Who here believes immigration reform means amnesty?

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Originally Posted by Eggysrun

I was canadian born, got my green card to the US when I was 22 and enlisted into the army when I was 24 which would also help fast track the naturalization process. Deployed to Iraq in December 6th 2007, I was sworn in as a US citizen in Iraq September 1st, 2008. That's my story of how I became a proud american.

Do I support amnesty? hell f**king no! I earned my right to be a US citizen through blood, sweat and tears and so should anyone else trying to do the same.

I wasn't the only. Here's a pic from the ceremony of the 200+ other people getting sworn in that day.

The proudest day of my life.

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You've made your country proud today!

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Originally Posted by Superorb

Deport them all. No exceptions. If you're not a citizen you're loaded onto a bus and shipped back to wherever you came from. If you had kids in the US and you were illegal than your kids are illegal by default. No more of this anchor baby crap. No more wellfare and other benefits for the anchor baby with illegal parents. If you can't afford to live here get a job or GTFO. If you can't keep your legs closed and can't pay the bills then GTFO. Secure the border. Build a fence along the hundreds of miles without one. And man the fence with armed personnel. It's about time we actually start protecting this country instead of fighting wars on foreign lands. Foreign aid to countries that hate us must stop. What's the point? Securing our borders is simple to do, but the clowns in DC don't want to secure the border. The more voters and cheap laborers they get the better. And who pays the price? You guessed it, citizens. And for fuck's sake declare English the national language. Everywhere I go in and around Denver feels like friggin Tijuana. We shouldn't be bending over to please all the illegals, they're here illegally after all. They're turning the US into the smoldering cesspool that is Mexico.

/rant

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9/10

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Originally Posted by roberth

Liked :)

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'MERICA

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Originally Posted by bogie

'MERICA

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:)

I prefer the "3rd world shithole" description of mexico. b/c it is the most accurate description and i remember someone on this board getting all butthurt over it.

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Originally Posted by roberth

:)

I prefer the "3rd world shithole" description of mexico. b/c it is the most accurate description and i remember someone on this board getting all butthurt over it.

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[ROFL3] Oh.....and I concur. Also agree 100% with SuperOrb.

Those politicians in Washington didn't enforce our immigration laws before, why should we believe that they would enforce new laws? You have to respect the pattern.

My wife had to follow the immigration laws to become a US citizen and the idea of amnesty really gets her fired up.

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Originally Posted by Eggysrun

I was canadian born, got my green card to the US when I was 22 and enlisted into the army when I was 24 which would also help fast track the naturalization process. Deployed to Iraq in December 6th 2007, I was sworn in as a US citizen in Iraq September 1st, 2008. That's my story of how I became a proud american.

Do I support amnesty? hell f**king no! I earned my right to be a US citizen through blood, sweat and tears and so should anyone else trying to do the same.

I wasn't the only. Here's a pic from the ceremony of the 200+ other people getting sworn in that day.

The proudest day of my life.

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Awesome!
Thank you all for your service and dedication.

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Originally Posted by Superorb

Deport them all. No exceptions. If you're not a citizen you're loaded onto a bus and shipped back to wherever you came from. If you had kids in the US and you were illegal than your kids are illegal by default. No more of this anchor baby crap. No more wellfare and other benefits for the anchor baby with illegal parents. If you can't afford to live here get a job or GTFO. If you can't keep your legs closed and can't pay the bills then GTFO. Secure the border. Build a fence along the hundreds of miles without one. And man the fence with armed personnel. It's about time we actually start protecting this country instead of fighting wars on foreign lands. Foreign aid to countries that hate us must stop. What's the point? Securing our borders is simple to do, but the clowns in DC don't want to secure the border. The more voters and cheap laborers they get the better. And who pays the price? You guessed it, citizens. And for fuck's sake declare English the national language. Everywhere I go in and around Denver feels like friggin Tijuana. We shouldn't be bending over to please all the illegals, they're here illegally after all. They're turning the US into the smoldering cesspool that is Mexico.

