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For cheaper glass I have been surprisingly happy with my HDMR. I can tell the difference between it and a S&B PMII or something from US Optics, but for the money the HDMR is pretty damn good.
As for FFP - yes it is totally worth it to be able to range at any magnification (or at least to have 1 formula for ranging). As someone else also said go with either mil/mil or moa/moa - doing the conversions to mil/moa or moa/mil is a total pain in the backside.
Yes.. this one is a BIG PLUS!Quote:
Originally Posted by asmotao
I just love the Weaver T-36 for strickly long range work. I love the T-24 more but it is no longer available. The T-36 is pretty dark with only a 1.1mm exit pupil because of the smaller objective lens, but most long range is done in good light making it almost a moot point.
An older article but the principals and reasoning are just as valid now , http://demigodllc.com/articles/pract...ooting-optics/ ,
Read this it will answer a lot of your questions .
IMO 8-900 gets you entry level glass for a precision rifle , high end glass doesn't start till about triple that .
Nightforce is the best bang for your dollar now but a used one will run 12 - 1500 and the new ones are knocking on 2k now . The only Nightforce that I've seen returned for work was because the rifle was dropped on the concrete and it landed on the windage knob .
The new Leupold stuff shows promise but there old offerings are lacking in the reliability and repeatability market . Pretty much all of us started with Leupy's and between them breaking and tracking issues nobody uses them anymore .
The new HDMR from Bushnell that I played with the glass was on par with the Leupold but the turrets were really mushy and it is in the 1500 range now . I know of 2 of these that didn't make it through 1 complete precision rifle class cycle before they broke .
The higher end Vortex stuff has a decent reputation but there lower end stuff has mixed to poor reviews for the same issues as Leupy .
I've seen half a dozen or so IOR's take a dump and need to be returned for warranty work .
The best advice for entry level glass I can give is look at SWFA's Super Sniper line if you cant wait and then spend the time saving your cash for something else down the line . The SS scopes typically hold there used value better than the other entry level stuff so you'll be able to recoup more of your money when you upgrade .
Decide your budget. Get what works best for your eyes and application. Don't be so concerned about what name it carries but focus on the features and how well it works for you.
I can't justify a NF or USO for what I do.
I have been very happy with my Nikons. Great glass and I think you get a lot for what you don't pay for.
Just my .02
I would say only spend money on high-dollar scopes if your ability equals their quality. Very few of us can do anything that a Nikon Monarch with the BDC reticle can't. Maayybe a 10x SuperSniper- but they are very heavy.
Saddling yourself with cheap glass is a good way to limit your abilities because of the issues inherent with them . Its not optical quality that is the number one criteria its the accuracy and repeatability of the adjustments . If the scope does not track properly or more importantly repeatedly it will cause issues with shot placement . These issues are more often than not dismissed as shooter error when it really is an equipment issue .
It is always a good idea to buy the highest quality equipment that you can given circumstances whether it be firearms or tools or what not . Can't say I've heard someone say that they were disappointed in the performance of quality equipment but I sure have heard people grouching about be let down by " cheap " stuff all the time .
Driving a precision rifle is all about constancy and repeatability , if the most important part in that equation , the sighting system , is neither the results will suffer .
I've got the vortex you speak of. I haven't seen anything that eats it til about double the price but that's not as an owner of them just using friends' really "high end" glass. Personally I think for most of us spending over a grand on optics ends up being a waste. Not that many people can really out shoot their $1000 glass. Don't get me wrong if I had endless funds and money wasn't an issue I'd get as top of the line as possible but scopes like the viper pst ate plenty clear and reliable. I've shot a 223 out to 600 yards and 308 out to close to 1000 and done well. Mind you I consider myself a novice shooter. That coupled with only a mediocre rifle makes me think out shooting the scope will take me a while.
An ideal situation is to look through a few OUtDOORs and seeing what you prefer but that's obviously tough to do
I'll contribute my .02... I only started shooting LR 2 years ago, have only shot out to 1k or so, so I am no expert.
My first rifle came with a 6-20x40 Leupold VXIII, a very nice scope but had 2 drawbacks. First was the reticle (varmint hunters) a good reticle for varmints, but not great for real LR shooting. Second was the eye relief. It was tough to get it right, I kept getting a lot of scope shadow and was a strain on the eyes for long periods.
I was originally looking at Viper PST's, SWFA and Nightforce. The PST's were always out of stock/back-ordered. The Nightforce's are very nice, but to get a 20x FFP mil/mil it would be around $2k (although they can be had for just over $1k for the 3-15x SFP demo's at Mile High Shooting Supply!). A member here let me check out his SWFA and I did like it. He also let me check out a very nice IOR Valdada (check this http://tinyurl.com/6qwwhr2)
I just traded my Leupold into SWFA for $600/credit and bought the SWFA 50-20x50 HD (on sale) and so far so good! It is heavy, but so is the rifle... The glass is very clear and the reticle is good for me, no regrets so far. Their warranty/customer service is awesome too. I just picked up a SWFA 10x mil/mil (same reticle) for a trainer rifle.
With all that being said...
My shooting partner picked up his LR rifle 2 years ago also, (but grew up shooting and served in the Army) He bought a Vortex Crossfire 6-20x50 for $175+/-. The first Scope failed right away. He call Vortex and they sent him a new one in 4 days no questions asked. With the replacement scope he zero'd at 100 yards, then zero'd his turrets. We then shot out to a 10" gong at just over a 1k yards. After that he dialed back to zero and hit a perfect on bullseye on paper at 100y again. Next trip he confirmed zero at 100y, dialed to 1k and hit with the 5 shot. Then back to 100 before we left.
Ultimately I thing the shooter is the most important part. Glass is nice, but not necessarily everything. Shoot me a PM if you want to come by and check out my scope.
If you just plan on doing Kentucky windage and elevation, a cheap-ish scope will be fine.
Its when you start giving those knobs a workout that the expensive scopes pay off.