Sounds like March 14th, which is "Steak and a BJ Day" as a counter to Valentine's Day.Quote:
Originally Posted by MOLON LABE
Of course, if you marry right, every day is Steak and a BJ Day.
Printable View
Sounds like March 14th, which is "Steak and a BJ Day" as a counter to Valentine's Day.Quote:
Originally Posted by MOLON LABE
Of course, if you marry right, every day is Steak and a BJ Day.
Gay marriage, right? [ROFL1]Quote:
Originally Posted by OctopusHighball
NTTAWTT....
Quote:
Originally Posted by OctopusHighball
Unless they surprise you with pork;)
That sounds like an issue between the employer and the employee... not the business of the government to regulate. But I dunno, I've never worked a job where everyone isn't paid equally based on gender- if there is a difference in pay it's usually due to factors like experience, time in position, quality of work, attendance, sick time used, education, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
That's what I always assumed, until I started discussing rates with females that were hired at the same time, or before me, had equal/better qualifications, and definitely performed better than I did. I wasn't a great employee back then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin13
Also, I very much doubt you knew what everyone else was paid (I knew a few, but not most), so it'd sure be easy for you to assume that everyone was paid equally. That's pretty much the whole entire issue women are trying to raise. Men don't know and don't care so they just assume women are being "needy" or "whining."
People don't want equal pay for equal work, because that would mean their pay would fluctuate from a baseline up and down -- how that gets measured is arguable. Sheer numbers or complicated = less numbers acceptable for equal credit?
KPI's are crappy in my opinion; they're the product of MBA's and other Managerial types who wouldn't know a doohickey from a doodad half the time. I've seen the work people put out when they are going for quantity and not quality -- but muh KPI's! On my old team (virtual), our sister team elsewhere had "rockstars" in the manager's eyes. Their work was utter crap -- it's still crap after I surpassed them in technical terms and moved up (I have to deal with their tickets they kick on). On my old team, I was consistently in the top 10 across the entire team (only one in that bracket from COS) and my work was good. It was how I got into this current position without an interview -- current guys I now work with loved getting my tickets, and they rarely got them because I was doing tier 2 and sometimes tier 3 solutions at a tier 1 position. I'm now in a tier 2 and constantly finding ways to not kick things to tier 3. I tried yesterday, and tier 3 sent it back and said they couldn't do anything and the customer would just have to live with it (I'd already done everything they would do without violating DISA STIGS).
I'm the 2nd highest paid person on my team in COS, the highest paid being a former USAF Network Engineer/Computer tech who has like 9 years experience in our position; his work output is 1/3 of mine on average -- are his tickets harder? I dunno, I only see the numbers. I'm the only one with a degree (Associates) -- does that make me better? Probably not, since degrees are largely worthless except for getting better pay. I'm the most productive on the COS team last I knew, though that could change if I get some hard ones and someone else gets a slew of easy ones. Our counterparts elsewhere get paid 5-10k more a year than we do, often do less work, and their cost of living is lower -- should I bitch? In a liberal world, yes. However, I agreed to do this job for X pay and I'm sticking to that. Between salar+med retirement from the Army/VA, I still make more than our folks elsewhere.
On my first team in the IT field, we had two women. Both were paid like $7/hr more than I was and they were not good at all. They simply had time in the job. We have two women on our team I'm on now. One is new, so it's hard to say if she will be worth it. The other is not worth it -- 1 good tech was let go because of her and while I cannot prove it, I'm convinced she lied to get him fired. I don't miss him because I liked him (I didn't). I miss him because he did the work of 2 of her. I can think of 1 or 2 guys who aren't worth it either -- low work output and they complain about workload.
Generally, when I've worked with women, they're either lackluster or horrible. Every once in a while a real gem is a coworker, but it's rare.
Not sure why, but it might be because of a numbers game -- more men work in this field than women. However, the rockstar women on other teams are definitely rockstar. There's one who, if I could just sit and listen to her talk about all the things she's forgotten, I would learn more than I ever learned in a class or from a book.
