] casting his vote for?"

Caveat, I guess one could presume “the other ~60%” impacted [i.e. the non-minority felons] could potentially slant right but statistics indicate only a moderate percentage of the demographic would do so.

I choose often, and will again, repetitively, here and elsewhere, to use the invective “Socialist” in reference to the current Democratic Party and those that support their policies and general philosophy [platform]. I do it to be disrespectful, express my disdain for the current Administration and to disparage anyone who suggests the current Democratic regime accountable to manage this country has any value. Put simply, I consider what used to be deemed a Democrat to now be defined as a Socialist, because that is what they have become.

Net – The majority of that ~37% that casts a vote will do so for the Socialist [aka Democrat, maybe “Progressive would be better?”] party. I don’t care if it is 1 vote or 10,000 votes, an incarcerated felon casting a vote for Oba’Mao or his unknown predecessor in the future is a vote for Socialism.

If you fail to see or appreciate my choice to associate current or potential Democratic supporters [voters] as Socialists I’m good with that. Maybe I’ll choose to post nothing but literal and direct content in the future to avoid confusion Stuart. Maybe.

Lastly, the side-bar running in parallel above re: “should a convicted felon be afforded full recovery of their rights post-societal debt being paid?” I’ll leave that debate for another day but my perspective, "yeah; I concur with that on principal but that’s whole other discussion." Frankly, I couldn’t care less whether that ever becomes a topic of national interest or not.

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Originally Posted by Stuart

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes.

You have to look into what I said deeper than just the surface. If someone can't be trusted to live in society without all their rights, then they shouldn't be in society, period. If you are child molester and no one trusts you to be around children, then it's life or the noose for you.

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I think we should consider other possibilities. Although I do like the thoughts of public hangings in town square on Saturday, I think we should entertain the notion of bringing back firing squads as well. In addition to, not instead of. But the hangings should be required attendance for kids in juvenile detention, in the hopes that they'd decide that they didn't want the same fate. I have said before, and I still think, rapists and murderers of small children should get one appeal, technicalities should not be allowed, and then they should be executed without delay. Same with serial killers and rapists. I fail to see why we should house and feed them for the rest of their lives.

I guess I am going to be the odd man out on this one. I do not believe that convicted felons should get their right to vote back automatically. But, there is a process in most states for convicted felons to petition through the courts for their right to vote, and if successful, they get their right to vote and hold public office restored.

Do not confuse this with their right to bear arms, that is not included in the rights restored, only those rights related to voting and public office. Case in point, many inmates earn their law degree while incarcerated but many states will not allow a convicted felon to take the Bar Exam and become licensed attorneys, so they can petition the court to allow those rights to be restored so they can become productive citizens of society.

I am all for that aspect of the process, but it should always be on a case by case basis and not automatic. Look for this to be overtuned on appeal, the state of Washington will most likely pursue this appeal all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Cheers.

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Originally Posted by Troublco

and I still think, rapists and murderers of small children should get one appeal, technicalities should not be allowed, and then they should be executed without delay. Same with serial killers and rapists. I fail to see why we should house and feed them for the rest of their lives.

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So how many innocent men would you have killed? http://www.innocenceproject.org/know...e-Profiles.php

While this attitude of 'kill em all' may appeal greatly to the primeval sense of revenge we carry in all of us, it doesn't belong in the legal system of a civilized people. While justice should be harsh on the guilty, it should also recognize anything human is flawed and have the capability of reversing itself and righting a wrong. Kind of hard to do after the innocent are executed.

Double post.

Don't know... I'm a black or white type of guy. I do not like grey areas. If you did something where you landed in prison, then all rights should be stripped from you. Upon release, maybe some given back, but not all.

I think we can all agree upon the rapist or whatever losing all rights, forever, period.

I think about the 18 year old that got busted for drugs and sent to jail like this:

He's 18, should be held accountable for his actions. At 18, you are seen as a full adult. Depending on the amount of drugs (misdemeanor vs felony) several things can happen -
- A. Misdemeanor falls under probation, maybe one night in jail, etc.
- B. Felony is a several year prison stint.

Upon A. Sure, let teh kid keep his rights, we all make mistakes. But let the punishment be harsh and initmately understood that he is respsonisble for his own actions.

Upon B. Strip all rights, period. It was a conscious descison to sell, traffic, whatever the charge in a certain amount of illegal drugs.