/rant

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Amen! I can't stand that 9/10 signs on Colfax just west outside of Downtown are in Spanish, among other things... do you see signs in Moscow written in freaking Portuguese?

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

Amen! I can't stand that 9/10 signs on Colfax just west outside of Downtown are in Spanish, among other things... do you see signs in Moscow written in freaking Portuguese?

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9/10 signs? I've been downtown twice since moving here 2 years ago and both times it was for the Ski expo.

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Originally Posted by Superorb

Deport them all. No exceptions. If you're not a citizen you're loaded onto a bus and shipped back to wherever you came from. If you had kids in the US and you were illegal than your kids are illegal by default. No more of this anchor baby crap. No more wellfare and other benefits for the anchor baby with illegal parents. If you can't afford to live here get a job or GTFO. If you can't keep your legs closed and can't pay the bills then GTFO. Secure the border. Build a fence along the hundreds of miles without one. And man the fence with armed personnel. It's about time we actually start protecting this country instead of fighting wars on foreign lands. Foreign aid to countries that hate us must stop. What's the point? Securing our borders is simple to do, but the clowns in DC don't want to secure the border. The more voters and cheap laborers they get the better. And who pays the price? You guessed it, citizens. And for fuck's sake declare English the national language. Everywhere I go in and around Denver feels like friggin Tijuana. We shouldn't be bending over to please all the illegals, they're here illegally after all. They're turning the US into the smoldering cesspool that is Mexico.

/rant

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Can't fully support this. It's not economically feasible, for one, especially for folks that hate big government. What's it going to take create and staff a new bureaucracy to locate, arrest, detain, feed, house, transport, review the status, and deport 10 million people to various countries that may not take them back. Additionally, who is going to pick our fruit and vegetables if the illegals are gone? I'm not for any path to citizenship that doesn't involve military service, for sure. Are you going to make it illegal to speak a foreign language?

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Originally Posted by Superorb

9/10 signs? I've been downtown twice since moving here 2 years ago and both times it was for the Ski expo.

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Forgive me, I don't understand what you're saying here...

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Originally Posted by Rucker61

Are you going to make it illegal to speak a foreign language?

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The other bleeding heart comments aside- because I'd rather not get into that- I have to address this. Did anyone say that? No. Just that it's very difficult to be a French speaker in Saudi Arabia, yet not illegal, thus here, if you don't speak English, it should be difficult for you to function in America. No one is saying make it illegal, just make it harder for those living here who don't speak the language. You're trying to turn things around... Look at Brazil, they have a big illegal immigration problem with immigrants from Boliva- Brazil speaks Portuguese, Bolivia speaks Spanish. Don't you think it rude to move to a country and refuse to speak the language of that nation? I feel like we've been on this topic before, so before anyone makes the fallacious claim that "we don't strictly speak English in America" I dare you to explain why our laws, our congress, and other forms of business in this nation are done in English... [Poke]

A good friend of mine is original Portuguese. Naturalized citizen. She speaks better English than I do now.

Is more right wing than I too, which is the more challenging accomplishment.

And you should hear her about illegal immigration .... wooo hooo scorch your ears off.

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

Forgive me, I don't understand what you're saying here...

The other bleeding heart comments aside-

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Actually, that's the most interesting part of the discussion. I consider it an interesting thought exercise, and wish I had the time and resources to do a study on what it would take to "deport all of the illegals". Let's put the political and funding as givens, as those arguments aren't that interesting - can we get enough votes in the government to do it, and can we fund the activity? If we assume "yes" and "yes", then the fun begins.

