AZ immigration laws

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Originally Posted by Elhuero

people who are so vehemently opposed to this effort, calling it racist, because they know it will work.

cry about oppression all you like, illegal is illegal.

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Really? How exactly will it work? Will AZ deport those it deems illegal? It can't. Only the Federal Government can deport someone. All AZ can do is call ICE on someone suspected of being illegal. If ICE refuses to pick them up, what are they going to do? Detain that individual indefinitely? Pretty sure they can't do that even if they wanted to.

How many white skinned people are going to be asked to proved their legal status during a traffic stop? Zero, nada, ziltch. How many American citizens of hispanic, arabic, or non-white descent are going to be detained and forced to prove their status? Plenty.

And I'm not vehemently opposed to immigration reform and enforcement. I'm vehemently opposed to what will become nothing more than a means to harass American citizens who fit a certain profile. And we'll still have tens of millions of illegals moving about and entering the country. Fix the problem where it should be fixed - at the borders and at the federal level. Until Washington chooses to enforce the law on its books, nothing will get fixed.

 
Good points.

But let’s explore another one: force all small business to verify the work status of their employee / daily worker. Let the news spread in Chihuahua or Montreal that you can’t get a job anymore, they won’t cross the border….
One of my client is in the landscaping business, and he is always complaining that there too many immigrant in this country, yet when I asked him if he always check the GC of his seasonal employee, he laughed really hard, and admitted that he couldn’t stay competitive if he did that….
 
 
 
 

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Originally Posted by mutt

How many white skinned people are going to be asked to proved their legal status during a traffic stop? Zero, nada, ziltch. How many American citizens of hispanic, arabic, or non-white descent are going to be detained and forced to prove their status? Plenty.

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well boo freakin' hoo hoo.

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Originally Posted by mutt

Until Washington chooses to enforce the law on its books, nothing will get fixed.

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you do realize you're attacking your own point of view, right? this is the exact reason why AZ is taking action. the fed govt dropped the ball for decades, and the locals in AZ paid for it. now they're trying to fix things, by drafting a bill that is LESS RESTRICTIVE than the federal immigration laws.

of course the law is immediately attacked as racist, because it is completely racist to try and enforce laws if the people breaking the law are of a sufficiently homogeneous background.

francisco jose del la cruz ramirez sanchez is here illegally. he runs a stop sign and gets pulled over. cop is going to write him a ticket, but lo and behold paco can't prove he's a citizen, becuase he's not. paco goes bye bye back to sinaloa.

the only racism in that situation your own, that you expose by eschewing the rule of law in favor of selective obedience to the law for a few.

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Originally Posted by ruthabagah

Good points.

But let’s explore another one: force all small business to verify the work status of their employee / daily worker. Let the news spread in Chihuahua or Montreal that you can’t get a job anymore, they won’t cross the border….
One of my client is in the landscaping business, and he is always complaining that there too many immigrant in this country, yet when I asked him if he always check the GC of his seasonal employee, he laughed really hard, and admitted that he couldn’t stay competitive if he did that….

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That law already exists. Employers can't knowingly hire illegals. Of course the Federal Govt doesn't really give businesses a means to accurately check status because businesses wants cheap labor. Now states are free to put in their own laws regarding checks but if the Federal government won't give them the means to accurately verify legal status, then again it's a waste of time. And even if one is caught employing illegals, they basically just get a slap on the hand.

Immigration is broken because certain groups want it that way. Until this country chooses to do what's right for the country over what's good for business, nothing will change.

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Originally Posted by Elhuero

well boo freakin' hoo hoo.

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Yeah, until you're the one who's stopped and detained for hours or days because you couldn't prove your legal status on the spot. Funny how we don't care what happens to others so long as it doesn't affect us. Then again I'm guessing you're probably caucasian, so you have little chance of actually being asked to prove legal status/citizenship.

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Originally Posted by Elhuero

you do realize you're attacking your own point of view, right? this is the exact reason why AZ is taking action. the fed govt dropped the ball for decades, and the locals in AZ paid for it. now they're trying to fix things, by drafting a bill that is LESS RESTRICTIVE than the federal immigration laws.

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I don't follow your logic on how I'm attacking my own point of view. My point of view is States DO NOT have the authority to deport or make immigration policy. Passing any immigration law is pointless since states can't enforce anything. All they can do is transfer custody of an immigration violation suspect to ICE. If ICE refuses to take custody, which they do regularly, what is a state going to do?

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Originally Posted by Elhuero

francisco jose del la cruz ramirez sanchez is here illegally. he runs a stop sign and gets pulled over. cop is going to write him a ticket, but lo and behold paco can't prove he's a citizen, becuase he's not. paco goes bye bye back to sinaloa.

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No, Paco will be turned over to ICE because AZ has no authority to deport. ICE, even if it accepts custody, will probably just catch and release like they do now. Again, this problem is a federal one. The federal govt needs to enforce its own laws and quit pandering to the special interests. Your belief that states have some kind of power over immigration is misguided. All these initiatives are nothing more than grand standing, and AZ knows it.

the other big step, while we are securing the border, is to stop all instant citizenships to foreigners in this country. what i mean is if you are here illegaly, your kids dont get free citizenship. if you are here legally, but not a citizen your kids do not become instant Americans. They can enter the system though to become citizens. this will stop alot of the illegals of whatever color. asking for proof of citizenship at the social services will help. no free money, without proof. period.