Women I've worked with usually get by in an average manner of quality by simply asking for the answer. The guys do a lot of their "heavy lifting" and they just regurgitate the answer as given. This is fine for a person new to a team and still learning the team and its tasks -- especially since our documentation is awful. After 3 months it becomes unacceptable. 6 months or a year is atrocious. One woman on my old team was not that technically good, but it was a totally customer facing position and she had the gift of gab. She knows everyone in the building. I treat her well because she has a gift with people and she's old enough to be my mother. She serves a purpose people like myself could not. I don't care about your day, I don't care about your puppy's picture on your desktop and I certainly am not going to spend anytime making you feel good about the fact you did the dumb. She does all that. Teams, even technical teams, need someone like her.
Point of all this is that no one gets paid equally except in certain situations, like the military -- and even that is not equal because time in rank/service, marital status, etc. has an effect.
Equal pay for equal work is a fantasy. No one works equally. Some get "underpaid" and some get massively overpaid. At the end of the day, if a person agrees to do X job for X pay, that's it. End of story. Anything else is simply an inroad for liberalism.
Matthew 20, Douay-Rheims BibleQuote:
[1] The kingdom of heaven is like to an householder, who went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard. [2] And having agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard. [3] And going out about the third hour, he saw others standing in the market place idle. [4] And he said to them: Go you also into my vineyard, and I will give you what shall be just. [5] And they went their way. And again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did in like manner.
[6] But about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing, and he saith to them: Why stand you here all the day idle? [7] They say to him: Because no man hath hired us. He saith to them: Go you also into my vineyard. [8] And when evening was come, the lord of the vineyard saith to his steward: Call the labourers and pay them their hire, beginning from the last even to the first. [9] When therefore they were come, that came about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. [10] But when the first also came, they thought that they should receive more: and they also received every man a penny.
[11] And receiving it they murmured against the master of the house, [12] Saying: These last have worked but one hour, and thou hast made them equal to us, that have borne the burden of the day and the heats. [13] But he answering said to one of them: Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst thou not agree with me for a penny? [14] Take what is thine, and go thy way: I will also give to this last even as to thee. [15] Or, is it not lawful for me to do what I will? is thy eye evil, because I am good?
True- I don't know what most make among those I work with. And the women I work with (granted we work for the government) don't complain about being paid less than their male counterparts because everyone started at the same pay rate, once you get your first evaluation that's where the divergence comes in. Other jobs, it was a sort of "None of my business" thing. Again, what people are paid (not sure if you can do pre-employment research on pay) is between them and their employer. The gubment has no business telling a business what someone's work is worth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
That's always the crux. I'll tell you though, if you just assume that people are making up a discrepancy, it's more likely that you're just uninformed. I'm not saying that to be rude. It might not be common, but it certainly exists in our work places. I can't really add that much more to the conversation though because I neither employ anyone, nor feel that I'm discriminated against.
I don't discuss what I make with anyone but my employer and my wife. I've found that discussing wages with co-workers does nothing but get you or the other person wound-up. Whatever my co-workers make was negotiated between them and my employer. It's none of my business. What I make is none of their business.
This makes everything better for everyone. The employers sure appreciate it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gman
For my services, the Govt pays my employer 4 times what my employer pays me.
The woman I share an office with makes 1/3 more than I do for the same position. However, she's been with the company for 30 years and I have 4 years.
These facts were unknown to me when I accepted the position.
As Cav posted, I get paid exactly what I was told I would be paid when I took the job - plus annual raises.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gman
Agree. The ones who push it at work, are the ones you try avoiding. As they seem to be the ones always stirring shit up Because they are not appreciated by the manager.
Fascinating: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...rker-week.html
btw, that chick is cute -- why would anyone be rude to her!? I'll have to send this to my sis-in-law. She's an IT recruiter who works a lot with Indians. I wonder if she has experienced this.
Perhaps she should include her photo in her signature line.Quote:
Originally Posted by CavSct1983
I receive job notices almost daily. I usually delete the ones that are written poorly - often by a recruiter who's first language is not English. If I'm not busy, I sometimes reply with a poorly written response. It amuses me.
I respond favorably to the ones that are written well, no matter the gender or name origin of the recruiter.
A female coworker and friend has experienced blatant dismissive and rude behaviour, mostly from off-shore males, in several accounts. So much so in one very large, top tier financial services provider, that she now refuses any project assignments for that client.Quote:
Originally Posted by CavSct1983
While she does have a bit of a chip on her shoulder and can be less than tactful at times with both clients and coworkers, she is far superior technically to most of her peer coworkers. I think some of the attitude comes from her past treatment and she tends to be very rigid to the point of it coming across as "coldness" or even dismissiveness on her part as well. I believe the whole experience bubble she has endured has made her somewhat jaded and bitter and it can sometimes show through.
