Try looking at classic firearms.com, they've got a Norinco "coach gun" for under $300.
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Try looking at classic firearms.com, they've got a Norinco "coach gun" for under $300.
So external hammers are just a correctness thing or are there advantages over the internal hammer designs? My Dad's getting up there in years. I think not having to cock hammers every time he wants to shoot would be a good thing. His 73 year old hands aren't want they used to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnTRourke
He likes the look. Maybe he watched too many John Wayne movies in his youth, I dunno. All I know is he likes the style. This thing will never go hunting. It will get shot a few times a year when I take him to the range. It'll look nice in his gun case and he'll have fun cleaning it (even though it's not dirty) and tinkering with it in his spare time. I just want to make sure I get him a descent, reliable one.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnTRourke
So in your opinion what advantages does the CZ have over the Stoeger? The only difference I really see (other than the external hammers) is the CZ is more ornate.
on internal hammers, you cock the hammers when you open the action. (which is actually quite a brilliant leap when you think about it) so it's always harder to open than a external hammers.Quote:
Originally Posted by mutt
Typically (not always) a external hammer double doesn't have a safety (it doesn't need one). if the hammers are back it's ready to fire. Also you want to know if it has rebounding hammers. (the hammers pop back a little after firing so you can still open the gun) or not (you have to pop them back a little). if the hammers are back it's a live gun and the manual of arms is a little different than what we are used to. Some modern hammer guns have a safety. (which is redundant, but it's how most of us learned to shoot)
A well made hammer gun is unbelievably thin thru the wrist (because the hammers are outside). A mid 1870's English hammer gun has an almost sexy feel. (so thin you can't believe it)
http://mwreynolds.com/SHOOTING/wcsco...pecialdam1.jpg
I've handled this gun. made in 1878 (yes, that's right, 140 years old) it looks and feels brand new. it was only priced at $2750 and although it had BP proofs, it was very shootable with modern low pressure 2.5" shells.
You cock the hammers with your thumbs, so if his thumbs still work and feel good, you might go for that.
The quality of the CZ is levels of magnitude beyond the stoeger. The wood, the feel, the metal to wood fit, the quality of the parts, etc. If you get a CZ it will mostly feel like a good double should. (they tend to be a little heavy, but not bad). The Steoger is a walmart gun. it works (mostly) but the concept is just not quite right. (because it takes handwork to get a good double and hand work is expensive).Quote:
He likes the look. Maybe he watched too many John Wayne movies in his youth, I dunno. All I know is he likes the style. This thing will never go hunting. It will get shot a few times a year when I take him to the range. It'll look nice in his gun case and he'll have fun cleaning it (even though it's not dirty) and tinkering with it in his spare time. I just want to make sure I get him a descent, reliable one.
So in your opinion what advantages does the CZ have over the Stoeger? The only difference I really see (other than the external hammers) is the CZ is more ornate.
If the stoeger breaks, it's not worth fixing. (it's what? $300? brand new, $200 used if you can get anyone to buy it), the CZ will last a lifetime, and if it doesn't it is worth fixing. (about $700 right?)
BTW, I'm not the hugest CZ fan in the world. It is how I got started in doubles but I did have my issues with them. If it was me, i'd save my money and buy something like that WC Scott above. but, of course, I've already been bitten by the "doubles bug" and once bitten there is no cure, but continued treatment is possible. But really for everyday shooting, the CZ will do great, and it will last, be able to be handed down, and you can proudly say "this was Grandpa's gun" when you hand it to your kids.
A short barreled double is a bitch to shoot well. There's no weight out on the ends so it doesn't swing. it just stops. For a 12ga and a typical sized guy (over 5'10") I'd want to see 28" barrels. My wife shoots a 26" barrel, but she's 5'4" with a 12.5" length of pull. it works for her. For me, ti's just a point and pull the trigger gun.
i hope that helps. Let us know what you get and more importantly how it shoots. I'd want to handle some because fit is very important. Gunsport in Boulder has a lot of doubles for a regular gun shop. From $200 wall hangers to $16,000 hammer guns (yeah, it's Italian, it's been there a while and it's beautiful) including a LOT of coach guns.
Wow, thanks for all the info. It was a great help. Since the CZ is such a better gun, I think I'm leaning more towards that now. I'll have to go play with one at one of the local stores and make sure the hammers won't be an issue. My Dad has revolvers and tends to be ok with cocking the hammers. So long as the CZ takes the same level of effort, he should be fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnTRourke
I have a Stoeger Condor 1 O/U and I love it. Stoeger is owned by Beretta. Not surprising since Beretta owns just about everybody nowadays. Don't listen to the naysayers about Stoeger quality, it's right there in the price range they sell for.
my stoeger runs just fine, but i got it for such a great price it was a no brainer to buy it
I can not speak for the coach gun but I have a Condor Field Combo model and it is a great for hunting and trap! I have considered purchasing a fancier over under but I see no reason as it has been very reliable and the quality has exceeded my expectations!