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Originally Posted by
Ronin13
So Rucker, can I get this straight, you're all for the rich "paying their fair share?" Do you join the rest of the left in claiming we should eat the rich?
So, Ronin, did I mention the rich anywhere here? I was pointing out that one reason that the poor pay less or no taxes is because they're poor.
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Let's take a look at America where the tax cap is at 55% (for many of the top of the food chain that's a 10% increase in taxes)...
The IRS standard rates top out at 35%, and AMT tops out at 28%.
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The top 5% of our nation who pays somewhere in the area of 65% of the taxes,
They do make a lot of money, and to pay 65% of the taxes, they have to make a lot of money. And since both the standard tax rate and the AMT treat capitial gains at 15%, they make a whole lot of money. That's just math.
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decides that if they're going to get rich they'd have to give up more than half of their earned income to government.
Less than half, which still leaves them a lot. A whole lot.
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A government that doesn't handle their money wisely, no less.
Granted, not all the time, but there's a good bit of good activity, too. YMMV.
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They decide that they don't like contributing more and more to a system that pretty much rewards laziness at the expense of their hard work.
So they move. Then you see that 5% paying 65% of the taxes drops to 2%. That's a pretty huge burden for such a small number.
I'm guessing there's no real data behind your decrease in the rich remaining in the tax base, and you presume that merely moving will remove the tax liability (hint: you can't move property). Lastly, the system doesn't reward laziness, but it does enable it in some circumstances. Is there anyone here who wouldn't work harder to be in a higher tax bracket? I know I would, if the opportunity was there.
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.. it would be even more unsustainable than currently and we wouldn't pull in enough money to cover all those expenses. Remember, if we cut out the federal government, and military, we still wouldn't have enough for all these entitlements and pensions. And cutting out the government is impossible (I mean really, we do need the TSA and the DHS and the Department of Education! /sarcasm), cutting out the military is stupid (yes it could use some reform, and reduction in wasteful spending). So the bad news is, we have to say goodbye to the welfare, medicaid, medicare, social security and other social programs as we know them, and dramatically reform them... to the point where yes, a lot of liberals/moderates/conservatives will get pissed, a lot of leeches/truly deserving will be butthurt.
Cuts need to be made in all areas, but no one wants their rice bowl touched. I do feel that there is waste in every level and sector of government, just as you do. I think we'd have different some ideas on what to cut, and how much. We'd want to take a long look at long term consequenes, but the US has never been very good at that. Next quarter, or next election, that's about as far as the decision makers can focus.
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I'll have you know right now, that with the way our tax code is, a lot of my friends who make a very decent amount of money refuse to let their wives work because their tax bracket is so high already.
Absent the idea of men refusing to let their wives work, let's take a look at this claim. Unless your friends are right on the edge of a tax bracket, and the incremental income the wives would bring to the household is tiny, the numbers just don't work out. Here are the current tax brackets:
http://www.emeraldhost.net/files/new...2042_chart.jpg
Can you pick out some numbers in the 25% or higher brackets where a wife making up to say 50% of the husbands salary doesn't pay off?
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So yes, let's eat the rich, let's pick their bones dry so they can pay for everyone else! That's stupid. How about instead of bitching about why these people don't make enough to pay taxes, we make it so we improve the system so they can make enough to pay taxes,
Okay, I'm bitching. I presume you're talking about more jobs, not increasing the minimum wage. What kind of jobs? Traditionally, manufacturing jobs have been the blue collar job of choice. How do we compete with overseas manufacturing costs? How do we convince American companies to create more jobs here instead of in Asia? I'm sure that corporate tax rates are a topic that will be considered, but how low would they have to go to impact job creation? Note that many small businesses are sole-proprietorships whose owners pay personal, not corporate income taxes, and that comparisons of nominal and effective corporate tax rates around the world don't include VAT, which is another tax paid in many of the western countries.
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[instead of taxing those who already pay more than their fair share. How about instead of complaining that they're too rich, we look at the fact that they pay the most in, and take the most out.
I hardly think that 15% is more than anyone's fair share. You do realize that much of the income of the very rich falls into capital gains and not ordinary income, right? If I can pay 28%, why can't they?
