Military Leadership Diversity Commission

Don't mistake the princesses playing at entering the IDF with some of our good old American country gals. I'm far more concerned about open homosexuals serving than having women in combat units as long as the women don't ask for or expect special conditions or treatment. I'm not saying we want to be like the Norwegian Navy with women sailing while very visibly pregnant.

I've made plenty of jokes about propane-powered hair curlers but we have women who can run most men ragged, shoot with precision, and keep their cool under fire. Granted, they're not the majority but there are enough of them out there that I no longer have the objections I once had. Hell, I'd rather have them on the line than a lot of the gangbanger-wannabes who want to spray-n-pray like they do in their video games.

^^^ This..

Way back when I was learning how to save life and limb under hostile conditions. We had a young lady with us that was all of 4'10" and "might" have weighed 95 pound soaking wet and holding 10 pounds of weight.

I'm sure she made a fine medic, as long as she didn't get out of the confines of a hospital or a TMC..

Being a proud former Infantryman with the 82D Airborne Div, I'm vocally against women in combat units for a handful of reasons.

1. In general, women can't physically keep up with men. Call me sexist, but I can think of only one or two women who could meet the Army APFT standards for men. The one girl who I served with who could hold her own in a PT test didn't have the strength to carry a standard infantry combat load. Yes, she killed it on the pushup, situp and 2mile run, but there wasn't a chance she could carry me out of a firefight. She'd be lucky to make it a mile with a standard infantry combat load, which averages around 100lbs. I once carried a load of nearly 140 lbs. That freakin' sucked. If women want the opportunity, they need to meet the same standards as the men, and I'm not talking about reducing the men's standards so women can meet it.

2. Most men are protective of women. That could prove hazardous in a firefight when a bunch of guys rush to the aid of a down female instead of maintaining discipline and doing what they are supposed to do.

3. Despite "regulations" in place about porn, sexual harassment, etc., being in a front-line deployed combat unit is like living in a locker room environment. Those regulations weren't really enforced with us. Add a few women to the equation: relationships form, jealousy happens, pregnancy happens, etc... For those of you in the military, how many couples did you see form in AIT?

4. IDF has tried to put women in the front lines. One of the results was that their Arab opponents fought harder against units that had women. They couldn't stand the thought of a woman beating them. Also, their Arab opponents would have a higher tendency to desecrate the bodies of the women. This absolutely destroyed the morale of men in the units.

Personally, while I am extremely vocal against change of both policies, I'd rather see gay guys in an infantry unit than females in an infantry unit. Of course, these are my observations and opinions, and I'm sure the desk-jockey "experts" know all about life as a front-line combat arms soldier...

(/RANT)

-Jon

jonnyd49:

You are new to the forum, but you can look through the previous posts regarding the loss of DADT and see the opinions of the members on gays in the military.

I, myself am a former 11B, and agree with you wholeheartedly. As I argued in the previous forum on gays, those who are looking to force the change have never been in a combat unit or even in the military. They see it as a social issue, not as the combat readiness issue that it is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OneGuy67

jonnyd49:

You are new to the forum, but you can look through the previous posts regarding the loss of DADT and see the opinions of the members on gays in the military.

I, myself am a former 11B, and agree with you wholeheartedly. As I argued in the previous forum on gays, those who are looking to force the change have never been in a combat unit or even in the military. They see it as a social issue, not as the combat readiness issue that it is.

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My apologies if I'm ruffling feathers. As a new guy, that's not really my intent, and I'm sincerely apologetic if it comes off that way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jonnyd49

My apologies if I'm ruffling feathers. As a new guy, that's not really my intent, and I'm sincerely apologetic if it comes off that way.

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I don't see any reason for apologies-it's a public forum and your opinions matter here. Welcome [Beer]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jonnyd49

My apologies if I'm ruffling feathers. As a new guy, that's not really my intent, and I'm sincerely apologetic if it comes off that way.

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Oh no, you aren't! I'm just making you aware that we've discussed the DADT issue ad nauseum in earlier posts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jonnyd49

Being a proud former Infantryman with the 82D Airborne Div, I'm vocally against women in combat units for a handful of reasons.

1. In general, women can't physically keep up with men. Call me sexist, but I can think of only one or two women who could meet the Army APFT standards for men. The one girl who I served with who could hold her own in a PT test didn't have the strength to carry a standard infantry combat load. Yes, she killed it on the pushup, situp and 2mile run, but there wasn't a chance she could carry me out of a firefight. She'd be lucky to make it a mile with a standard infantry combat load, which averages around 100lbs. I once carried a load of nearly 140 lbs. That freakin' sucked. If women want the opportunity, they need to meet the same standards as the men, and I'm not talking about reducing the men's standards so women can meet it.

2. Most men are protective of women. That could prove hazardous in a firefight when a bunch of guys rush to the aid of a down female instead of maintaining discipline and doing what they are supposed to do.

3. Despite "regulations" in place about porn, sexual harassment, etc., being in a front-line deployed combat unit is like living in a locker room environment. Those regulations weren't really enforced with us. Add a few women to the equation: relationships form, jealousy happens, pregnancy happens, etc... For those of you in the military, how many couples did you see form in AIT?

4. IDF has tried to put women in the front lines. One of the results was that their Arab opponents fought harder against units that had women. They couldn't stand the thought of a woman beating them. Also, their Arab opponents would have a higher tendency to desecrate the bodies of the women. This absolutely destroyed the morale of men in the units.

Personally, while I am extremely vocal against change of both policies, I'd rather see gay guys in an infantry unit than females in an infantry unit. Of course, these are my observations and opinions, and I'm sure the desk-jockey "experts" know all about life as a front-line combat arms soldier...

(/RANT)

-Jon

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I am not nor have I ever been in the military but this makes a lot of sense to me...especially #1. If you can't carry your weight in gear or your injured buddies out you shouldn't be there. And I can imagine that would cause an awful lot of animosity among the men in the same unit as a woman who couldn't have their back if SHTF. I imagine you guys wouldn't take too kindly to a woman (or anyone) on your team that couldn't pull your ass out if you needed it...and rightfully so. What good is a team member that you can't trust with your life? No kind of team, military or otherwise, functions at top performance if the team members have any sort of animosity towards each other.

Just my desk-jockey thoughts on the subject...