Goal: Deport all illegals.
Basic premise: round them all up and ship them back to where they came from.
Step one: how to identify them? Let's assume 10 million illegal immigrants, just to make the math easy. That means there are around 300 million of us that aren't. Somehow we've got to pick out every 30th person in the US, prove that they are not here legally, then locate them.
Step two: locate and take them into custody. Given that IA's are less likely to be in any database than legals, we're forced to do things more manually. Do we throw a cordon around entire cities, or neighborhoods, then go door to door? Let's say our foolproof ID method works. Then we need enough resources to go get them and arrest them, and bring them to the detention centers.
Step three: We're going to need a lot of detention centers with staffing and resources.
Step four: Shipping them out. Assuming that we get them all, interview them, throw the wrongfully detained legals back, and identify through the language barriers where they came from, then we send the back. According to one report, 56% of illegals in 2006 were from Mexico. Let's say it's 50%, to make the math easier. We need to ship out 5 million people to Mexico. Can't afford to fly them, even in USAF assets, so we use mass transit like buses and cattle cars to take them from the centers in EL Paso, San Diego, Houston, NYC, etc. to the border. Let's say up and down the border we can send 100,000 a week. What happens when Mexico closes their side of the border? Just because we tell them these are Mexican citizens coming home doesn't mean that a) they believe us, so they'll need to do their own screening or b) screw you gringos, we can't feed those people you keep them. Pretty soon there isn't any room in No Man's Land to take any more people. And if they do get through or remain in border camps, they will be victimized by the predators in the group or waiting for them across the border. We'll need to be prepared to address the victimization of thousands of women and children. And that's just for the half that are Mexican. How do we get the other 2 million back to Central America, or back to Asia, Europe and Africa.

I'm a logistician at heart and by training, so that's usually the first way I look at a complex problem. It's not a bleeding heart view, it's a operations professional's view. And it also calls to mind related rates problems from early Algebra classes - as the pipe is emptying the pool at one rate, the pool is getting filled by another pipe at a different rate. That's going to increase the total deportation requirements, unless we find a way to turn off that input flow.

And that's without even considering the political, judicial and financial hurdles. The DEA just had to pay a kid $4M for screwing up an arrest. At a 1% error rate for false arrest and detention, even at $1M a pop that's $100B.

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I have to address this. Did anyone say that? No. Just that it's very difficult to be a French speaker in Saudi Arabia, yet not illegal, thus here, if you don't speak English, it should be difficult for you to function in America. No one is saying make it illegal, just make it harder for those living here who don't speak the language. You're trying to turn things around... Look at Brazil, they have a big illegal immigration problem with immigrants from Boliva- Brazil speaks Portuguese, Bolivia speaks Spanish. Don't you think it rude to move to a country and refuse to speak the language of that nation? I feel like we've been on this topic before, so before anyone makes the fallacious claim that "we don't strictly speak English in America" I dare you to explain why our laws, our congress, and other forms of business in this nation are done in English... [Poke]

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Agree with all of that. Given the position of English in our country, why ask for a national language? What would change? Would it be illegal to offer forms and tests in any language other than English, either by a private business or by a government at any level? I have no idea what the OP wants in a national language, or what restrictions would occur.

If you're talking about making English the national language, that might be interesting in a state like New Mexico whose constitution is in English and Spanish. They have a heritage of supporting both languages.

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

Forgive me, I don't understand what you're saying here...

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Someone had mentioned a 9/10 sign and I have no idea what that is.

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Originally Posted by Superorb

Someone had mentioned a 9/10 sign and I have no idea what that is.

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9 signs, out of 10 signs, on W. Colfax just outside of Downtown, are in Spanish... Maybe Google Maps street view can help with this. I just find it disturbing that we as a nation just let this happen without any protest or second thought. I guess I'll just go buy a billboard and put up an advertisement in Russian or Dutch, see if anyone notices or cares. [cigar]

^^ Ahh, gotcha. Yes, I agree. Almost EVERY other country in the world has a declared national language, why couldn't we do the same?

All tests have to be printed in two languages, we have to have different classrooms that speak spanish, road signs in two languages, posters in government buildings, it is costing the taxpayer billions and just getting worse. The only sign we need in spanish is the one pointing to the best road back to the border.