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Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck

the other big step, while we are securing the border, is to stop all instant citizenships to foreigners in this country. what i mean is if you are here illegaly, your kids dont get free citizenship. if you are here legally, but not a citizen your kids do not become instant Americans. They can enter the system though to become citizens. this will stop alot of the illegals of whatever color.

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And that's going to require another constitutional amendment clarifying exactly what 'and subject to the jurisdiction thereof' actually means in Section 1, Clause 1 of the 14th. I personally agree that children of illegals should not be instant citizens because their parents were not subject the jurisdiction of the United States, but the courts over the years have interpreted this differently.

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Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck

asking for proof of citizenship at the social services will help. no free money, without proof. period.

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Bingo. And states do have the right and authority to do so. Asking people to provide documentation before getting state services is totally valid and would be far more effective than asking cops and hospitals to act as immigration officers. Yet many states do not have proof of citizenship as a requirement before providing social services. Funny. Effective tools are ignored while ineffective ones are touted to show how 'tough' politicians are on illegals. Seems no one has any interest in really fixing anything so long as there is money to be made off a steady flow of illegal, and underpaid, labor.

@Mutt

USCIS - E-verify

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U.S. law requires companies to employ only individuals who may legally work in the United States – either U.S. citizens, or foreign citizens who have the necessary authorization. This diverse workforce contributes greatly to the vibrancy and strength of our economy, but that same strength also attracts unauthorized employment.

E-Verify is an Internet-based system that allows businesses to determine the eligibility of their employees to work in the United States. E-Verify is fast, free and easy to use – and it’s the best way employers can ensure a legal workforce.

E-Verify is constantly improving to better serve you.

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http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/usc...004718190aRCRD

@Ranger,
The most downloaded USCIS pdf forms are in Spanish. Most if not all new UCCIS new hires are spanish speaking. Unless US declares its National Language, one can claim it is his right to sign contract/form in his language. On my personal experience, I have been to Citizenship sworn in 4-5 times now. It's funny how if you go to the local USCIS office, I'd estimate 90% of the applicants are spanish speaking - which is along the line of number ratio of the illegal immigrants in the country. However, at the citizenship sworn in, 80% of the new citizens are Europeans, Asians, among others and I would say less than 10% are hispanic. I would say stop the bilingual BS and make it fair for everyone... by declaring a National Language.

@Ruthabagah,
The idea behind the ID check is because non permanent resident immigrants can obtain ID upto the expiration date on the visa. Driver license offices in CO stop issuing 10 year ID/DL if you are a visitor or temporary visa holder. They match the expiration to the visa. LE or even ICE officers use ID/DL as the first indication of status. The mind boggling part is the conservatives do not want National ID system, while we want border security. The liberals want stronger National ID system while trying to protect illegal immigrants at the same time. Anyone else sees the contradiction?

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Originally Posted by MB888

@Mutt

USCIS - E-verify



http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/usc...004718190aRCRD

@Ranger,
The most downloaded USCIS pdf forms are in Spanish. Most if not all new UCCIS new hires are spanish speaking. Unless US declares its National Language, one can claim it is his right to sign contract/form in his language. On my personal experience, I have been to Citizenship sworn in 4-5 times now. It's funny how if you go to the local USCIS office, I'd estimate 90% of the applicants are spanish speaking - which is along the line of number ratio of the illegal immigrants in the country. However, at the citizenship sworn in, 80% of the new citizens are Europeans, Asians, among others and I would say less than 10% are hispanic. I would say stop the bilingual BS and make it fair for everyone... by declaring a National Language.

@Ruthabagah,
The idea behind the ID check is because non legal immigrants can obtain ID upto the expiration date on the visa. Driver license offices in CO stop issuing 10 year ID/DL if you are a visitor or temporary visa holder. They match the expiration to the visa.

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E-verify is voluntary for most employers. Only the federal govt, federal contractors, some H-1B visa instances and OPT extensions are required to use e-verify. Previous attempts to make it mandatory for all employers have been shot down in congress. Huh. Again, effective tools are ignored. Seems congress talks the talk to the public while pandering to the special interests behind closed doors. Imagine that.

Arizona is among some states that have made e-verify checking mandatory for all businesses (within their right), yet they still have an illegal problem. Seems people who hire illegal workers don't bother putting them on the books to begin with. Guess the profits are greater than the risk. Maybe Arizona should make enforcing their current laws a priority instead of making new, ineffectual ones. Then again, I don't think politicians in AZ are really serious about solving anything. They just want to look tough so they can get votes at election time.

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Originally Posted by mutt

Except for those who are here legally but not citizens. And starting the citizenship processes doesn't require proficiency, just finishing it does.

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That was tongue and cheek my friend... Try not to take it personally.