Beer with a liberal

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There is not one single example of anything the government runs that is more efficient then true private sector capitalism. Not one.

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I know of one thing though small that they do better cost wise than the outside and that is only because they are not out to make a profit at it.

A PSA.. This is another topic that has the ability to spin out of control. Do not let it. I know the staff is tired of chasing kids around the school yard. I do not know why everyone is taking every major left vs right topic one by one and causing all this but reaction will be quick.[mop]

I am sorry you have an autistic son. I am even more sorry that you can't see how your politics is going to kill him someday. Because he will not have the skills to earn the cash to pay for the special needs that he has. Your autistic son could be the social Darwin victim that others are so wanton to cast into the trash pile. You think that schools that can handle autistic people are cheap. You are already receiving benefits that would be cut if other people that think like this had their way. He is a human like all Americans and the deserve to have healthcare to fulfill the "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" enshrined in the constitution. Because if you don't have your health, you have nothing.

The free market DOES work. What doesn't work are the constant infusions of "government" money that just raises prices, litigation culture that slows treatment and raises prices, and increasing bureaucracy that slows treatment and raises prices. Americans -- primarily conservatives -- are the most generous culture in the world in giving their own money to someone they see in need. My grandfather used to take chickens and vegetables as payment for his services; under Obamacare he'd probably be prevented from even seeing the patient until some government bureaucrat said it was okay. Interestingly, personal generosity seems to go down in direct relation to government distribution of goods and services or belief in the government as primary provider. Imagine my shock in high school to know I paid more in income taxes than Ted Kennedy did .. no longer shock to see I donated more to charity when I was in high school (and my only income was a paper route) than Joe Biden did last year.

I donate directly to St. Jude's and other causes but that's MY choice. I do it because I feel it's my Christian duty and it makes me feel good. You do NOT have a right to reach into my pocket, grab what you think is my "fair share" and tell me you're "allowing [me] to keep a fair amount" (direct words from Obama in his first year -- people should have been playing and replaying that quote for the past 3.5 years). You do NOT have a "right" to every procedure known to the American Trial Lawyers Association or cockamamie holistic/organic/Gaian "treatment" out there. Contrary to the mythology spread by liberals and the agitprop nynco posts as "factual", America still has the best healthcare in the world -- there's a reason the world runs here to get taken care of rather than Norway or Britain or France. Statistics like infant mortality are caused by other sociological factors (a lot of which are accentuated by the liberal "big government" program).

You want to lower the cost and increase access to healthcare and health services? Nationalize legal services so all lawyers are GS-11 through GS-15 workers with grade based on seniority and no outside compensation allowed. Institute "loser pays" rules in tort litigation. Get the FEDERAL government out of funding creating health "services". You'll see the price hikes stop almost immediately and an actual decline in prices as service providers get used to not having to pay for multi-million dollar malpractice insurance, no longer ordering tests just to protect themselves from litigation and no longer having to spend 20% of their time filling out paperwork.

Don't leave out the health care providers themselves. They are mostly corporations and Ocare is actually helping them by forcing the smaller independent guys out of the business. Compound the freeloaders, greedy hospitals, big gov bureaucrats, and monopolized insurance market, what do we get?

My politics are his best chance in life. It is despite the state school and insurance programs that we are able to achieve any step forward. If he is to have a life it will be because I can provide for him and his mother steps up and does the hard work needed everyday.

It is specifically this well-meaning garbage that youwish to force upon me for the good of the herd that will get in the way of hisfuture and my other children as well. "Life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" never referred to healthcare when it was written nordoes it now, it was in reference to opportunity, not outcomes.

Freedom is always preferred, even if it hurts sometimes.

Good luck to you, I wish you the best and hope that you find the world you describe, but please leave mine along.

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Originally Posted by nynco

I am sorry you have an autistic son. I am even more sorry that you can't see how your politics is going to kill him someday. Because he will not have the skills to earn the cash to pay for the special needs that he has. Your autistic son could be the social Darwin victim that others are so wanton to cast into the trash pile. You think that schools that can handle autistic people are cheap. You are already receiving benefits that would be cut if other people that think like this had their way. He is a human like all Americans and the deserve to have healthcare to fulfill the "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" enshrined in the constitution. Because if you don't have your health, you have nothing.

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I agree with some of this.. Not all of it though. I do think we need to take care of our people that can't do it on their own. OUR people, being the key part of that statement.

The help should be highly regulated. And it should only go to those that truely need it.

A free market always leads to monopolies... ever play the game of monopoly to the end. That is libertarian "free market" economics played out for you to learn from.

Tort reform was tried and it has shown to do nothing. It just increased profits for the insurance industry. TX tried it, it did nothing lower costs. Your theory is wrong.

As to Ted Kennedy pay less taxes than you, I am glad you brought that up. Do you know WHY that is? Because Ted earns almost all his money from investing or carried interest payments. The conservatives have created a two tear system of taxes where a working person (anyone who draws a paycheck) pays a higher tax rate than an investor. Income is income, why should a billion dollar earning investor pay less off a taxrate than a Dr? Its one of the main reasons we have a deficit. We cut out over 50% of the income pie by calling it something else.

As to us having the best healthcare in the world. Yeah, if your rich. But for the rest of the 90% of America, we are only one injury away from total oblivion. Hardly a system to be proud of.

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Originally Posted by esaabye

My politics are his best chance in life. It is despite the state school and insurance programs that we are able to achieve any step forward. If he is to have a life it will be because I can provide for him and his mother steps up and does the hard work needed everyday.

It is specifically this well-meaning garbage that youwish to force upon me for the good of the herd that will get in the way of hisfuture and my other children as well. "Life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" never referred to healthcare when it was written nordoes it now, it was in reference to opportunity, not outcomes.

Freedom is always preferred, even if it hurts sometimes.

Good luck to you, I wish you the best and hope that you find the world you describe, but please leave mine along.

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What happens when you and your wife or family die? It could happen tomorrow. Should your son just live on the streets waiting for his social darwin end?

Healthcare, like everything else in life, is finite. Even with the best healthcare available, people die.

IMO, the question is not should we get healthcare, the question is WHO makes the decisions on what healthcare you get. Today, that decision is made by YOU and/or your EMPLOYER when the insurance company and coverage is chosen, followed by YOU when you decide what you can afford to pay above what is paid for by your insurance coverage.

The way I see government provided or regulated healthcare, is we are moving those choices from YOU and YOUR employer to the GOVERNMENT, which means some unelected, bureaucratic agency. The GOV is not better or worse than an INS company. The GOV will answer to the voters as the INS company will answer to the share holders. At least theoretically, I can change INS companies. It seems as if I am stuck with the GOV for at least another two or four years.

WHO makes the decision. I would rather put that choice into someone I can elect. I don't want that choice to be with a corporation who already has my money and will cut me off the second they can. I have no say then. I have a vote when it is the gov. Anything other than that and you have nothing.