I think more than anything, the pay difference can be attributed to differences in assertiveness between employees.... Their individual level of assertiveness, and willingness to ask for or negotiate wages when they started, has a tremendous impact over time.
I think you may be on to something....Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawin
http://www.theonion.com/article/man-...eminist-m-2338Quote:
WASHINGTON—After decades spent battling gender discrimination and inequality in the workplace, the feminist movement underwent a high-level shake-up last month, when 53-year-old management consultant Peter "Buck" McGowan took over as new chief of the worldwide initiative for women's rights.
McGowan, who now oversees the group's day-to-day operations, said he "couldn't be happier" to bring his ambition, experience, and no-nonsense attitude to his new role as the nation's top feminist.
"All the feminist movement needed to do was bring on someone who had the balls to do something about this glass ceiling business," said McGowan, who quickly closed the 23.5 percent gender wage gap by "making a few calls to the big boys upstairs." "In the world of gender identity and empowered female sexuality, it's all about who you know."
...
"You can't waste time pussyfooting around with protests and getting all emotional about a bunch of irrelevant details," McGowan said. "If you want to enjoy equal rights, you have to have a real man-to-man chat with the people in charge until you can hammer out some more equitable custody laws."
"And don't get me started on how disorganized and scatterbrained their old fundraising methods were," McGowan added. "Let's just say the movement never really had a head for numbers."
Well said!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gman
This says it all. If you didn't like the pay when you were offered the job, why did you take the job? Who cares what others make, prove to the boss you deserve a raise.Quote:
Originally Posted by davsel
This is just a way to further the socialist agenda. I am frankly shocked that any women actually feel that they still aren't being treated fairly in the work place. Many of you have brought up great points explaining how complicated pay rates are based on the many factors that affect them. The government would only make a mess of things trying to regulate it. If you don't like the way you are treated or payed, get a better job, or make yourself worth the pay you want. What is there to protest about?
Absolutely true, and for everyone. I finally found a job I liked and was good at, but I didn't like the pay. So I got another one.
This is difficult for me, I have never had a job were pay was handled like this. All my jobs were based on position and seniority. The only one that had any wiggle room was a teacher, but that was only because the Principal fought to get us the most money he could (school vs other schools). Other than that I have never seen this, as a course of my jobs. As a Firefighter it was all rank, years, and special things (HazMat, etc.). As a contractor I make what I make based on effort and quality of work.
Personally, all things being equal (time, skills, performance, etc.) everyone should receive the same pay. However, as others have said, it is like eBay. The value of something is the value of something. If your soon to be employer offers you $40,000 but you think you are worth $50,000 you may keep looking. You may find you are not actually worth $50,000 because you have not found someone willing to pay that. Value fluctuates for many reasons and what one person was hired at, may not be the same a year from now.
Attachment 69605
This is really the issue, right? I hope we see more women dropping out of "feminism" since what is happening with it isn't actually good for women or men.
It's horrible for women. Everything feminists are bitching about now is an artifact of women have more freedom/choice than men.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonsey
More women in college
More women pursuing soft majors vs STEM
Women working shorter days
Women spending less aggregate time in the workforce
Women retiring before men
Women living longer than men
No fault divorce so women can violate their commitments at any time and for any reason
Men getting drafted
Men pay more in taxes
Men getting reamed in court on spousal support/child support
Men unable to opt out of parenthood post-conception
Men having less access to healthcare while costs are equalized
Fewer social "safety nets" for men, even single fathers in need
I'm all for equality! Let's make everything perfectly equal. Do feminists have idea what that would mean?
"I'm all for equality! Let's make everything perfectly equal. Do feminists have idea what that would mean?"
That would totally suck for women Skip, tell you the truth. You are right about all of this. We need to turn it around a bit. The battle of the sexes has gotten way out of hand.
Just because a few people out there believe we should be antagonistic toward one another because we are different from one another doesn't mean they are right or that we should believe them. I would hate living in a world full of people like me. I would hate to live in a world without people who are different. Because we are different, we can do more than if we were the same. If you are doing your thing, and I am doing my thing, lets see how we can make what we are doing better. It seems to be so much more productive than me focusing on how you being different from me makes me feel bad about myself.
Be safe.