Rucker61,
Yes, it would be a logistical nightmare to deport all illegals according to the plan you have laid out - due to the number of illegals involved. However, if the number were reduced, I believe it would be feasible.

To reduce the number of illegals needing forced deportation, why not employ plans that increase "self-deportation?"
We can do this by decreasing the jobs available to illegals by actually prosecuting employers of illegals.
We can cut off welfare benefits to illegals.
We can cut off public services to illegals.

If we make it hard to be an illegal alien in this country, most will go home/elsewhere.
Those that remain can then be rounded up and deported.
Rounding them up is simple, just have an "Illegal Alien Civil Rights" rally, and 90% will show up wherever you like.

BTW: This will never happen.

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Originally Posted by davsel

Rucker61,
Yes, it would be a logistical nightmare to deport all illegals according to the plan you have laid out - due to the number of illegals involved. However, if the number were reduced, I believe it would be feasible.

To reduce the number of illegals needing forced deportation, why not employ plans that increase "self-deportation?"
We can do this by decreasing the jobs available to illegals by actually prosecuting employers of illegals.
We can cut off welfare benefits to illegals.
We can cut off public services to illegals.

If we make it hard to be an illegal alien in this country, most will go home/elsewhere.
Those that remain can then be rounded up and deported.
Rounding them up is simple, just have an "Illegal Alien Civil Rights" rally, and 90% will show up wherever you like.

BTW: This will never happen.

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You took the words off my keyboard. I was going to say this earlier but work got in the way.

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Originally Posted by davsel

Rucker61,
Yes, it would be a logistical nightmare to deport all illegals according to the plan you have laid out - due to the number of illegals involved. However, if the number were reduced, I believe it would be feasible.

To reduce the number of illegals needing forced deportation, why not employ plans that increase "self-deportation?"
We can do this by decreasing the jobs available to illegals by actually prosecuting employers of illegals.
We can cut off welfare benefits to illegals.
We can cut off public services to illegals.

If we make it hard to be an illegal alien in this country, most will go home/elsewhere.
Those that remain can then be rounded up and deported.
Rounding them up is simple, just have an "Illegal Alien Civil Rights" rally, and 90% will show up wherever you like.

BTW: This will never happen.

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We can all dream though. We dont have to give them a ride back but we could at least try not to make it easy for them to be here.

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Originally Posted by dirtrulz

The only sign we need in spanish is the one pointing to the best road back to the border.

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Ding! Ding! Ding! You win! That's awesome! [Beer]

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Originally Posted by dirtrulz

All tests have to be printed in two languages, we have to have different classrooms that speak spanish, road signs in two languages, posters in government buildings, it is costing the taxpayer billions and just getting worse. The only sign we need in spanish is the one pointing to the best road back to the border.

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It has taken my wife 3 years to get a job here since she doesn't speak Spanish. Most positions in Denver schools all require Spanish speaking teachers. She's from Spain, but she speaks no Spanish and has no accent. If all the kids spoke English she'd have gotten hired 3 years ago. I hate all the Spanish-only classes, not to mention the 3-week long summer school whose ONLY purpose is to help Spanish kids that don't speak English. We are spending an exorbitant amount of money catering to these bastards.

It would be one thing if they helped support the system. They will tell you they pay taxes, but then they cheat the system by paying in 5000 but then claiming a ton of kids and getting 9000 back so they are actually making more money off the system. I have actually heard there are people at my work who "share" children to get more of a return. I dont think a person should be able to get more back than they payed in, My tax money shouldnt go to them because they cant keep their legs closed or use birth control. That goes for citizens too. More than a week a month of my salary goes to a government entity of some sort, and they just want more and more. What do we get out of the system, by the time I retire in 20 years or so social security will be gone and bankrupt, and all the money I paid in will be gone. Healthcare will be nonexistent and bankrupt thanks to obamacare. If things keep going the way they are the government will default on its loans and we will be run by china, germany and whoever else we borrowed money from. Sometimes it is just hard to be positive about where things are going.