arrrgggg , what the F*CK!!!!!

Forgive me for my ignorance, I don't know where that is. I am also looking for some nice places to shoot that are free.

But if I may, let me read between the lines here. I think the hippie guy did that on purpose. He most likely does not like guns and figured if he can drive off the shooters, that he would be helping the environment. One dump will go a long way for that.

Now do I think you can reason with him? No clue... About the only thing you could do is call the cops. But even then, I am not sure how he broke the law, but he may have.

Alxone.... I also think you did the right thing. While I think it may have been a good idea to tell those guys to clean up their crap. I am not you. If you yourself feel that you may have lost your temper and put your own freedom at risk by starting a fight, then the best course of action is what you did. In the end, your own life is more important and you have to make that decision. Be thankful for your own rationality. Perhaps if you did not feel you were prone to that you could have talked to them or the hippie. But you do what you think is best.

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Originally Posted by CHA-LEE

I am confused..... You catch some dead beats being dead beats but don't say anything to them. But then expect them to magically know what they are doing wrong and change their habits????

I don't mean to bust your balls, but expecting people to change their habits by NOT pointing out their bad habits or beating around the bush isn't going to work.

If you find someone being a dead beat, call them out on it right then and there. You don't have to be confrontational about it, simply state the facts in a calm professional manner. If you do that, the people that are willing to change will change. But keep in mind that people who choose to be dead beats will be just that.

As much time and money you have spent trying to keep that place clean you could have paid for a membership to a private range. Maybe its time to invest in a private range membership so you don't have to deal with the dead beats?

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im not talking about young hippies at all they are old .these guys have been at it for almost 20 years and have been kicked out of more than one place . what do you say to someone who already knows that they are a fuck up? on some level id rather them hiding in parks and leaching off the shooting community than begging on a street corner or taking up space time and money in the justice system .

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Originally Posted by nynco

Forgive me for my ignorance, I don't know where that is. I am also looking for some nice places to shoot that are free.

But if I may, let me read between the lines here. I think the hippie guy did that on purpose. He most likely does not like guns and figured if he can drive off the shooters, that he would be helping the environment. One dump will go a long way for that.

Now do I think you can reason with him? No clue... About the only thing you could do is call the cops. But even then, I am not sure how he broke the law, but he may have.

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the only law thats been broken as stated by him was squatting and i get the feeling that its not exactly south site but someplace close .
and yes i know myself very well and walking away is the best thing for me .

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Originally Posted by Marlin

Why do you think I got so disillusioned doing it.

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i now see why there is no clean up section on the forum . the best we can do is pick up more than we bring in and hope others do the same .

I know why we dont just "hope others do the same."


Left-Hand Canyon.


Its a fucking shame that people expect others to clean up after them.
well I guess after all of the open sites get shut down the shitheads can go pay at a public pay-range.

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Originally Posted by alxone

i now see why there is no clean up section on the forum . the best we can do is pick up more than we bring in and hope others do the same .

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I don't think there needs to be a clean up section. Most I know on here when they go shoot clean up after themselves and usually take more out than they brought in. I understand your concerns and all, and don't take this as a personal attack, but it just appears to me, through simple observation, that you can get a little obsessive over the whole "clean up the ranges campaign." I too would be very pissed at this situation, but hate to be the one to tell you, there are d-bags and a-holes out there, it's just the way it is... best we can do is try to logically and rationally educate people when we use our public land for our favorite sport and pastime.

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

best we can do is try to logically and rationally educate people when we use our public land for our favorite sport and pastime.

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man I hate to break this to you... left hand canyon is closed for this very reason.

trash, damage and human waste...

and its not getting any better.

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

I don't think there needs to be a clean up section. Most I know on here when they go shoot clean up after themselves and usually take more out than they brought in. I understand your concerns and all, and don't take this as a personal attack, but it just appears to me, through simple observation, that you can get a little obsessive over the whole "clean up the ranges campaign." I too would be very pissed at this situation, but hate to be the one to tell you, there are d-bags and a-holes out there, it's just the way it is... best we can do is try to logically and rationally educate people when we use our public land for our favorite sport and pastime.

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yes you are correct , but i was trying to educate by example . there have been plenty of days when no forum members show up but random people jump in only because they see someone else doing it . on a whole south site is a cleaner place and not just from my efforts . left hand is still a toilet .i might be a bit over zealous about trying to include folks but hey , you cant get people involved by not being excited about it. dont worry ill go back to keeping it to myself .you wont have to read it any more and the visitors to the forum who would not normally get involved can stay uninvolved .

The best we can all do is lead by example and scold those who don't live up to the standards.