Bottom line is that individuals are responsible for their own actions. Do I believe people can change? Sure. Do I believe some people get a raw deal in life (crappy home life, no father figure, etc)? Sure. Do I believe people are in charge of their own life and descisions no matter the circumstance? Hell yes. If we held people to a higher standard I bet things would turn around in a hurry. Instead our politicians and a lot of the voting constituency are themselves ex-cons, etc who want to "change" things to make what they illegally did, legal. Look at the marijuana wars currently taking place in our country.

Marijuana and such has been around for millenia. It is a naturally occuring plant. Native Americans used it in ceremonies. It is a mind altering drug, and it DOES lead to harder drug use. However, do I personally think it should be illegal? No, it is a naturally occuring substance. Do I partake in marijuana? No, I see no personal benefits in it for me. It is a mood changer, and I try to stay in control of my body/actions at all times. Do I believe it should be sold in stores or on street corners or in any way regulated? Definitely not. How would I vote for it? In the negative. I believe that is a personal descision that should be made. Should it be a crime to grow/possess? No. Should it be a crime to sell to minors, distribute, etc? Actually, I do. Hard to explain my feelings, but something along the lines of concrete and abstract emotional thought maturity occur at different times in childhood. Sometimes, depending on age, children do not have a solid connection on what something can do to them. Hence kids that stick their hands in electrical sockets when told not too, etc. Since the brain has not reached full maturity, smoking pot, etc can damage critical synapses that have yet to be formed and thus.... the dumbing down of our society... Kind of make sme want to go watch that movie "Idiocricy" again. HA.

Much the same thoughts on beer, cigarettes, etc. But I understand the gooberment needs some sort of tax income... lol.

Now I'm just rambling...Your thoughts?


In answer to Mutt's post... then the prosecuting attorney should be given the same fate! HAHAHA. j/k (Looks like the 80's was a busy decade for prosecutors!)

You know before you commit a felony that if you get caught, you lose your right to vote.

So anyone who HAS lost their right to vote has willingly chose to give that up in the event they get caught for their crime.

That's the problem with today's world. No-one wants to deal with the consequences of their actions.

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Originally Posted by iamhunter

That's the problem with today's world. No-one wants to deal with the consequences of their actions.

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Bingo! That's what I was trying to say... Individual responsibility. We pander to the low side of the equation too much. It drags down the middle and good sides.

Man, I type too much. I do have a job to do. See y'all in a few, lol.

Criminalization of Marijuana - The greatest current waste of resources and human potential in our legal system.

It should be legalized, legally grown and regulated, taxed and sold right next to your smokes and booze. Prohibition does not work when a large chunk of a society sees no problems with a prohibited item. Did the criminal empires built and lives ruined over the legality of alcohol teach us nothing? Apparently not.

Legalizing weed would have 3 major effects:
1. The end of all drug wars where criminals attempt to control distribution and production of weed. Once corporations get involved in something, the downward spiral of profit margins chases criminals out.

2. Our prisons get a lot less crowed. Non-violent drug offenders make up a good chunk of our prison population. I for one don't like funding the food and sheltering of people who like to smoke weed unless they committed a real crime. You would think the world is seriously wrong if hundreds of thousands of people were locked up for drinking alcohol or smoking cigarettes, yet imprisonment for weed is ok?

3. Massive increase in tax revenue. Right now govt gets nothing for the billions spent on weed. People are buying it anyway, might as well have some societal benefit to it. If you doubt it would help govt coffers, just look at the revenue generated from booze and smokes.

There's my rambling to the whole weed issue. And before you think I'm some hippie pothead, I'm not. I never smoked weed (but I would try it once if were legal), drink maybe once a year, and don't smoke. I just believe on common sense over ideology.

As for felons getting the right to vote, that's delegated to the states by The Constitution. Each state, hopefully according to the will of its residents, gets to decide this issue for themselves.

Individual responsibility - totally agree. People need to be held to account for their choices. If we enforced this more, the world would be a better place.

Good stuff Mutt. Didn't think about those points. The only problem I would have it that making something legal (when I do agree it probably should be in the first place since it's a naturally occuring substance) doesn't nessecarily make it... healthful? I don't know how to qualify that reasoning. I'm thinking along the lines of look at all the alcoholics that are a drain on society, etc. Just some more thoughts. I don't think there is a right or wrong on this issue. That is probably why it's one of such a universal contention.